GiantMap Is Slow in end game want to make it fast

[yehozz]

As the topic says so does my giant map run very slow when I have come into the game. Me and my dad love to play civilization 4 with large maps and many countries. to bad it becomes difficult when we have to sit and wait between each turn of longer and longer periods of time, the more we get into the game. So my question is what can I do to make the game faster? I have heard that Civilization can only run on one core. Right now I'm on an AMD 1055T at 2.8 GHz on each core, my dad has an AMD 3.2 GHz on each core. Would the game go much faster if we both purchased Intel ® Core i5-3570K That has 3.4 Ghz and could easly be pushed up to above 4.0 Ghz? I have heard That Intel has much better performance? is this true When it comes to Civilization will it make a diffrent whit an Intel 4.0 Ghz then a AMD 4.0 GHZ?

Thanks for answer!

 

[yehozz]

Noone knows?

 

[kiwitt]

Problem is the larger the map that more the AI needs to do behind the scenes.

 

[jarhead_leif]

Problem is the larger the map that more the AI needs to do behind the scenes.

He's right, you need lots and lots RAM and better GPU and processor to run your game smoothly..

 

[yehozz]

He's right, you need lots and lots RAM and better GPU and processor to run your game smoothly..

Well i already have 8 GB ram whit 1333MHZ , My grapich is HD 5850 whit 2GB
My father has 4GB whit 1066MHZ or someting and hes grapich is HD 5830.

So do i really need to update my Ram? will it make a diffrent when i already have so much? and should my father update the amount of GB or get higher MHZ on them? also would he need a better grapich card? So what would i update to make a diffrence? i mean wouldent the I5 Intel proccess really make a big diffrence for us? Thanks

 

[Padjur]

Well i already have 8 GB ram whit 1333MHZ , My grapich is HD 5850 whit 2GB
My father has 4GB whit 1066MHZ or someting and hes grapich is HD 5830.

So do i really need to update my Ram? will it make a diffrent when i already have so much? and should my father update the amount of GB or get higher MHZ on them? also would he need a better grapich card? So what would i update to make a diffrence? i mean wouldent the I5 Intel proccess really make a big diffrence for us? Thanks

Firstly your machine, it should be fine, perhaps not the best processor for gaming but if you want to switch to Intel you'll have to buy a new motherboard which has a socket that supports it. before you abandon what you have what operating system are you running and is it 32bit or 64bit?
As far as your dads machine is concerned, consider upgrading the RAM to 8GB at 1333MHz and same question though what OS is he running.
Is the RAM DDR3?
What motherboards are you using, a computer is only ever as good as the motherboard.
Consider Phenom II X4's which are faster for gaming and use the same socket, saving you a motherboard upgrade and considerable expense.
Also consider this fact, there are always bottlenecks in every system that slow you up,
the most common area is the hard drive, there is a lot to think about and check before rushing out and buying a new processor that may prove expensive and may not achieve the speed you want.

 

[yehozz]

Firstly your machine, it should be fine, perhaps not the best processor for gaming but if you want to switch to Intel you'll have to buy a new motherboard which has a socket that supports it. before you abandon what you have what operating system are you running and is it 32bit or 64bit?
As far as your dads machine is concerned, consider upgrading the RAM to 8GB at 1333MHz and same question though what OS is he running.
Is the RAM DDR3?
What motherboards are you using, a computer is only ever as good as the motherboard.
Consider Phenom II X4's which are faster for gaming and use the same socket, saving you a motherboard upgrade and considerable expense.
Also consider this fact, there are always bottlenecks in every system that slow you up,
the most common area is the hard drive, there is a lot to think about and check before rushing out and buying a new processor that may prove expensive and may not achieve the speed you want.

Thank you for your answering!

Yes i know i need a new motherboard, i allways wanted to change from AMD to Intel, i like Intel more so that would not be a problem, at this moment both me and my dad runs Windows 7 64 Bits.

