Getting Started, or, How to Cook for 10,000 Unexpected Houseguests

Unser Giftzwerg

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Insteag of just :gripe:ing all the time I figured I'd try a positive appraoch for a change of pace. Since my first spin of FfH I, I've played with the following settings.

Emperor, Raging Barbarians, Agressive AI, Fractal Map fully randomized.

For my money, ya gotta play FfH with the Raging Barbarians setting. The opening game can really be a pain, but in the end the game is a lot more fun. My last couple games have been less painful than my first few, so it occured to me I might have actually learned a thing or two. I'm passing them along, just in case my hunch is right.

1. Regenerate Map. I have no idea how many games I played before I noticed this feature. Now I use it. Just take a look at your surroundings. Does it offer you something you like? Early Stone? Odd geography to exploit? Rich :food: production? Certain Incense for the mid-game? If not, Regenerate. You'll be playing on the map for a long time. Why not get one you'll probably like once it's explored?

2. Don't settle that settler yet. Locate the sites for Cities Two, Three, Four, and maybe Five. Think ahead before yo plop down that capitol. Having problems finding additional city sites? Regeneration Map time.

3. Don't be afraid to move that settler. It has a huge viewing range and moves at speed 4. In my last game I moved my settler 4 tiles to where I wanted my capitol. But in doing so it revealed so much new map that I moved it again, another 4 tiles. I did not build my first city unitl turn 3, but I ended up with a great spot, and a LOT of explored territory.

4. Site that capitol to cut off some turf for you. Don't always site it in the middle of your projected empire. On some maps you can site it near where you expect your frontier to be. Your cultural expansion might throw off the ideal AI expansion options, and/or allow you to protect yourself against barbarians.

4. OK, you're playing. Workers? - Forget 'em. Don't build Workers until you are able to stem the tide. You won't be able to defend the tiles they improve, if you improve too early.

5. Since you're not building Workers for while, do you really need the Explorations skill? (Yes, for the +:move: promotion) Or Agriculture? (Probably not.) So why not start off on the tech tree that takes you towards an early religion or such. (In general. Of course certain civs have particular needs.)

6. Build a combat unit. You'll need it. And you'll probably want another. And maybe one more. Once you get one Warrior with 2* or more, you can expect it will defend your city very well. Until then, be sure you have some reserves in a capitol city under barbarian attack.

7. As soon as you can risk it, send out a unit to extend your sighting range. And repeat as conditions dictate. Be they Scout units or Warriors or whatever, look where you can post one just outside your cultural borders, on a hilltop or at least in a woods. If you have an observation tower nearby, man it. Barbarians will not appear in a tile you can see. See more tiles => fewer Barbarians appear. The further you see the further away they appear, the longer it takes for them to reach anything important. And your dug-in skirmishers will likely pick up a few exp points with the fighting safely away from your walls.

8. I especially like to post my first sentinel near my planned first city build. Once the settler is built, I'll know if the route to the site is safe or not. If not, I already have a (dug-in) unit in the area to see about the intruder.

9. Give an expericed unit a movement promotion as soon as you can. You'll appreceate the ability to move it to check new threats as they appear. Movement allows you to defend the same empire with fewer units. And saved production at this stage is a boon. This is the opportunity to pop out an Elder Council, or maybe an extra quick settler.

10. Once you have a few sentinel units up, or when you've built your first city, that's the time to start building Workers. By now you should be able to channel most Barbarian appearances to seninel strongholds or to the new city on the frontier. From here on out you might still face a lot of pressure, but you'll have enough breathing room to start planning ahead.

In short, it's explore very early early, but fall back to defend when the Barbs are likely to show up. Pick your startnig site very carefully before you do anything else. Then raise a force and maneuver to extend your sighting range. At this early stage, sighting range is your most precious national asset. Forgo Workers until you can keep the Barbarians at bay, and do all you can to place that second city, safely, as soon as you can. With the second city up, you can breathe a bit easier.

