General help with obscure english expressions, thread :)

[Zardnaar]

Thanks Although for "long hand" and "bats at" I will likely need something more specific (I can leave it general, of course, if there is no way to ascertain something specific).
As for the "dotey (= apparently a term of endearment, eg lovable) old pet", at the moment the dog is at some distance and cannot be touched, IMO.

I would take sorry meaning the old dog isn't in the the best of shape due to age.

I could be wrong.

 

[Kyriakos]

It doesn't say "sorry", though Says "dotey". Is "dotey" having another meaning (sorry) other than the "lovable" etc I found?

 

[Zardnaar]

I've heard that term applied to old people as in dotey old bat. Your version would be right though probably.

 

[AdamCrock]

Come to think of it : "blamish" what does that mean ? blame-ish - sort of implies that someone is to be blamed ?

 

[sophie]

Ok, some final stuff about this text:

"But Charlie Redmond? He’s a natural with dogs. He reaches
a long hand for Lorca, takes the paw, shakes it. He bats at the dog with his free, open palm, gently, about the eyes, as
though to mesmerise, just little back-and-forth movements
of the palm, and the animal is at once besotted. "

What does "a long hand" and "bats at" mean?

And lastly: "A dotey old pet, Charlie says. "

Does old acquire some different meaning here (eg just used to show it is liked, without it being actually old)? (at any rate it isn't mentioned up to now if the dog is actually old).

my take:

a long hand: slowly reaches for
he bats at: playfully hits lightly/rubs noncommittally
old: like old yeller; is infirm, but is nevertheless a cherished and essential part of the family. I'm taking "dotey" here to be akin to "doting"

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, ok, one final one (for real this time... :/ )

"A blind man roils in night sweat and clicks his teeth to sell
lottery tickets like a fat, rattling serpent – he’s doing
nothing for the place. "

This is hard to translate, imo, because I suspect the writer wants to allude to the possible cause of "night sweat" being sinister, eg hepatitis b or other (hiv). This would seem to account for the characterization "fat" in the rattling serpent: bloated, so the blind man has signs of that on his body.
Do you think I am reading too much into this? I hate this kind of obscurity in phrases, tbh, makes translating a nightmare and - it's doing nothing for the piece

On a more mundane note/question on the same piece: does "roils in night sweat" just mean that he is bathing in (night) sweat? Or is there also an adjoined meaning of disturbing the (already dunk) atmosphere with his sweat? Meh

"Clicks his teeth" means, I suppose, just literally that he is clicking his teeth (due to being all-around in miserable state and maybe having tremors or whatever).

 

[sophie]

I'm parsing night sweat as alluding to fear/anxiety either over the future, the present, or both.

Based on the next two lines, I'd guess the present. He's doing nothing and knows it, and yet does it anyway. The night sweats come from the internal/subconscious knowledge that he's of no benefit to society.

 

[Kyriakos]

I'm parsing night sweat as alluding to fear/anxiety either over the future, the present, or both.

Based on the next two lines, I'd guess the present. He's doing nothing and knows it, and yet does it anyway. The night sweats come from the internal/subconscious knowledge that he's of no benefit to society.

So it may be only a metaphor for anxiety? But then again why "night" sweat and not just sweat? (cause unlike usual sweat, night sweat at times connotes one is sick, eg with hiv, hepatitis or other)

They are, fwiw, in a terribly miserable place full of runaways and drug addicts. Some port on the southern edge of Andalusia.

 

[Hans66]

Yeah, help me.
But mostly with all of the words since it´s very weird and awkward, quirky? In the way how all of those English MILLIONS of words are supposedly spelled. It´s the UK way and then there´s the US way. It breaks my noodle in half just trying to make this comment not having a lot of spelling errors and i thimk i´m doing quite well so far and PERHAPS i just got the hang of it all so if there´s somebody that needs help with the English language, i´m your guy!
See how i progressed fast from needing help and to become a self proclaimed English teacher but, i cant see so far how to connect to this threads subject since you ALL should really teach me a lesson or two.

But now i feel the need for speed to hook on to the subject at hand.
I can ask this, anybody here fluent in that really old English way of talking? Like from the King James Bible lingo, like; "Hath thee been a wretched kid? Then thou shall be...".
Like that old English. I want to be able to speak like that.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Maybe the Amish?

Dotey sounds like an adjective or adverb from mixing up

dotty (eccentric); and
dotage (old).

Irrespective of the original derivation, such words life may continue
as they are useful and secondarily hybrids between existing words.

 

[Hans66]

Maybe the Amish?

Hmmm
OK, thanks for that input. Tongue in cheek comment?
I won´t rip on probably your atheist view on things and you do the same on my way of viewing it all then and then we can get along or that´s a no deal for you?
The thing with me is, IF i get provoked, it´s one angel and demon situation for me. Just ask the last person who had to accept my sin straight in the face
It´s not small potatoes i correct, i don´t care who talks to me or act up, i just...re-act, mate.
True, really. And my bad.