I have this rams - Kingston DDR3 HyperX 1333MHz 8GB
My dad have this ones - Kingston DDR2 HyperX PC8500 4GB 1066Mhz

Motherboards is this ones
Dad - ASUS M4A78-E, Socket-AM2+/AM3
Me - MSI 870A Fuzion, Socket-AM3


If you have any other proccessors that would be AMD and fit my motherboard please suggest them! But i would like to really have it to improve my computer before i would buy it.

 

[yehozz]

Another question to you Padjur, Does AM3+ Sockets Fits on my motherboards?

 

[mintegar]

I don't know of anyone who made specific benchmarks for civ4 recently, but if it's anything like other games then yes, recent intel cpu will be much faster.
I don't think it makes sense to upgrade to another phenom which will run just a few 100 mhz faster, would be hardly noticeable.

 

[Padjur]

Are you multiplaying with these two machines because if you are, especially if your dad's machine is hosting the games it will slow up significantly.
It's this machine that needs more attention than yours because no matter how fast your machine is it will be held up by the slowest machine
and as his board only supports DDR2 memory, the motherboard is your start point, then get 8GB DDR3 memory for it and a new Processor.
Although of course you could build a new machine for yourself, and upgrade your existing machine with a AMD Phenom II X4 955, which i think is a better processor
than the AMD 1055T.

Does AM3+ Sockets Fits on my motherboards?

No it has a AM3 socket.

If you have any other proccessors that would be AMD and fit my motherboard please suggest them! But i would like to really have it to improve my computer before i would buy it.

You need to consider what you want to use the computer for when choosing a Processor, is it for general use, gaming or a specific multithreading environment and how much you want to spend.
For gaming Core i5-3570K can be overclocked easily to 4.5GHz+, or there's the Core i7 3770K.
For AMD there's the FX-8150 which overclocks at 4.7GHz (you'll need a Fx-Board for that), the AMD Phenom II X4 955 (Uses the AM3 socket) offers good value for money especially at stock speeds for general use.
So let us suppose you want the i5, you'll need a motherboard, something decent like the Asus Maximus V gene series of boards for the LGA1155 processors.
You'll need a Power supply that is over 1000 watts, Liquid cooling like the Corsair H100 and a new case to get the most out of the cpu overclocking capabilities
and lets not forget the graphics card, something like one of the GTX 500-series maybe to really make a difference.

 

[mintegar]

existing machine with a AMD Phenom II X4 955, which i think is a better processor
than the AMD 1055T.

Lets see here.. both are phenom-2, same amount of cache.. The only small "benefit" of the 955 in this case is that it has 2 less cores, thus less transistors and you can prob. overclock a little more..
Still not worth it investing money in this *old* processor. If you would go that way, then even if you where really lucky and got one that overclocks 20% you won't gain that much because your performance is also limited by chipset and e.g. memory bandwith.

For AMD there's the FX-8150

The current FX processors are absolutely terrible for gaming, in most cases even worse than Phenom-2. Don't even think about it.

You'll need a Power supply that is over 1000 watts,

No you don't .. would only be true if you run Multi-GPU and also overclock.

 

[yehozz]

Are you multiplaying with these two machines because if you are, especially if your dad's machine is hosting the games it will slow up significantly.
It's this machine that needs more attention than yours because no matter how fast your machine is it will be held up by the slowest machine
and as his board only supports DDR2 memory, the motherboard is your start point, then get 8GB DDR3 memory for it and a new Processor.
Although of course you could build a new machine for yourself, and upgrade your existing machine with a AMD Phenom II X4 955, which i think is a better processor
than the AMD 1055T.
No it has a AM3 socket.
You need to consider what you want to use the computer for when choosing a Processor, is it for general use, gaming or a specific multithreading environment and how much you want to spend.
For gaming Core i5-3570K can be overclocked easily to 4.5GHz+, or there's the Core i7 3770K.
For AMD there's the FX-8150 which overclocks at 4.7GHz (you'll need a Fx-Board for that), the AMD Phenom II X4 955 (Uses the AM3 socket) offers good value for money especially at stock speeds for general use.
So let us suppose you want the i5, you'll need a motherboard, something decent like the Asus Maximus V gene series of boards for the LGA1155 processors.
You'll need a Power supply that is over 1000 watts, Liquid cooling like the Corsair H100 and a new case to get the most out of the cpu overclocking capabilities
and lets not forget the graphics card, something like one of the GTX 500-series maybe to really make a difference.

