Um, buddy, lay off the Gundam cartoons. We do not have the technology to build a giant death mech. Not by a long stretch. Modern robotics are too slow and even a slow, lumbering version of this improbable weapon system would have power requirements far beyond anything in production today.
Giant Death Robot in Civ !?
- Thread starter SMA333M
- Start date
Um, buddy, lay off the Gundam cartoons. We do not have the technology to build a giant death mech. Not by a long stretch. Modern robotics are too slow and even a slow, lumbering version of this improbable weapon system would have power requirements far beyond anything in production today.
As you may know, one of the new units in Civ 5 will be a robot unit called "Giant Death Robot" (GDR).
My problem with this is that the game is becoming too SF. I did play Civ 2 where you had a lot of SF things and I enjoyed at that time but I also remember after a while I wanted to have the SF parts of game out of my Civ.
Robots can be really fun in Civ scenarios and mods... but why in the main game !?
I think the GDR will destroy future era combat experience, and that was the part I liked the most in CiV 3 and Civ 4. I like all types of victories and all stuff in Civ but in the end, my favorite part is Conquest and Wars, but not any wars... future era wars, when you have all techs and you can do wars like in real life.
So imagine I invade a country for oilD), I prepare my tactics very well, sending all types of modern units with different promotions for different situations, and when my Modern Armors are ready to step in what I find ? An enemy GDR ! lol. .. it's like I'm invading Aliens. GDR has 150 strenght... I mean come on !
So my idea about it is that, in Custom Game, you should have an option to take GDR out of game if you want to... it;s simple to add and I believe that will make everyone happy. And that way I'm sure I will add it sometimes for extra fun...
A small option that can change the game experience and make everyone happy.
What do you think ?
The game is becoming "too SF?" Really?
Am I the only one who has a problem with maxing out the modern technology tree resulting in your Civ being able to build a ship to go to Alpha Centauri? That's lightyears off (literally!) and yet I could get started on it before I'd even mastered the computer in Civ IV. That is one, and probably the only, thing that Call to Power did better than Civ proper. If you're going to have SF stuff, then at least have lots of SF stuff. Not this "hey, good job mastering space flight, here's the Starship Enterprise to play with" nonsense.
Thyrwyn
Guardian at the Gate
Not likely. The GDR takes 1000 hammers to build - that is 200 more than either the Utopia Project or the Apollo Project. All for something that can a) be destroyed, and b) actually has to move to the battle in order to be useful.
If you can afford to take one city offline long enough to build the GDR, you pretty much have the game in hand; if your opponents can afford to take on city offline long enough to build a GDR, then you are already hosed.
They are prohibitively expensive to build and maintain - I would be willing to bet that the AI will never build one. . . though the designers could have specifically coded Napoleon or Montezuma to build one if given the chance
I honestly cannot imagine a situation in which the AI would justify building a GDR over any other way to invest 1000 hammers.
Perfection
The Great Head.
GDRs are awesome.
aziantuntija
Prince
You are wrong they are not
Option here wouldnt hurt anyone.
EDIT: And it looks like more people really do want the option
I think if there were at least a few more futuristic units and technologies it wouldn't be so bad. As it stands now, it kind of looks a little out of place.
I'd be willing to bet that there will be a futuristic expansion or DLC. Perhaps they are just testing the waters to see how much interest there is.
I'd be willing to bet that there will be a futuristic expansion or DLC. Perhaps they are just testing the waters to see how much interest there is.
Semmel
Large Sid Meiers Collider
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2010
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- 233
The GDR is a tactical weapon. Its not something you build to crush your enemy with brute force. Imagine there are two armies in equal size. The one firing first will win. They destroy some units in the first turn which will give it the upper hand. Now imagine the enemy has dedicated some of its firepower into the GDR. Presumably all your attacks of the first round will go on the GDR. Maybe you are able to take it out, maybe not. Anyways, you have used your firepower of the first round which gives your enemy the first fire advantage.
Plus they are such a big target that a blind man could hit them.
It will be very easy to mod, so no problem. I'll wait and see how the balance is first, though. I have a suspicion that they work as a late game tie-breaker like the howitzers
in Civ II.
Howver, I will change the name. "Giant Death Robot".
The problem with the GDR is that it isn't SF - it's fantasy. I would really enjoy a feasible arsenal of future weaponry.
