General Strategies to survive

[AngelGabriel]

I'm playing Civ4 and FFH now for quite some years but never got really into the game strategy-wise. Even today I sometimes have many problems to create a working economy just to finance research. Especially in FFH I tend to rely on Aristocracy and many farms just to get a +20 income at 100%. If I ever try to use cottages my whole economy breaks down. But that's not the only problem I've got. The AI spams warriors or axemen and just overruns my poor little villages. Even if I produced nothing else than warriors I would never know how to finance them without losing all income.

Things I don't understand include trading. I don't know how it works with my own cities, with different cities (while I mostly never open borders with anyone) or through rivers.
You see: Even though I'm playing for quite some time now I seldom get satisfactory results. Any clues?

Another problem is how to specialize cities. Reading through topics most people say: Don't build everything in one city: specialize them. How? I need some buildings just to survive (such as an infirmary) which needs hammers, which needs people. So I tend to spam farms and mines and almost always forget to build cottages which is why I heavily rely on Aristocracy. Then again: If there are no rivers nearby or mines I can't either build farms (which results in no people) or no mines (no hammers) so production is very slow. Red smileys and the need to work on tiles keep me away from just using specialists. Any specialist keeps me away from working on farms thus preventing me to get new people which could possibly be specialists (it's a vicious circle ).

Help me please.

It seems to be leader depending though: As Flauros I almost always have a problem with hundreds of warriors trying to invade my country, but almost never lack a proper economy (thanks to Aristocracy - which seems to make sense with those vampires). Playing the Sheaim my economy almost always drops dead but I can defend myself thanks to mages/ death magic/ wraiths ... stuff. Though if I ever try to rely on many produced warriors (such as pyre zombies) my economy tends to drop down too.

I'm doing something seriously wrong ....

 

[Bootsiuv]

Things I don't understand include trading. I don't know how it works with my own cities, with different cities (while I mostly never open borders with anyone) or through rivers.
You see: Even though I'm playing for quite some time now I seldom get satisfactory results. Any clues?

Open border agreements encourage trade between civs if I'm not mistaken. The fact that you don't sign them, while understandeable from an intelligence standpoint, is a mistake IMO.

Also, building a road network that connects with your neighbors will also encourage trade. In addition, going for techs which enhance your ability to trade over the sea will also help. Open border agreements also give a diplo bonus after some time.

Remember, open borders allow possible future enemies to scout your terrain, but you're able to do the same. You can always cancel it if you feel an attack is looming or if a neighbor is trying to spread an undesirable religion in your lands.

When playing MP, open borders are a little more dangerous IMO, as a human can build an army better able to take advantage of the few turns before the deal is cancelled/war is declared (by building an army that can use your roads to strike at some of your cities before you realize what's going on). Thus, I would be a little more hesitant to sign such an agreement with another human player.

A little longwinded, but I hope that helps.

 

[AngelGabriel]

So the only negative aspects of Open Border agreements are:

- scouting possibilities (though both ways)
- spreading unwanted religion

... that opens up another question:

I mainly tend to stick to one religion out of plain style. I like the idea of one dominating religion and inquisition of all the other heretics. But is there any need to do that. What can an unwanted religion possibly do to me apart from spreading an icon into my cities?

 

[Bootsiuv]

I'm fairly certain that cities with religions different from your current state religion will suffer from unhappy citizens.

So, for example, if your state religion is RoK, and some of your cities also have OO, there will be some unhappiness in those cities due to religious unrest.

If you have enough happiness providing resources, buildings, etc. then this may not be a problem really, but unhappy citizens won't work, so you should do what you can to avoid any unhappy faces in your cities.

 

[odalrick]

Apart from Ashen Vale and Order, there is no automatic unrest between religions. Even the Ashen Vale versus Order unrest is pretty negligible.

On the contrary, like in base Civ, each religion provides 1 happy face by default and civics can raise that.


And you most emphatically don't need an Infirmary to survive. Why would you think that?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

a +20 income at 100% science? that's actually pretty good. you should probably try to expand more.

