gmaharriet01

[scoutsout]

After action review:

The good - Our boats spotted another border!

The bad - our tactical situation isn't what I'd like it to be, but that can wait. I think we need to focus on our victory goal (Khan's Kul-cher) and delay war.

The ugly - happiness is an issue - expected with the use of the . There are some silks at the extreme northern tip of our landmass. With AI boats in the water, I expect a town to show up there soon... but we need to focus on settling to the north and northwest.

Tactical situation: I opened up a gap in our Line in the Sand, and let some Mayan settler pairs wander in. My thinking at the time was that I could enslave some free workers on the opening round of a war. I do love leaving Harriet a nice slugfest to contend with. Anyway, there are sufficient horses down there to corral the settler pairs and send them home, if we like.

How I'd play it from here:

• Delay the war, focus on expansion and culture.
• Delay the purchase of Literature until after the next IBT.
• Depending on whether our yachts survive, we may get a better deal on Lit.
• Get Lit at the start of the next turn. Wholesale build order changes:
  • Swap every granary and Barracks build to a Library.
  • Swap Kazan and Fish Mongerville to Library
  • Swap every productive city size 3 or greater that's building units to a settler.
  • Spawn settlers, then order up Libraries.
  • The magic number for the whip is 19 shields.

Next better player, here's >>>The Save<<<.

 

[gmaharriet]

Got it and plan to play tonight.

Trying to formulate my questions since this is my first 100k culture game and I've never whipped anything.

Delay the war, focus on expansion and culture.
Delay the purchase of Literature until after the next IBT.
Depending on whether our yachts survive, we may get a better deal on Lit.
Get Lit at the start of the next turn. Wholesale build order changes:

Is the delay of only 1 turn if our boats survive to make contact with new civs and get Lit cheaper? If we buy elsewhere, tell Smoke to leave or declare? If we buy from Smoke, war is delayed for the duration of the gpt payments? If we have said 20-turn delay, use horses and other units to dance with settler pairs?

Whipping...Why is magic number 19? I thought whipping yielded 20 shields...do we need at least one in the bin? What is the effect of unhappiness with only 1 lux?...I believe I read somewhere that unhappiness lasts 20 turns, but not what to do to ameliorate it...do we wind up with several citizens as clowns? Do we always whip to completion or do we speed a build only partially?

If we go to war with Smoke, is the idea to balance culture and unit builds and new settlers?

Any and all input from the team will be appreciated.

 

[zerksees]

Whipping does give you 20 shields, but trying to rush something with no shields in the box (lower right on city screen) means it will cost twice as much to complete. So if you complete an item, start a spearman and try to rush it you will use up two citizens. If you wait one turn and get a blue shield in the box, it will only cost one citizen.

Same goes for any size unit. Want to build an 80 shield library? The first turn would cost 8 citizens. The second turn it will cost 4.

Incidently if you disband a unit in the citiy to get some shields you can rush on the first turn and not pay the premium. The key is to have some shields in the box when you rush build.

 

[Whomp]

Is the delay of only 1 turn if our boats survive to make contact with new civs and get Lit cheaper?

I would not be in a rush to trade right off the bat unless you think there's a place for a library whipped or otherwise. The more civs we meet the lower the price becomes so now is the time to start using Bede's tenets. There's finally an opportunity for a 2 fer.

If we buy elsewhere, tell Smoke to leave or declare? If we buy from Smoke, war is delayed for the duration of the gpt payments? If we have said 20-turn delay, use horses and other units to dance with settler pairs?

My preference would be to stop giving Smoke gpt and only trade in a tech for tech deal. The time has come for him to become our whipping boy and even better if he finishes the Glib. He doesn't know anyone and we will. I would dance with him, get him angry and demand him leaving our territory every turn.

Whipping...Why is magic number 19? I thought whipping yielded 20 shields...do we need at least one in the bin?

No 20 is fine to finish a citizen off as long as something is in the box. Chops, disbands help.

What is the effect of unhappiness with only 1 lux?...I believe I read somewhere that unhappiness lasts 20 turns, but not what to do to ameliorate it...do we wind up with several citizens as clowns?

I would not whip the core cities. They are the ones with real production. They will produce our military and settlers so whipping them doesn't make sense to me. Look at any 5CC and you'll see a neighbor can be punished with 5 productive cities. The rest can use some culture but you need something in the box first.