Oh, and I hope I never become "too mature" to enjoy childish things, but I think you are confusing childhood nostalgia for an objective "coolness". I was already grown up when giant robot cartoons became commonplace, and in my perspective Giant Mechs - Nostalgia = Meh.
aziantuntija
Prince
I agree that there propably should be more these kinds of units and not just GDR, but i also must say that i really would like to see somekind of "No future units" option for those (currently 55.17%) of us who doesnt want to play Civ with transformer units.
I really hope this is the case, at least it would make sence if it would be DLC.
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
Note: I voted against the GDR, despite loving Sci-Fi (and Call to Power 1/2, SMAC etc.). I didn't vote against Sci-Fi, I voted against "impractical suspension-of-disbelief devastator".
Cheers, LT.
Le Sage
Emperor
I didn't know they were that expensive to build. I must say that actually makes me satisfied, because I am all against the inclusion of the Transformers. Now I can rest easier though, knowing that I will only see one or two ever. Maybe I can only heighten the hammers in the XML to 100.000 for building one to never, ever have to lay my eyes on the Transformer.
Enemy soldiers are so astounded by your fielding of such an expensive piece of junk that they fall over laughing, making them easy prey for your array of conventional weapons!
EDIT:
If GDR really is something necessary for balance (no idea why it would be, but whatever) then I support modding it so that it's some sort of future armored unit instead of GDR. It's not clear why it would take up uranium, but whatever. Maybe it's an armored unit that fields tactical nuclear weaponry (since you can shrink fission bombs to fit in 155mm howitzers...), would explain why it's so powerful in combat at least.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
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- 5,516
GDR's (Giant Dumb Robot) cannot be built today, and even if they could, they would not be built because they are not a practical piece of equipment on a battlefield. The expense of making a 'tank' walk wouldn't be worth the cost, especially since an attack helicopter or A-10 Warthog could easily blow the walking hulk of metal off the face of the Earth just as they can anything else that is not properly protected with hordes of SAM's and AA.
Large Targets on the battlefield make Dead Targets on the battlefield. A huge walking slow mass would meet the same doom as anything else, from... say... a relatively cheap land mine.
Infantry $40,000 anti-tank weapons would make short work of the dumb slow walker at the outrageous cost of tens of millions of dollars to the GDR (likely more in the range of hundreds of millions for a combat vehicle).
It's science fiction for a reason, it's not practical or realistic... they would have been better off giving the game a realistic piece of military equipment that is available or on the drawing boards. This is like introducing the T-800 Terminator as a future unit in the game, and then someone saying it's possible to build them today.
Large Targets on the battlefield make Dead Targets on the battlefield. A huge walking slow mass would meet the same doom as anything else, from... say... a relatively cheap land mine.
Infantry $40,000 anti-tank weapons would make short work of the dumb slow walker at the outrageous cost of tens of millions of dollars to the GDR (likely more in the range of hundreds of millions for a combat vehicle).
It's science fiction for a reason, it's not practical or realistic... they would have been better off giving the game a realistic piece of military equipment that is available or on the drawing boards. This is like introducing the T-800 Terminator as a future unit in the game, and then someone saying it's possible to build them today.
Nah, a T-800 is at least feasible (human shape works at human sizes), albeit unlikely to be cost-effective (especially when compared to infantry). It would be more like introducing one of those wierdo HK's or the Terminatorverse plasma-weapons.
tom2050
Deity
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A T-800 Terminator is feasible to build by people today? That just made my day.
A self-aware part-man part-machine hyper alloy constuction with living flesh on top and ability to learn, able to run for 120 years with it's 'battery powersource'; an endoskeleton actuated by hydraulic servomechanisms giving super strength.
Well, why don't you give it a shot? We'll all watch and see how it goes. Have people's views of reality really become that confused with fantasy to the point that people think Terminator's can really be built as they are seen in the movies?
A T-800 Terminator is feasible to build by people today? That just made my day.
A self-aware part-man part-machine hyper alloy constuction with living flesh on top and ability to learn, able to run for 120 years with it's 'battery powersource'; an endoskeleton actuated by hydraulic servomechanisms giving super strength.
Well, why don't you give it a shot? We'll all watch and see how it goes. Have people's views of reality really become that disconnected from fantasy to the point that people think Terminator's can really be built as they are seen in the movies?