And don't forget. As annoying as the Barbarians are to you, they're doing worse things to your opponents. Well, most of 'em at least. Neutralizing the Barbs to a manageable level will spell wonders for your fortunes in the mid-game.

OK, make to griping and moaning for me. In the meantime, perhaps other players wil add to the list. :)
 
theres a map regen in your first turn if you press Esc.

not sure if it causes problems though, somethings arent always accounted for in that, like, if you meet some other civ and declare war on the first turn, then hit regenerate map, when the new map is up, you'll still be at war and know the person. i think the mana checks might not re-do either.
personally if i dont like the map i just go to main menu and re-do it all from there
 
Unser Giftzwerg said:
Insteag of just :gripe:ing all the time I figured I'd try a positive appraoch for a change of pace. Since my first spin of FfH I, I've played with the following settings.

Emperor, Raging Barbarians, Agressive AI, Fractal Map fully randomized.

For my money, ya gotta play FfH with the Raging Barbarians setting. The opening game can really be a pain, but in the end the game is a lot more fun. My last couple games have been less painful than my first few, so it occured to me I might have actually learned a thing or two. I'm passing them along, just in case my hunch is right.

1. Regenerate Map. I have no idea how many games I played before I noticed this feature. Now I use it. Just take a look at your surroundings. Does it offer you something you like? Early Stone? Odd geography to exploit? Rich :food: production? Certain Incense for the mid-game? If not, Regenerate. You'll be playing on the map for a long time. Why not get one you'll probably like once it's explored?

The problem with this is the MapChecker (tm) only runs on game start. It is responsible for checking to make sure their is an appropriate amount of mana nodes, mithril, etc on the map. If a player regenerates afterwards I cant promise appropriate mana availability.

2. Don't settle that settler yet. Locate the sites for Cities Two, Three, Four, and maybe Five. Think ahead before yo plop down that capitol. Having problems finding additional city sites? Regeneration Map time.

3. Don't be afraid to move that settler. It has a huge viewing range and moves at speed 4. In my last game I moved my settler 4 tiles to where I wanted my capitol. But in doing so it revealed so much new map that I moved it again, another 4 tiles. I did not build my first city unitl turn 3, but I ended up with a great spot, and a LOT of explored territory.

Yeap, thats the intent of the super settler. Have fun with it, it always seemed to me that a band of uncivilizaed men comign together to form the first cities would have a little more knowledge about the surrounding terrain.

4. Site that capitol to cut off some turf for you. Don't always site it in the middle of your projected empire. On some maps you can site it near where you expect your frontier to be. Your cultural expansion might throw off the ideal AI expansion options, and/or allow you to protect yourself against barbarians.

Mmm... those tasty bottlenecks, gotta love them. They are the inner lolipop to my inner child.

4. OK, you're playing. Workers? - Forget 'em. Don't build Workers until you are able to stem the tide. You won't be able to defend the tiles they improve, if you improve too early.

5. Since you're not building Workers for while, do you really need the Explorations skill? (Yes, for the +:move: promotion) Or Agriculture? (Probably not.) So why not start off on the tech tree that takes you towards an early religion or such. (In general. Of course certain civs have particular needs.)

6. Build a combat unit. You'll need it. And you'll probably want another. And maybe one more. Once you get one Warrior with 2* or more, you can expect it will defend your city very well. Until then, be sure you have some reserves in a capitol city under barbarian attack.

7. As soon as you can risk it, send out a unit to extend your sighting range. And repeat as conditions dictate. Be they Scout units or Warriors or whatever, look where you can post one just outside your cultural borders, on a hilltop or at least in a woods. If you have an observation tower nearby, man it. Barbarians will not appear in a tile you can see. See more tiles => fewer Barbarians appear. The further you see the further away they appear, the longer it takes for them to reach anything important. And your dug-in skirmishers will likely pick up a few exp points with the fighting safely away from your walls.

8. I especially like to post my first sentinel near my planned first city build. Once the settler is built, I'll know if the route to the site is safe or not. If not, I already have a (dug-in) unit in the area to see about the intruder.

