Some ideas for VP and/or modmods

youngsteve

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EIC doesn’t add resources to the map, so the map total remains at 3.
only 1 civ can have the monopoly, but if there is a tie, it’s first come first serve. In order to take the monopoly, another civ has to beat the Dutch’s % ownership
Are you saying a civ who builds it first with say Marble, gains access to another copy in the world, which someone else may lose. What about if two other civs build it with Marble in a city. They still have only one despite building it. Seems nonsense to me. You either have it or you don't. I can understand if it was a world wonder, as these are one offs, but all civs can build National Wonders.
 

pineappledan

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There are 3 marble in the world, and there are two civs: Dutch and Zulu

Dutch and Zulu players both improve 1 source of marble. They both have 33% of all the marble (1/3 and 1/3).
  • The Dutch build an EIC in a city with Marble. They now have 66% Marble (2/3).
    • There are technically 4 marble in play, but still only 3 marble tiles.
  • The zulu build and EIC in a city with Marble. They now have 66% Marble (2/3).
    • There are technically 5 marble in play, but still only 3 marble tiles.
    • The Zulu now have 66% Marble, same as the Dutch, but because they built their EIC second, the Dutch keep the Marble monopoly. The zulu have to get a 3rd marble to beat the Dutch monopoly
This is why you fairly often get games where a civ has 112+% of their monopoly resource. They built an EIC in a city and already control all the resource tiles for that luxury, so they have more of that resource in their control than what is on the map, hence they have >100% of the resource.
 

InkAxis

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Are you saying a civ who builds it first with say Marble, gains access to another copy in the world, which someone else may lose. What about if two other civs build it with Marble in a city. They still have only one despite building it. Seems nonsense to me. You either have it or you don't. I can understand if it was a world wonder, as these are one offs, but all civs can build National Wonders.
I literally showed in game. That was on the latest version. You don't steal resources, a resource is created and given to you, without increasing the amount needed for a monopoly. If you still don't believe me you can test it yourself in game.
 

youngsteve

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There are 3 marble in the world, and there are two civs: Dutch and Zulu

Dutch and Zulu players both improve 1 source of marble. They both have 33% of all the marble (1/3 and 1/3).
  • The Dutch build an EIC in a city with Marble. They now have 66% Marble (2/3).
    • There are technically 4 marble in play, but still only 3 marble tiles.
  • The zulu build and EIC in a city with Marble. They now have 66% Marble (2/3).
    • There are technically 5 marble in play, but still only 3 marble tiles.
    • The Zulu now have 66% Marble, same as the Dutch, but because they built their EIC second, the Dutch keep the Marble monopoly. The zulu have to get a 3rd marble to beat the Dutch monopoly
This is why you fairly often get games where a civ has 112+% of their monopoly resource. They built an EIC in a city and already control all the resource tiles for that luxury, so they have more of that resource in their control than what is on the map, hence they have >100% of the resource.

I can see what your saying, but don't agree with it at all & think it is bad game design. I have played many games with this mod, vast majority building EIC, but this is first time I have realised this. There have been times when I have built it & couldn't understand why I didn't have a majority of a resource, but never realised it was first come first served. To me this is really unfair, particulalry considering the EIC is a national wonder, which all can build, but acts more like a WW, where winner takes all. So whereas I used to look at any cities I have built when building the EIC, I now also have to work out which civs have already built it & in what cities. Sorry, that is silly & not good game design.

Secondly, this also hits the struggling civs/player, who might be last building the EIC for various reasons, & now find they might have little advantage in building it as any advantages for monoplies may have gone. This reminds me of religion, where the civs who don't have one, are put into a big disadvantage. In fairness, that is a major concept, whereas this is just a NW, making it far worse.

Now I know about this. Does anyone know what you need to change so everyone who builds it gets any added resources, even if this means no one gets a monoploy. At least it is fairer.
 
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InkAxis, thanks for the visual representation. I'd just like to add that I usually play on standard size Oval map and it's not uncommon to have only 3 copies of marble on the whole map.
 

Stalker0

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At this point, I think the 3 marble discussion should be moved to its own thread if there is more to discuss there.

One UI mod that would actually be insanely helpful, an extended combat screen that adds another panel to the right side so that you can see every bonus (instead of the current misc bonus that sums up everything).

Beyond just very useful, there have been innumerable bugs with the combat screen over time, and the problem is you are always have to play detective on what the misc bonuses are. If you could see every bonus as plain as day, this would be very useful to know if the combat math is right or if there is a bug present.
 

Gazebo

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At this point, I think the 3 marble discussion should be moved to its own thread if there is more to discuss there.

One UI mod that would actually be insanely helpful, an extended combat screen that adds another panel to the right side so that you can see every bonus (instead of the current misc bonus that sums up everything).

