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[R&F] Getting Rolled on Deity

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fluphen Azine, May 25, 2018.

  1. GeorgeF

    GeorgeF Chieftain

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    Aztec Warriors are just so strong. I had a city protected by mountains and water only one place for warrior to attack, one place for archer to snipe, and one place for galley, with lots of archer spots for me to shoot at him, and I had Defender of the Faith. He still took the city 2 turns after I killed the galley with archers. (though I took it back a few turns later).
     
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  2. Spudsie74

    Spudsie74 Chieftain

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    The AI has certainly gotten more aggressive (IMO a good thing, it makes me work harder), but is STILL dumb as a rock. I don't object to lack of strategic focus, or poor use of combined arms (like naval & air units), but do mind simple, bone-headed mistakes that are easy to exploit. The AI is particularly poor at dealing with having to make a decision, change it's tactics, ect. Even w/AI attacking my capital, it is easy to count on it making gross errors, because of it's inability to adapt.

    An AI attack on the capital now tends to ignore countermeasures...they just keep hammering away. I have had to adapt my tactics (I do LIKE the game), but I would LOVE it if there were more of a strategic challenge, rather than a series of tactical adaptations. After turn 150, it is all downhill....but Firaxis has made it more challenging to get there.:p
     
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  3. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Rolled a Random Game on Deity Pangaea Standard Map Standard Settings as my usual.

    Almost didn't mess with it when Korea showed up on the loading screen.

    Decided to mess with it a bit. Average Spawn Location for me.
    Scouted Slightly with my Warrior and found a turn 3 Relic.
    Pretty Good Right??

    Turns out I am sandwiched in the middle of Arabia and England. Both of them Forward Settled me.
    More so Arabia compared to England but that didn't stop England from marching all her Warriors.
    I decided awhile back not to trade Relics or Art and such to the AI.
    I was able to improve three hexes with Marble.
    Traded the Marble to Arabia while he danced around with warriors.
    Figured he would attack.
    Turn 15 attack and I had to rush buy two warriors along with two others.
    Traded the Marble over to England who is further away but she brought all her warriors to the party.

    England joins in the fun on turn 20 as I am beating back Arabia.
    So as England presses in now Arabia brings a couple Warriors back to the Party.

    They basically held me hostage for my Relic.
    It came down to if I give up the Relic I can have all the gold from one of them and Peace.
    If I do not I can not get peace from either of them.
    This will set me back even further than I already am and a potential of getting rolled.
    So I give up the Relic to Arabia for 230 Gold and 12gpt.
    After that I was able to kill some England Troops as she would give peace.
    Had to raze her 3rd city because of Loyalty Issues.
    Arabia just brings 4 Warriors and settles another city on top of me and hangs right on my border.
    I build an expo and get out my second city near some wine to get drunk from this madness.

    Since I am Korea I shouldn't have a problem teching up and killing them eventually.
    However I don't like how the AI not only double teams me but holds me hostage for the Relic!

    I know some of you believe Continents is the harder of the two map choices.
    IMO, I still believe I have more issues with Standard/Standard Pangaea compared to any other map choice.
    Complete Evil Game!
    Arabia has 4 cities right on top of me and England has 2 now not as close but close enough.

    I find the game has no middle ground for me.
    I either Roll the AI very early or ICS and am 3x or more ahead of the AI or my games are pretty even and it is a slog.
    I suppose things will change with the new expansion.
    I guess you won't be able to chop the map down as much since it causes flooding and such.
     
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Honestly, wtf can you do vs Aztec?. It just takes like 2 eagle warriors to take down anything you have, and if they got lucky and advanced fast, it's auto gg.

    The civ is stupidly designed.
     
  5. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Just play Nubia every Diety game to cancel out most of the AI Diety douchebag strategies.

    AI gets insane bonuses? Then you deserve some good bonuses, too.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    ... until your Aztec neighbours come before you get archers.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Vs deity bonus + Aztec you need a little time, or to be something like Aztec/Sumeria/USA/anything with early +str. Walls will stop them for ages because the AI isn't very good, but you won't always have time to get walls.
     
  8. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    I agree about the Walls.
    On some games with aggressive neighbors and getting boxed in I will beeline and build Walls.
    Some games I have to chop them in before any overflow and I am in danger of getting rolled.
    It can get intense trying to rush up the Walls and hopefully I have enough meat shields.

    Sometimes I will get into Blocking the AI.
    It seems if I have 3 to 7 units I can wall the AI into a frozen state.
    Usually I have a 1 hex buffer from my city and I may have to dance around with the AI.
     
  9. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    More referring to mortal civs where you actually have to play the game instead of winning by default.
     
  10. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Here is a game I thought I would play and easily roll with.

    Wrong Again!