9. Give an expericed unit a movement promotion as soon as you can. You'll appreceate the ability to move it to check new threats as they appear. Movement allows you to defend the same empire with fewer units. And saved production at this stage is a boon. This is the opportunity to pop out an Elder Council, or maybe an extra quick settler.

10. Once you have a few sentinel units up, or when you've built your first city, that's the time to start building Workers. By now you should be able to channel most Barbarian appearances to seninel strongholds or to the new city on the frontier. From here on out you might still face a lot of pressure, but you'll have enough breathing room to start planning ahead.

In short, it's explore very early early, but fall back to defend when the Barbs are likely to show up. Pick your startnig site very carefully before you do anything else. Then raise a force and maneuver to extend your sighting range. At this early stage, sighting range is your most precious national asset. Forgo Workers until you can keep the Barbarians at bay, and do all you can to place that second city, safely, as soon as you can. With the second city up, you can breathe a bit easier.

And don't forget. As annoying as the Barbarians are to you, they're doing worse things to your opponents. Well, most of 'em at least. Neutralizing the Barbs to a manageable level will spell wonders for your fortunes in the mid-game.

OK, make to griping and moaning for me. In the meantime, perhaps other players wil add to the list. :)

All of this last bit is excellent advice but applys more to the raging barbarian game than the normal. But still if you wonder how players survive on raging barbarians, Unser's advice is the answer.
 
Nikis-Knight said:
By regenerate map, do you mean just restarting, or is there a quick map regen button that keeps all the same settings?

It keeps all the settings. That's what makes it so nice. Takes maybe a inute for a regen... so even impatient types like me can deal with it.
 
Sureshot said:
theres a map regen in your first turn if you press Esc.

not sure if it causes problems though, somethings arent always accounted for in that, like, if you meet some other civ and declare war on the first turn, then hit regenerate map, when the new map is up, you'll still be at war and know the person. i think the mana checks might not re-do either.
personally if i dont like the map i just go to main menu and re-do it all from there

I didn't hear about that or have ever seen it. I don't play turn #1 then hit regen. I just lookat the map and decide to regen or not. Never seen a problem. :shrug:
 
Kael said:
The problem with this is the MapChecker (tm) only runs on game start. It is responsible for checking to make sure their is an appropriate amount of mana nodes, mithril, etc on the map. If a player regenerates afterwards I cant promise appropriate mana availability.

Mmm... those tasty bottlenecks, gotta love them. They are the inner lolipop to my inner child.

All of this last bit is excellent advice but applys more to the raging barbarian game than the normal. But still if you wonder how players survive on raging barbarians, Unser's advice is the answer.

Ihad no idea about the map checker. Well, hush my mouth. I've probably played every game of FfH on a regen'ed map. I've never noticed anything out of whack ... I've no Iron in my ongoing game, but I've experienced that before in every type of Civ. Oh well, I will definitely stop using the regen button.

Hear Ye Hear Ye! Lay off the regenerate map button. :cry:

I love bottlenecks almost as I love narrow ismuiths that allow me to build canal-cities too allow my fleets manuever advataghes. :)

The advice is defeitely inteded for Raging Barbs on the higher skill level. :yup:

(PS: If you've not tried it, consider doing so. In FfH, I've found the higher skill levls are very fun. They do not remind me of top-level vanilla Civ (I-III) games. The player is not simply buried under a wave of exponentially-increasing production advantages by the AI. In FfH, there's time for the player to catch up to the AI production advantage. Or so it seems to me.)
 
A neat trick for managing the hordes ( I play on Noble so I don't know how practical this is on the higher levels) is to extend your sight so that the barbs are coming from only 1 - 2 directions. Also, once you're to the point where you can build workers, a road network along the border is useful for redeploying your gaurds to where they need to be. (in this case, I mean a road leading out to the front.) Also, remember to maximize your defensive bonuses whenever possible.
 
Great tips, Unser. I pretty much agree with it all. I've moved up to Emperor recently, and always choose Raging Barbs.

