Gedemon's Civilization, development thread

Gedemon · Feb 13, 2021

DemonEmperor said: ↑

Question - is it possible to run a bunch of the more static calculations during the player turn via terminatable coroutines, and have a list of explicit changes from the turn actions applied when you press turn end? By static I mean migration, resource increments, trade routes, population growth, etc.
Click to expand...

I've put some thought into this, my issue is MP synchronization in relation to population.

Human actions can affect population migration values, for example placing an improvement change the push/pull value on a plot, and others like pillaging, capturing cities, working plots by citizen...

I may implement it at some point for trade routes and some other pathfinding mechanism, yes, but first I want to recode the whole supply/route pathfinder then make trade route fixed so they can be cached and not recalculated each turn.

Gedemon · Feb 15, 2021

Teaser

Spoiler :

Gedemon · Feb 17, 2021

So, I didn't stop what I was working on in relation to Barbarians, even if it will be quite similar to Firaxis' Mode, but I've switched to civ-to-unit deals instead of civ-to-tribe deals for the first implementation.

Update on gitHub, which also require the latest YnAMP on my gitHub to allow the reservation of one player slots to manage the Barbarian Truce.
Code:
- add possible Deals with Barbarian Units: Recruit as Mercenaries (for 5 turns), Bribe for Safe Passage (3 turns of truce) or Pay Ransom (free captured Settlers/Builder)
- initial coding of a Diplomacy framework
- bug fix: Wood/Salt vs Meat ratio were inverted for Smoked/Salted Meat production, now you should ba able to store a bit of preserved food
- bug fix: pillaging improvement shouldn't give yields that are unused in the mod
- bug fix: transfer Food Resources from units to city, even if the city doesn't have storage
- bug fix: iterate all Equipment types captured from "Reserve" when killing an unit in melee combat
- balance: gain Resources from "Reserve"/"Camps" when killing an unit in melee combat
- bug fix: visualize Resources looted when pillaging an improved plot
Spoiler Hire Mercenaries :

Spoiler If you have enough gold... :

Spoiler If you don't, hiring wounded unit cost less... :

Spoiler There are a few checks to prevent some possible exploits :

Spoiler And a short Truce after the Hiring duration to prevent being backstabbed at the worst time... :

dkburrows · Feb 22, 2021

EDIT: I'm seeing references to city-states. I don't know why I forgot so soon that Envoys get sent to them. I haven't found any city states yet so I guess they're just not a buildable unit or the game was somehow generated without them.

Original message:
I can see that I have 2 envoys listed at the top of my screen but I can't figure out how to access them or use them. I've tried clicking on other civilization but see no new options or envoy options. I don't see anything buildable that's listed as Envoy. I do see Spy is in the buildable units, but I'm not sure if that co-incided with me acquiring an envoy slot or if that was unlocked by something else.

I'm early stages but I've noticed a few items to be researched don't have descriptions, and some mention benefits of districts, while Barracks and Stables each state that only one can be built, the other has to be in a district. From reading a bit here it seems the districts have been removed/reduced, so I'm wondering if references to districts in Research items is a matter of the descriptions not being revamped or them not being altered just yet to fit your new rules/systems.

The mercenaries are interesting. Will the AI use them too?

Any chance that the AI will learn to attach a military unit to their Settlers? I haven't had to build a single settler and I'm at six cities with two spare settlers.

Gedemon · Feb 22, 2021

There are no CS in the mod, Envoys are placeholder, I've not removed them from the UI yet as I ponder using them for Diplomacy.

Spy are still in, but also a kind of placeholder, some missions are compatible (syphon gold, stole tech), even if the UI is partially broken ATM

Stole tech give some of the tech scrolls/tablet/books in your capital to generate scholars (who generate science points for that tech)

Tech tree past Medieval (and some tech pre medieval) is also a placeholder, some descriptions still not edited yet, and Health and Stability are still not implemented, as well as related buildings and techs effect (started for health, nothing done for needs/control).

For the same reason, most policies don't fit the mod, with special cases (description should refer to mod's mechanisms then)

there are some district still available, Encampment is one of them (also Airport, Spaceport), but comes later, there are smaller versions of stable and barracks available in City Center.

the AI build conscripts, but don't hire mercenaries (or bribe barbarian units) yet, that's planned.

for settlers, you mean it's worse than the base game ?

dkburrows · Mar 10, 2021

Sorry Gedemon, I really should have read more about the mod. I was playing Civ 5 instead of 6 for a long time and saw your mod on a site and made the assumption that it was further along than it is. I love what I'm seeing with it, though.