 

[Bootsiuv]

I see.

So having RoK and OO in the same city would actually be a good thing?

I just started playing .41d recently, so I'm not hip to all of the changes, but I seem to recall that different religions of any type could cause unrest in .23, although I may be mistaken.

Anyways, thanks for clarifying things.

 

[cabbagemeister]

Yeah, there's not really any significant maluses to having multiple religions.

On the other hand, there's not really benefits to having multiple religions in your cities unless you're running the Religion Civic (gives happy for each religion). Unfortunately Religion is not that great a civic compared to the other options in that category. The only exception here is RoK, which you should spread EVERYWHERE if you can, because it gives extra gold per turn. It can really help your economy.

On the OTHER other hand, many of the temples of various religions ARE worth building, even if you're not running that religion as your state religion. They will all give extra happy if you have the correct resource (Incense, Gems, or Reagents), and they also all have extra bonuses like gold per turn (RoK), culture boosts (OO), military unit production (Order) or science (Empy).

 

[AngelGabriel]

And you most emphatically don't need an Infirmary to survive. Why would you think that?

The health boost is quite helpful, especially in the midgame phase regarding Blight, the Ironsmith building (you know +25% hammer, +1 unhealth), etc.

a +20 income at 100% science? that's actually pretty good. you should probably try to expand more.

Oh ... I thought that's quite bad. In other sessions I only get a +20 if I drop to 70% science. Sometimes less ...

How many cities should I try to get without having to attack any other civ? I play mostly on large maps.

 

[Bootsiuv]

I usually try to find a chokepoint, claim it for my own, and then backfill any unclaimed land....I've secured 3/4 of an entire continent in such a manner. This is especially useful on the Erebus map script, where mountain chokepoints are often plentiful.

Aside from that, mana nodes are often something I will try and claim as many of as is economically feasible.

I would say founding 7-8 cities on a large map (over the course of a century or so) would give you a decent base to start from.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

@angelgabriel: not sure, I haven't played on a large map for a while. 70% is not that bad though, it all depends on playing style. if you are expanding a lot and using a huge army to throw your weight around, you might be running 70% science but you'll be annihilating your 100% science neighbours, that's for sure

without having to change your style too much, 90% while making a small profit looks pretty balanced. try to expand steadily but not too fast, so that you can keep your new cities well protected: it's no use to found them and them lose them to barbarians or aggressive leaders. archers work fine to guard them, get them a couple city garrison promos ( guerrilla is even better if the city is on a hill -> try to build cities on hills! ) and they'll do a fine job. build palisades and walls in cities that are being harassed.

try to adopt a civic that allows rush building with gold ASAP ( I love military state, since warfare is a pretty high priority anyway - caste system is also nice, I just don't remember which tech it comes with. guilds comes later. I still prefer military state for a long time though. ) , and don't be afraid to temporarily drop your commerce slider to 0% to get gold to upgrade troops to higher tiers and rushbuild whatever you need ATM. you don't have to be constantly teching as fast as you can all the time, you also have to use the tools those techs unlocked

aristocracy is fine, remember to run it alongside with agrarianism. if you got a couple plains tiles and many grasslands, it can be nice to build cottages on plains so that you don't suffer the -1 hammer from agrarianism on those tiles. and mine the hills so that you have some good hammers. get sanitation and your farms will give +2F+2C , not bad at all. all that surplus food should also allow you to use a couple specialists if you want to. and the -40% distance modifier will allow you to have a largeish empire without going bankrupt. aside from that, remember to play to your civ's and leader's strengths, and you should do just fine.

 

[odalrick]

The health boost is quite helpful, especially in the midgame phase regarding Blight, the Ironsmith building (you know +25% hammer, +1 unhealth), etc.

Helpful != needed .

I mean there are many things the infirmary provides that are helpful but ultimately unnecessary. The whole idea about specialisation is deferring luxury items.

The infirmary gives +3 which at some point far in the future translates into one more citizen. Why not use those to build axemen and go conquer some health resources instead? The deficient health can be substituted with a farm.