I'd like to add two things. As I amost always play marathon games, I expect barbarians around turn 100. I try my best to get up my second city before that time - I find it easier to defend a city that is already created than to try to get a protected settler out there once the "rage" is on.

Second, tips for exploring the wilderness in the early game:

1) First of all, keep your warriors home, for obvious reasons. You'll need all the defense you can get, and what little territory you can explore with these slo-mos isn't worth the risk.

2) If you don't have Exploration tech, consider getting it in the near future if you have any desire to explore at all. Mobility promotions are what keep your scouts alive (see #3).

3) Do not use your scout's full movement. Always save enough movement so that you can move back to a 'safe' square. In other words, do not use your last movement to move to a square that borders any other squares you haven't seen that turn, even if you have to skip your remaining movement.

With movement 2 for an unpromoted scout, that means you'll be moving 1 square per turn (unless you've had the fortune of extended site from being on a hilltop or at a sentry tower). Sound boring? Not to me - my scouts last a very long time, dodging bears, spiders, and giants. Once you get Mobility promotions, now you'll be able to cover more distance whilst keeping a safe square within range.

The one thing that this tactic will not save you from are quick animals (panthers, tigers).

- Niilo
 
vorshlumpf said:
Great tips, Unser. I pretty much agree with it all. I've moved up to Emperor recently, and always choose Raging Barbs.

I'd like to add two things. As I amost always play marathon games, I expect barbarians around turn 100. I try my best to get up my second city before that time - I find it easier to defend a city that is already created than to try to get a protected settler out there once the "rage" is on.

Second, tips for exploring the wilderness in the early game:

1) First of all, keep your warriors home, for obvious reasons. You'll need all the defense you can get, and what little territory you can explore with these slo-mos isn't worth the risk.

2) If you don't have Exploration tech, consider getting it in the near future if you have any desire to explore at all. Mobility promotions are what keep your scouts alive (see #3).

3) Do not use your scout's full movement. Always save enough movement so that you can move back to a 'safe' square. In other words, do not use your last movement to move to a square that borders any other squares you haven't seen that turn, even if you have to skip your remaining movement.

With movement 2 for an unpromoted scout, that means you'll be moving 1 square per turn (unless you've had the fortune of extended site from being on a hilltop or at a sentry tower). Sound boring? Not to me - my scouts last a very long time, dodging bears, spiders, and giants. Once you get Mobility promotions, now you'll be able to cover more distance whilst keeping a safe square within range.

The one thing that this tactic will not save you from are quick animals (panthers, tigers).

- Niilo

I agree on the 2nd city. It is definitely easier to defend. But only once at Epic was I able to sneak out such an early city. Usually right about the time I could afford to build a settler is when the Orcs are roaming. So it usually gets delayed to build an 'insurance unit' first. But yeah, definitely, the point it to get city #2 up. Chokepoints and sighting, the tools of the opening game. :)

Great tips on the exploration. I use that technique too .. usually. I use it until I get sloppy / impatient / greedy and move next to an unknown tile. Hello Yogi. Owowowowowghhhckdead. :suicide:

I'd like to hear more impressions form players who use different game speeds. I always - always - used to play on Normal, under the theroy the games lasted long enough as is. But once I tried Epic, I liked it. At Normal, you're researching a replacemetn tech before you've finished building buildings and drafting units using a tech you invented a few turns ago.

But then again, that impression is from Vanilla Civ. I'm wondering how Normal and Marathon play in FfH?
 
Unser Giftzwerg said:
At Normal, you're researching a replacemetn tech before you've finished building buildings and drafting units using a tech you invented a few turns ago.

But then again, that impression is from Vanilla Civ. I'm wondering how Normal and Marathon play in FfH?
That's how i played vanilla too, but for FfH2 you can get away using the same units even on quick, for a long time. I used to play marathon for FfH2 but i found i was getting to the 'endgame' (the state where the world is mine to do with as i please without any real challenges) too early and never discovering even most of the midgame techs.
 
