Getting Started
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
I don't know if this has been discussed somewhere else and not sure if it is even possible?? Has anyone thought of reducing range attack damage % if over one hex away. ie..
1 Hex = 100% range attack
2 Hex's = 75% range attack
3 Hex's = 50% range attack
1 Hex = 100% range attack
2 Hex's = 75% range attack
3 Hex's = 50% range attack
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
supermanny22 identified the city development mod bugs, there were some errors when I converted the new-building Baths into a modified-Maximus version.
@Txurce
Yeah, I'm uncertain what to do about horseman/swordsman.
The thing is, both horsemen and the siege promotion had issues, and by buffing the siege promotion you can nerf horsemen (since it's blocked from mounted units). The issue of the siege promotion's weakness compared to alternatives was not addressed. Decreasing horseman strength -15%, -33% vs cities, AND fixing the siege promotion is cumulatively a massive nerf. My instinct is to drop the first nerf while keeping the anti-city nerfs.
@bobbyboy29
I agree. It seems the route they're taking when one choice is overpowered compared to alternatives is to remove the decision entirely (promotion saving, policy saving, early specialists, tech beelines) rather than improving options. I feel somewhat unsettled about it. The problem with libraries wasn't really the specialists, but the fact lightbulbing is crazily overpowered. Instead of solving the GS problem directly, they restricted specialist AND tech choices (more prereq links). Decision-making was reduced without solving the actual problem.
Most of the patch changes are really good and I agree with completely (like happiness limited by population), but the nerfs to horsemen feel too much, and nerfs to great scientists seem off the mark. They also somewhat fixed unit vs city balance of catapults and trebuchets, but I feel Artillery were a bigger problem.
Here's what I'll likely do:
11
Horsemen.
+1 scientist slot on Libraries.
+1 engineer slot on Watermills.
Perkus's harder free tech mod.
Basically, keep these four things like they were in this mod pre-patch.
@Txurce
Yeah, I'm uncertain what to do about horseman/swordsman.
The thing is, both horsemen and the siege promotion had issues, and by buffing the siege promotion you can nerf horsemen (since it's blocked from mounted units). The issue of the siege promotion's weakness compared to alternatives was not addressed. Decreasing horseman strength -15%, -33% vs cities, AND fixing the siege promotion is cumulatively a massive nerf. My instinct is to drop the first nerf while keeping the anti-city nerfs.
@bobbyboy29
I agree. It seems the route they're taking when one choice is overpowered compared to alternatives is to remove the decision entirely (promotion saving, policy saving, early specialists, tech beelines) rather than improving options. I feel somewhat unsettled about it. The problem with libraries wasn't really the specialists, but the fact lightbulbing is crazily overpowered. Instead of solving the GS problem directly, they restricted specialist AND tech choices (more prereq links). Decision-making was reduced without solving the actual problem.
Most of the patch changes are really good and I agree with completely (like happiness limited by population), but the nerfs to horsemen feel too much, and nerfs to great scientists seem off the mark. They also somewhat fixed unit vs city balance of catapults and trebuchets, but I feel Artillery were a bigger problem.
Here's what I'll likely do:
11
Horsemen.+1 scientist slot on Libraries.
+1 engineer slot on Watermills.
Perkus's harder free tech mod.
Basically, keep these four things like they were in this mod pre-patch.
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
Perkus' harder free tech mod is excellent, it is really the better choice than no early specialists.
I agree with the 4 mentioned changes.
Regarding iron discovery, I really felt it was right to be able to find iron and horses while you're still in the capital-only stage. I really want to have the relevant info to place my cities. Founding 3 cities and then realizing that you have no iron anywhere close is frustrating to me, too much luck involved, too little strategy.
I agree with the 4 mentioned changes.
Regarding iron discovery, I really felt it was right to be able to find iron and horses while you're still in the capital-only stage. I really want to have the relevant info to place my cities. Founding 3 cities and then realizing that you have no iron anywhere close is frustrating to me, too much luck involved, too little strategy.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Yep, that's why I still have iron as a bronze working reveal, it just makes so much more sense from gameplay and realism.
Seek
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,773
While I appreciate Perkus' mod, the median tech qualifier has always felt like a somewhat clumsy design. Alpaca in his Play With Me mod is working on a smooth-functioning beaker amount for GSs (500+n^2 I believe) that would allow for pre-renaissance techs to be one-shotted but later ones only partially researched similar to Civ4.
Unfortunately it will be released in his next update so it isn't available yet, but it's something to keep an eye out for. Maybe we can convince him to release it as a standalone mod!
Unfortunately it will be released in his next update so it isn't available yet, but it's something to keep an eye out for. Maybe we can convince him to release it as a standalone mod!
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Well, there's several options:
- Fixed cap on beakers
- Random tech like research pacts
- Limited, but chosen tech
All three have their disadvantages. The problem with giving beakers is it doesn't do anything to alleviate overpowered early beelines, like civil service or rifling.
- Fixed cap on beakers
- Random tech like research pacts
- Limited, but chosen tech
All three have their disadvantages. The problem with giving beakers is it doesn't do anything to alleviate overpowered early beelines, like civil service or rifling.
