Can you read my mind?
Just saw the Route Pillage Mod in the suggested mod list and noticed that I forgot to add this one. So you can only do so with air units at the moment. I forgot to implement an equal mission for land units.
General discussion thread
- Thread starter Thomas SG
- Start date
Can you read my mind?
Just saw the Route Pillage Mod in the suggested mod list and noticed that I forgot to add this one. So you can only do so with air units at the moment. I forgot to implement an equal mission for land units.
I played a few turns 4.29C and have a few first comments regading scientists:
- I was shocked to see an AI building the Great Lib in the 2200s (when checking the WB, not finished by then)! Only then did I look at the changes you made within the tech tree.
- Moreover, I saw that you postponed the possibility to build libraries. Well, I do understand why you put it under PP (now there is something worthwhile under PP ). But did you account for the slower tech speed because of not having libs (= no additional research percentage, no scientists you could hire)? Or have I overlooked something? If not, how can I hire scientists (only with the GLib? = one civ having a monopoly and running away in techs)? Even from a realism perspective, it would be good to be ensure that great scientists can be born in the ancient era. Think about Pythagoras and other great scientists from that era. 
- Why am I able to hire scientists with a library (after PP), but not with a university? IMO, if a lib allows me to hire scientists the university should do that to. Probably even more so...
- I am a bit unsure about changing the requirements for the Elite Univ. from univs to libs. I would think that only after you have univs at all you can think of getting an "elite" univ. Perhaps make PP a requirement for Education? Or keep libs as requirements for univs.
- The hover text for monasteries in the tech tree is now just "can construct monasteries", no additional information. Do you intend to make the religions different? Otherwise you could merge the civilopedia entries for monasteries (hindu, budd, jewish...) into one generic entry.
- I was shocked to see an AI building the Great Lib in the 2200s (when checking the WB, not finished by then)! Only then did I look at the changes you made within the tech tree.
- Moreover, I saw that you postponed the possibility to build libraries. Well, I do understand why you put it under PP (now there is something worthwhile under PP
). But did you account for the slower tech speed because of not having libs (= no additional research percentage, no scientists you could hire)? Or have I overlooked something? If not, how can I hire scientists (only with the GLib? = one civ having a monopoly and running away in techs)? Even from a realism perspective, it would be good to be ensure that great scientists can be born in the ancient era. Think about Pythagoras and other great scientists from that era. - Why am I able to hire scientists with a library (after PP), but not with a university? IMO, if a lib allows me to hire scientists the university should do that to. Probably even more so...
- I am a bit unsure about changing the requirements for the Elite Univ. from univs to libs. I would think that only after you have univs at all you can think of getting an "elite" univ. Perhaps make PP a requirement for Education? Or keep libs as requirements for univs.
- The hover text for monasteries in the tech tree is now just "can construct monasteries", no additional information. Do you intend to make the religions different? Otherwise you could merge the civilopedia entries for monasteries (hindu, budd, jewish...) into one generic entry.
You mentioned some good points. And didn't thought about all effects. 
- I'll find a way to introduce scientists in ancient times
- the later bibs seemed to have nearly no negative effect; the test games seemed fine to me; even better in relation to the date (testes with the new AS on!!!)
- I'll change the relation of specialists for bib and university
- I'll check the Elite Univ. again
But I have done nothing to the hover text of monasteries.
Oh, and there is one more change I haven't told you about. You can now hurry under all labor civics for gold.
- I'll find a way to introduce scientists in ancient times
- the later bibs seemed to have nearly no negative effect; the test games seemed fine to me; even better in relation to the date (testes with the new AS on!!!)
- I'll change the relation of specialists for bib and university
- I'll check the Elite Univ. again
But I have done nothing to the hover text of monasteries.
Oh, and there is one more change I haven't told you about. You can now hurry under all labor civics for gold.
Perhaps you could add a "school" with writing (since there were schools and teachers in ancient times) - which allows 1 or 2 scientists and/or increases research output by a certain percentage?
One more thought regarding libs vs. univs. Univs cost 200, libs 90, but libs offer much more than univs (1 doc + 2 scientist slots, not only 25% research). So, I think univs. should give more incentives than libs.
Good idea with the "hurry for gold"-feature!
One more thought regarding libs vs. univs. Univs cost 200, libs 90, but libs offer much more than univs (1 doc + 2 scientist slots, not only 25% research). So, I think univs. should give more incentives than libs.
Good idea with the "hurry for gold"-feature!
Perhaps you could add a "school" with writing (since there were schools and teachers in ancient times) - which allows 1 or 2 scientists and/or increases research output by a certain percentage?
