Global GPP Concept: Model 1 Excel Tool

[Stalker0]

Based on the proposal here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/proposal-add-a-global-pool-for-great-person-points.680212/


This proposal is as interesting as it is potentially radical, and it can be hard to understand just what impacts it would have. To help with that, I have created a model of how the new system might work.

• First, we used a log of GPP numbers from a real game. This was a China Immortal Tall play as Tradition/Artistry/Rationalism/Freedom. The log does not look at free GP or GPP from quests (which I tried to avoid), but all other GPP sources are accounted for. I avoided beliefs that increased my GPP numbers so that wouldn't be a factor.
• The attached excel allows you to tweak the amount of GPP that goes into the global pool, as well as the thresholds for new great people. From there, the chart will show you how it effects the progression of GP based on this real game. You will be able to see when and where GP are created and compare it to the base model.
• Notes about the model: The log doesn't fully capture all of the GPP fractions, I tried to account for that where I could, but the results might be off by a 1 or 2 turn. Also note that in reality, having the global GPP system would also change your game play a bit, so this isn't perfect, but its far more accurate than a pure theoretical discussion.
• The excel is very easy to use. Just enter your desire Global GPP %, your initial base starting point, and your threshold increase number. OG numbers are 0, 150, and 250 for these respectively.
• NEW: There is now a GPP Waste tab added. You can now see how much GPP is left in each city for each GPP type based on original, and adjusted by the variables. There is also a "Waste Saved" row at the bottom which will indicate how much waste is removed by the adjustments.
  
  
  VERSION 1.1: Corrected a sorting error with Great Diplomats, and a visual issue with Great Scientists.
  VERSION 1.2: Updated the GPP rounding to 2 decimal places, which is how the actual system handles it. Added new GPP waste tab.

 

[pineappledan]

Need to know some facts about your game:

• How many cities did you have and when were they founded?
• What were your policy choices?
• Where was your national monument?
• What wonders did you get where?

 

[Stalker0]

Need to know some facts about your game:

• How many cities did you have and when were they founded?

Don't know the exact turns. It was a "slow expansion", I would generally only expand until after a policy is founded. Aka you don't get your 4th city until your 4th policy kind of thing.

• What were your policy choices?

Tradition, Artistry, Rationalism, Freedom.... then Industry 4 when I maxxed out Freedom. Avante Garde was of course taken for Freedom.

• Where was your national monument?

Capital

• What wonders did you get where?

• Pyramids
• Ankor Wat
• Hagia Sophia
• Porcelain Tower
• Taj Mahal
• Lourve
• Brandenberg Gate
• Statue of Liberty
• Cristo Rendentor
• Eiffle Tower
• Maus of Hal
• CN Tower
• Hubble
• Leaning Tower
• Petra
• Terracotta Army
• Karlstein
• Globe Theater
• Slater Mill
• Motherland Calls
• Bletchley Park
• Trader Sid's Corp
  
  All wonders and national wonders built in Capital with exception of Heroic Epic (built in Nanjing)

 

[hokath]

My executive summary of these results at 0.33 transfer is that for this "tall" game, you get 1 more of each GP, and they arrive between 5 and 10 turns earlier on average starting from circa turn 200.

Now do a wide one
P.s. thank you for taking the initiative to provide these data

 

[pineappledan]

There are some hiccups in the data. I suspect something was recorded or calculated wrong with GArtists, and you won't actually spawn an extra one at 33%, and something has gone awry with the GMerchant calculations

Ignoring those 2, the quick and dirty summary is that, in a tall game with relatively few cities, fewer GPs are wasted at the end of the game in half-filled GP meters, translating into 1 extra GPerson of each type by the time the game concludes.
This mostly establishes that this will have a small effect on tall, but not much else.

The real test is a wide game. A wide game will have more slots in small cities that have no normal hope of ever producing a GP. Ultimately, however, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. You're not going to get great data playing these games with the GP meter as it is now; gaming out how those same GPPs would have resulted in a new GP in a different model doesn't tackle how your incentives are radically changed with the existence of a global pool. Playing as if they will go somewhere is going to result in inefficient play in the present context, and might spoil the results in a different way by making the player fall behind.

What I find most interesting from these results is just the data of the original model. According to the results, even in a 5 city empire:

• 21% of all GArtists points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 26% of all GMusician points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 35% of all GWriter points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 28% of all GEngineer points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 52% of all GMerchant points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 31% of all GScientist points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP
• 42% of all GDiplomat points were waste and didn't contribute to a new GP

I expect these figures to be way more dramatic with in a game with 6+ cities.

 

[Gazebo]

Question: does the amount needed scale with empire size, a la science/culture?
G

 

[Stalker0]

Question: does the amount needed scale with empire size, a la science/culture?
G

in terms of the "standard model", no. There was some discussion about adding an empire scaler if a GPP pool was to be added, but this model assumes just the normal threshold calculations. You can adjust the thresholds in the excel.