Genetically engineered soldiers

[civilizationfanatic2000]

For near future possibilities, the game might usefully look at both Future Tech predictions from the people who follow those things for a living, and other games.

The Near Future (actually, predicted for years now, but always Not Quite Here Yet)

Autonomous, AI-driven vehicles - both military and civilian
Nanotech - the ability to make anything out of anything
Genetic Enhancement - with all of its ethical and political ramifications.
Fusion Power
Re-wilding - which is going on now, but could be increased in scale and size
Invisibility through materials science - experiments are now going on

From the old Test of Time game:

Orbital Habitats of city size - which could include the L5 projects that could be really huge - kilometers long cylinders housing potentially millions of people
Undersea mining and exploitation
Force Field defenses - this, it turns out, is still probably Far Away

Just thoughts, but I think examples of what could be included in a "4th Age" that covers Near Future.

If we want to be uber realistic than the only use for genetic engineering is to genetically engineer bioweapons like bacteria.

 

[Gorbles]

Well, I got your point and I can tolerate one or two 'near-future' elements, but I’d say that the Giant Death Robot is not near-future at all - it's pure science fiction. The science victory in Civ6 feels tedious and unnecessarily long. I much prefer Civ5's version, where the rocket parts were built separately and transported to be assembled at the launch site.

I did wonder if anyone was going to talk about the pacing of the science victory

That doesnt have much to do with the immersion around the narrative setting. That's gameplay / balance.

Yes, but it should depend on what is included. Is a genetically-engineered population NEAR-future, or much further down? I would say the latter, along with multiple-exoplanet colonization, functional and harmonious world government, 300-year-lifespans, panacea, near-light-speed travel, etc. Such hypothetical techs are almost certainly not coming anytime soon.

Of course it depends. But games also work on an implicit level of rule of cool, which takes us to that dreaded topic of "immersion", the threshold for which is impossible to determine. Everyone has their own limits, and the devs are making a game that appeals to whatever range of people with differing levels of immersion as possible.

I'm not complaining about anyone saying "this far is too far for me". It's valid, and I respect that even if I like the GDRs in VI, not everyone will. The same goes for "genetically engineered emotional shut-ins don't sue us Games Workshop" (GW are notoriously litigious of their IP for those not in the know ). I personally don't think that kind of unit belongs in Civilisation at all.

GDRs I like for three reasons, personally:

1. We don't know what future tech will develo over the next 50 to 150 years (and a Civ game's timeline goes roughly that far I think - 2150 or so in VI?). Some abstraction is required.
2. Implementing realistic / accurate military tech can be a fun legal situation (see War Thunder, which I'll explain if anyone wants me to).
3. Implementing things that are more likely to be used in current conflicts brings a cultural component that might not actually bring enjoyment. A Giant Death Robot is safe. A generic nuke is safe. Generic tanks or modern armour are safe. Mirroring the tools used in insert geopolitical context here gets a lot less safe, fast. And that's where a lot of military development is going. That's what warfare is probably still going to look like in 50 years time.

Would I be sad if the GDR didn't exist in VII? If it wasn't replaced with anything, presuming the game stretches to the same kind of future date as previous game timelines did? Yes. Happy to wait and see though.

 

[BuchiTaton]

At surface the fixed CIV7's ages system could seems like a nice chance to flesh out a Future Age, but CIV never has provided an interesting Future Era beyond something to decorate the "one more turn" gameplay. Also since CIV is a history inspired game and the future is not history yet, there is not a real need for future gameplay in the first place.
So having said this and not expecting CIV to ever have a proper furturistic gameplay, I would personally like a game that include some future eras. Mods like CIV4's Caveman to Cosmos and games like Empire Earth were a lot of fun in their scifi inspired elements.

Now I think is just natural that a lot of players of games like CIV where we can have "wha if..." historical based scenarios would like a "what if..." continuation for those narratives. And to be honest I would not be surprise that like now a lot of people are praising Firaxis for the civ shifting mechanic because "they would make it works unlike Humankind" would certainly be prasing Firaxis if they decide to bring alter Ages/Eras like Millennia.
Then as others pointed a Futuristic scenario for a game does not need to be 100% likely as CIV is far from be 100% historical in they representation (looking at units like "Jaguar Slayer"), considering this is natural to want something flashy like robots to provide a futuristic feeling.

After all even the more laureate scifi writers and technical specialists have failed in some of their predicitions for the future, so why not build our own amazing vision of the future?
For example for me the problem with the GDR is not the robot part, but the fact that is a "super robot" that comes out of nowhere. For me the implementation of futuristic upgrades for more militar units including some regular mecha units would have been more interesting and immersive.

