1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Gedemon's Civilization, development thread

Discussion in 'Gedemon's Civilization, a total overhaul project' started by Gedemon, May 7, 2017.

  1. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Small update on gitHub
    Code:
    - bug fix: check correctly if a city is under threat (the "Recruitment Centre" should not be always available)
    - bug fix: only take the required equipment in a city for a drafted unit, not all equipment
     
  2. SimonB1er

    SimonB1er Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    185
    Is this mod in the workshop?

    Do we play this on your giant earth map 60 civs mod?
     
  3. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Not on the workshop yet.

    ATM you can play it with any civs and any map, but the civs are stripped of all uniques.

    YnAMP will be required when some features (related to region for example) will be introduced, but not at this point (but yeah, you can use the 60+ civs / Giant Earth with this, just remember that this mod is in a preview state)
     
  4. SimonB1er

    SimonB1er Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    185
    Thanks!
     
  5. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    New update on gitHub, introducing temporary drafting
    Code:
    - bug fix: remove the (counted as military) personnel requirement to civilian units (Builder, Settler)
    - drafted units are now temporary units, after 6 turns they'll start slowly disbanding (if you're not at war), sending back personnel then resource/equipment to their home city
    - add FontIcons for AntiPersonnel, AntiPersonnelArmor, IgnorPersonnelArmor and PersonnelArmor values on the units flag
    - bug fix : remove employment value for some vanilla buildings
    - tweak the base % of your population allowed in the army
    Spoiler Temporary unit :
    Clipboard-1.jpg Clipboard-4.jpg


    Spoiler New FontIcons on the units flags tooltip :
    Clipboard-5.jpg


    Clipboard-6.jpg

    35 is the "AntiPersonnel" value (higher means more killed / less wounded / less captured of the opponent's personnel casualties)

    14 is the "PersonnelArmor" value (higher means less killed / less captured / more wounded from your personnel casualties)

    0 is the "AntiPersonnelArmor" value (how much damage is done to the opponent's equipment with PersonnelArmor value)

    4 is the "IgnorePersonnelArmor" value (how much damage you can inflict through an opponent armor, without destroying the armor itself)
     
  6. washy

    washy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    38
    I been playing with it and its great, I think that multiplying the resourses for the number of cityzen is too much, yo never feel the resources are ending, having 2 or 3 bonus in the capital is enough for the whole empire. I didn´t have mayor problems, only the desynch of some units, but its fixed the next turn, one complete freeze, but maybe it was my pc i don´t know, i restart the game and it continue with no problems
     
  7. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Yes, thanks for the feedback, that's also my feelings, I'm going to tune down the number of produced resources, and raise the number of required resources in next update.
     
  8. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Balance and bug fixing update on gitHub:
    Code:
    - Balance: tweak all production values, add two GlobalParameters (CITY_REQUIRED_RESOURCE_BASE_FACTOR and CITY_PRODUCED_RESOURCE_BASE_FACTOR) for a global effect
    - Balance: building stocks can be relative to city size or fixed
    - Balance: tweak down the max number of a specific resources on a plot
    - Balance: the percentage of drafted population is now based on the personnel in "active duty", which means all personnel in your units and only the personnel in cities required to provide the logistic support to those units, but not the personnel in cities who are not currently needed for logistic support
    - Add policies effect on max Army Size and Drafted units active turns
    - Add eras effect on max army size (different values for peace/war)
    - Add Barracks effect on number of drafted units when building the Recruitment Centre (2 for City Barracks, 4 for Encampment Barracks)
    - Tweak plot ownership over water: the owner must own all lands plot adjacent to the water plot
    - Bug fix: do not destroy Settler/Builder units captured by Barbarian
    - Update Policies and Buildings description for the new features related to drafting units and Army Size
    There are still too many desync errors (not in the network/MP meanings, but when the unit's components are not coherent with the unit's type or HP), but I've tuned down the display time, because we'll have to do with them until the DLL source is released.

    That said it should be relatively stable for play testing...

    I'm on vacation for two weeks (but still with internet access, I hope !), I'd like you all to do some runs if you can, for some feedback on the new features and because suggestions on balance are welcome, there are still too many (especially food) resources available at start ATM IMO.

    Once you've managed to get a size 4-5 city, drafting may also be too easy, but that was the point (to allow a player/AI to put back quickly an army on the field), so let me know how it plays too.

    TIA
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    heinous_hat and Knasp like this.
  9. mbaratta83

    mbaratta83 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    The drafting mechanic has been interesting in my latest game. I was attacking the enemy capital with three units for a number of turns until suddenly the AI started spamming drafted units, alot of them like six warriors, forcing me to retreat and draft units of my own. The war has bogged down into a bit of a slog match now, but all the enemy's drafted units are warriors while mine are spearmen, so I think I'll eventually gain the upper hand.

