GEM generic modification

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

Generic modifcations
This is the thread to discuss any thing related to the generic modification, such as the changes to the units, civilizations, leaderheads and terrains.

GEM Version 5.1
Units
There are no new units added to the game. However, some ability of existing units have been changed. These include:

(Blue: changes in v5.1; Red: changes in v5.0)

Faster armored unit speed:
Unit - cost/strength/move
Tank - 200/28/3
Mech. Infantry - 220/32/4
Mobile Artillery - 220/26/3
Mobile SAM - 240/22/3
Modern Armor - 260/40/4
Gunship - 180/24/4

Faster naval unit speed:
Unit - cost/strength/move
Work boat - 30/0/3
Galley - 50/2/3
Trireme - 50/2/3
Caravel - 60/3/4
Galleon - 80/4/5
Frigate - 90/8/5
Privateer - 80/6/5
Ship of the line - 120/8/4
Ironclad - 100/12/3
Transport - 125/16/6
Destroyer - 200/30/9
Submarine - 150/24/7
Battleship - 300/45/7
Carrier - 280/24/7; cargo space = 4
Stealth Destroyer - 250/30/9
Attack Submarine - 200/30/8
Missile Cruiser - 260/40/8

Generic unit re-balancing:
Unit - cost/strength/move; special ability
Longbowman - 50/5/1; 1 frist strike; +25% city defense; +25% hills defense
Crossbowman - 60/6/1; 1 first strike; +25% vs Melee
Musketman - 80/9/1; +25% vs Melee
Rifleman - 110/14/1; +25% vs Melee; +25% vs Mounted

More powerful unique units:
unit (replace) - cost/strength/move; special ability
Cho-Ko-Nu (Crossbowman) - 60/6/1; +25% vs Melee; 2 first strikes; causes collateral damage
Samurai (Maceman) - 70/9/1;+50% vs Melee; 2 first strikes; starts with Drill I
Beserker (Maceman) - 70/9/1;+50% vs Melee; +10% city attack; starts with Amphibious
Oromo Warrior (Musketman) - 80/9/1; +25% vs Melee
Musketeer (Musketman) - 80/10/2; +25% vs Melee
Janissary (Musketman) - 80/10/1; +25% vs Archery, Mounted, Melee
Redcoat (Rifleman) - 110/15/1; +25% vs Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder
Navy SEAL (Marine) - 160/26/1; +50% att vs Machine Gun, Artillery; 1-2 first strikes; starts with Amphibious and March
Ballista Elephant (War Elephant) - 60/9/1; +50% vs Mounted; doesn't receive defensive bonus; targets Mounted units first in combat outside cities
Numidian Cavalry (Horse Archer) - 50/6/2; +50% att vs Catapult, Trebuchet; +50% vs.. Melee; immune to first strikes; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; can withdraw from combat (20% chance); flank attack against Catapult and Trebuchet; starts with Flanking I
Cataphract (Horse Archer) - 50/8/2; +25% att vs Catapult, Trebuchet; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; flank attack against Catapult and Trebuchet
Keshik (Knight) - 90/12/2; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; 1 first strike, ignores terrain movement cost; can withdraw from combat (20% chance); flank attack against Catapult and Trebuchet
Camel Archer (Knight) - 70/10/2; immune to first strikes; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; can withdraw from combat (15% chance); flank attack against Catapult and Trebuchet
Conquistador (Cuirassier) 100/14/2; +25% vs Melee; immune to first strikes; can withdraw from combat (15% chance); flank attack against Cannon
Cossack (Cavalry) - 100/15/2; +50% att vs Cannon; 50% vs Mounted; doesn't receive defensive bonues; can withdraw from combat (30% chance); flank attack against Cannon
Panzer (Tank) - 200/30/3; +50% vs Armored; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; starts with Blitz
Hwacha (Catapult) - 50/6/1; +50% vs Melee; doesn't receive defensive bonuses; max. 75% damage to enemy, causes collateral damage; immune to collateral damage from Siege Weapons; can bombard city defenses (-8% per turn)
Carrack (Caravel) - 60/3/5; 2 cargo spaces; can explore rival territory
East Indiaman (Galleon) 80/6/5; 4 cargo spaces; can explore rival territory; bombardment ignores Walls and Castles

Terrains/City
There are minor changes:

road movement speed:
Default: 2 -> 3
after Engineering: 3 -> 4

Terrains:
Jungle - Food/Hammer/Coin: -1/0/0 -> 0/0/1
Coast - Food/Hammer/Coin: 1/0/2 -> 1/1/1
Ocean - Food/Hammer/Coin: 1/0/1 -> 1/1/1

Farm:
Corn - Food Yield changes: 2 -> 3
Rice - Food Yield changes: 1 -> 3
Wheat - Food Yield changes: 2 -> 3

Specialist in city:
Merchant - Food Yield changes: 0 -> 1
Great Merchant - Food Yield changes: 1 -> 3

Buildings
Harbor:
+1 commerce on water tiles, +25% commerce from trade routes
Cothon:
+1 commerce on water tiles, +25% commerce from trade routes, +1 trade route

Game speed/World setting
train unit speed (precent of normal):
Marathon: 200 -> 150
Epic: 150 -> 125
Normal: 100
Quick: 67

World Size: Giant (Added)
DefaultPlayers:36
UnitNameModifier:0
TargetNumCities:8
NumFreeBuildingBonuses:10
BuildingClassPrereqModifier:125
MaxConscriptModifier:100
WarWearinessModifier:-75
GridWidth:50
GridHeight:30
TerrainGrainChange:1
FeatureGrainChange:1
ResearchPercent:300
TradeProfitPercent:20
DistanceMaintenancePercent:120
NumCitiesMaintenancePercent:15
ColonyMaintenancePercent:24
CorporationMaintenancePercent:30
NumCitiesAnarchyPercent:5
AdvancedStartPointsMod:150

Civilizations
Currently, there are no new civilizations added to the game, although there are some pseudo-new civ such as Brazil and Nan Yue, which only uses existing leaderhead, unique units and building.

