Getting ahead on prince

[MKamp]

Hi all,

After playing my first few games on easy difficulty (<4) I am now trying to play on prince. I am on a standard pangea map and playing as the Japanese.

But I am having a hard time getting ahead of the AI. The AI always gets ahead very quickly on the score and thus - most everything else. It founds new cities faster then me, it researches faster then me, builds wonders faster then me (thus destroying all my wonder progress) etc. And in the rankings that sometimes popup I am almost always last.

I just don't seem to get ahead. So, as a result, I keep on restarting and trying again.

Do you have any general advice on what I am doing wrong? I know that on prince the AI does not get any special bonusses over me, but it certainly seems so.

Thank you for any help you can give me!

Oh and by the way: my goal is a domination victory.

 

[Matthew.]

Do you have any general advice on what I am doing wrong? I know that on prince the AI does not get any special bonuses over me, but it certainly seems so.

It actually does get minor bonuses. The AI always plays at Chieftain level and from there they get further bonuses. The "no bonuses" on Prince simply means they have nothing in addition to what they already get at Chieftain.

I wouldn't worry too much about how the AI is doing until late medieval/early Renaissance. As you move up in difficulty it becomes increasingly more common to be behind until mid-game.

Make National College a priority and don't delay Universities too long. Once you begin working great scientist slots you should start pulling away from the AI.

 

[marekb]

First of all - try to stop building wonders. Wonders are cool but they are a trap for less experienced players. In particular if you go for domination, try to build your military and get wonders from AI. A plenty of good advices you will find here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=491740

 

[Matthew.]

Oh, and agreed with Marek. If you are playing for domination, don't waste hammers on wonders. Let the AI build them for you.

 

[MKamp]

Thanks for the tips guys. I really appreciate it.

I will try out the 'no wonders' tip. But what about The Great Library? That seemed to be a good idea as an early wonders as it will boost science early on.

 

[Unresolved]

Thanks for the tips guys. I really appreciate it.

I will try out the 'no wonders' tip. But what about The Great Library? That seemed to be a good idea as an early wonders as it will boost science early on.

Great Library is great, but not if you misuse it. People suggest that you don't build it while you're learning because becoming dependent on the GL will absolutely sink your game plan once you reach the high difficulties.

 

[marekb]

No GL too. It costs quite a lot and building it slows down your expansion and building military. In the same time you can build library, granary and archer and start something else. Look at 4 cities tradition opening (there is a thread about it here). The goal at the beginning should be growth and expansion. It happened to me AI (on Prince) build GI in turn 40-42. If you try one city challenge, GL could be worth trying (if you can finish it before t45), but otherwise it is better to build other stuff.

The only wonder I could seriously consider going for domination is Great Wall, because it is quite painful to attack AI with GW (but you can do that, in particular if you outtech them).

 

[Matthew.]

Just go for NC instead. No competition for NC and whatever strategies you develop on Prince will carry over on to other difficulties (GL is nearly impossible to get at Immortal/Deity)

 

[Browd]

Try some games without GL. You'll be amazed at how much empire-building progress you make when not building GL.

 

[MKamp]

Thanks again for all the tips. I will try them out in my next game.

 

[joncnunn]

Score is totally meaningless in Civ V; it has no bearing on who's most likely to win any condition (other than the 2050 time victory)
Check the Demographics screen, you want to be #1 in Literacy at the bottom.

Cities: No need to found lots of cities in Civ V; founding a total of four cities is plenty to win any victory condition including Domination.

Raze the AI's "junk city sites"; initially puppet the ones your going to keep. And have spare happiness before you start wars in which your wanting to add enlarge your empire.

 

[Slowpoked]

The reason people say not to get GL is it teaches some habits that are unfeasible at higher difficulties. As you move up in difficulty, the AI starts with prerequisite techs for building the GL and a worker and extra gold. Combine that with the fact that many AI's prioritize the GL and you will miss it 9/10 at higher levels.

You can live without wonders. Of course if you have an amazing desert location for a second city you should probably beeline Petra in it, but other than that there aren't any wonders which make-or-break the city they are built in.

 

[Sequiture]

Can someone say what bonuses the AI gets on Prince and King? I will make the jump, but I think it will feel like going from Chieftan to Deity, haha. I heard they aren't that significant.. If I can easily beat AI on Prince I will win on King barely?

