Glory and Greatness

[seasnake]

UPDATE: Working on Glory and Greatness: The Powers that Be. This is an expansion to the base game. It will have 2 leaders per civ, Mali and Songhai are being united into 1 and Poland-Lithuania is coming in. Each civ will have 2 Unique Powers, there will be 8 or 10 traits with 2 powers each, and both leaders will have a different trait.

So for example, Mongolia's ability is Empire of the Horde, which means they start with a source of horse and acquire any technology owned by a rival if they take one of their cities. However, if you play as Genghis Khan you'll have a Militaristic leader, which gives a bonus 10 percent fighting in enemy territory and double production of Barracks, Stables, Arsenals, and Manufactuaries. However, if you play as Kublai, you have a Cultured leader with +2 Culture per city and double production of Library, Theatre, Colosseum.

There will be 7 guilds as well and there will be hero units that can be acquired by building wonders, being the first to a technology or simply building it when available.

Game will incorporate Better BTS AI.

Release in March, end of march probably.

 

[Civ'ed]

Cool!
For Poland-Lithuania, what would the UP be? The UU? The UB?

 

[Loke.be]

So each civ will have it's own specifications and 2 traits depending on the leader you choose. Looks good. Would really think about the negative trait related to each leader... this would help to balance but also to give real differences between each leaders.

I believe that capturing a complete tech is too powerful... something like 40-50% would be enough I think. Or the negative traits which would reduce mongols science level..? dunno.

 

[seasnake]

To Civ'ed: I'm doing a rework of all other UPs, pairing them with other things. I think Poland-Lithuania will produce 4 Great Artist points in their capital and enemies will have have +100 War Weariness.

To Loke.be: Here's the tentative list of traits. Subject to change. You have 10 traits, their effects, and one leader who would have that trait.

Spoiler :

1) Strategic
a) 33 percent Less experience needed for promotions
b) Morale Promotion for Recon, Settlers, Air Units
i) Washington
2) Cultured
a) 2 Culture per city
b) Double Colosseum, Library, Theatre, etc.
i) Ramkhamhaeng
3) Militaristic
a) Double Production barracks, manufactuaries, etc.
b) 10 percent combat bonus outside cultural borders
i) Napoleon
4) Organized
a) -50 percent maintenance
b) Double Courthouse, Jail, etc.
i) Hammurabi
5) Expansive
a) Double Production of Settlers and Workers
b) Units don’t need open borders agreements
i) Charlemagne
6) Charismatic
a) 2 Happiness per city
b) Fight better in own borders
i) Justinian
7) Maritime
a) +3 health in all cities
b) Double customs house, lighthouse, harbor
i) Ragnar
8) Scientific
a) +20 percent research
b) Double University
i) Huayna Capac
9) Spiritual
a) Double production of some Religious Buildings
b) No Anarchy
i) Zara Yaqob
10) Commercial
a) Double gold from trade routes
b) Double Market, Bank
i) Willem

 

[Civ'ed]

UU... Not too much of a Poland expert, but Uhlans would work. Huszars would too
(ok, for me, Uhlans and Poland sounds odd. It's AoEIII that does it )

 

[seasnake]

Winged Hussar for Poland sounds good, but I think I want another unit to represent the Lithuanian side as well.

 

[Civ'ed]

It seems the Lithuanian part is neglected as all I can find is Polish cossacks (ok........) and hussars.
All I can deduct is maybe Lithuanian duke instead of knight as whenever Poland-Lithuania had trouble with the Tartars (Golden Horde) it was the dukes of Lithuania who led the armies. Otherwise Lithuanian light cavalry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald

Spoiler Quite some text :