    I set up a Continents game to mix it up form my normal Pangaea.
    Deity, Standard Continents Map, All Standard Settings.
    I haven't played Rome for awhile and they can be fun so why not?
    Things seemed pretty good at first... NW next door to the West and decent land.

    Wrong Again!

    Completely boxed in by 3 Civs.
    To the North a rapidly expanding wall building Pericles.
    About 10 hexes away from my capital to the SW we have Gitarja and she is expanding towards us.
    Don't worry to the SE is the dangerous Genghis Kahn and yes he is expanding towards us as well.
    You can see this in the mini map.

    I had a +16 green modifier with Pericles but that didn't matter.
    He attacked my whole Two Cities.
    I was able to settle the NW even though he beat me to the Horses.
    I guess I should of went builder/settler to get it for sure but Barb Camp in that spot.
    3 Civs next door and at times if I build a settler and get Dowed it is Game Over.
    So I went Scout, Builder, Slinger, Settler.
    Mining, AH, Masonry, BW, Pottery, Writing, Archery, Iron Working, Currency.

    I built some Army before the DOW and managed DOF with the other 2 Civ Neighbors.
    I rushed walls as the DOW came and was able to slice up his Army.
    That is until I sent a couple troops to my Expo.
    All of a sudden he shows up with an Archer, 3 Warriors and a Chariot.

    I decided to make Peace with him at that time.
    He wants to DOF now but forget that noise.
    He did get up walls in all his cities in about 3 turns after Peace.

    I am about to get up Legions and a GG and hopefully wipe him but I think its gonna be difficult.
    Classical Normal Age and if I don't get out exploring I will probably be Dark in the Evil Era.

    Game is just mean to me!
    I bought those Cows so I could chop them later.
    No Harvest Pantheon so I went with Pastures so keeping the Cows for now.
    Not many luxuries to justify 7 pop right now.
    Marble and I had to settle the Expo on the spices which kinda sucks.

    Forward.jpg
     
  11. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

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    Hi Fluphen. It would be interesting if you posted the T1 saves when you discuss those games so we can try those. Or maybe you want to start the Civ6 Deity Challenge?
    I feel like i tend to be lucky with Deity starts as i'm rarely rushed very early (unless Monty is there).
     
  12. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    I've posted plenty of turn 1 saves.
    They don't get much traction.
    Perhaps 1 to 5 downloads.
    Not very much discussion either.

    My game is completely blind with no reloads/replays or map knowledge.
    Completely different world when you know that the NW is a few hexes away.
    It makes a big difference if you read that I have 3 neighbors right on top of me.
    This will make your B.O. Choices much different.
    Knowing that I had double horses and a NW nearby I may have just headed to settle the capital up there.
    Also knowing how close Pericles is makes it easier to steal his settlers.
    For me it was a matter of going left instead of right and worrying about a barb hut.
    Where as if I were to try again I would of went a few clicks to the East and waited for a settler or at least made him not settle so close.

    So this will alter the outcome.
    You have the issue with the honor code as well.
    Some players like to replay the map over and over and post up how easy it was.

    However, at your request, I will start adding them into my posts.
    It appears you just want to have some fun with the start/land that I post up about at times.

    My point is basically on Deity/Pangaea/Stand/Stand things can get out of control pretty quick if you let it.
    This game for me has been a nightmare.
    Pericles has been a beast and I wasn't able to upgrade enough Legions.
    I rushed in a bit too much as well getting sliced up instead of holding back playing defensive killing first.

    The game will change pretty fast very soon anyway.
    Gathering Storm will bring more players out of the woodwork with more discussion.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Umm, when you posted one I played to t100 and someone else won a deity cv peacefully by T150.
    We expected you to ask questions about how it was done.
    I agree there is a HUGE difference between knowing the next move and using the best start. I do neither and do lose through taking risks and sometime it’s just a nasty start when Nubia comes at you full force early.
     
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  14. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    I certainly wasn't excluding everyone on this board.
    I know that some interest does exist.
    Just didn't seem like enough interest to remember to save every turn 1 game I play.
    I tend to play a lot of games.

    Sometimes I am just posting up pictures of games where things get nasty from the get go.
    I hardly post up any of the games that I win 15 in a row by steam rolling.
    For me it is the 1 out of 20 games that I just don't understand what is going on lol.
    Although I will notice if I just build military from the start I never have to worry.
    The game will take longer but if I go military in my first 6 to 8 builds I never have trouble.
    The games that get wild are when I go something like builder, builder, settler and I have close neighbors.

    Sometimes I don't follow up with questions because I know what you guys are doing for the most part.
    Just being able to see your turn 100 picture on the same game tells me a lot of what you did and how much you chopped.
    I can tell how you have taken the time to actually plan out districts to get adjacency.
    The major differences are the Golden Ages.
    Compare a game with Harvest to no Harvest and your gonna see different games.

