Give me some Ideas for priests

[WarKirby]

The other day, I looked at OO priests, and their awesome free Water Walking promotion.

I figure, other religion's priests need things like that too. So I'm modding those in, and will release them with the next version of my minimod.

I need a few ideas though. for Thematically appropriate free promotions.

Things I have planned so far

FoL
-----------
Priest of Leaves
-Woodsman I
-Subdue Animals

High Priest of Leaves
-Woodsman II
-Subdue Beasts

RoK
------------
Stonewarden
-Guerilla I

Runekeeper
-Guerilla II

Empyrean
-----------
Vicar
-Sentry I
-Sentry II

Luridus
-Perfect Sight (I modded it to give +3 visibility)

Octopus Overlords
--------------------
Cultist
-Water Walking
-Mutated

Speaker
-Fear

Order
---------------------
Confessor
-Spirit Guide

Prior


Ashen Veil
----------------------
Ritualist

Profane
-Vile Touch



I need a few ideas, as to what to give to the others. Generally, I'd prefer to use existing promotions, but creating new ones is a possibility if it can be done in xml.

Ideas needed for:

Ritualist
Confessor
Prior

Give me some suggestions.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

balance without parallels? Although you really do need to look at teh priests as a whole. Compare their spells to the spells of other religions, and try to make the whole scope somewhat balanced, thematically appropriate, and useful. Of course the religiongs and their niches need to be considered with all that, so dont use a chart, otherwise your balance will get gimped.

 

[WarKirby]

Balance without parallels is kael's design philosophy.
Personally, I don't think much of that concept at all, and I intend to throw it out of the window when it suits me, because I like parallels. And symmetry.

I'm thinking a free Scourge promo would be quite suitable for ritualists. Any thoughts?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't really think that Ritualists should start with Scourge by defauly, but I do think that Scourge should be available to Disciple units. That would mean Ritualists built in cities with Demons Altars would get the promotion anyway.

In my version Unholy Taint increases the a units spell strength, instead of just giving more xp. It also has a pyPerTurn effect that raises plot counters based on the AC, thus spreading hell.



I've long given my Priests of the Leaves both Woodsman promotions. I may go ahead and give Stonewardens both as well. I've considered giving High Priests of the Leaves Animal Handling.


I'm actually thinking I may remove Water Waling from Cultists, as I'd rather make it a Speaker spell that gives a water walking promotion that can wear off to a stack. I may replace it with something else.



Confessors already have Spirit Guide for free. I'm not sure they need anything else. On the other hand, their spell is fairly weak, so maybe they could use a second bonus promotion. How about Valor? You could give that to Priors instead if you prefer too.


It might be nice for Profanes to start with Spell Extension I, and maybe allow disciple units to buy Spell Extension II if they have this prereq.

 

[WarKirby]

Subdue animal/beast sound like brilliant ideas for FoL priests, too. I'll give Woodsman I and Subdue animal to Priests, and Woodsman II + Subdue Beasts to high priests.

I've been thinking also, Octopus Overlords seems to be the most mind oriented religion. Isn't Insanity a popular theme ?
With that in mind, I'm thinking Speakers should have Fear. And I'm thinking of taking Command IV away from the Order, and giving it to OO instead. Why exactly is that Order restricted?

I've been thinking, maybe Demon slaying free for confessors.
I'm wondering if giving Implacable to Priors would be too much. I'd really love to see that get some use besides undead units.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Subdue beast high priests seems a little much, but then again I guess they probably wouldn't have a high enough base strength to capture a dragon anyway.



Yea, OO is the most Mind oriented or the available state religions, because Mammon's Archangel's influence on Danalin is what (in some unknown way) created the Overlords. Fear could be appropriate, but might be a bit too strong.

The Law sphere is very much concerned with control, so I think Command is more appropriate for them.




I haven't really played FF is a while. What does Implacable do?


In my version, each of the holy shrines grants units (of the appropriate unitcombats, as this is just given in XML) built there a free promotion:

Code of Junil: Command IV
Dies Diei: Perfect Sight
Tablets of Bambur: Guerrilla II
Song of Autumn: Subdue Animals
Necronomicon: Mutated (and thus the random promotions that go with it)
Nox Noctis: Stealth
Stigmata on the Unborn: still Stigmata, but the promotion is better than in vanilla FfH

 

[WarKirby]

Yea, OO is the most Mind oriented or the available state religions, because Mammon's Archangel's influence on Danalin is what (in some unknown way) created the Overlords. Fear could be appropriate, but might be a bit too strong.

Why would Fear be too strong? Spectres have it, do they not? And I think most undead units can learn it.

The Law sphere is very much concerned with control, so I think Command is more appropriate for them.

I'll say then, that the Command promotions are oddly named. But consider their effect. It converts enemies. I see it more of a seduction. Turning units against their former master, seems to be rather contrary to Order. I think it's more of an evil thing, to be honest. turning people to the dark side, and all.

I haven't really played FF is a while. What does Implacable do?

It is essentially March++
It's only learnable by undead units, after Combat V
Effects are:

• 2 first strikes
• can heal while moving
• Heals extra 30% per turn in enemy/neutral lands
• Heals extra 50% per turn in friendly lands

In my version, each of the holy shrines grants units (of the appropriate unitcombats, as this is just given in XML) built there a free promotion:

Code of Junil: Command IV
Dies Diei: Perfect Sight
Tablets of Bambur: Guerrilla II
Song of Autumn: Subdue Animals
Necronomicon: Mutated (and thus the random promotions that go with it)
Nox Noctis: Stealth
Stigmata on the Unborn: still Stigmata, but the promotion is better than in vanilla FfH

Mutated cultists are a nice idea.
Is it possible to just give the mutate promotion, and let it do it's thing? or does some python need to be invoked?