 

[Flactine]

Imagine this scenario: a farmer has spent years and billions of dollars on genetic technology to make his horse run at speeds of up to 80km/s for long periods of time.
His neighbor built a car.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

"Genetically Engineered" humans is an old, old Science Fiction concept. Everybody who ever proposes it overlooks the obvious problem with it, and it isn't any resistance from the general population or the rest of humanity, although that could be considerable.

It's the fact that it takes 15 - 20 years to get a genetically enhanced soldier starting with a genetically enhanced baby. And during that time your opponents can simply develop better weapons for their soldiers, train them in a year or so, and wipe out you and your genetically enhanced children. The entire concept is militarily inefficient.

Also, of course, there are limitations to just how enhanced you can make the humans: you can make the average, or even above-average - sized human body stronger, but you cannot make it as strong potentially as a machine made of advanced metals and powered by advanced engines: the limitation on the human is built in, the limitations on the machinery are only in the technology achieved.

Robert Heinlein (who was both a trained engineer and a trained military officer) made the better prediction of potential advances with his Mobile Infantry - ordinary men motivated and trained the way ordinary men have been trained and motivated since at least Roman times, equipped with enhanced 'suits' of armor powered and equipped with very advanced weapons, sensors, engines. He supposed systems that would make the most of ordinary humans instead of trying to breed extraordinary humans which would take more time and quickly reach the limitations of the biology.

The principle addition to that since he wrote Starship Troopers is that today we know that Camouflage is just about everything: if you can be spotted, you can be targeted by something Big Enough to kill you, no matter what kind of Supersuit or Genes you sport. So the major addition to Heinlein's concept would be masking, deceiving, 'stealth' and other technologies to make the trooper as invisible as possible to the enemy weapons.

Of course, that adds another problem to the game: how do you show off graphically an advanced weapon/soldier system that is trying very hard to be Invisible to every possible surveillance system? Another suspension of belief will be required . . .

Personally I THINK GMO Soldiery originated from Pre-Modern Warrior Caste. 'Those Who Fought'. from Old Indian Ksatriyas, Mediterranean 'Horsemen' caste (either Greek Hippites, or Roman Equites both had the meanings both of actual functions and social standings.), and Medieval Knights, Samurais, and Wuxia. Today these were distant memories as modernity made concepts of warrior caste obsolete. By the time these castes were first founded. they were expected to be better fighting elements than armed civilians because they dedicate their lives for warfare from the start. In truth it was proven untrue. as they too became flambouyant cowards, especially with a fief given to them, and peasants to work their lands and pay their protection fees. And eventually commonners 'who had nothing to lose' would find the same military professions in those knightly place and would offer themselves a combat avatar to those lofty overlords..... for a hefty price that at least could equip them with the same elite knight gears.
And with that Knights added with Scifi mix of genetic engineerings that was first developed by a certain extreme nationalist movement that serves their political ends rather than scientific or medical uses.

And this 'GMO' specially bred warriors VS an enemy nation that developed user-friendlier advanced weaponry and wargear actually reminiscents to the End of Knighthoods at the dawn of Firearms. GMO warriors are comparable to knightly elites, and opponents would develop combo Pikemen+Musketeers based army. What else could I think of? or how American Fusiliers could stood their ground against Mexican Cuirassiers in 1850s.

3rd Paragraph. alternatively came to a different concept of either cyborgs or 'trans humanism' concepts famously adopted by Leiji Matsumoto in his Galaxy Express 999 --Machinemen.

Count Mecha

Count Mecha is one of the major antagonists in the Leijiverse. He was a wealthy Machine-Man that hunted humans for sport, lived in a free reign and also responsible for killing Tetsuro Hoshino's mother and seeks vengeance against him. In the film version, he is a ranking member of the Machine...

villains.fandom.com

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

From the old Test of Time game:

Orbital Habitats of city size - which could include the L5 projects that could be really huge - kilometers long cylinders housing potentially millions of people

That's exactly Mobile Suit Gundam setting! but will it includes big 'mobile suit' bots and insanely efficient ECM and ECCM warfare (the use of 'Minovski particles') that rended BVR weaponry useless?

 

[Uberfrog]

I am not in favour of there being any sort of Future Age in Civ 7. It’s a historical strategy game first and foremost, and the science fiction stuff (Space Elevator, GDR, XCOM, etc) always feels gimmicky and tacked on. The civ choices will also be… interesting to say the least.

I actually liked it when Civ 6 ended the game with launching the Mars colony (rather than the Alpha Centauri stuff from earlier games), but hated when Gathering Storm pointlessly lengthened the process.

We haven’t seen anything of Modern Age gameplay yet, but this is a good opportunity for Firaxis to redesign the scientific victory condition from scratch. There’s no reason to go too far into the future.