One more thought regarding libs vs. univs. Univs cost 200, libs 90, but libs offer much more than univs (1 doc + 2 scientist slots, not only 25% research). So, I think univs. should give more incentives than libs.
Good idea with the "hurry for gold"-feature!
Same ideas here. But maybe I will decide for a for a scientist from writing and/or math... And yes, bib and university are imbalanced at the moment.
Have you seen it? We are now also at the Modpacks forum. I think it's the right time to go there. 4.29 seems quite stable, has enough potential for the "near" future and Civ V is not very popular in the forum although it's one of the most sold games at the moment.
May I ask you for a good comment and a high rate, please?
: You beat me to the punch. Thanks a lot.
I think it's the right time to go there. 4.29 seems quite stable, has enough potential for the "near" future and Civ V is not very popular in the forum although it's one of the most sold games at the moment. May I ask you for a good comment and a high rate, please?
: You beat me to the punch. Thanks a lot.
Hehe. But I did forget to rate the threat, since I very seldom do that. So, I had to catch up on that - now it's complete.
Actually, definitely a good timing to post it now with so many people being disappointed with Civ5. Btw, with regard to Civ5: your Unit Support makes much more sense IMO than the 1upt...
Or did you mean you will give each civ that researched writing/math a (normal) scientist slot in the city - without the requirement of a building? That could be an idea - like a teacher with no "institutionalised" school.
- I like that, perhaps you could name that scientist a "teacher" (but give him the same features as a scientist)? something like the dynamic civ mod but for specialists, meaning a "dynamic specialist naming mod") -
Though, I do like the school idea, too: It follows the concept of "You have to build something before you get a reward" (= specialist). Moreover, there aren't that many buildings that you can construct in the beginning of the game, meaning that right now the player is pushed in the direction of expansion (= mostly units, meaning fewer strategic choices ).
One more idea: Right now, when I play with dirty improvements enabled, I quickly reach the health cap. What do you think about adding a building in the beginning, such as a "healer's hut" or so, which allows the player to run a doctor? (If possible, though, this "hut" should only be available, if the players chooses "dirty improvements", otherwise the migration system is to easily circumvented). Since, we don't have the library anymore - which enables a doctor - that "hut" could be a substitute...
But I did forget to rate the threat, since I very seldom do that. So, I had to catch up on that - now it's complete. Actually, definitely a good timing to post it now with so many people being disappointed with Civ5. Btw, with regard to Civ5: your Unit Support makes much more sense IMO than the 1upt...
Do you mean you want to give a Great Scientist to whoever techs writing/math first? I don't think that would remedy the problem, since not all players/AI can get them, thus it would still be imbalanced.
Or did you mean you will give each civ that researched writing/math a (normal) scientist slot in the city - without the requirement of a building? That could be an idea - like a teacher with no "institutionalised" school.
- I like that, perhaps you could name that scientist a "teacher" (but give him the same features as a scientist)? something like the dynamic civ mod but for specialists, meaning a "dynamic specialist naming mod")
-Though, I do like the school idea, too: It follows the concept of "You have to build something before you get a reward" (= specialist). Moreover, there aren't that many buildings that you can construct in the beginning of the game, meaning that right now the player is pushed in the direction of expansion (= mostly units, meaning fewer strategic choices
).One more idea: Right now, when I play with dirty improvements enabled, I quickly reach the health cap. What do you think about adding a building in the beginning, such as a "healer's hut" or so, which allows the player to run a doctor? (If possible, though, this "hut" should only be available, if the players chooses "dirty improvements", otherwise the migration system is to easily circumvented). Since, we don't have the library anymore - which enables a doctor - that "hut" could be a substitute...
Played some more yesterday evening. The new Unit Support System is great. It makes the game really challenging, because I have to expand to get a bigger army (or tank my economy because I have to fogbust and units cost more) but when I expand I am in trouble because of revolutions (and I may tank my economy).
Since I play on Immortal that is fine, but I think for Chieftain etc. that is a bit to tough. Do you give a few free units on Chieftain to alleviate the beginning of the game? (Perhaps a decreasing number of free units with increasing difficulty.)
Since I play on Immortal that is fine, but I think for Chieftain etc. that is a bit to tough. Do you give a few free units on Chieftain to alleviate the beginning of the game? (Perhaps a decreasing number of free units with increasing difficulty.)
Me, too.
Changes from last night:
University is now set to 1 scientist, 1 engineer, 1 doctor
Library is now set to 1 scientist
Laboratory requires now industrial park (factory for russia)
Elite University doesn't require Library anymore
Palace requires now only one city
To Do List from last night:
Introduce a "school" with math (+1 scientist, +1 engineer)
Introduce a new tech naturopathy (required for medicine) and a new building "doctor"
So, now I'm sure. YOU CAN READ MY MIND!