Well at this moment i have a 750W Supply, so yes i would buy new motherboards for me and my dad, also the same I5 To each of us and also get him some new memorys, Also i would buy a good proccessor fan to our i5 processor so we can easly clock it to a higher value. How much would this improve our game in civ? 50%? or is it much lower values?

 

[Padjur]

How much would this improve our game in civ? 50%? or is it much lower values?

who knows, if you want to spend your money in trying it out do so, I spend every day at work listening to the nonsense below from mintegar,
my point was the AMD Phenom II X4 955 gives more performance with lower power consumption at a lower price than the AMD 1055T,
so it's an option, just because it has fewer cores and is older doesn't mean it is not worthwhile considering and I don't know how much money you have to spend.

Lets see here.. both are phenom-2, same amount of cache.. The only small "benefit" of the 955 in this case is that it has 2 less cores, thus less transistors and you can prob. overclock a little more..
Still not worth it investing money in this *old* processor. If you would go that way, then even if you where really lucky and got one that overclocks 20% you won't gain that much because your performance is also limited by chipset and e.g. memory bandwith.

If I tell you to go out and buy an i5 which is faster it doesn't mean that your problem will be solved, it might but building a computer is more than just a processor, take your time, read up on it, there are plenty of reviews, benchmarks, check the wattage required, review the different motherboards and RAM sticks and you may well build yourself a decent computer. whether it will run CivIV faster or not only time will tell.

 

[mintegar]

Care to explain why you think what i posted is "nonsense"? Please keep the discussion civil here, i don't like beiing flamed for no reason.

AMD Phenom II X4 955 gives more performance with lower power consumption at a lower price than the AMD 1055T

OP already has the 1055T. Cost savings due to reduced power-consumptions would not make up for the expense of shelling out money for the 955 now.

Higher performance? Doubtful http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1055t-overclocking_7.html#sect0

I will admit that i never had a Phenom/Phenom-II system of my own, and my opinion is based on stuff published on review sites.

@OP i don't know of anyone who has published performace benchmarks targeted at civ4 specifically. So it's hard to say for sure how much faster the game would be on modern system. I'd look at benchmarks of new i5/i7 processors, and take some kind of average score and compare that to the average score of older processors. And then estimate from that..

 

[kiwitt]

The real speed issue is the single thread nature of python scripts. Not much can be done about that, and I have a core-i7 and it can takes minutes for a turn to complete.

 

[Padjur]

Care to explain why you think what i posted is "nonsense"? Please keep the discussion civil here, i don't like beiing flamed for no reason.

If anyone is being flamed round here it is me, I have been perfectly civil at all times, and I resent the fact that you are implying that I have not.
It may be you don't agree with this review of the AMD 1055T or this quote from the review

If you work in a multithreading optimized environment like video editing, rendering or some other data manipulation,
Phenom II X6 1055T is the best choice you can make in $200 price range, and you'll get performance of some entry Core i7 models.
General computing users and especially gamers should look the other way, maybe Core i5 750, or the cheaper but faster Phenom II X4s.

and I realise your an Intel man (which are fine processors no doubt) but if you are to criticise my posts you need to keep to the facts and not this is nonsense

performance is also limited by chipset and e.g. memory bandwith.

The current FX processors are absolutely terrible for gaming, in most cases even worse than Phenom-2. Don't even think about it.

