General Turn Discussion

[Memphus]

not really. it would show us 1 new tile to the NE. but moving NE or E would also reveal that tile.

based on that logic then the best move is E next turn. (this is still not my vote) my vote wasn;t SE either. you can still do what i proposed above by going NE or E

 

[AutomatedTeller]

NE, for me.

Once General_W finishes the farm, I assume he's going to chop? What tile does he chop? Grass tile SW of The Inner Sanctum?

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I still wonder about the validity of the Star Map Theory...a little snooping now could give us insight into whether that is reality or disinformation. I enjoyed the story behind getting the map straight out of Sullla's head...but where did it really come from??

X/2? I think we should come up with the lowest possible value for X and work out a plan from there. In the meantime SE would be good with me. I think we can do this without worrying about over extending ourselves.

Another consideration is maintaining Quick Reaction capability in the event of a barbarian showing up around Inner Sanctum (we're getting close to T20 here). Is there any reason not to maintain a Warrior within IS's field of view? This would require that W1 not venture too far if we anticipate W2 leaving in advance of S1.

EDIT: Reason SE is good for me is that one more successful defense and W1 is promoted anyway (i.e. health bonus upon upgrade). However, considering visibility, E or NE does seem to be a better choice.

 

[Memphus]

any tile....i have run the simulations no advantage to any tile....

 

[Viva_Chingon]

If all tiles are equal then the question is one of goals.

Is this warrior going to be more useful back home or out and about?

EDIT:

Once General_W finishes the farm, I assume he's going to chop? What tile does he chop? Grass tile SW of The Inner Sanctum?

Early on the plan was to chop the plains hill to the S of the wheat. This might have changed but I think it would be good considering we don't have pottery yet to build the cottages but can build a mine on that hill. This would also allow the worker to sweep through and clear forests/build cottages (after we learn pottery) without backtracking to that hill, as I recall.

 

[Karhu]

I still wonder about the validity of the Star Map Theory...a little snooping now could give us insight into whether that is reality or disinformation. I enjoyed the story behind getting the map straight out of Sullla's head...but where did it really come from??

Well the story came from my head and the map came from Sulla's. Let's see if they match!

I wouldn't make decisions at this point relying on the map to be a star. It was just an interesting idea I had that fit the information we had at the time, including our criteria that the map be "balanced". I do think we will continue to find lengthy mountain ranges throughout the map, but the chances of us ending up with a star are (and it pains me to say this) "slim."

 

[Ronnie1]

I vote NE..

 

[General_W]

Yeah - I vote for NE (9) first. Then we'll see what we find.

We really don't want to get caught without a warrior near home if barbs show up.

 

[Memphus]

you exampel above uses all coast. try it again with what the FoW shows. jungle / forest cut down the LoS.

Also here is how the turn works:

if you have ever played the card game magic think of it like that:

1. Team 1 goes
2. Team 2 Goes
3. We go we end turn:
Since all of our actions happen interturn these happen:
1. techs discovered (resources shown)
2. etc added up
3. builds / growth compelted.

4. Team 4 goes
5. Team 5 goes

End of the turn:
barbarians move
the year changes, the turn changes
units are healed
Gloabally all changes are updated

so depending when you look at the save we could be mid turn phase

Team 1 goes again

 

[Viva_Chingon]

I will keep those facts in mind. The terrain (from FoW) should have already been done, my bad.

 

[Ronnie1]

Yeah - I vote for NE (9) first. Then we'll see what we find.

We really don't want to get caught without a warrior near home if barbs show up.

Barbs should not enter our territory until about T45.

 

[Krill]

barbs won't enter our territory until 3 teams have second cities (or three new cities have been built?)...Also, I doubt we will have a second csettler before turn 40, though it is definately possible to get the second settler by turn 45 if we want to.

 

[Ronnie1]

Here are some ideas that I have about our early game....these have been edited down from a conversation that Gen_W and I had on MSN.