Was that a TOO long response to your rather smallish one and perhaps i could have kept it to a shorter one?
What do you think?

Gooooood evening and God bless

Edit:

Maybe the Amish?

Dotey sounds like an adjective or adverb from mixing up

dotty (eccentric); and
dotage (old).

Irrespective of the original derivation, such words life may continue
as they are useful and secondarily hybrids between existing words.

WHEELY?
OK
What about if something is recorded in Dolby?
Is it recorded in Dublin then because it´s not in "doubley" i take it.
(A Spinal Tap the movie reference).

 

[EnglishEdward]

Actually now that I think about it, Amish better at old Dutch and old German than old English.

 

[Hans66]

Actually now that I think about it, Amish better at old Dutch and old German than old English.

Ah huh.
Cheers, cool.
Me, i´m just a stoopid Swede. Rather stupid.
Depends on what we compare myself to. You´re probably more....wise.
Really, no sarcasm involved there.

 

[sophie]

So it may be only a metaphor for anxiety? But then again why "night" sweat and not just sweat? (cause unlike usual sweat, night sweat at times connotes one is sick, eg with hiv, hepatitis or other)

They are, fwiw, in a terribly miserable place full of runaways and drug addicts. Some port on the southern edge of Andalusia.

Night sweats are when you sweat while sleeping. It's fairly common in English-language artistic expression to use night-sweats as a metonymy for a larger personal anxiety or hardship. On the first part there's the literal: when you sleep, you dream, and in a Freudian sense your deepest subconscious thoughts come to the fore; your subconscious mind forces you to reflect on your suppressed thoughts and that angst causes you to sweat. In the second (and I think, more prescient level) the metonymy produces a visceral reaction: not even in sleep are you allowed peace. The anxiety is omnipresent and inescapable.

Some examples of this metonymy in song:
NSFW: LOTS OF SWEAR WORDS IN HERE ENTER AT OWN RISK

Spoiler :

Crack money, Nike sweats, wake up in night sweats
Homemade key lime pie we cutting slices
All my people eat at the table when we say our grace
One eye open for the Judas who wanna take my place
Twelve disciples, I got two shooters, nigga ten bodies
Caught a few niggas living thinkin' that I ain't bout it
Dickie shirts, blood stains, come with the drug game
Cell phones tapped, fast money and cum stains
Public defenders say a number and you niggas tremble
Judge dropped the mallet, may as well put a bullet in you

These floods of you are unforgiving
Pushing past me spilling through the banks
And I fall
Faster than light and faster than time
That's how memory works
At least in the dark where I'm searching for meaning
When I'm just searching for something
I want out
Out of every awkward day
Out of every tongue tied loss
I want out
Out of the burdening night sweats
Out of the rising seas of blood
Lost in you like Saturday nights
Searching the streets with bedroom eyes
Just dying to be saved
Run on girl
Run on

And no I don't need another one that can stay up late
And have a ton of fun (take your clothes off)
What's in my drink, it won't let me doze off
In deep rest girl, overdose on Zoloft
And I've been up all night, sweating in my dreams
I try to run away, but you're trapping me
Romance, reacted chemically
Now I climax my own way, ecstasy
I'm rollin' cookie with my gang
The same niggas never change
I'm a rockstar, addicted to the pain
Don't want her butt, I back away
So thick, I do a double take
Don't even know what's going on, in my brain, oh

I want you to make me sick
Love me out my mind
Want it all, want it all
The late night sweat
Heartache 'til you're mine

Wake up in a night sweat
Nicotine to bring me down
Even if I took back everything and left it all behind I'm still in the same place now
Feelin' like a blood let
It's feeling like a bleed out
I've been going drink to drink to line to line I won't slow down I'm thinking fudge the pace now
I'm not saying keep up
I’m not saying slow down
You can do whatever
Just get it out my mind now
Just get me out the know
Keep me in the dark
Catch me in the dark

Your man was such a lame, girl, that’s how I got close to you
You know it’s true, you know it’s true
Please don’t say no names girl, just do what you’re supposed to do
Emotional, emotional girl
You know you got a man girl, he don’t even know you
Been with me the whole night, sweating up the whole room
Just do what I say girl, everything will go smooth
And you know that he’ll be home soon

[ Chorus ]

Vivid dreams, nightsweats
I guess that im stressed
I Feel like life is just a sidequest
And i ain't even meet the boss yet

[ VERSE 1 ]

My ex thinks im a junkie, all she does is judge me
Every fudging party Mixing Extacy with bubbly
My friends want me to detox, they said its getting ugly
I stopped wearing white tees
My cups running muddy

House looks like a Pigs den , messy like the soccer player
Faith growing weary, ive been contemplating other prayers
Religion and paper slaying my basics
I hate green faces, does that make me a racist?