Memory bandwidth is on the CPU, it is the same for both processors and is relevant to the memory frequencies of the RAM which for most is 1,333MHz, the dual-channel memory controllers deliver roughly 20GB/s of raw bandwidth therefore 8GB of 1,333MHz would be plenty.
Which has nothing to do with the "chipset" which is on the motherboard and could be any of several different models and manufacturers depending on the motherboard in use.
The FX-8150 may not be the best on the market but it is not "absolutely terrible" and therefore is worth considering, especially as the Asus FX motherboards are extremely good.
Bottom line:I think its nonsense to say that AMD are not good processors, speed is just one part of of the picture and should not be solely used to define what is or is not good.
Ultimately Kiwitt has hit the nail on the head and nothing more need be said.

The real speed issue is the single thread nature of python scripts. Not much can be done about that, and I have a core-i7 and it can takes minutes for a turn to complete.

 

[mintegar]

If anyone is being flamed round here it is me, I have been perfectly civil at all times, and I resent the fact that you are implying that I have not.

Well what i didn't like was that you did make just a short remark without explaining in more detail why you think so. I think i may have done the same in some of my statements. That's because the temptation is there to just be done with it quickly and state the conclusion and leave out the reasoning to save time.

It may be you don't agree with this review of the AMD 1055T

The review seems fine to me.

I realise your an Intel man

Sadly no, have no stocks with them.

or this quote from the review

Well, you so helpfully highlighted the phrase "cheaper but faster". Have you looked into how much faster it is?
The review was written 2+ years ago, and the paragraph you quoted pertains to someone looking to buy a new processor. They where asking: "should i spend 200$ on the 1055, or 150$ on the 955.
When you already got a system with the 1055 now, the question is: Well i could gain maybe 10% in this one single-threaded app.. how much $$$ is it worth it to replace my 6-core with the 4-core. Really i would only recommend trying it if you get the 4-core for very cheap (like < 10$).

If you would go that way, then even if you where really lucky and got one that overclocks 20% you won't gain that much because your performance is also limited by chipset and e.g. memory bandwith.

Memory bandwidth is on the CPU, it is the same for both processors and is relevant to the memory frequencies of the RAM which for most is 1,333MHz, the dual-channel memory controllers deliver roughly 20GB/s of raw bandwidth therefore 8GB of 1,333MHz would be plenty.

Yeah it is the same for both, which is the point i was trying to make. Even if you get some more cpu-cycles by overclocking the 4-core higher, you might just see that you don't gain linearly because memory bandwith limits you.
I say might because i can't proof it without benchmarking directly. But i strongly suspect it because civ4, while doing the AI-turns jumps around in a lot of python code and i don't think that everything fits into cpu-cache there.

Which has nothing to do with the "chipset" which is on the motherboard and could be any of several different models and manufacturers depending on the motherboard in use.

Well i was not directly saying that that memory goes through the chipset. But i see how what i said could be easily understood that way. So mea culpa.. shouldn't have mentioned chipset.

The FX-8150 may not be the best on the market but it is not "absolutely terrible" and therefore is worth considering, especially as the Asus FX motherboards are extremely good.

Most benchmarks i have seen it 1/3 behind. Maybe terrible was too strong a word, but its still pretty bad unless you are running software which is properly multithreated and optimzed to run well on it.

 

[yehozz]

Soo, i wont probebly get much more performance on this game right? why is there no Mod or someting that would make civ 4 run on more then 1 core... i mean the things you could do whit civ 4 whit all cores avaible would be amazing. the waiting betwin turns is very anoying and ruin the fun in the game

 

[kiwitt]

Civ 4 BTS does use multi-cores (as I have observed using my CPU analyzer), however python threads do not.

 

[yehozz]

Civ 4 BTS does use multi-cores (as I have observed using my CPU analyzer), however python threads do not.

So its in the Python that is the problem? why cant this be solved?