Leaderheads
Currently, there are no new leaderheads added to the game.

GEM Version 5.0

Spoiler :

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

Message reserved for future information 1

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

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Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

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Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

Message reserved for future information 4

Agent327 · May 28, 2008

I totally approve your changes, exept:

Genghis_Kai said:
More powerful unique units:
unit (replace) - cost/strength/move; special ability
Samurai(Maceman) - 70/10/1; +25% vs Melee; 2 first strikes; starts with Drill I
Beserker(Maceman) - 70/10/1; +25% vs Melee; +10% city attack; starts with Amphibious
Musketeer(Musketman) - 80/10/2

This just seems to make the standard Musketman simply more expensive than a Maceman (and even weaker than the cheaper Samurai). :confused:

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

Yeah, that seems to be a bit of a problem. I have to review it again.

I have been consistently reviewing these changes. Making changes to these values is actually very difficult. As you might aware, I have only increase the armored unit speed from 3 to 4 and leave the mounted unit speed unchange. Reason is that I don't want to be too aggressive in making changes.

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

I think the original Musketman is too weak. How about increase it's strength to 10?

Agent327 · May 28, 2008

Double post.

Agent327 · May 28, 2008

With a Musketman strength of 10 it's still more expensive than the Maceman (who has a bonus vs. melée units). If it costs +10, it should have at least +1 strength above the Maceman - otherwise, why build them? (I'm not sure why Macemen should have strength 10: that's +4 to standard Longbowmen/Crossbowmen, and it equals the Knight strength - who should have a bonus for being mounted warriors. The original 8 strength is well thought out and balanced; basically, if you change 1 standard unit strength, thw whole system should adapt accordingly. The only inbalance in the original strength system is the Byzantine Catphract's 12 - which, again, equals standard Cuirassiers - a Gunpowder unit - and, IMO, unbalances the strength system; they should have strength 10, as Knights, which they actually historically precede - Cataphracts were developed before Knights, not after. Any standard scenario with Byzantines in it implicitly gives them an advantage.)

Sorry for the long reply. :mischief:

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

I agree with you about Cataphracts; thats why I've changed it to replace Horse Archer, not Knights. Keshik on the other hand is replacing Knights instead of Horse archer.

About the strength of Samurai and Beserker, my intention is to make them more advantageous over other civ. In the original game, the balancing assumed that the game is played on random maps and hence every civ should be equal. In GEM, since the starting locations are pre-determined, some civs are disadvantaged already. These civs include Scandinavia, Mongols and Arabia which deserve to have better special units. Other than these civs, I also want to make Europeans/ Japanese's special units more stronger for them to have a bit more advantage.

So, unless it is obviously too unfair (like the musketman vs Samurai comparison you pointed out), be expected some special units are far more better than others.

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

OK, some changes to the unit abilities.

SadoMacho · May 28, 2008

Early musketman were not that great. In the 1600's armies had a lot of pikeman in there rangs for example. They were also very expencive, so that only kings could have them in there armies and not nobleman, and this lead the way to absolute monachies and the end of feudal armies, and in France to musketiers.

Already nice job BTW, I'm looking forward to you 1940 scenario.

Agent327 · May 28, 2008

@SadoMacho: OK, cool. But in-game there should be some incentive to switch from Melée units to Musketmen; if they're just more expensive, that doesn't work.

@Genghis_Kai: Your replies seemvalid to me; also, the Samurai is a bad example as, contrary to popular depiction, they eventually were used as Musketmen once Gunpowder reached Japan.

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

So what do you guys think of the latest changes on the generic unit re-balancing? In general, I gave +25% vs Melee for Crossbowman (was +50%), Musketman (was 0%) and Rifleman (was 0%), since they all share the same range attack advantage over Melee units. This also allows Samurai (9) to be weaker than Musketman (9 x 1.25 = 11.25).

Genghis_Kai · May 28, 2008

JEELEN said:
@Genghis_Kai: Your replies seemvalid to me; also, the Samurai is a bad example as, contrary to popular depiction, they eventually were used as Musketmen once Gunpowder reached Japan.

Actually, one of the classic in Japan military history, the battle of Okehazama, demostrated the advantage of Musketman over Samurai.

Ace of Spades · Jun 12, 2008

I am somewhat surprised to see these changes, as I did not notice them previously while playing your map (tried the 1500 AD scenario).

Are these changes implamented yet? Or is this a suggestion for future version (5.0) changes?

Best Regards,
Ace

Genghis_Kai · Jun 12, 2008

Yes, the changes are for the future coming version 5.0.

Genghis_Kai · Jun 13, 2008

One final change before releasing - Increased road movement speed. Default from 2 -> 3, after Engineering 3 -> 4. Railroad stay the same.

Marmoteo · Jun 14, 2008

Hi Genghis!

Glad to see there's people making scenarios with your map. I'm glad to see that you're going to fasten up units, specially marine ones. I still think modern ships should get an even more considerable boost on movement, since with the current change they would still take ages to cross the oceans.

I'm having final exams at uni, but will download the new scenarios you've made when I finish. Looking forward for that!

Cheers!

EDIT: Also noticed that from now on coast will produce a shield and jungles will not only stop having a food penalty, but they will produce extra commerce. How come? Wouldn't that give a big advantage to some areas?

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