Giant Death Robot in Civ !?

[12agnar0k]

A Combat capable GDR capable of surviving is not possible today, is not practical and would not be cost-effective or practical in the future.

If it's not a biped, what is it?

I did not say it would be effective, or practical, or cost-effective or even would survive if shot at. The arguement was that people were saying a "GDR" was impossible and purely Sci-Fi which is not ture.

I said my first thought wouldn't be to make a bi-pedal combat robot, tanks after all are much more effective, the wheel was a great invention by man to travel faster than legs, I see no reason to go back on this, however the tracked combat vehicle could have say 6 legs to walk if the tracks stopped allowing your support vehicle to travel onwards, in some of the harsher terrain.
If I was to make a robotic high tech new war machine, it certainly wouldn't be a GDR. That is what I'm saying, but to say it can't be built is not true.

 

[r_rolo1]

Yup, the only military propose that a GDR could have would be to pin down giant lizards barring that ... ok, not bipedal, but it would (not) work as well

 

[CurseUppl]

*snip*

Despite the wall of text, I found it a good read.

Yes, it would be nice if the Japs would stop beating the mecha horse to death and actually introduce proper military units like tanks.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one semi-reasonable mecha anime and that's Blue Gender where the mechs are simply upscaled versions of powered armour, 3-4 metres tall.

Concerning possibly building a T-800 or even a GDR in the present, I wouldn't underestimate the resources and scientific knowledge of a developed nation with the single minded goal to build one.

Sure, it would cost billions, maybe trillions, but it can be done, although I'll remain sceptical about the practically of such a machine.

You have to understand that the everyday technology we have access to is a far cry from the cutting edge technology employed by multi-billion dollar corporations, scientific institutions and goverments.

 

[adam_grif]

Actually, Star Trek was one of the franchises that actually tried to preserve some "hard science" roots.

Dude, no.

Half of everything post ToS happens "because of quantum", and nearly everything that occurs in the franchise is a total impossibility. The script-writers from TNG onwards would simply insert "tech" into the scripts, and then they had had people who would come in and edit the scripts to put some technobabble into them.

So it would be written as follows:

"Captain, the tech is overteching!"

"Deploy the tech!"

"It's no good. We've got no time!"

"Captain, if I may say something."

"What is it Data?"

"There is a theory that if we tech the tech, then the tech will untech the tech."

"Make it so."

... and so on and so forth. Then post-edit, it would end up saying something like "we need to reverse the polarity of the sub-space field emitters to generate an inverse tachyon pulse to repair a whole in the antitime".

 

[tom2050]

Well, technically anything can be built.. but I was speaking in the "Implied" context of the GDR able to be built that is effective in combat.

Sure, a biped or 4 leg walker could be made with a gun on top; but in direct combat it would have 0% chance of survival against even the average under-gunned infantry troop; as well as being completely ineffective in any type of attack due to extremely slow walking speed, trouble navigating any terrain other than flat surfaces, and the problem of having to completely stop in order to fire a large calibre cannon to keep balance (unless gun can 100% counter all re-coil).

Even if a country spent billions and trillions to build a combat effective one (fire 120mm cannon on the run, keep good speed 50 km/hr); losing them would essentially 'break' the country's ability to replace it because they would not be able to afford many more of them. A walker's legs (and multitude of moving parts = BAD) are obvious undefendable points compared to the tank, which armor can be sloped for increased protection and has low profile. A large machinegun would likely put it out of action with leg hits.

 

[Aro]

People can and will mod in many game options, but what is the problem with some of them coming standard with the game? I've only played 3 and 4, but we've had LOTS of standard options included that changed the game design. Some barely effected play while some more drastically: no goody huts, no random seed on reload, OCC, no vassal states, permanent alliances, no tech trading, no tech brokering, no barbarians, raging barbarians, no random events, turn off space race/domination victory/ conquest victory/diplomatic victory/time victory, and the option to turn on the actual leader unit that had to be killed for the civ to be eliminated in 3 (to name a few). Why not a simple "Turn off GDR's" option?