Seek
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,773
That's why I think Alpaca's idea is so worthwhile: It avoids all the problems with the methods you listed. Beelines are less feasible because the amount of beakers from GSs is based on the number of techs already researched - it rewards wide, rather than deep, teching. This is assuming the numbers are well balanced of course. Anyway, just wanted to let you know about it, we'll see when he updates the mod.
Txurce
Deity
This approach, if it works as advertised, does seem to lick the problem best.
I agree that a fixed beaker cap, while better than the vanilla game, wouldn't prevent slingshotting.
Limited, but chosen, tech seems designed for more limited slingshotting, if I'm reading it correctly.
Random tech is consistent with the R.A. approach and is intuitively the best (this guy invents that, right in his lifetime), but falls into the "luck" part of the game that I like to minimize.
Perkus' mod is certainly effective enough to do the job until something better comes along.
By the way, while I'm not certain whether discovering iron would be more balanced in IW than BW, I agree that putting it in IW offers more choices, while still forcing choices.
Txurce
Deity
Does Harder Free Tech work post-patch?
I'm assuming it doesn't, since it's not included in the Combined Mod.
I'm assuming it doesn't, since it's not included in the Combined Mod.
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
Even after reinstalling, cleaning all cache-like folders, starting a new game and updating to 1.04.6 dev, I still have the same bug.
Most of the time it seems that only the description/renaming of your buildings is missing (smokehouses are granaries and the pedia entry is missing). When checking the upkeep costs, which should be correct, they show YOUR numbers. On the other hand, the Circus Maximus is completely vanilla, including the vanilla description.
EDIT: Forget it, I now understood the post in the BCD thread. Thought you fixed it in 1.04.6 dev.
Txurce
Deity
What about the Wat's extra slot?
At first blush it seems so OP as to be an oversight.
The only argument for it being balanced would be that the changes to Maritimes nerfed its SA enough to make up for it with the extra slot. From what I've read, the new maritime numbers affect Siam oddly, due to rounding. What I can't tell is whether this actually helps or hurts them. From the response of some of the players at CFC (including Alpaca) the net result puts Siam in its own class.
Is this enough reason to take away the slot?
At first blush it seems so OP as to be an oversight.
The only argument for it being balanced would be that the changes to Maritimes nerfed its SA enough to make up for it with the extra slot. From what I've read, the new maritime numbers affect Siam oddly, due to rounding. What I can't tell is whether this actually helps or hurts them. From the response of some of the players at CFC (including Alpaca) the net result puts Siam in its own class.
Is this enough reason to take away the slot?
Was the latest version 1.04.6 suppose fix these problems? I downloaded the newest version this morning and I'm finding these same bugs in game.
In my first game with the dev version I didn't get a free policy when hit medieval. Utopia still says i need 6 policies though. I know some people reported this in the past, but it seemed to not happen to everyone. Maybe it's just a version issue with my install now.
Txurce
Deity
In the past you get the free policy the turn after entering a new era.
Right, and I didn't get it. If no one else is seeing this, it must just be something with my install.
Txurce
Deity
That's the opposite perspective to my original one, yet it makes a lot of sense to me, again from a fun gameplay perspective.
Txurce
Deity
Has the AI happiness bonus changed on Immortal/Deity? It seems to me as if they are spamming more cities than ever, but I'm still only a small sampling.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@Seek
What my point was is that since Alpaca's method allows instant techs in the early game, jumping ahead to things like CS or Rifling would still be feasible.
@Txurce
I don't know if harder free tech still works or not, I'm focusing on just the parts in this mod for now and haven't tested anything else. I don't know if the happiness bonus has changed, either.
Regarding Siam, he did recieve buffs to his UA and UB, but his UU was nerfed in the global mounted-unit nerf. I might change his UA to 100% maritime (since that's already what it does in non-capital-cities) and remove the UB buff.
The problem is food needs to be stored as a real, not an integer. It wouldn't take much effort to change the data type either since they're intercompatible... just a simple find-replace across all the code.
I noticed a small error in the TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CIRCUS_MAXIMUS_PEDIA entry, corrected it and the CD mod appears to be working now.
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I've updated for 1.0.1.135 compatibility. However, all attempts at updating mods on the mod browser after patch 1.0.1.135 have been denied without explanation. This is very worrysome, I have a post on the 2kgames forums asking about this. Until then, you'll need to get the mods through the CivFanatics download here.
What my point was is that since Alpaca's method allows instant techs in the early game, jumping ahead to things like CS or Rifling would still be feasible.
@Txurce
I don't know if harder free tech still works or not, I'm focusing on just the parts in this mod for now and haven't tested anything else. I don't know if the happiness bonus has changed, either.
Regarding Siam, he did recieve buffs to his UA and UB, but his UU was nerfed in the global mounted-unit nerf. I might change his UA to 100% maritime (since that's already what it does in non-capital-cities) and remove the UB buff.
The problem is food needs to be stored as a real, not an integer. It wouldn't take much effort to change the data type either since they're intercompatible... just a simple find-replace across all the code.
I noticed a small error in the TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CIRCUS_MAXIMUS_PEDIA entry, corrected it and the CD mod appears to be working now.
-----------
I've updated for 1.0.1.135 compatibility. However, all attempts at updating mods on the mod browser after patch 1.0.1.135 have been denied without explanation. This is very worrysome, I have a post on the 2kgames forums asking about this. Until then, you'll need to get the mods through the CivFanatics download here.
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