Beyond just very useful, there have been innumerable bugs with the combat screen over time, and the problem is you are always have to play detective on what the misc bonuses are. If you could see every bonus as plain as day, this would be very useful to know if the combat math is right or if there is a bug present.

I'm sure it would be possible to 'expand' the bottom panel for the unit panel during combat, but holy cow it would be a ton of work.
 

Asterix Rage

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One UI mod that would actually be insanely helpful, an extended combat screen that adds another panel to the right side so that you can see every bonus (instead of the current misc bonus that sums up everything).
On this point, I have an opposite opinion.
The full interface is already full of micro infos on everything.
About combat, a very detailed panel would reenforced the too arithmetic aspect of combats. I'm even thinking for long time that a little random (+/-) and hidden factor should be introduce to enhance the stress of war. Here is a good idea of modmod ;)
For now, let's say that the 'misc' plays this role.
After all in real war scenes, we never know for sure who will be the winner. It's not rare to see the weak killing the strong. By courage, ruse or chance.

this would be very useful to know if the combat math is right or if there is a bug present.
From this perspective, of course, it would help a lot.
 

azum4roll

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There's already a ±20% variance in damage. We don't need more randomness.
 

Stalker0

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A cool little QoL mod. I can't tell you how many times I've just been playing along, when suddenly I realize that my entire nation has been converted, so I've lost the chance to buy an inquisitor and fight back!

It would be nice to have a big notice or at minimum a notification that said your primary religion is about to be completely snuffed out.
 
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Stalker0, that's one of the reasons I proposed applying the old Spanish UA to holy cities, that way you'd always have your holy city following your religion, so you could always buy inquisitors there.
 
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One idea I had was to address the problem of capitals not being able to build baths without fresh water, which to me is a problem for all capitals, not just tradition capitals. That's why I wanted to propose that the palace "unlocks" building a baths regardless of fresh water or not. Is that feasible code-wise? Alternatively we could give the palace all the benefits of the baths and make baths unbuildable in the capital.
 

Melchizedek

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I haven't read the entire discussion, just the original post, but reading that I ask myself: If this many things are too strong, are any of them? The philosophy here seems to be that nothing should be unpredictable. But I like each start and each game being different. Sometimes you get a wine monopoly and a strong religion, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get ivory and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get fresh water for baths, and sometimes you don't. Pretty rarely will you get all three, let alone all the things described as OP here. Some other civ got some of those "OP" things. That's fine. Not saying none of these are good ideas, but you're basically proposing rebalancing the whole mod with a strong bias against variance. I do appreciate all the work and thought that went into this list, and some of the points are pretty interesting. I just disagree with the underlying philosophy.
 
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Pal Laki

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Aug 27, 2020
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13. Check out the World Congress Reformation mod. It allows you to establish Sphere of Influence or Open Door after conquering CS. AI use it too!
 

Stalker0

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Another really cool QoL idea.

Have a panel that shows your cities, the lux they need for a WLKTD (and sortable by this, I often like to know when 2-3 cities need the same lux), and then a few columns to show civs that have that lux (even if its one copy). Basically a revamp version of the diplomacy screen. And then clicking on the name of that civ would take you to the deal screen.
 

azum4roll

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Another really cool QoL idea.

Have a panel that shows your cities, the lux they need for a WLKTD (and sortable by this, I often like to know when 2-3 cities need the same lux), and then a few columns to show civs that have that lux (even if its one copy). Basically a revamp version of the diplomacy screen. And then clicking on the name of that civ would take you to the deal screen.
Trade Opportunities already do all of these (and CS quests too).
 

Solic

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Jul 20, 2020
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Another really cool QoL idea.

Have a panel that shows your cities, the lux they need for a WLKTD (and sortable by this, I often like to know when 2-3 cities need the same lux), and then a few columns to show civs that have that lux (even if its one copy). Basically a revamp version of the diplomacy screen. And then clicking on the name of that civ would take you to the deal screen.

In spirit of that I would like that the CS state quest that requires you to obtain a luxury shows a similar mouseover effect like WLKTD does (hovering over the symbol in cities), so you can more easily know where to find it.

In addition, it would be nice if those indicators also showed civs that are currently trading that luxury to another civ (so it's unavailable) in gray for instance. I think that could possibly clutter, but I'd find it helpful, so it's just a suggestion. The first point I think would really be a nice QoL though!
 
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Two more ideas:

If a vassals (original) capital is captured, then the vassalage automatically discontinues. -> I hate fighting against a master and a vassal, conquering a lot of vassal's cities, including their capital, and being unable to make separate deal with them, especially forcing them into capitulation. If the master cannot stop the vassal's capital from falling, then what's the point of the vassalage between the two civs?

Have inquisitors show immediately (without having to hover with the cursor on the unit) to which religion the unit belongs to, similar to what's currently the deal with missionaries. Just a QoL change.
 
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