I'd focus on getting the silks hooked up asap.

Do we always whip to completion or do we speed a build only partially?

Chops are huge. If you can chop your way to a temple do that until you have 20 left. Then whip to completion. I'm more inclined to partial whip at 3 or 4 than 2 pop since you'll have at least 1 reasonable citizen to work the fields.

If we go to war with Smoke, is the idea to balance culture and unit builds and new settlers?

That'd be the plan.

That my .02 but I'm interested to hear everyone else' opinion.

 

[fe3333au]

I'd also continue with floatie things ... we will have a new land to explore but there must be others ... and those sea barbs are tough ... I'd especially send some down to Smokie's lands and see if he has any close and as yet undiscovered neighbours ... we must stop him expanding and finding friends.

 

[fe3333au]

Should we wait for him to construct the great Library for us ???

 

[Whomp]

Should we wait for him to construct the great Library for us ???

I don't think we can. They've already missed on the pyramids (which would've been an enormous help btw). I'm surprised we haven't recieived any confirmation that it's already finished on the other continent since they're in the MA. BTW rax does = barracks.

On the floatie thing my guess is suicide galleys are the only way to meet neighbors since chances are there are ocean/sea squares between the continents. The AI won't suicide galleys so it could be till caravels before the Mayans are paid a visit.

PS Fe I'll try to switch AIM to my other pc since the one I have it on doesn't work.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

good to see floaties survive.

for amusement value, you can close the line in the sand. then open a hole on the side farthest from the wanding jungle pairs; when they get close to the hole, seal it and open a hole on the other side of the line. Be warned this gets tedius.

I'd also like to stay away from gpt deals with smoke unless we're very sure we can draw him into a quick war.

 

[Smart]

Edit: posted in wrong thread, sorry

 

[scoutsout]

I would not be in a rush to trade right off the bat unless you think there's a place for a library whipped or otherwise. The more civs we meet the lower the price becomes so now is the time to start using Bede's tenets. There's finally an opportunity for a 2 fer.

I agree with this - to a point... but I do hope Harriet gets Lit on her turns, as Libraries are such a key component of a 100k victory.

Remember - we're into the A.D. era. We need to get as many early cultural improvements as we can, so they'll double in cultural value when they reach 1,000 years old. A Temple and Library that are 1,000 years old will produce 10cpt for us.

Another thing to consider - if we're going to switch to Feudalism it will make sense for us to have a lot of small towns as opposed to large cities - the unit upkeep metric is the revers of Republic. Two towns with Temples/Libraries early will produce more culture than one city that cannot (yet) build a Cathedral and University.

So once we get outside the core, pack the towns in ICS style... settling ON food poor tiles (hills, desert) that are near tiles we can irrigate for food. Size 6 towns with a couple of taxmen will at least pay for the upkeep on the cultural improvements. With enough towns our military upkeep ought to be minimal under Feudalism.

 

[gmaharriet]

Ok, now I'm confused (well, more so )

Delay the purchase of Literature until after the next IBT.
Depending on whether our yachts survive, we may get a better deal on Lit.
Get Lit at the start of the next turn. Wholesale build order changes:
Swap every granary and Barracks build to a Library.
Swap Kazan and Fish Mongerville to Library
Swap every productive city size 3 or greater that's building units to a settler.
Spawn settlers, then order up Libraries.

Then

I would not be in a rush to trade right off the bat unless you think there's a place for a library whipped or otherwise. The more civs we meet the lower the price becomes so now is the time to start using Bede's tenets. There's finally an opportunity for a 2 fer.

So.... Trade soon or wait longer? Swap per Scout's suggestions or is there something else in mind? Gpt and get Smoke to declare? or wait until we are sure galleys are across and trade tech for tech?

Both 100k culture and no research are new for me, so I need specific guidance (and then, of course, the game situation will change). I'm going to go look at the save again and will return.

 

[Whomp]

Trade soon as Scout said. This is one of those really important must have techs. My point was that if those swaps won't finish over the next couple turns don't make the deal. There's a possibility of more contacts close to the Ports.

 

[scoutsout]

So.... Trade soon or wait longer? Swap per Scout's suggestions or is there something else in mind?