Sureshot said:
That's how i played vanilla too, but for FfH2 you can get away using the same units even on quick, for a long time. I used to play marathon for FfH2 but i found i was getting to the 'endgame' (the state where the world is mine to do with as i please without any real challenges) too early and never discovering even most of the midgame techs.

Thanks, that's kinda what I was worried about.

Right now on Emperor/Epic, I reach the endgame with at least a third of the tree left. Sounds like the exact same thing I'm gonna see if a Huge map makes a difference next.

So many parameters, variables. :confused:
 
Some more advice for anyone who cares :crazyeye:
(I like reading about other people's tactics, so please contribute)

Spoiler :

I'm a micromanager, expecially when it comes to battles, so this next tip may not be for everyone. Basically, make sure you spread out your experience gains between your units during the barbarian rage. If left on their own, the computer will automatically choose the most effective defender for each battle. It makes sense, but this will result in few high-level defenders and the rest still green. Unfortunately, all it takes is one unlucky battle for a high-level defender to be knocked down to half HP and then it's vulnerable to the next barb unit in the stack of attackers.

Since you can't choose your defending units, you have to look for opportunities to make quick attacks yourself without opening yourself up to a counter-attack. Examples include:
- a weak invading unit is alone
- a stack of relatively weak units are next to your defensive position (I found out that attacking a stack will not remove your fortification bonus, as you haven't actually moved the unit out of the square)

Keep in mind your fortification bonus, though. I like to have at least two units in any defensive position. One is the natural defender, and will get terrain-defense promotions and retain its 25% fortification bonus. The other is my sortie unit, and will get Combat promotions as well as Mobility (so that you can pull him back in right away). This way, the natural defender will get the XP for the many barbs that will throw themselves on him, and the attacking unit will get XP for picking off anyone that gets close.

As for when do you attack?... Well, it depends on how lucky you feel, and how many units you have available. I have yet to lose a unit to a percentage higher than 99.4%, so I have made 99.5% my cut-off when I simply do not want to lose the unit (except when it comes to heroes - I don't like to go below 99.7% for them).

Did you know that you get more XP for attacking than defending? I'm an XP hog so I make sure I attack whenever it's safe.

One last thing for sharing the XP love: as someone else has mentioned (somewhere in this sub-forum), it really pays to have replacement units ready to ship to the front lines. I use this not only to save/relieve injured units, but to give newly-created units a chance at getting battle-hardened themselves.


- Niilo
 
Unser Giftzwerg said:
Thanks, that's kinda what I was worried about.

Right now on Emperor/Epic, I reach the endgame with at least a third of the tree left. Sounds like the exact same thing I'm gonna see if a Huge map makes a difference next.

So many parameters, variables. :confused:
I agree. It's very hard to find that happy medium where you have a challenging game throughout the entire tech-tree. Personally, I really don't like zooming through the techs to the point where units are outdated before you even get to use them (my biggest pet peeve in this sense was in Vanilla Civ, when I'd send out my army just to have them obsolete half-way to their target).

But, as mentioned, longer games mean the end-game is that much more tedious. In fact, with FfH II, I haven't yet played to the official end of any of my Marathon games. My current Emporer game is close, though - I'm still less than half the points of the game's leading Civ and I recently built Eurabatres the Gold Dragon *drool*

However, even in this game, it appears that I'll be able to steadily and surely claw myself to the top well before the end (I've still got over 1000 turns left).

In Civ III, I played with the difficulty settings in the editor, mixing and matching various parameters, until I got close to something that I was happy with. I haven't yet tried that with Civ IV (too much cool stuff in FfH that I haven't yet touched) - has anyone done something similar?

When it comes down to it, we need better AI. It's pretty sad when you can dominate an invading force that grossly out-techs you. I'm really eager to see what the FfH team does in this area.

- Niilo
 
Bad Player said:
Just reminded me - has the elder council disappeared from FFH2? I was playing calabim and couldn't build it! (or is it civ related?)
It's civ related.
 
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