I hope so... A "turn off GDR's" option.

 

[Ondskan]

I feel they should add a bit more future weapons to match the GDR. But, no, I don't see the point of having a game option of removing something designed to be a part of the game. That's what modding is for.

No modding is not to fix balancing issues created b y the developers. Get that stuff out of your head you little oblivion junkie. (Yes it all started with the epic failure known as Oblivion).


I think it should be possiible to turn off if it gives to big of an advantage, ofcourse.

 

[Ondskan]

Wait 55 people voted NOT to have the OPTION to remove it from each game? How stupid do you have to be not to want the OPTION...wow. *Facepalm*

 

[r_rolo1]

I find it hard to beleive that GDR actually are really a part of the game, atleast in terms of balance. They remind me too much of those hyper-mega-ultra tanks ( sorry, but how can we talk of GDR without some hyperbolic and needless prefixation? ) of BtS next war mod: almost a easter egg, since you would actually be better doing other less flashy stuff with those hammers, their limited number and the tech level you needed to get to build those.

In other words, they are there just for the show: if you can build a sizable number of them, most likely you could had won some centuries ago And if it is like that, I could definitely live with a option to turn them off.

 

[allypower]

Do you need an option to add/remove for each unit in the game? No.
Do you need an option to add/remove for each tech in the game? No.
Do you need an option to add/remove for each city state in the game? No.

GDR will be in the original game whether you, I or anyone want it or not.
There will be no official UI option to remove it whether you, I or anyone want it or not.

That's the job for modders.

So deal with it, or mod it. Or just don't play the game.

 

[tom2050]

They would have been better off including realistic modern warfare units such as stealth naval vessels, unmanned aerial vehicles, and 4th generation tanks with 100km/h speeds and electrothermalchemical main guns.

At least you would then still feel like you are in 'today's world' and not on Hoth attacking the rebel scum.

Does the GDR use phasors also? Or mass drivers?

 

[adam_grif]

A large machinegun would likely put it out of action with leg hits.

I'm struggling to think of ways you could effectively armor a leg-joint such that it would withstand assault rifle fire. You shouldn't even need a heavy machinegun, and IED's are going to put them out of commission for sure.

Yes, it would be nice if the Japs would stop beating the mecha horse to death and actually introduce proper military units like tanks.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one semi-reasonable mecha anime and that's Blue Gender where the mechs are simply upscaled versions of powered armour, 3-4 metres tall.

I don't know it's name, but there is at least one series where the mechs don't go any further than about 2.5 meters high. Some anime (even some of the gundamns, iirc) do feature tanks that are highly effective in combat.

But it really is a pervading trope that comes nearly exclusively from Japan.

As an additional note, there is an obvious niche where humanoid robots have the potential to be highly effective, and that is in the same role regular infantry are in today. Powered armor is the simplest form of this, but remote-piloted robots the same size as a human will give you the ability to traverse buildings and ride in vehicles like normal infantry.

The obvious advantages are heavier load-bearing capacity, the fact that when it gets blown up, and you don't lose an experienced solider (and can redeploy the soldier to the field as soon as a replacement robot is shipped). Increased load-bearing implies heavier armor, as well as more potent weapons with more ammunition for them.

The obvious disadvantage is that they will inevitably be highly expensive (although perhaps not considerably more expensive than powered armor, since it is essentially PA without a pilot taking up space inside it), and that even with thicker armor, it will still get mobility-killed by shots to knee joints and the such, and it's not really plausible to armor such a robot against grenades or explosives.

That said, facing down an army of robots that you can never really kill that are inflicting disproportionate casualties on your own forces has got to be bad for morale


Generally speaking, a good rule-of-thumb for determining whether a humanoid robot would be militarily useful is whether it can fit inside buildings or not. If it can (<2 meters high), then it can take cover in buildings, traverse them, and so on. If it can't, then it's forced to be outside all the time, and is unable to take advantage of most cover (which is generally shorter than an average human).