Vytautas*, supported by a few Polish banners, started an assault on the left flank of the Teutonic forces. After more than an hour of heavy fighting, the Lithuanian light cavalry started a full retreat. Jan Długosz described this development as a complete annihilation of the entire Lithuanian army. According to Długosz, the Knights assumed that victory was theirs, broke their formation for a disorganized pursuit of the retreating Lithuanians, and gathered much loot before returning to the battlefield to face the Polish troops. He made no mention of the Lithuanians that returned to the battlefield. Thus Długosz portrayed the battle as a single-handed Polish victory. This view has been challenged by modern historians. They proposed that the retreat was a planned, strategic maneuver, borrowed from the Golden Horde. The same false retreat was used in the Battle of the Vorskla River of 1399, where the Lithuanian army was dealt a crushing defeat and Vytautas himself barely escaped alive. This theory is supported by a German letter, discovered and published by Swedish historian Sven Ekdahl in 1963. The letter cautions the new Grand Master to look out for false retreats of the kind that were used in the Great Battle. Stephen Turnbull asserted that the Lithuanian retreat did not quite fit the tried formula of a false retreat. Such a retreat was usually staged by one or two units (as opposed to almost an entire army) and was swiftly followed by a counterattack (whereas the Lithuanians returned late in the battle).

* The Duke of Lithuania

So practically the Teutons lost the battle because of a tactic the Lithuanians adapted from their many wars with the Golden Horde. Or they failed badly. Either way, the cavalry are known for this.

Just thought you might be interested

UB could be Voivod office. That would call for another UU.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
On another note, would it be possible to add Bohemia? Not in this expansion, but later.

 

[Civ'ed]

I've conjured up a city list

Spoiler Poland-Lithuania :

Warsaw
Vilnius
Belz
Braclaw
Brest (NOTE: THIS WAS the capital of a lithuanian voivodeship.)
Minsk
Mstislaw
Navahrudak
Polotsk
Raseiniai
Trakai
Vitebsk
Brzesc Kujawski
Chernihiv
Gniezno
Kalisz
Kiev
Krakow
Lublin
Leczcya
Malbork
Kamianets-Podilskyi
Poznan
Plock
Drohiczyn
Raha Mazowiecka
Lviv
Sandomierz
Sierardz
Lutsk
Key: Green is Lithuanian and red is polish.

30 capitals of voivodeships - enough for the civ.

 

[seasnake]

Hey, I found a great Lithuania Civ, and it's unique building is ... the Voivodship! So apparently some great minds are thinking alike. It's UU is a swordsman, so I'll team it and the Hussar together with the Polish Sejmik. It has a cool leaderhead too, so it's coming in!

I'll use your civ list too, looks great!

 

[seasnake]

One thing though: I'll do Krakow first, then Warsaw, than Vilnius, since Krakow was a capital for a long time as well!

EDIT: I forgot to answer your other question. Sorry.

As for Bohemia, I think between HRE and Germany we have sufficient coverage of the area (Seriously, I've been considering merging those two together!, give them the Panzer, Landsknecht and Uboat and Rathaus, Bismarck and Charlemagne, and have the Apache or Timurids come in instead, still may do it). If I was going to do central europe I'd have to go with Austro-Hungarian Empire with Franz Ferdinand. Bohemia isn't really high on the list, although by all accounts an amazing place (my wife's ancestors all come from there, they talk about it all the time).

 

[Civ'ed]

So is the Sejmik a unit or a building? Wikipedia states it as a regional assembly of the Polis-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

 

[Civ'ed]

Just found something that kinda blows a hole in the event system.

As you can see, I am playing Russia with the name Poland-Lithuania to check if all the names fit, and the breakthrough event is rigged to "the Adjective Empire" because I named it the Commonwealth. That should be edited to "Country name (russian empire, etc)". You also might want to change the base names. Russian Empire is ok, but American empire or P-L empire sounds too weird.

thus...

