General Turn Discussion

[azzaman333]

I see no need for war, unless they attack Angle.

I think we should point out that any attack on Angle will be considered a declaration of war.

 

[Krill]

They attack Angle, it autorazes.

If they have a settler in the FoW and 2 archers, they can settle to make it impossible for us to replant Angle. It's also incredibly hard to take down such a city quickly with no spears to protect our axes.

Later on they culture bomb the city and we are screwed.

That chariot has to die.

 

[dutchfire]

If we move one of our axes to the grassland, they can't attack Angle without declaring war on us.
We might even want to block all 3 tiles S of Angle (so SW, S and SE). That way, they will be the aggressors.

Also, it gives us one more turn with a chance for Angle to grow, so we can take it.

 

[azzaman333]

They attack Angle, it autorazes.

If they have a settler in the FoW and 2 archers, they can settle to make it impossible for us to replant Angle. It's also incredibly hard to take down such a city quickly with no spears to protect our axes.

Later on they culture bomb the city and we are screwed.

That chariot has to die.

If they settle to make it impossible to replant Angle, we kill that too.

 

[Krill]

How? They have chariots and we have 1 spear that is currently 6 turns from reaching Angle.

We can't kill a Kaz city with the units we have, so we have to stop them from planting such a city.

So we have to keep Angle alive. Dutchfire is correct that we could sacrifice an axe to protect Angle for a turn...but we'd end up killing the chariot anyway, and be one axe down, possibly more if they have other chariots in the area.

EDIT: gotta appreciate the irony of having the DoI want war and the DoW want peace.

 

[azzaman333]

How long do we have to play?

We should aim to solve the problem through diplomacy, and if nothing gets worked out peacefully we kill the chariot in the last hours of the turn. War should be the last option in this case, not the first one.

 

[Memphus]

If we move one of our axes to the grassland, they can't attack Angle without declaring war on us.
We might even want to block all 3 tiles S of Angle (so SW, S and SE). That way, they will be the aggressors.

Also, it gives us one more turn with a chance for Angle to grow, so we can take it.

Sure they can the go right under the units....

If we moved there and decalred war, they would be unable to without killing our unit. But really...that is throwing an axe away.

If we do attack them we have:

Spoiler :

Odds of Winning.

 

[Krill]

We have to have made a decision by the time we play our turn, so something like 28 hours plus Saturns play time.

The problem is that war is the last option, but none of the others work.

We can't risk giving them the chance to raze Angle; so we have to block them.

We block them and they attack, we lose an axe, and give them a greater chance of killing another one of our axes after we attack their injured chariot. If we lose two axes we won't have a chance to hold Angle IMO.

The only diplomatic action we can do is demand that they disband the chariot...

 

[azzaman333]

Maybe I'm putting too much trust into them not breaking a treaty, but I don't think they would risk attacking us at the moment. We significantly better production and power than our nearest rival. Attacking us would be a very dangerous move by them.

 

[Krill]

Considering the distances involved? Not really. They only fear pissing us off and us invading them.

But they think they are getting fued in 6-7 turns, so why fear an invasion? Longbows will stop anything we can throw at them.

And they have chariots v axes atm, so the tactical situation favours them. They should want war.

 

[dutchfire]

IMO we should avoid being the aggressor at all cost. The diplomatic downsides far outweigh the advantages. I'd be perfectly willing to sacrifice a single axe, if that means they're the ones declaring war instead of us. If we're attack, we're much more likely to get support from Saturn, and Kaz is much less likely to get much support from Cav. I doubt Cav will like it much to go into an all out war over a barb city for Kaz.

Besides, our attack odds right now aren't that bright, with an extra turn of healing, they'll be better.

 

[Memphus]

Ok more info:

Zuff Redirected: 4 Turns to make a difference. (he has to be redirected)

Spoiler :

Our Spearman is 6 turns away, so is the other axe, but someone has to stay back with the 2 workers and the settler, I vote the axeman.


One Possibility we have is:

Move Barentz NE and Fortify.
They currently can't see him So this will show them we have alot of power in the area.
This Will Heal Watersoft this turn but 1 Full to 4.7 .

Move IJzer 1 Tile S (or SE) and Use STR 1 Promo.
This Lets us see if they have more units close by. Downside, if they want to be agressive this Axeman is dead. (Dutchfire that does give you your them being aggressive though)


On the diplomatic front we have some choices:
Here is the interesting part:
We say nothing.

Thier Predicted action is:

Move that chariot N and evaluate what is in Angle. They will see 1 warrior with 78% odds of winning. The may attack they may not. This is a gamble (they could also on the outside chance lose the battle, or just move back S again and wait for reinforcements.


Or Diplomatically, we ask them to leave.


Bonus Round: (I just thought of this)

Krill Is Angle Worth MC? Could we offer MC to them to cease and walk away?

 

[dutchfire]

If we move our axe to the tile S of Angle, they wouldn't be able to see that Angle is lightly defended, and might not go there, as long as we manage to block all 3 tiles. (Barentz NE, Waterstof E, IJzer (?) S)

I don't think they're willing to declare war (and quite probably lose a chariot) for a chance to raze a barb city.

 

[Krill]

I'd sell MC for Angle. I can't see us working that into diplomacy though. We also have the problem that they have explicitly stated they don't want MC from us. To offer it now we would have to lay all of the cards on the table and say that they won't be getting MC from Cav or MS. I don't know if that is wise.

 

[Krill]

If we move our axe to the tile S of Angle, they wouldn't be able to see that Angle is lightly defended, and might not go there, as long as we manage to block all 3 tiles. (Barentz NE, Waterstof E, IJzer (?) S)

I don't think they're willing to declare war (and quite probably lose a chariot) for a chance to raze a barb city.

We aren't at war, so they can send the chariot underneath the axe. We would have to threaten them with war if they attack Angle.

 

[dutchfire]

Oh crap, that was the civ3 part of my brain...

 

[General_W]

what rotten timing!
This is a pickle for sure.

Draft proposal to Kaz coming up soon (over in their embassy)

 

[Dreylin]

Sounds like we need to ask Saturn to take the max time on their turn to give us additional time to resolve the situation without having to ask for a pause.

 

[Memphus]

and then there was war.

Chariot DEAD! 70% odds way to go barentz.

But as you can see we have a new dilema. I have not ended turn until people can Weigh in. Do w move Waterstof SE to cover barentz?

If we do that if they move W W we are golden. We have 2 units to kill the chariot. However if they move SW NW then not so good.

My preferance is still to protect Barentz (currently named waterstof long story) and send Kaz a note includign the Saturn threat of No Feud.

 

[Krill]

How strong is Barentz?