Acularius · Mar 16, 2021

Not sure where to properly put this but thanks for coming back to work on the mod.

I'll be sure to take it for a spin.

CalebR_300 · Mar 23, 2021

Finally discovered this mod is active again - woo! It's good to have a reason to reinstall Civ 6 after so long.
So, I've been doing a quick test (even though it's only been 119 or so turns), and I like the new features added. Being able to recruit barbarians as mercenaries is handy to turn the tide of battle, although I rarely had the money to pull it off.
Really love the ability to turn outputs off on buildings in order to focus on what you want, or to specialize a city. Same for units, handy to block new weapons so they have a chance to stockpile before you go broke from resupply costs. Quite a bit of micro involved, but that's one of the main reasons I love this mod - all the little details.

A few random ideas/things:

An ability to throttle city production, that is, increase the number of turns to build something in order to better match material output. In fact, I'm not even sure vanilla production c5production is that relevant... maybe turns to produce something should be a function of the material output of a city... but that's probably easier said than done.

Traders don't seem to have a material cost, not sure if this is intended.

It seems very easy to expand borders with very few culture buildings, although that may be tied into the migration system.

Just my thoughts thus far. I'll be sure to post again as I progress. Cheers Gedemon!

Gedemon · Mar 23, 2021

Thanks for the feedback.

In next version, you'll be able to renew a mercenary contract at a lower cost and for more turns, to give you an incentive to keep that unit alive (maybe). I may add a diplomacy penalty with the original owner if the unit dies at some point.

You may ask, why would one want to keep good diplomatic relations with the Barbarians, so a small preview of multiple tribes placement on the map, open to small diplomatic interaction, not just "Barbarians"

Spoiler :

About city production limitation, if materiel is the main factor for production speed, independently from the production yield, there will always be a 100% demand, unless you lack equipment/personnel, and then the materiel cost will never goes down.

(edit: but, yes, maybe use a cap to usage, based on buildings in city or other factors like size/population... edit2: but the AI... )

I do plan to add sliders to the resource tab in cities, so you can set the % of a resource that can be used for production/reinforcement/transfer/export, you could then limit the materiel usage to control its price.

Trader and Spies doesn't require materiel, yes, Traders are still kind of a placeholder until I manage to include trade route management into the city/diplomacy framework. Same for spies/diplomacy.

Culture doesn't affect border at this moment, only population migration, that will of course change at some point, maybe with Stability. But I'd like to wait a bit as I may overhaul the migration mechanism for performance issues (kind of waiting to be 100% sure the source code won't be released after April before working on that huge task)

Which means yes, good news, I do plan to continue development of this mod, unless Humankind is (much) more open as it seems to be for modding.

Bad news, is, as I don't think we'll get the source, as we can't change diplomacy/AI as much as I'd like, and as even with the source that won't be easy, I'll have to neutralize completely the base game diplomacy framework and start coding my own from scratch, including the AI.

In short, no ETA for next update as it may be long.

CalebR_300 · Mar 24, 2021

Thanks for the quick reply!

Interesting... what's the scope in relation to the tribes?
I can't help but speculate:
Will they function sort of like the tribes in 'Old World' (but with more limited diplomatic options)? (Like forming a lasting truce or whatever)...
Do the tribes act as the basis for native culture groups in relation to the migration system?
Will the tribes evolve into civilizations over time? (Kind of like the 'Dawn of Humankind' mod for Civ IV).
If it's any or several of the above, I can see why it would take a long time to mod, and the many changes required to make the diplomacy work correctly.

As for the migration code, I've often thought it's a bit much for every land tile to factor migration every turn... maybe only factoring tribes/improvements/cities/worked tiles and have the system update whenever there is a change in relation to any of those things may speed it up? (Although that may still start lagging in the endgame). As a layman, I still don't properly understand how migration really works, other than that I can build improvements/city buildings to encourage migration in those areas.

As for waiting for the source code, if last year is any indication, I don't feel overly optimistic... but we can hope.

Anyway, don't mind my rambling, I'm just thinking out loud. Cheers again for returning to this project, this mod is honestly the only reason I still play Civ 6 anymore... all the official updates add clutter as far as I'm concerned.

P.S. You might want to list YnAMP as a dependency in the 'install instructions' section of this forum, not sure if everyone is aware of that.