Don't mock.. some of my closest friends are T-800's
Please we could easily build a GDR, not a fusion powered one with laser cannons (even though laser technology can be used as a weapon now, it requires vast space and power to do so) and kung fu punch.
I mean a Big Robot with guns on it, nothing sci-fi'y, the only reason Civ went with the sci-fi version is because... its looks super cool?, as for a real life version, well obviously a smaller robot would have it uses, but a larger one would be fine too, however if you make them big enough to squash tanks underfoot then your going to have problems with such an upscale version, but I'm thinking more for a human or a bit larger size support robot, with heavy machine guns and rockets, bipedal wouldnt be my first choice, but that doesnt mean its impossible to make, Azimo is an impressive bipedal human sized robot.
Looks like you spoke to soon
.
Edit:/ Wait, WTH, the poll question was not how I first read it, I read it " do you wan't the GDR in the game" not "do you want the option to turn them off", who gets the award for the least obvious transfer of meaning, or maybe I was just tired,
So anyway -1 for yes and +1 for no.
And looks like I spoke too soon.
I mean a Big Robot with guns on it, nothing sci-fi'y, the only reason Civ went with the sci-fi version is because... its looks super cool?, as for a real life version, well obviously a smaller robot would have it uses, but a larger one would be fine too, however if you make them big enough to squash tanks underfoot then your going to have problems with such an upscale version, but I'm thinking more for a human or a bit larger size support robot, with heavy machine guns and rockets, bipedal wouldnt be my first choice, but that doesnt mean its impossible to make, Azimo is an impressive bipedal human sized robot.
Looks like you spoke to soon
.Edit:/ Wait, WTH, the poll question was not how I first read it, I read it " do you wan't the GDR in the game" not "do you want the option to turn them off", who gets the award for the least obvious transfer of meaning, or maybe I was just tired,
So anyway -1 for yes and +1 for no.
And looks like I spoke too soon
.
tom2050
Deity
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- Oct 12, 2005
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- 5,516
Do you have any idea of how warfare works at all? A Combat capable GDR capable of surviving is not possible today, is not practical and would not be cost-effective or practical in the future.
First, a mobile biped capable of even getting into the combat zone in a reasonable amount of time is not possible. The tech is not there to let the thing go faster than the speed of a slow march. And when in battle, large targets = dead targets. There is a reason why tank designs often use sloped armor and low profiles. A 30 foot high robot and that can barely move faster than 10 mph would be dead quicker than lager turns to pee.
If it's not a biped, what is it? If biped is not your first choice, then it's not a GDR. Do you think the tank will sit there and wait for the 10 mph robot to walk up and step on it. That would be bad for the GDR, because it would just lose balance and fall over. Hell, with today's tech, it would probably trip over a log and be out of action. A trip wire would bring the thing down.
You are thinking Star Trek, Terminator and Avatar worlds here, not real life.
If it stepped in a pothole, out of action. A large rock, out of action. A deep puddle, out of action. The country would be better off burning the 500 million dollars for warmth than making a walking combat robot.
A T-800 Terminator is feasible to build by people today? That just made my day.
No, I'm saying that someone thinking a T-800 could be built today isn't even in the same league as someone saying that a GDR could be built today, since one is at least mostly-possible in the plausible mid-future, while the other is fueled by pixie dust and won't be plausible in a million billion years. It's the difference between someone saying we could build a rocket to take a probe Alpha Centari and someone saying we could build a hyperdrive to take us there. One of those is possible even if we can't do it today, and the other is completely ridiculous.
The only really stupid part about a T-800 is the 120 year fuel thing, which never happened anyway since Terminator 3 was just a bad dream and the series really ended with T2.
Psyringe
Scout
I know you didn't address me, but as a long-time Star Trek fan, I just have to intervene and state that linking Star Trek to Battlemechs is an insult to the franchise. Actually, Star Trek was one of the franchises that actually tried to preserve some "hard science" roots. If you've ever seen some nerdish looking people brooding over the official technical manuals that got relase, and debating energy levels and quantum physics, you'll know what I mean.
(Yes, they do use a lot of nonsensical technobabble to save the day, but they at least tried to have some technical believability in their designs.)Battlemechs are just a "woah, gant robot, cooool" thing that threw any technical plausibility and believability readily out of the window for the coolness effect.