 

[Valkrionn]

Why would Fear be too strong? Spectres have it, do they not? And I think most undead units can learn it.

Fear prevents units from attacking, does it not? Picture a cultist, casting Tsunami, with defending units unable to attack out of fear. Seems a bit much to me.

 

[WarKirby]

Fear prevents units from attacking, does it not? Picture a cultist, casting Tsunami, with defending units unable to attack out of fear. Seems a bit much to me.

It has a chance of doing so. I think it's 50%
Lots of things are immune to fear too, undead, angels, etc.

But regardless, two points

1. I was going to give it to Speakers (OO high priest) not cultists
2. Cultists can already cast Tsunami repeatedly while the defenders are unable to attack, due to their waterwalking ability.

Ok, granted, they can be attacked by ships, but after a tsunami, the ships are going to be in pretty poor condition, and any sane OO player (an oxymoron) is going to have an escort of drowns/stygs with the cultist.

Or even, cultists can be completely invincible, by standing over a lake. Short of being attacked by another waterwalking unit, or one of the mere two non-unique flying combat units (griffins, and kurio airships), they're pretty much untouchable on a freshwater lake.

So Fear would hardly make them too powerful, I think.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Fear prevents units from attacking, but not 100% of the time. I forget the formula, but I believe the units' relative strength is relevant. Courage can also overcome it.

Note that Fear wasn't proposed for Cultists, but for Speakers.








No python is needed to apply the mutation effects. Freaks get their promotion just from having the mutated promotion, and so do Chaos Marauders.


You could just make Cultists start Mutated if you like. I'd probably instead lean towards making Mutate a OO priest spell again instead. I much prefer having Chaos II be summon Chaos Marauder, which summons said unit (complete with mutation) and gives them the "Frenetic" promotion, making them AI controlled and likely to turn barbarian without the chance of loosing the promotion.


I personally much prefer Tsunami as a Water III spell that deals damage to units near water and can turn land tile to water for a few turns.

I feel Floating Eye has a very OO feel to it, and isn't all that Metamagic related. I prefer making Metamagic I create a temporary, requires caster version of the old Ring of Warding building.

I'm thinking I may end up doubling the number of spells each priest can cast, on average. Some may have more, some less. I'm thiking Cultists should have 3 spells: Mutation, Floating Eye, and Call to the Deep. Call to the Deep would have a random chance of summoning some horrible sea monsters when near the water or of converting existing sea monsters. It would be more successful when cast by higher level units. Sometimes it would backfire and the monsters won't be friendly.

Water Waling would be moved to Speakers, and would give a temporary promotion to the stack (to units of the appropriate unitcombats, which would not include Mounted or Siege). I'm starting to think I like giving them Fear and no second spell. Call to the Deep would be more effective for them though.



Summon Tiger would be changed to a spell that summon a random animal, perhaps depending on both the caster's level and the tile's terrain.

 

[WarKirby]

I really do like being able to mutate, without needing OO religion though. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to take away a useful arcane spell, and replace it with yet another summon

I'm pretty sure we've discussed these particular things before, but regardless, it is kind of off topic. But if you get some of this stuff done, maybe we can poke vehem into implementing it. I'd personally really like to see the summon tiger fix, and Tsunami really should be Water III. I don't think python stuff can be done in modules, so I'm not going to be messing with spells too much here. My main focus is just on giving some neat starting promos to priests at this point.

How does Vile touch sound for Profanes, by the way? It's basically Plague Carrier, but it gives Withered instead of Diseased.

 

[Valkrionn]

I really do like being able to mutate, without needing OO religion though. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to take away a useful arcane spell, and replace it with yet another summon

I'm pretty sure we've discussed these particular things before, but regardless, it is kind of off topic. But if you get some of this stuff done, maybe we can poke vehem into implementing it. I'd personally really like to see the summon tiger fix, and Tsunami really should be Water III. I don't think python stuff can be done in modules, so I'm not going to be messing with spells too much here. My main focus is just on giving some neat starting promos to priests at this point.

How does Vile touch sound for Profanes, by the way? It's basically Plague Carrier, but it gives Withered instead of Diseased.

I agree, too many summons already.

Python and modules do not work together. It was because of python that I finally gave up on keeping my mod modular... Some spells, however, can be done entirely in xml.

Vile Touch sounds perfect actually, so long as cure disease can remove wither... I cannot remember if it does or not.

Edit: Yes it does, so Vile Touch would be a good addition.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Its sounds ok.

(In my version giving Profanes Vile Touch would mean it would make its tile plot counter rise twice as fast as normal Ritualists.)

@ Valkirion: Yes, Cure Disease does remove Withered, as does the Pool of Tears. However, I believe that non-living and disease immune units are not immune to getting this promotion, and aren't valid targets to having it cured (except by the pool).



I don't think the problem is too many summons per se, but rather boring summons. They are essentially all just basic combat units. Chaos Marauder and Guardian Vines were among the most unique of the summons, and should not have been cut. In my version I'm making the summons more unique and have different purposes.

 

[zup]

Also, the high number of summons should be balanced by more spells that don't summon. And the four elementals need new names. Something more imaginative than elemental.

 

[thapagan]

Hey, what about the lizardmen priest? I say you might want to give the the power to build temples.
Or not?

 

[WarKirby]

hmm, the lizardmen priests are unique units. I'm not sure I really want to touch those. My main focus here is changing the general priests that most civs can benefit from. I didn't plan on altering doomsayers or priests of winter, either.