Gedemon · Mar 24, 2021

The initial idea is to have dynamic replacement for CS, "Tribes" will have multiple purpose:

"Reserve" an area for a later spawning Major Civilization for Historical Start Dates, without preventing completely the conquest of the area by another civ pre-spawning

Allow more interaction/diplomacy than the standard Barbarians, Tribes being able to fight against each others for example, provide military assistance, trade resources

Pre-populate the map with Culture Groups (more on that relation with migration below)

There will still be "Barbarians" tribes, linked to a Culture Group in an area, with limited diplomacy allowed for that group (give tribute, recruit units, ask to attack a non barbarian tribe/civ)

I'have now expanded the scope a bit after playing with the map generation, I think I can now design an interesting pre-city Ancient-era gameplay for the player: spawning as a tribe with the goal to gather resources to either expand the initial tribe Settlement into a City or create a Settler unit (to build a city on another position)

you'll have a central tribal village and a skirmisher/melee unit on start

if you have enough food, population will grow

you'll need for example 3500 population and 750 "materiel" resource to create a settler or expand into a city

each turn the central village collect resources from the surrounding tiles

materiel (as in city) would be created each turn in the central village from "wood", "clay", "stone"

food would also be created from the usual resources (like wheat, rice, etc...)

a few other resources would be created (weapons/armors used for mobilization)

the central village would allow a few actions

prioritize weapons or materiel production

create a "satellite village" on a nearby plot (cost population), that village will gather resources on its surrounding tiles

those village would also have a possible action, specializing depending on the nearby resources

farmers : gather wheat/rice/plants at twice the rate, other resources at half the rate

hunters : gather deer/wood at twice the rate, other resources at half the rate

create a "worker unit" (cost population) that will passively gather resource from the tile it's on (as do builders in the current version)

mobilize population into temporary military unit (cost population, getting the population back at the end of mobilization, minus the loss from combat)

abandon the location if there is enough materiel/population in all settlement for a settler unit (remove all villages, create settler and maybe "caravan" units to carry all resources collected)

create a city on the location on one of the villages (keeping the others around, gathering resources for the city) if there is enough population in the village and enough materiel in the central village (costing only the materiel, keeping the total population of the central village in the city)

create a settler and keep the villages (requires additional population in the central village, that will stay there), in that case when the settler create a city, the villages would act as an ally Tribe, but you won't directly control its actions, but you'll keep control of the existing units

you could interact with other discovered tribes to

capture population (conquest, asking for tribute)

capture/trade resources

give tributes (population/resources) to create temporary alliances or truces

Population and ethnicity on a tile determine territory ownership. The way migration work (based on Culture Diffusion from my civ5 mod), it's faster along rivers/routes, slower going through features, desert, snow, rivers, ...

It allowed "natural borders" in the civ5 mod, something I'd like to keep. And it wasn't as slow, I've already done some change in the code to try to make it faster, but as I said, i'm waiting a bit for more work on that.

There are additional element in the mod (push/pull values from plot to plot) that are shown in a crude way in the plot tooltip and will require clarifications.

Note the Migration layers (minimap option) that show the population movement now.

Done for YnAMP, thanks for the notification.

And bonus

Spoiler :

CalebR_300 · Mar 25, 2021

Cheers for the detailed response... that's quite the ambitious goal you have there.

So if I understand right, you start the game as a 'proto-city' (tribal village) that does the usual thing of absorbing surrounding resources, which you can then use to either prioritize material (to establish a settler faster) or weapons (for more military units, which I'd assume you would use to beat the material out of your neighbours).
Once you have a city established, I guess you either have to diplomatically convert or subjugate the surrounding tribes in order to expand (there doesn't seem to be much free space available according to the preview).

I assume the 'satellite village' is a form of improvement built by the early worker?
Would the 'caravan unit' be necessary? I'd imagine you could just attach the resources to the settler... or does that unit not have the means to do so?
Also, what happens to the 'satellite villages' in your borders once the city is established? Do they disappear or convert to an improvement?

Gedemon said: ↑

create a "worker unit" (cost population) that will passively gather resource from the tile it's on (as do builders in the current version)
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware builders could do this... there are many functions in your mod that I have yet to discover despite the time I've played around with it.
Nice preview pic - do the tribes start with roads pre-established, or will they appear logically as time goes on?

Thanks again for the info. (By the way, I don't mean to be annoying with all the questions; if there's a better place to post regarding general discussion of this mod, let me know).