Spoiler Looooong list :

List of -Empire replaces

America = United States of America
Arabia = Arabian Caliphate
Aztec = Aztec Empire
Babylon = Kingdom of Babylon
Britain = Great Britain OR British Empire
Byzantium = Byzantine Empire
Carthage = Carthagian Empire
Celts = Celtic Kingdoms
Chinese = People's Republic of China OR Chinese Empire
Dutch = Kingdom of the Netherlands
Egypt = Egyptian Kingdom
Ethiopia = Kingdom of Ethiopia
France = Kingdom of France OR French Republic
Germany = Kingdom of Prussia (sorry, but it's true)
Gran Colombia = Gran Colombia
Greece = Greek League
Holy Rome = Holy Roman Empire
Inca = Kingdom of Cuzco OR Incan Empire
India = Republic of India
Iroquois = Iroquois Confederacy
Israel = Israel
Japan = Japanese Shogunate
Khmer = Kingdom of Khmer
Korea = Kingdom of Korea
Mali/Songhai = Kingdom of ???
Maya = Mayan City-States
Mongolia = Mongolian Khanate
Ottomans = Ottoman Empire
Persia = Iran OR Kingdom of Persia OR Persian Empire
Polynesia = Polynesian Peoples
Portugal = Kingdom of Portugal
Rome = Roman Empire OR Italy
Russia = Russian Empire OR USSR
Scandinavia = Viking Union
Siam = Thailand OR Kingdom of Sukothai
Sioux = Sioux Tribes
Spain = Kingdom of Spain
Sumeria = Mesopotamian City-States
Zulu = Zulu Tribes
Poland-Lithuania = Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

 

[seasnake]

My computer melted thanks to a virus, going to go get some tech support tomorrow. Ouch! Modding and everything else on hold. On another computer, wife's mac. Didn't want to leave you hanging, civ'ed.

The Sejmik is a building. It replaces the stable and gives a +3 XP bonus to both melee troops and mounted troops. The Voivodeship replaces the courthouse and reduces War Weariness and adds a Free Spy specialist. Bajoras is a Longswordsman with +2 strength, Hussar is a cuirassier with +2 strength and stronger flanking attacks to siege. I think they'll be a strong civ for fighting and have great synergy with their UP (Extra War Weariness for Enemies and Capital produces Great Artists). Leaders will probably be Militaristic (Vytautas) and Cultured (Casimir) but that is subject to change. Spiritual is on the table for both, depending on the needs of other civs.

As far as the EMPIRE noun, here's the situation as I see it: Civ is Ahistorical in most respects, History is supposed to give it a flavor, background and nuance. In this case, every civilization in the game is an "empire" in that it is united under the sole command of one timeless emperor or empress and there is no such thing as individual member states, rather cities of the great empire. The Emperor commands, the troops, the cities productions, tells his governors what to do and think, and even tells his citizens what their occupations are. Imagine this in real life:

"Bob, you're a priest now, I need a great prophet for my new shrine."
"But I'm an atheist..."
"Not anymore, now start preaching. And Jim, you no longer raise cattle, go harvest the rice crop instead. I'm sure you'll do fine."

So while I agree from a historical perspective you're right, and in a game like Europa Universalis your analysis is spot on, I think for purposes of civilization the Empire noun works well.

 

[Civ'ed]

ok ok thanks dude

 

[seasnake]

No sweat.

It'll be 200 bucks and 1 week to fix my computer. Aaagh!

 

[dataskywalker]

OUCH! What model is it?

 

[Civ'ed]

sad. but...
Name for the UP?
First Commonwealth?

 

[seasnake]

It is a Vaio ... something. Got it a year ago, but this happened just beyond the warranty time.

For the UP, I originally found a motto referring the P-L union as "An Eternal Brotherhood" and I like how that sounded. SO I'm planning, once I get my computer back, to call it that.

 

[dataskywalker]

Might I make a suggestion for a special ability for Bismarck? It's called "Blood and Iron" and provides 10% increased production of siege units, +1 visibility range for infantry, and no war weariness in your capital city. Another ability name I can think of is "Kulterkampf", which I think should affect culture and religion.

 

[Civ'ed]

Seasnake, is your computer fixed yet? Because the commonwealth is waiting.