Giant Death Robot in Civ !?

[r_rolo1]

Firaxis has managed to create 4 excellent versions of Civ. You might even say they know what they're doing. Maybe, just maybe, wait and see how it plays before declaring that the sky is falling.

Your faith in Firaxis in laudable, but not deserved. It would not be the first time that they would introduce a "Cool !!!!" feature that unbalanced seriously the game due to less than perfect testing ... BtS Apostolic palace comes to mind.

So, as you are talking of 99% speculation ( I agree with speculation, not with the % ), let's put what we know on the table:

GDR has 150 str, 3 moves and a penalty attacking cities ( information taken from Firaxis Civ V site ). The closest thing on land that we know about is the modern armor , with 50 str and 4 moves. The real deciding factor in here ( if we don't get to air power ... I surely expect that air power being even more proeminent in later wars than it was in civ IV ) is the hammer count of both units: if the hammer count of GDR it too low, Civ V will look like you regular mecha anime, if it is too high the GDR will appear so little times it can be considered a easter egg.

Only in a limited area the GDR could even be considered as something that can add to balance ... and even there it is hard to see now how it can add to balance being 3x stronger than any known counter. And Firaxis has a long story of droping unbalanced units ( for both sides, underpowered or overpowered ) in their games

 

[aziantuntija]

It was rare the month in the Civ IV forums that didn't had atleast one people asking for some option for limiting the tech age of the game ( especially to limit it to the medieval age top ) in the same way you could chose the era you started... if you could simply say that you didn't wanted to tech above a certain point, the GDR option issue could be erased fast.

Simple ,neat , with little potential for controversy ( IMHO ): simply give give us a option to chose the upper limit of the techs we need to get, in the same way we can decide the lower limit.

I agree

If you don't want GDR in the game, don't build it. The chances of the AIs building it is probably pretty small.

So we dont ever see them but...

BTW. The GDR was added for game balancing purposes. They decided they needed a more powerful late game assault type unit. Since you already had tank and modern armour, GDRs are less clumsy than "future armor" or something like that.

...they are important for balance?......

Well, you asked if I would find it useful. I wouldn't.

So technicly you are not necessarily against this option, you just dont find this option very useful. Thats fine with me.

1. Valuable programming time that could have been better spent.

Just how many man hours do you thinkl it takes to make this option?

 

[Perfection]

...they are important for balance?......

That's the story.

Just how many man hours do you thinkl it takes to make this option?

Quite a few for such a late stage thing.

 

[r_rolo1]

But definitely less than the ones needed to insert the unit in the game In fact, if things are as they were in civ IV, it would be a matter of some hours top , and most of them would be compiling ( so , no actual human presence would be needed )

 

[Perfection]

But definitely less than the ones needed to insert the unit in the game

Sure, but it's releasing in a month. Not a lto of time for changes.

In fact, if things are as they were in civ IV, it would be a matter of some hours top , and most of them would be compiling ( so , no actual human presence would be needed )

Making a change isn't just making a change. You have to decide to make the change, figure out how exactly to implement the change, then test the change (and of course something will be screwed up). Right now they're scrambling to make release date. I'd rather they focus on bugfixes and testing and make a good solid game.

 

[aziantuntija]

That's the story.

Ok so lets make this finally perfectly clear:

If you don't want GDR in the game, don't build it. The chances of the AIs building it is probably pretty small.

So nobody ever really builds one but as you say it:

BTW. The GDR was added for game balancing purposes. They decided they needed a more powerful late game assault type unit. Since you already had tank and modern armour, GDRs are less clumsy than "future armor" or something like that.

They are important for balance.

So they are in the game for balance but nobody ever really builds them. That makes sence like a.. ..well like a GDR in a civ game

 

[cr0ws]

Well that settles it, I'm getting civ 5 just to get my hands on the Great Death Robot.

 

[aziantuntija]

Just for the GDR? Thats just sad cr0ws

 

[r_rolo1]

Making a change isn't just making a change. You have to decide to make the change, figure out how exactly to implement the change, then test the change (and of course something will be screwed up). Right now they're scrambling to make release date. I'd rather they focus on bugfixes and testing and make a good solid game.

All true. But is is not as firaxis is shy of dropping untested ( or very little tested ) features... just in civ IV : no espionage ( still broken, BTW ), Apostolic palace ( still broken, BTW ), vassals in general ( still broken, BTW ), diplomatic win rules, hammer overflow mechanics ( still broken, BTW )...

Sure, I prefer that they are doing what you are saying Just stating that they wouldn't be above releasing a option like the asked one in the game now or in a 0 day patch.

 

[stealth_nsk]

For me it's very simple.
1. If you don't like GDR, there will be mods replacing it with something else, or just disabling. Very soon after release.
2. GDR is important for balance with the new resource system, because it requires uranium.
I don't really care how "realistic" it is.