Ron says:
I think the map is big for the number of civs in play...i think we need to concentrate on an early REX strategy similar to an emperor/immortal level single player game

food is premium...hammers secondary....cottages last in priority(especially if we plan on moving Capitol later)

science early comes from cap and specialists

Early scientists = early Academy

more scientists for bulbing

possibly strategic wonders based on map and resources

Mids for Rep make specialists more valuable

water map = Great LH/Colossus

possibly get a religion for an early shrine to fund expansion

General_W says:
I dunno - if this were single player where we could bribe off the AI with techs and tribute, I'd be more likely to agree. I think we could be in serious trouble if we don't come out of the gate with a strong enough military to discourage an early war.

Ron says:
you cant bribe before Alphabet anyway!

imo we are to focused on early defense with no enemy in sight

i would rather have chariots than axes

move faster....kill axes

IF we are attacked early....it will be with Axe or Quecha(is Capac in the game) or Immortal.

Immortals would be biggest problem

Only counter for Immortal is Spear or horse archer

General_W says:
hmm - there's also the issue of Barbarians. but I agree those are less threatening. (sans and uprising random event)

Ron says:
not really worried about barbs

we can fogbust with cheap warriors to keep them at bay

they wont attack cities until T45-50 anyway

I'm just really new to this format....very new to this team (seems like some of you guys have played together before).... not sure how to best serve the team at this point

General_W says:
well - I think you could probably get buy-in from the team on modifying our approach a bit. I still think having a strong prouduction city for #2 is going to be good. But it might be best to restrain the warmongers a bit.

General_W says:
This is the second Civ4 MTDG - so a lot of our team has played before - but not necessarily on the same team.

Ron says:
it is hard to make early war against humans

in another game im in

i was attacked with a warrior to try and suppress early production

t15 i think

once i killed the suppressor

i was able to get my farms up and then able to counter attack very quickly with horses

even being suppressed until about T35....by T70 he was on the run big time

i have just been playing around with the map settings...standard/low water...lots of land to settle

General_W says:
I think you ought to post all this in the Team Forum. even if it gets shot-down, it'll help the team be more thoughtful about what we're doing... and moderate the militaristic bent we're on at the moment.

Ron says:
ok...what do you think about copying this entire conversation into the discussion thread

easier than rewriting!

General_W says:
lol - sure. you'll probably want to do a little clean-up work to make it more readable - but that sounds fine to me!

So not edited a whole lot....

Basically what I'm trying to say is that we need to grow our civ as big as possible as quickly as possible...once we have a superiority in number of cities and ALL the things that go with that, = higher GNP/Production/Crop yield etc....we will be hard to beat.

I am not necessarily arguing against city #2 by the copper, but very much in favor of finding HORSES early and leveraging their ability to counter Axes and explore as quickly as scouts with ~400%+ survivability.

FOOD FOOD FOOD...the most valuable resource for the first 100+ turns...can be easily converted to hammers or science after libraries (Scientist Specialists, even better with Caste System).

If city #2 goes by the copper...then city #3 need to go by the horses ASAP imo...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think barbs might be a big issue - lots of land means lots of places barbs can come from. We can bust fog, but remember that if we have more than 4 units outside our cultural borders, we pay gold for the priviledge.

 

[Memphus]

you don't need tons of axes....just 1 per 2 cities....that keeps barbs away

horse is important. but now we have copper it isn't as important

 

[Ronnie1]

you don't need tons of axes....just 1 per 2 cities....that keeps barbs away

horse is important. but now we have copper it isn't as important

I would respectfully disagree...they are more valuable for scouting, AND they are +100% attacking axes, so they survive better because you can pick your battles a little easier. Sometimes you can lose axes to axes even on defense.

 

[Memphus]

hmmm good point but i would guess our odds of horse and copper = 0

 

[Ronnie1]

I would respectfully disagree again....I believe that Sulla has balanced the map somewhat, and we will find ALL strategic resources within 8-10 squares of our start.

 

[Memphus]

we shall see. We are going wheel next, but i have no objection to AH right after

 

[Ronnie1]

Did we actually get a consensus on the next tech?...I am looking back over the thread and having a hard time finding this info?