Here's how I would play it: wait out the IBT with the status quo. If a boat survives, beeline for coast and see who you can contact. If you can trade for a tech that the Maya don't have, you might be able to get that two-fer (or more-fer). There is that risk that you buy a tech that Smoke-Jag is already researching... in which case you might not be able to get Lit... but I think your second worst-case scenario is that you'll meet a civ that's on par with the Maya, and the price of Literature will drop.

The worst case scenario is that both boats sink. The odds for 1 of 2 boats surviving in a Sea tile are better than one of the two surviving in an Ocean tile. (Lesson on elementary probability theory later if you want it...) I have had slightly better results stacking 2-3 galleys for blind suicide runs.

I would not do the "move or declare" thing with Smoke-Jag if you don't want a fight. My gut says that the timing is not quite right... there is much land to be settled. The key to a cultural win is to get as much culture as you can, as early as you can.

Here's an adjustment I'd like to make to our 'line in the sand'...(this'll take 2-4 turnsets to pull off...) Let's see if we can replace those horses with spears on the mountains. If we can augment that with some archers on every other tile, that might make a formidable enough line that the Maya would advance towards the south, where the more open terrain favors our horse-heavy military.

 

[gmaharriet]

Ok, took a closer look at the save and here are my thoughts. If one or both of the boats survive, wait to trade until we see what kind of deal we can get. If they don't survive, make the trade with Smoke pretty much as originally proposed (which is all of our gold plus the gpt) and try to block the settlers.

I checked F3 and we are weak to the Maya, so war doesn't seem like a good idea, especially when we have a "second front" with the barbs.

There are 3 of our settlers out, 2 in the N/W with 4 spots indicated by Scout. I'd probably go for one of the closer southerly spots and one of the more northerly, since the AI like to have lots of room and it might discourage them. Our 3rd settler is N/E and neither the recent dop map nor the older original one shows that area. There's a nice river right where it's standing, so I'd be inclined to just plant a town there.

There are 4 Mayan settler pairs and I'll try to block them as best I can. I didn't notice a lot of spears for the mountains, but I have trouble distinguishing units sometimes when they're given names other than just "spearman" or "swordsman" and we have been VERY creative in our naming.

I'll wait a bit for comments and then give it my best shot.

 

[Whomp]

That all sounds good Gram. I would try to dance the best you can with the settlers.

 

[gmaharriet]

Ok, I'll be back with more questions if things get complicated.

 

[scoutsout]

That all sounds good Gram. I would try to dance the best you can with the settlers.

She should have enough to dance with... IIRC, I left half a dozen horses in that town between Viking's Home and the coastal town... with more on the way, there should be enough there to close off the gap.

I just wanna know if our yachts survived the "suicide regatta".

Edit: I think I left those ponies are in WhomperRoom.

 

[gmaharriet]

Yep! Found the ponies, line is filled and settlers have probably left to find galleys to ride, but no more Mayan towns yet. 2 out of 4 of our galleys made it across to find Henry and Abe, who have all the same techs as Smoke EXCEPT lit.

I've just finished turn 3 and here's an excerpt from my log, "F3 shows we are now average to Maya and strong to Abe and Henry. Abe has Japanese slaves and Henry has Dutch slaves, so the other civs must be nearby. Smoke is now asking 316g +6gpt for lit." Two more galleys just finished and will explore our continent.

Since it seems likely we'll find the Japanese and Dutch soon, I've put off trading. We have 2 new towns with temples started, 1 more soon and 3 settlers being built for new towns and to relieve happiness problems in our core. We've lost 2 archers to barbs and killed 3...not much of a kill ratio, and I'm sending new horses that direction for barb control.

I'm in no rush to finish this, and want to be sure I'm thinking in the right direction and will likely continue tomorrow night.

 

[Whomp]

Nice improvement on Smoke's pricing from 14gpt and 220g to 6gpt and 316g.
The Dutch were eliminated (by Henry it seems).

 

[gmaharriet]

Nice improvement on Smoke's pricing from 14gpt and 220g to 6gpt and 316g.
The Dutch were eliminated (by Henry it seems).

I don't know if they've been eliminated yet, but they've certainly been at war. Only 1 of the galleys has had time to explore 3 tiles eastward and the other just arrived and will go west looking for the Dutch and Japanese.

Smoke's inital offer included 8gpt, but I sweet-talked him down to 6. If I should accept that offer, let me know or I'll continue looking for more potential trading partners first.