Played some more yesterday evening. The new Unit Support System is great. It makes the game really challenging, because I have to expand to get a bigger army (or tank my economy because I have to fogbust and units cost more) but when I expand I am in trouble because of revolutions (and I may tank my economy).
Since I play on Immortal that is fine, but I think for Chieftain etc. that is a bit to tough. Do you give a few free units on Chieftain to alleviate the beginning of the game? (Perhaps a decreasing number of free units with increasing difficulty.)
No need to do so.
The usual free units (= 1 
for free) and the handicap modifier are both working for AS. So the costs are always balanced. If you want to see it just switch the difficulty level with the new buttons D, that's what I have made them for) and have a look at the upkeep.Looks promising! I hope we get an update soon. I would like to hire some early scientists again.Me, too.
Changes from last night:
University is now set to 1 scientist, 1 engineer, 1 doctor
Library is now set to 1 scientist
Laboratory requires now industrial park (factory for russia)
Elite University doesn't require Library anymore
Palace requires now only one city
To Do List from last night:
Introduce a "school" with math (+1 scientist, +1 engineer)
Introduce a new tech naturopathy (required for medicine) and a new building "doctor"
Hm, then I would be your fault.So, now I'm sure. YOU CAN READ MY MIND!
It seems I think too much about CCV, so that I am already starting to get the same thoughts as you. (Unfortunately, I can't mod like you... 
)Whoho!!Good news today. I know now how to solve my ACO problems. And so I can finish Lost Battles.
I am looking forward to that one! It seems I will get in trouble soon - because of balancing RL and CCV... (soooo many new features... and I saw your first few changes to the civics...) Thomas SG, you should also post a link to CCV in the Main Page Announcement Thread to get more attention.
Some (more) impressions regarding 4.29C:
- Immigration is great now! Lots of movement between my cities, always perfectly explainable (unhealthiness, starvation).
- The Great Lib, on the other hand, is waaaay too powerful with its 2 scientists, 1 doc + 25% science. While teching "snail"-like before getting it, my civ became a science "rocket" as soon as I got it. Since I play Lincoln (philo) I immediately (4 turns later) popped a GS and after building an academy with it I became unstoppable. I would recommend to tune it down to what it was under BtS (= 2 scientists).
- Is it right that I can pop a border due to immigration? I think it must have come from a pop moving, because I had nothing(!) else (no trade routes, no monument, nothing).
- Unless you are already planning a stone age tech tree, I would say that the second(!) trade route - I think from wheel? It was way before currency and I didn't have a building that offered an additional trade route - makes the overall tech speed quite a bit(!) faster. Even without trading much (max. two techs) I had more techs at 1 AD then I ever had in BtS with normal trading. It could be due to my slow expansion, but once I had three decent cities and stopped expanding my military I always had enough money (no foreign trade routes at that time). If that is intended then fine, if not I would recommend to give no trade route in the beginning and then the first with wheel. On the other hand, it shows that your Unit Support System doesn't hamper initial expansion/growth (if fogbusting can be kept to a minimum).
- One more thought regarding the changes in the tech tree: If you add the school (or whatever it will be) to math, the player will be heavily incentivized to beeline math (better chopping + aquaeduct + school(!!) and which btw is conveniently one the way to currency). Literature, on the other hand, without the Great Lib is now quite uninteresting unless you have a heavily promoted unit for the heroic epic. Aest now functions almost only as a trading chip, no thinking whether to keep it to avoid that the AI techs Lit. or whether one should continue to music since it'S so close now and the Great Artist would be nice to have. So IMO the Aest-Lit-etc. tech branch looses quite some appeal.
- Immigration is great now!
Lots of movement between my cities, always perfectly explainable (unhealthiness, starvation). - The Great Lib, on the other hand, is waaaay too powerful with its 2 scientists, 1 doc + 25% science. While teching "snail"-like before getting it, my civ became a science "rocket" as soon as I got it. Since I play Lincoln (philo) I immediately (4 turns later) popped a GS and after building an academy with it I became unstoppable. I would recommend to tune it down to what it was under BtS (= 2 scientists).
- Is it right that I can pop a border due to immigration? I think it must have come from a pop moving, because I had nothing(!) else (no trade routes, no monument, nothing).