 

[Perfection]

Ok so lets make this finally perfectly clear:

So nobody ever really builds one but as you say it:

They are important for balance.

So they are in the game for balance but nobody ever really builds them. That makes sence like a.. ..well like a GDR in a civ game

I presume Zhahz is incorrect.

Just for the GDR? Thats just sad cr0ws

I'm getting Civ V (and the $100 collector's edition), pretty much because of GDRs too.

All true. But is is not as firaxis is shy of dropping untested ( or very little tested ) features... just in civ IV : no espionage ( still broken, BTW ), Apostolic palace ( still broken, BTW ), vassals in general ( still broken, BTW ), diplomatic win rules, hammer overflow mechanics ( still broken, BTW )...

Sure, I prefer that they are doing what you are saying Just stating that they wouldn't be above releasing a option like the asked one in the game now or in a 0 day patch.

Well, I can't talk much abotu Civ 4 (I've barely played it), but from what I've seen most people don't consider those features broken.

 

[adam_grif]

2. GDR is important for balance with the new resource system, because it requires uranium.
I don't really care how "realistic" it is.

The game is ballanced before GDR right? So why wouldn't it be ballanced after GDR becomes available if you took it out? What fundamental aspect of the game changes when you research fusion that means that prior to it, GDR wasn't needed for balanced gameplay, but after it, it suddenly was?

 

[Tarkhan]

- I dont think GDR will be overpowered against modern age military. It's not going to crush armies or devour cities, and I expect it will have a weakness.
- Uranium limits it's use.
- It appears so late in the game that if you're going for conquest you probably are already winning, and it'll speed up the process.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The game is ballanced before GDR right? So why wouldn't it be ballanced after GDR becomes available if you took it out? What fundamental aspect of the game changes when you research fusion that means that prior to it, GDR wasn't needed for balanced gameplay, but after it, it suddenly was?

New resource system and new diplomacy system. It's suggested what diplomatic penalties for nuclear weapons only affect city-states relations. So to limit nuclear warfare and provide more strategic choices, you need a unit, which:
- Consume uranium, being direct competitor to nukes.
- Do the same role of breaking enemy lines.
- Is cool as hell.
So that's GDR.

 

[adam_grif]

New resource system and new diplomacy system. It's suggested what diplomatic penalties for nuclear weapons only affect city-states relations. So to limit nuclear warfare and provide more strategic choices, you need a unit, which:
- Consume uranium, being direct competitor to nukes.
- Do the same role of breaking enemy lines.
- Is cool as hell.
So that's GDR.

You basically just said that the game is unbalanced before the GDR hits, because atomic weapons come way before Fusion.

Also, "cool as hell" is mega-subjective, to me and many others it looks extremely stupid.

 

[City Raider]

I'm not sure why having GDR is such an issue. It seems to me many games are decided long before the modern military units come on-line. I mean I can't remember the last time I needed even Modern Armor to pull out a win because I didn't have the ability to fight with an earlier unit. In my military games most of my damage is done with an early rush then cannon/rifles or if late inf/art/tanks. By the time I'd even get to Modern armor it was more of mop up duty. Even in space race, I'm not even getting stealth till extremely late if at all, so I'm not even building stealth bombers. Culture wins can easily be done before even getting to regular tanks.

I do like GDR, but I really don't know how much use they are going to get from game to game. Are people really involved in a lot of late game wars with the AI that can go either way?

I don't think it is going to be a good strategy to stand pat all game and wait for the decisive strength adv of the GDR before going to war or trying to win dom/conquest.

 

[aziantuntija]

I presume Zhahz is incorrect.

So Zhahz is wrong but you are right, right?

BTW. The GDR was added for game balancing purposes. They decided they needed a more powerful late game assault type unit.

So they decided they needed a more powerful late game assault type unit? Ok i can understand that, but why in the hell does it have to be a Giant Death Robot? Why not something like "Future Armor"?

Since you already had tank and modern armour, GDRs are less clumsy than "future armor" or something like that.

Yeah right..

I'm getting Civ V (and the $100 collector's edition), pretty much because of GDRs too.

Thats great.. ..i suppose

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Also the GDR does not consume Aluminum... the only modern unit that does.

So what it does is provide a military bonus to those that pursue tech. If you just stop your tech at modern armor and stealth bombers, you may be facing someone who has modern armor, stealth bombers and GDRs

 

[aziantuntija]

Also the GDR does not consume Aluminum... the only modern unit that does.

Well they could of done something like "Future Armour" wich also doesnt consume aluminium..

 

[bjbrains]

Well they could of done something like "Future Armour" wich also doesnt consume aluminium..

They could have also named it "Evil Space Duck". It's not really important.

Also, "future armor" is horribly generic and boring.