    As for the availability of resources, it does seem more balanced now. In the previous iteration of the mod from several months back, I found my cities growing rapidly while the AI cities remained small and stagnant, giving me a decided advantage. Now their's are growing just as quickly as mine, or perhaps mine are simply growing as slowly as theirs now.
     
    Knasp likes this.
  10. Xefjord

    Xefjord Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Messages:
    310
    Gender:
    Male
    I decided to give this mod a try after a long absence, and I seriously think that some kind of guide needs to be created for how to play using this mod, because I really really love the ideas behind it, but find it nearly impossible to play. Not how to "Install" but how to PLAY.

    Essentially every game I try to start ends up going the same way: I settle a city and immediately start losing money. I look at my supply and demand and figure the lack of materials needed to build things (Which I am forced to do) is what is making me lose money, so I always try to build all the things that have the absolute lowest material cost I can find, like the carpenter and masons first. Then depending on my game speed, I am rather quickly forced into producing things that I don't have enough material for, or maybe I do have enough material for it, but the demand for material is higher than supply in that city so my finances start to get exponentially worse. This is especially bad on Online game speed where you will quickly get up to -50 to -100 gold per turn VERY fast. On Standard speed I can just try to save as much as I can and keep it hovering at around -30 to -50 gold per turn.

    I have zero idea how I am really supposed to produce more material. I know that when the city population size increases I seem to have more material, and that making the carpenters and masons gives me more room to store material, but after those are built I am still at a strong material deficit. I don't seem to have any clear avenues to producing more material, and for each new building I am forced to make I end up significantly more in debt than before. Even stuff that SEEMS like it wouldn't put me in debt (Having like 80 material supply per turn, and building something that requires 20 material supply per turn) at best makes my -50 GPT drop to like -40 GPT, at worst it will actually cost me even more without much rhyme or reason behind it.

    The only way I have been found to somewhat stabilize my economy is on standard speed, if I can sell an arm and a leg to make a builder and I am fortunate enough to be surrounded in luxury resources. I can improve some of them and I may eventually reach a solid +1 or +2 gold per turn if I am lucky and work really hard to avoid building things. On Online game speed it is flat out impossible. I can get temporary relief by building a trader or a spy because they have no production requirements (Which feels like cheating). That will bring my economy up to a small positive like +4-+7 GPT or so, but as soon as the unit is built and I have to build a building again I am forced back into -100 GPT.

    I kind of wish there was an option to just do nothing for that turn so I can give my economy some time to recover, as doing nothing seems like the only way to actually make money. But while I am playing the mod I actually really enjoy it. Having -3000 debt doesn't seem to actually impact me that much so I normally just kind of ignore it. Although outside of normal design complaints, the biggest stopper to my playing is that the game freezes and crashes about 30-50 turns in every game :(

    Maybe I am mostly just playing wrong, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to play right, so I would love to hear how other people play their game? Unless this is some kind of bug, although it has been present in every build I have attempted to play this game on.
     
  11. washy

    washy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    38
    i don´t have time now so i didn´t play the last update, i always create a game with legendary start, but i always start having negative gold when all my units start to upgrade
     
  12. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Yes, some kind of tutorial will be mandatory, and the UI should also provide enough information on the consequences of each action.

    I don't plan to write a "how to play" or make tutorial videos yet, at this point in the development, the mod is still missing some core features that will affect the balance, and any "how to" will be obsolete after the addition of each feature.

    Once the mod reach "alpha" state, when all core features are coded and linked together, then we can start tutorials.

    But I can already provide advices about the beginning of the game with the mod current state.

    You need either forest/jungle (for woods) or stone (the resource or plains/hills), and when founding a city look at the placement of its first citizen on the map.

    If the first worked plot does not provide wood or stones (the plot tooltip should list the resources available on a plot), change it. If there is no wood or stones in the available plots for your first city, you may want to restart the game.

    Depending on the available resource, my first building is either the carpenter (converting wood to material) or stonemason (converting stones to material).

    In some cases I start with a cheap housing to help city growth (as the current version of the mod made it too easy to get food in the early game, but this will be tuned)

    The city size affects the base production of material per turn, and now it also affects the number of wood/stones (and later copper/iron) that can be converted to material each turn.

    If you manage to produce more material than you use, its price will go down.

    Else it will be expensive, and building anything will cost you a lot.

    I may add a project to boost material production for a few turns in a city to help this, and prevent you from being forced to build something that will both cost you and raise the prices at the same time.

    At the beginning of the game, I alway try to place my first cities on the same river or the same coast, as they provide longer automatic trade routes than road (before you can build them...)

    This way your first city once it has growed (and if you managed to start a good material production rate there) will be able to provide your other cities with material (and other resources), keeping the local prices low.