 

[marekb]

Look here: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties

Considering early wonder. The main reason not to build them (unless you can do that fast and your strategy fits it - eg. try NC Liberty opening) is that you need to scarify early (precious) hammers on them while you can use them in more effective way. Moreover you normally slows down your growth.

 

[joncnunn]

Can someone say what bonuses the AI gets on Prince and King? I will make the jump, but I think it will feel like going from Chieftan to Deity, haha. I heard they aren't that significant.. If I can easily beat AI on Prince I will win on King barely?

King is the first level AI starts with an extra tech (Pottery).

Emperor: AI also starts with Animal Husbandary but more importantly they each get a free starting scout.

Immortal: AI also starts with a worker. (And Mining). AI has get an extra defense unit or two.

Deity: AI also starts with an extra settler; a second starting worker, and yet another free tech. Also additional defense units.

Emperor is very minor step up compared to King. Immortal is a big leap (due to the worker). Deity is an even bigger leap (due to the extra settler)

 

[The Pilgrim]

The reason people say not to get GL is it teaches some habits that are unfeasible at higher difficulties. As you move up in difficulty, the AI starts with prerequisite techs for building the GL and a worker and extra gold. Combine that with the fact that many AI's prioritize the GL and you will miss it 9/10 at higher levels.

You can live without wonders. Of course if you have an amazing desert location for a second city you should probably beeline Petra in it, but other than that there aren't any wonders which make-or-break the city they are built in.

In all honesty, I think, it's psychological trap more than anything else. It goes beyond wonders. Civ is all about adjustment and playing the map, but people just can't grasp this concept and do the same things over and over again. They might think they can, but the practice proves the opposite. 95% of king and below threads describe the same pattern exactly. And we had hundreds of threads like this over the years. Same wonders, same reasoning behind building the wonders in the first place, same obstacles - same everything. Avoiding them during learning process not only frees your build order but also your mind and forces you to think about empire needs and how to prioritize them rather then being stuck in a constant chase after bling blings. Now I'll get GL to get free tech, which must be right, since everybody says science is important. Next I'll beeline Mathematics for HG, since everybody says food is important. After that I have to hurry up to get Petra, because well, it's amazing. Then the ND - I need happiness for growth which is important for science and we've already established how important science is etc. It never ends. And sure you can do all this on chieftain or prince or king. But not because it's a good strategy but because on these levels you can use exceptionally bad strategies, give up on vitals in favor of bonuses and be forgiven.

 

[Matthew.]

Yeah, it is easy to fall into a cycle of building wonders. It is like a gambling game where you double down.

"Hey, I got one wonder and some awesome bonuses real easy. Why not another?"

"Wow two and no harm done! Just imagine the pure awesomeness of my empire if I add another!"

"The AI still hasn't grabbed these?! Well, they are low turns so I will quickly add them"

"Oh hey China, what you doing so close to my border? We had a declaration of friendship! NOOO it burns!!!!"

*dies* :suicide:

 

[Sequiture]

But if I only play on King and below? Why about when my insane production city has built every building? I don't need workers or chat units, so occaisonally I build a semi-useful wonder.

Also, Apollo and Manhatten project - everyone can build them?

 

[Unresolved]

But if I only play on King and below? Why about when my insane production city has built every building? I don't need workers or chat units, so occaisonally I build a semi-useful wonder.

Also, Apollo and Manhatten project - everyone can build them?

If you've built every building, then you're no longer in the beginning of the game where this matters. On higher difficultues(maybe not Deity), you can get whatever mid/end-game wonder you want because your infrastructure is already established and you're not neck-to-neck in research with the AI(hopefully). But in the beginning of the game, going for the GL->HG->Petra->Oracle in a row will get you killed on higher levels.

Yes, Apollo and the Manhattan Project can be built by everyone.

 

[marekb]

Even if you play on Prince or King. If you want to build 4 cities (+Tradition) quickly then at the beginning you are building settlers, workers, archers. Finally, your capital can build wonder. But it is usually t50-60 (or later). Petra is worth trying if you can build it. However, if GL is not build it is very risky to try it.

Considering difficulties levels. A lot depends on a map. If you have nice start (plenty of food, good production) King can be felt easier than Prince with bad start (small amount of food, bed production). For example, last GOTM: TSG57 is at King, but the map is very nice and game is quite easy. If you play Spain and have a luck to have two/three natural wonders near your starting location - than the game is -1 or -2 levels (in particular if you can settle near Uluru or The Great Barrier Reef).