    Dan Quayle doesn't count!
    He is a machine that crushes this game no matter what!
    I never see him turn in games over 150 turns :)
    That guy along with Vicotria are just too good at this game!

    I did try to get a Deity Challenge Thread going in the past posting up games and discussion but it never caught traction.
    Perhaps Gathering Storm will get some interest and players can share some games once again.
    Funny how in Civ IV and V that was a popular thing or thread but with VI players don't seem as interested.
    You still have the GOTM but that is once every 2 months for a Deity game.

    I did not mean to offend anyone with my previous post.
     
  15. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

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    Fair enough. I must confess i haven't been very active on this board. GS announcement sparked my interest for Civ6 once more and i came back and looked around and seeing those posts of you (and remembering your name for the Civ5 Deity Challenge) i thought doing the same for Civ6 might be a good idea, didn't know you already tried.

    Don't do it if it's a chore for you, especially not just for me as i don't know whether or not my interest for Civ6 will dwindle again as it always did before. Not sure what's wrong for me, Civ6 has a lot of good ideas and it's definitely not a graphics issue (i rather quickly got used to the caricatured leaders) but it doesn't really work well for me as a whole. I guess the UI is at least half the reason i can't enjoy this one as much as i enjoyed Civ5 (even with CQUI being a huge improvement).
     
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  16. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Warlord Supporter

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    I'm at risk of projecting my own feelings on to others, but compared to Civ 4 and Civ 5 I believe that Civ 6 has less to offer to players who are interested in strategy and trying to play well. Most players looking for a challenge have, I suspect, moved on to games that offer a challenge, rather than trying to figure out a way to make Civ 6 challenging. Thus, your potential audience for Deity challenge games has been reduced.

    Perhaps this will change after GS is released.
     
  17. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Just finished this game.
    I used to think all starts were winnable no matter what.
    I don't think that anymore.
    When Monty Turn 8 Forward Settles you and has no other targets bad things happen.
    Funny how he goes from +14 modifier to instantly hating you and denouncing you.
    A few turns later he shows up on your doorstep with massive Eagle Warriors.
    Perhaps if you go straight military and rush walls you might survive but I have seen him blitz thorough those before.
    I don't mind losing but the game is either a decided loss or win from turn 5 in my experience.
    Although it is a low percentage to get rolled I still find that it happens on Deity Standard/Standard Pangaea Settings.
    I feel this map type is the most difficult to survive the Early Game.
    Are all games winnable no matter the start?
    Fun.

    Monty.jpg
     
  18. Forster

    Forster Chieftain

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    How many eagle warriors does he start with on deity to have so many by turn 26?
     
  19. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Deity AI starts with 5 warriors (or warrior-equivalent UUs, like eagle warriors).
     
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  20. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    My last 4 games have been difficult starts with aggressive neighbors.
    I won 2 out of 3 and am currently playing this game.
    I have been trying to get a Violent RV going but in all the games so far Holy Sites were not an option.
    The last 2 games I am using Arabia so I don't have to rush an early HS.
    However, Monty ruined my plans on the first go and now this is the second go round.
    On turn 2 I had to take a picture... save the game... reload the auto save to save the file so I could share with all interested parties.
    The good news is my neighbor will be HS happy most likely.
    Some more good news is that it is not Monty.
    Military First along with Mining and perhaps Walls.
    Walls might be overkill.
    It would be nice to steal a settler if possible but that could be early death as well.
    Here are the Screen Shots and Turn 1 Save File if anyone has interest.
    I will play the game out and post about it in the future.

    Are these maps not big enough for 8 AIs?
    Is there something coded that makes the AI spawn within 7 hexes of your Capital?
    I haven't even had the chance to scout yet.
    This could be one of those games where you have 2 or 3 neighbors boxing you in, making life miserable.


    Settings are the usual for my games.

    Deity
    Standard Pangaea Map
    Standard Settings
    7 Random AI


    Spoiler Turn 1 :

    Arabia2.jpg


    Spoiler Turn 2 :

    Arabia1.jpg


    On Turn 6 and 7 I tried to steal a settler with no success.
    I advise building a Warrior First but I went for a Builder to chop in Army or Walls.
    I also had to get a loan on turn two to get 25 gold for Tribute.

    Spoiler Turn 7 :

    Arabia 7.jpg


    Survived the Wave by turn 30.
    Researching Masonry is probably not correct and a waste.
    I had to get loans and pay a Civ to get involved in the War.
    4 or 5 close neighbors.
    I haven't been able to scout but their scouts found me pretty quick.
    Neighbor looks to have built Stonehenge so a Violent RV might work.

    Spoiler Turn 30 :

    Arabia 30.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019

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