    Tiles on the coast of a sea and the side of a long river are very good positions to place cities.

    Canal cities linking two separate seas are also central hubs for commerce.

    About commerce, external trade routes (automated or using trader units) are a good source of income, and diplomacy is defining the kind of trade (none at war, food only when denounced, food and luxuries when neutral, all except equipment when declared friends, all when allied)

    Every traded resources on an external route will provide a small income based on the resource price (see the thread about resources for more information)

    Your units (and their need in equipment for reinforcement/upgrade) can eat a lot of your treasury.

    If you start building optionnal buildings that provide advanced equipment (war horses, armors,..) then the reinforcement/upgrade cost will raise (melee units with armor, mounted units and naval units have a high production/supply cost)

    there are also two new policies that can be selected to get more gold based on your percentage of upper/middle class population in your cities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
    Knasp and Xefjord like this.
  13. cvb

    cvb Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2017
    Messages:
    446
    I suppose, later you are going to accompany the initial settlers with a (certain) adjacent (rain) forest (or stone source)?!

    Doesn't this finally mean, that nearby grassland/hills/forest/deer and plains/hills/rain forest/banana tiles are going to be the ultimate starting tiles? (You get both sources for material at once and also some 'collaterals')
     
  14. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Yes, the starting positions should be balanced using different values for "fertility" (ie the values defining a good starting position in Assignstartingplot.lua)

    But the easier way will be to add/edit terrain/resources after the map creation around starting positions

    Not a priority as resources placement (stone, iron, copper...) may use a new layer on the map, and not just fixed values per terrain
     
    Knasp and cvb like this.
  15. Decimus1

    Decimus1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    wow this mod looks very interesting! I'll probably install the game today just to try it out. Will give feedback. Keep up the work :thumbsup:
     
  16. Decimus1

    Decimus1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    So I tried it out and it has lots of potential. I enjoyed all the extra details and stuff to keep track of instead of the regular just hitting the end turn.

    I made a post here but after playing another game I realized that its the materiel that makes me go minus 200 gold per turn. So I tried not letting my materiel get low in the stock. For example I started building settler when materiel stock was full and after 2-3 turns I switched to building something that costs less materiel per turn, like a cheap house. Then as the materiel stock went up I continued finishing the settler. This way I managed to not get to 3000 debt really fast

    One thing that bothered me abit was that I was getting the wooden clubs and other weapons waaay too fast, they were almost always at full stock. Would feel more impactful if they were less abundant and something you have to keep an eye on and manage. Same with iron and copper supply, fills up very fast.

    Will definitely try it out some more. Is there anything particular you would like us to test or try out?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  17. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Thanks, and yes another pass is needed to slow down resources/equipment acquisition.

    About specific tests, I'm curious about possible abuses of the drafting mechanism (knowing that lowering the resource numbers will nerf it)
     
  18. Decimus1

    Decimus1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Ive done a couple more games now and Im loving the mod more and more. I did some early wars on deity and this is what I noticed

    Early on the personnel only lets me have about 3 units to fight off the barbarians, which is nice because I cant just spam out units but have to actively increase my personnel. So I did a couple of the early cheap houses and was able to pretty quickly get 5 pop and a little bit later I was at 9 pop. This made me have so much personnel very early and I could basically build as many troops as I want. This also let me abuse the drafting mechanic and I kept making units and wiping out a couple of neighbours. My points here are: The numbers for population and housing might be okay but the numbers for food and growing should be tweaked. I didnt even build the granary and other food buildings and still I was at 9 pop very quickly which made the personnel problem non existent. The drafting mechanism seems okay but when having so much personnel I just kept spamming it.

    The AI seems to get really crippled by the barbs right now. Will try a game without barbarians because there is something wrong with how they work on this mod. I dont know if its because there are no scouts but they keep spawning so many troops I have to make a whole army just to kill one camp. Which is even worse for the AI players

    When having lots of swordsmen and spearmen and only one blacksmith, the weapon production cant keep up when the whole army is healing. That was a very nice thing to see because it forced me to build more blacksmiths. However, very early in the game I still believe we fill up our weapons too fast. My thought is to either tweak the numbers or just reduce them alot and then the player can increase the production with a building.

    Will keep trying it out and just let me know specific stuff you would like more testing
     
  19. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Update on gitHub

    Code:
    - add a City Center project ("Local Taxes") to collect gold in early game (available with Code of Laws)
    - collect resources only on worked or improved plots of a city tiles
    - add employment factor on plots (plots output is no more linked to city size but by the ratio of available employment, based on resources/improvement and average rural population, until migration is implemented)
    This may nerf too much the resource collection (compared to production in cities), but the next step (Population Migration) will buff it again, once implemented, I'll start to balance things a bit more on that side.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  20. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,460
    Location:
    France
    Knasp likes this.

Share This Page