Gedemon · Mar 25, 2021

General questions are fine here, and part of the feedback for what need clarification, as for the builder hidden ability, you'll notice it when re-capturing other civs builders from barbarian after they've spend some turns away from cities, collecting resources on the way. The mechanism make it invisible when they are near a city, as the resources are collected by the unit then send to the city in the same turn, so it show only on the Resource Supply detail of the city panel. I'll have to note to add that to the builder description.

edit: I plan to have "worker" unit also build in cities from prisoners/slaves, as the capture of those will be fully implemented as a part of the tribe mechanism to raise population.

Territory expansion over a Tribe would depend on the diplomatic relation, I'll see how it could work when reaching that point, but the initial idea is to allow ally/neutral fiefdom in your territory (vassal or independent warlord) with a possibility of rebellion. Cities would then share the plots (and the resources on them).

And for already hostile tribes, you would not gain ownership of a tile if there is a hostile village adjacent to it, so yes, diplomacy first then, or conquest.

The satellite villages would be build from an action menu in the central village, not an unit. Technically (much) easier to code for the AI, working on the UI ATM for the human. They'll stay and transfer resources to the city when the central village is converted. I may add the ability for an existing city to build a village on its territory at some point, but that would be additional work, low priority.

As the mechanism is currently designed, a village would initially be more efficient at collecting resource (fixed value, on own plot + surrounding plots) than improvements (efficiency based on population on one plot), but that would be inversed in the late game when population rise on plots.

Settlers can already stock resources since some time (like when moving over a goody hut), and since a recent update, the stock is transferred to the new city on creation.

But Caravan units could act as buffer to keep the resources a city can't stock immediately, as overstocked resources have a decay rate in cities, relative to the overstock value. The need would depend of the quantity of resources village can hold before a settler is created for a "migration" action (ie when abandoning all villages to create the settler).

"organized" tribes currently start with routes, "barbarians" tribes doesn't. Major civ will have routes placed automatically on additional Village creation, building a route (for trade) between center villages of different tribes (or tribe <->city) will be a part of the possible diplomatic actions (and that's why Trader units are placeholders ATM)

CalebR_300 · Mar 26, 2021

Thanks for the clarification!
Been doing some play-testing (turn 206), and I noticed some oddities regarding housing buildings. Sometimes, the displayed production cost doesn't match the actual production cost:

This also explains why material costs are being under-reported (43ish material over 14 turns, but it actually costs 100 material over 6 turns)... I seem to remember mentioning this last year, but not knowing the cause.
Weirdly, this only seems to be occurring in some cities... but I did notice that the cities without the issue had ancient city centres, but the ones with issues had classical city centres... not sure if there is a connection?

Edit: This issue also applies to the market, now I'm wondering if buildings with the upgrade production bonus discounts are affected?

Secondly, all housing of the same class (small/medium/large) costs the exact same production, despite providing different levels of capacity... surely larger houses should cost more? (Although I would probably prefer if they all provided the same capacity for the same price).

And less of an issue, but more of an idea - a warehouse building would be handy for general raw materials. Not vital though, mostly thinking plants for the herbalist ATM.

Edit 2: Somehow inherited all the land around another city.

Not the first time I've border-strangled a city, but the first time for so much to flip so fast.

That's all I've got for the moment. Cheers!

Gedemon · Mar 26, 2021

About production cost, yes, I don't know if I've coded feedback for this in the UI (as it's a mod mechanism):

Spoiler :

Code:

    <BuildingProductionBonus>
       
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MARKET"                    ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_LOWER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1" ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_UPPER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_LOWER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2" ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_UPPER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_LOWER_HOUSING_3"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_MIDDLE_HOUSING_3" ProductionBonus="100" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_CLASSICAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ANCIENT_UPPER_HOUSING_3"     ProductionBonus="100" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MARKET"                        ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_LOWER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_UPPER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_LOWER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MEDIEVAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_UPPER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="150" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MARKET_EXTENSION"                ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_LOWER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_UPPER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_LOWER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_RENAISSANCE" BonusToType="BUILDING_MEDIEVAL_UPPER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_MARKET_EXTENSION"                ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_LOWER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_UPPER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_LOWER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INDUSTRIAL"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_UPPER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MARKET"            ProductionBonus="150" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_FACTORY"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_POWER_PLANT"                    ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_LOWER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_UPPER_HOUSING_1"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_LOWER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_MODERN"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_UPPER_HOUSING_2"     ProductionBonus="200" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MARKET"            ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_FACTORY"                        ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_POWER_PLANT"                    ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ARMS_RACE"     BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="200" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_INDUSTRIAL_MARKET"            ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_FACTORY"                        ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_POWER_PLANT"                    ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_ATOMIC"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="250" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_HYPERMARKET"                    ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_FACTORY"                        ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_POWER_PLANT"                    ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_INFORMATION" BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="300" />
        <!-- -->
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_HYPERMARKET"                    ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_STOCK_EXCHANGE"                ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_BANK"                            ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_WORKSHOP"                        ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_FACTORY"                        ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_POWER_PLANT"                    ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_1"         ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_LOWER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_MIDDLE_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="500" />
        <Row BuildingType="BUILDING_CENTRAL_SQUARE_FUTURE"         BonusToType="BUILDING_ATOMIC_UPPER_HOUSING_2"         ProductionBonus="500" />
   
   
    </BuildingProductionBonus>

Different sizes for Housing are about population control (to prevent health/food/stability issues when relevant), that may be switched to another mechanism at some point

CalebR_300 · Mar 28, 2021

Oh fair enough; that effect is intended.
The problem is, without a throttle to production, constructing these buildings post classical era in a new city gets very material intensive. Even worse in the medieval era... I had a case of needing 720 material/turn for wealthy medieval housing. This tends to cause material costs to increase nationally, thus making all building costs suddenly spike up. It's workable, and I get the intended effect (boost later cities to catch up) but a bit jarring to the player to deal with sudden cost increase.
On a similar note, I also realized that material production per turn has a minimum regardless of production buildings. Production buildings simply boost as necessary to try to reach material capacity. I was nearly going to post a bug report as to why my blacksmith refused to use copper to make material - turns out there wasn't enough material demand (in that city) at the time.
It would still be nice to deliberately overproduce material (to a cap) to keep prices down.
Edit: I've just discovered that cities produce 12 material per citizen without requiring production buildings... I feel like a fool.

When it comes to housing, I usually go for bigger is better. If there are health concerns, I use builders to clean away offending terrain (except for flood plains, can't do much about that). Population control tends to be more a factor of food supply, and the city will tend to self balance in that respect.

Some other odds and ends:

Flat desert tiles produce salt, but require a mine to improve capacity. Currently there is no way to place a mine on flat desert tiles (and hill tiles don't have salt).

After telling me about builders collecting materials as they go, I've been camping builders in forests in lieu of lumber mills... it's surprisingly effective.

Blacksmiths should boost material storage capacity, since it's one of its outputs.

Even though I know it's a temporary feature, bribing barbarians is a great combat tactic... bribe every second barbarian or so, and have them all fight amongst themselves, then mop up whoever is left.

Archer class units have equipment slots for linothorax, leather armour and gambesons, but never equip them. I assume that is yet to be implemented.

That's all my thoughts thus far. Keep up the good work!

Gedemon · Apr 5, 2021 at 4:32 PM

I'm currently working on the settlements UI and actions, it's taking a bit more time than I thought, as usual when I work on the UI...

While I was there, I finally made a breakthrough in implementing the new pathfinder (with path cost) for units supply lines as I wanted it, ie following rivers to the source of supply then allowing a bit of land path to the unit.

Without the river, the supply line would be at max 2 tiles of land plots from a settlement, here it's 6 river plots + 1 land...

... but the supply line stop one land plot further (crossing the river add a penalty to the path cost)

CalebR_300 · Apr 10, 2021 at 6:57 AM

Hey nice. Now sticking to rivers your cities are on is more tactically viable.
Will the river pathing still work if the river goes between mountains? (For example, if you went past the mountains to the east on the same river as the village is on).

On a side note, I was poking through the data folder in the mod and have been doing a bit of tweaking of my own... turns out I could deal with most of the niggles I had with the mod with a few added lines.
Amongst other things, I figured out how to assign armor to archer units, place mines on sand, plantations in forests, tweak terrain output (so tundra is sort of useful), adjust army sizes, tweak outputs/storage/cost of buildings, deal with the 'replace building' discount, and even toyed with the idea of making horses edible ...

Turns out this mod isn't that hard to mod (the xml/sql's at least), but I'm not sure if I should post my tweaked files without permission, because I don't want to create any forks.

Anyway, keep up the progress - I look forward to this pre-ancient era interpretation of civ, looks to be very interesting indeed.

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