Infirmaries are not worthless by any standard, but far from necessary.

That said, specialization is less worthwhile in FFH than BtS. Buildings are less powerful and more costly, so you need more for less benefit.

 

[AngelGabriel]

Imagine the first time I encountered Blight.
OMFG, WHAT HAPPENED????? ARGH ... HELP HELP HELP ... DESASTER ....

Since that day Infirmaries are a production into much brighter future and thus absolutely necessary. Don't you dare destroying my view of the world

...k, you say I don't need them if you venture forth to conquer the neighbors ... I will keep that in mind. Thanks

 

[AngelGabriel]

So, I tried to use anything I learned in here. I played Sheaim on ErebusContinent, large map, 12 civs. Everything went fine. I managed to get 6 cities which developed quite well (well, to be honest: they were between 6 and 13 population in the end). The first harsh situation was, when 3 nations decided to attack simultaneously - I managed them. The fourth I couldn't manage so I forced Peace through the World Builder (without looking at the map). That gave me the opportunity to fight my 3-border-war without heavy losses - thanks to my planar gates and Rosier the Fallen. I even claimed two Amurite cities in the process and successfully ended war with the 2 other nations. 50 turns later I heard the old war-trumpets. 9 out of 12 nations (+ Basium) decided to attack me within 10 turns. I wasn't able to handle the situation and had to stop playing ...

Yes, I use Death Mana. Yes, I am Evil - is that enough reason for them to throw everything at me (and only me) they have? Rotten bastards ...

 

[Emptiness]

It sounds like the main reason you're being attacked is your size. 6 cities on a large map makes you a tiny nation. Small = small army = AI will attack you. I try to make sure I have at least 12 cities on a standard map before I consider halting my expansion. On a large map I'd try for more cities, maybe 16-18. If you only have 6 cities and someone else summons Basium then things are not going well.

 

[AngelGabriel]

Okay - but how do I build that many settlers, ensure my safety during starting phase and prevent losing that much gold because of the cities?

 

[Andvare]

Trade routes, courthouses and RoK.

Remember, it's not your % research that matters, but the beaker output. bBreaking even with 100 beakers/turn at 10% research is better than breaking even with 50beakers/turn at 100% research.

 

[Senethro]

Trade routes, courthouses and RoK.

Two wrong answers and a 3rd situational one.

If you want an easy game to practice on then pick Flauros of the Calabim. Settle almost all your cities beside Fresh Water and quickly adopt Aristocracy + Agrarian civics (you'll need Code of Laws tech). Build Farms on all Grasslands, where they'll make 3 food and 4 commerce. Next, pick up Sanitation tech for +1 food on farms and a building which raises the happy cap by 3 (essential when you have so much food). Next, pick up Ashen Veil religion and build its temples and adopt the Religion civic.

You should be about Turn 200ish with 5-6 cities, large cities, a lot of tiles worked, a lot of happiness for minimal investment (3 from Public Baths, 4 from Religion/Temple, 4ish from Luxury resources.

At this point you can do whatever you want as you've a strong economic base.

In FFH buildings are so expensive that they're something you get after you have a large production base, not to make a production base. Exceptions can be made, like building an early Library in a city with 3 Gem resources, but if you try to build everything everywhere, you'll die even faster than if you did this in regular Civ. To take an example - don't build Granaries or Smokehouses until you're far past the unhealthiness limit. And even then, only build the one for which you have the most matching resources!

 

[AngelGabriel]

Hm, but I fear to loose against the AI if I don't try to match up building-wise. Without buildings my research doesn't improve, same as hammers in areas where there are no hills to build mines. Even worse an area where there is no fresh water in miles thus building farms is impossible. I really need to rethink my playing style I fear.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I like to build elder councils and markets in every city asap, and then build +% buildings only in cities that really benefit from it. buildings that give a raw bonus like the gambling house I'll also try to build quickly. I'm not too fond of +health and +happiness buildings, until I hit the cap and realize they're really needed.