So if they can go inside buildings, they face down infantry, who they can be reasonably expected to triumph against in many cases, but if they're forced out-doors, then they're forced to face down tanks and IFV's, which are armed with 20mm cannons on the low-end, and will thus completely obliterate you.

 

[r_rolo1]

Does the GDR use phasors also? Or mass drivers?

There is a pic of them fighting in a review maybe 2 weeks ago. They were using missiles ...

 

[Ondskan]

Do you need an option to add/remove for each unit in the game? No.
Do you need an option to add/remove for each tech in the game? No.
Do you need an option to add/remove for each city state in the game? No.

GDR will be in the original game whether you, I or anyone want it or not.
There will be no official UI option to remove it whether you, I or anyone want it or not.

That's the job for modders.

So deal with it, or mod it. Or just don't play the game.

lol I love people who say "deal with it or dont play it". Moderator Action: *snip* no flaming here. . If every part of the discussion forum was filled with people like you there wouldnt be any feedback, any improvements or a discussion forum to begin with.


An an option to turn off an easter-egg like super robot thing that crushes everything in its path and can go back and repair/heal as soon as it gets wounded sure needs a turn off button.

 

[Psyringe]

Dude, no.

Half of everything post ToS happens "because of quantum", and nearly everything that occurs in the franchise is a total impossibility. The script-writers from TNG onwards would simply insert "tech" into the scripts, and then they had had people who would come in and edit the scripts to put some technobabble into them.

I said "tried to preserve some 'hard science' roots". I didn't claim that they were successful on all levels or tried to rival Isaac Asimov or Greg Bear. You're correct about the script writers, but I had more the authors of the technical manuals in mind. What I'm saying is that Star Trek did have more roots in hard science than the whole Mecha thing. Although I understand that for a fan of real "hard SF", they may both look equally flimsy.

Anyway, we're going off topic, and I'm not even a huge Trek fan (though I appreciate TNG very much).

 

[12agnar0k]

There is a pic of them fighting in a review maybe 2 weeks ago. They were using missiles ...

But a laser too, dont worry .

 

[allypower]

GDR is not an easter egg, so just like any units in the game there shouldn't be an option to single it out.

 

[r_rolo1]

@12agnar0k

My point is that, if you want to launch missiles to attack land units, why use a GDR when even XX century technology could do that pretty well with helicopters ( US Cobra or Apache , just for the ones that come first in my head ) ? Not mentioning that GDR that uses missiles ( and lasers ) as it's primary weapon has little need for arms ...

@allypower

A unit with 3x the strength of it's known possible better counter does not seem to be bundled with the rest of the game in terms of balance. It is the exact equivalent of droping a 120 str unit in Civ IV... if it is not a easter egg loosely bundled in the game, it is a awful game design Choose what one you prefer ....

 

[Psyringe]

@12agnar0k

My point is that, if you want to launch missiles to attack land units, why use a GDR when even XX century technology could do that pretty well with helicopters ( US Cobra or Apache , just for the ones that come first in my head ) ? Not mentioning that GDR that uses missiles ( and lasers ) as it's primary weapon has little need for arms ...

But it looks so cooool ...

(is whatever the designers of the unit must have thought).

I'm with you btw in that I'm still skeptical whether the GDR will actually be in game. I still believe that it's just an elaborate hoax. I just showed the official GDR announcement to my spouse (without commenting on it), and she (not a hardcore Civ player) frowned and said "How could that fit in Civ? It would stick out like a sore thumb." It's that obvious even to a casual player of the franchise.

I think it's a botch-up on several levels:
- Some players (not me) don't like futuristic units at all
- Some players would like to see such units, but believable ones instead of units that make no sense
- The method of presentation ("woah, look here, great big badass unit and we'll reveal it for ya, cool huh?" - not an actual quote, but fits the presentation) contributed to the disgust.

As I said, I'm still hoping it was a hoax.

 

[spaztek]

I voted no, reasons why are already mentioned in this thread.

I do sincerely hope that it is a rarity. If these show up in mass quantity, I see it as a gamebreaker.

EDIT:

I just realized that I voted no, when I meant yes.

This question is kinda flawed.