If Money is the root of evil, Then what is change?
Cause i can't see the heavens when everythings the same
Shed a light, dont shed a tear, Tread lightly, dont dissapear
fudge it all , break the crystal ball to make it clear

[ Chorus ]
Vivid dreams, nightsweats
I guess that im stressed
I Feel like life is just a sidequest
And i ain't even meet the boss yet

[ VERSE 2 ]

Build it up break it down, legos
Filling my head up with echoes
Crafting bongs from nestea bottles
Hitting bowls in meadows

Im used to numbing the pain
Induced to pleasure the brain
Moving sideways inside
Till i drift off the lane

I fell in love, survived the fall, try to swim but cannonball
Deep in the abyss, i got a list of flaws that can't evolve
Stick to it, perfect it, hope these kids get the message
Happiness will come, the depression makes it precious

If Money is the root of evil, Then what is change?
Cause i can't see the heavens when everythings the same
Shed a light, dont shed a tear, Tread lightly, dont dissapear
fudge it all , break the crystal ball to make it clear

[ Chorus ]

Vivid dreams, nightsweats
I guess that im stressed
I Feel like life is just a sidequest
And i ain't even meet the boss yet

Another common way in English of phrasing this metonymy is by saying "waking up in a cold sweat," which is basically expressing the same thought.

Examples of this phrasing:
NSFW: MORE BAD WORDS IN HERE GUYS

Spoiler :

Now I was barely seventeen with a pocket full of hope
Screamin' "dollar and a dream" with my closet lookin' broke
And my nigga's lookin' clean, gettin' caught up with that dope
Have you ever served a fiend with a pocket full of soap?
Nigga I can tell you things that you probably shouldn't know
Have you ever heard the screams when the body hit the floor?
Flashbacks to the pain, wakin' up, cold sweats
Six o'clock in the mornin', gotta hit the BowFlex
Get my weight up on the block, keep watch for the cops
God they love to serve a nigga three hots and a cot
Nowadays crime pays like a part time job
And the drought got me prayin' for a Carl Thom vibe
Summer Rain come again
Numb the pain 'cause it's hard for a felon
In my mind I been cryin', know it's wrong but I'm sellin'
Eyes wellin' up with tears
Thinkin' 'bout my niggas dead in the dirt
Immortalized on this shirt

Tell me what you know about dreamin', dreamin'?
You don't really know about nothin', nothin'
Tell me what you know about them night terrors every night
5 AM, cold sweats, waking up to the sky?
Tell me what you know about dreams, dreams?
Tell me what you know about night terrors? Nothing
You don't really care about the trials of tomorrow
Rather lay awake in the bed full of sorrow

Wake up in the world and I'm just another nigga
Call it public housin' when you next door to the killers
On the corners, it gets better as you go
Grind that mothafudga 'til it's yellow brick road
Free as a bird, spoken word in my verse
On my knees prayin', niggas shootin' in the church
Wake up out my sleep in another cold sweat
I lived on Billboard, where the fudge to go next?
Go against the odds, youngin' go and get a job
Another country boy they want back on the farm
So far from my goals but I'm close to my kids
Thug cry for Mac Dre throwin' up the Thizz

I need a friend (I need a friend)
And you need a home (you need a home)
I love when you come (I love when you coming)
I still feel alone
You make it warm in my bed, butterflies in my head
Sunrise, let it set
But you don't love me like you say you do
White lies hold the hidden truth
You keep leaving when I need you most
It's true what they say about
Love had and love lost, here you are and now you're gone
I'm left alone in the same bed, I wake up in a cold sweat

 

[Kyriakos]

Night sweats are when you sweat while sleeping. It's fairly common in English-language artistic expression to use night-sweats as a metonymy for a larger personal anxiety or hardship. On the first part there's the literal: when you sleep, you dream, and in a Freudian sense your deepest subconscious thoughts come to the fore; your subconscious mind forces you to reflect on your suppressed thoughts and that angst causes you to sweat. In the second (and I think, more prescient level) the metonymy produces a visceral reaction: not even in sleep are you allowed peace. The anxiety is omnipresent and inescapable.

Some examples of this metonymy in song:
NSFW: LOTS OF SWEAR WORDS IN HERE ENTER AT OWN RISK

Spoiler :

Another common way in English of phrasing this metonymy is by saying "waking up in a cold sweat," which is basically expressing the same thought.

Examples of this phrasing:
NSFW: MORE BAD WORDS IN HERE GUYS

Spoiler :

I agree, yet it still seems to me that this isn't just the known metaphor. It isn't used for other people feeling fear in the story either. Then there's the rather strange use of "fat" to describe the rattlesnake; it doesn't seem to be serving any purpose if it isn't tied to the object the metaphor is about and bloated flesh there.
Not that this has to be resolved here - I can't resolve it either. Anyway, if I end up getting the contract for this translation then they can always ask the author himself to explain...