- Unless you are already planning a stone age tech tree, I would say that the second(!) trade route - I think from wheel? It was way before currency and I didn't have a building that offered an additional trade route - makes the overall tech speed quite a bit(!) faster. Even without trading much (max. two techs) I had more techs at 1 AD then I ever had in BtS with normal trading. It could be due to my slow expansion, but once I had three decent cities and stopped expanding my military I always had enough money (no foreign trade routes at that time). If that is intended then fine, if not I would recommend to give no trade route in the beginning and then the first with wheel. On the other hand, it shows that your Unit Support System doesn't hamper initial expansion/growth (if fogbusting can be kept to a minimum).
- One more thought regarding the changes in the tech tree: If you add the school (or whatever it will be) to math, the player will be heavily incentivized to beeline math (better chopping + aquaeduct + school(!!) and which btw is conveniently one the way to currency). Literature, on the other hand, without the Great Lib is now quite uninteresting unless you have a heavily promoted unit for the heroic epic. Aest now functions almost only as a trading chip, no thinking whether to keep it to avoid that the AI techs Lit. or whether one should continue to music since it'S so close now and the Great Artist would be nice to have. So IMO the Aest-Lit-etc. tech branch looses quite some appeal.
Thomas SG, forget what I said about the trade routes. After 1 AD I had a "soft landing" in my game. There were wars and revolutions almost everywhere, so the tech speed slowed down quite a bit. Around 1000 AD the tech situation didn't differ much from "normal" BtS. So trade routes didn't have such a big impact anymore. Moreover, only very few civs were willing to trade techs which slowed the overall tech speed, as well.
Moreover, with the new unit support system "building gold" is NOT imbalanced anymore. So, that issue is "solved" too.
One more question, though: In the attached save I just got trade routes over ocean even though I don't have astro yet. Is that something from "normal" BtS? It could be, I don't know. I never was in the situation to be able to cross an ocean tile because of expanded culture without astro, but I heard that this is possible. So that could affect trade routes as well (but I don't know if that is the case).
Moreover, with the new unit support system "building gold" is NOT imbalanced anymore. So, that issue is "solved" too.
One more question, though: In the attached save I just got trade routes over ocean even though I don't have astro yet. Is that something from "normal" BtS? It could be, I don't know. I never was in the situation to be able to cross an ocean tile because of expanded culture without astro, but I heard that this is possible. So that could affect trade routes as well (but I don't know if that is the case).
Here is some new stuff for you. But I fear we must rebalance the early age again.
4.29D comes with:
a new ancient tech - Cure
the Route Pillage Mod + modified AI for automated pillage (non-optional)
the Enhanced Culture Conquest Mod (non-optional)
the Events With Images Mod - but the download of BAT 3.0 was down, so no pics included at the moment, just the code
the new Initial City Specialists (with Mysticism, Masonry, Mathemetics, Aesthetics, Alphabet, Pottery, Cure) - but maybe IMBA, school and doctors hut didn't work well
and the long desired LOST BATTLES (part1)!!!
modified Library, University, Laboratory
new 2nd UU for the Byzantine Empire = Dromone
Academy: can turn +1 into Scientist
__________________________________
And yes, my current project is the new civic system. Created Economy and Government at the weekend.
But I fear we must rebalance the early age again. 4.29D comes with:
a new ancient tech - Cure
the Route Pillage Mod + modified AI for automated pillage (non-optional)
the Enhanced Culture Conquest Mod (non-optional)
the Events With Images Mod - but the download of BAT 3.0 was down, so no pics included at the moment, just the code
the new Initial City Specialists (with Mysticism, Masonry, Mathemetics, Aesthetics, Alphabet, Pottery, Cure) - but maybe IMBA, school and doctors hut didn't work well
and the long desired LOST BATTLES (part1)!!!
modified Library, University, Laboratory
new 2nd UU for the Byzantine Empire = Dromone
Academy: can turn +1 into Scientist
__________________________________
And yes, my current project is the new civic system.
Created Economy and Government at the weekend.Good to see how fast things are coming along!
I collected some more ideas/feedback over the weekend - see the bug thread (these are not really bugs, but I thought concrete feedback about a version might better be posted there).
How does Enhanced Culture Conquest work in 4.29D?
I collected some more ideas/feedback over the weekend - see the bug thread (these are not really bugs, but I thought concrete feedback about a version might better be posted there).
How does Enhanced Culture Conquest work in 4.29D?
1.) You are probably already aware of it, but I thought I should just mention it here anyway: it seems that there are new developments (from today) in the RevDCM thread (page 158) regarding attacking/bombarding with catapults.
2.) Oh, and Sephi has finally issued his BtS Speed Mod! It seems the source code is included this time!
3.) The BAT mod is online again - now in version 3.0.1.
2.) Oh, and Sephi has finally issued his BtS Speed Mod! It seems the source code is included this time!
Spoiler :
3.) The BAT mod is online again - now in version 3.0.1.
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