Going broke early game

[Wojciech Rodzik]

Hi,

This is pathetic, but:

I play on prince/epic. Usually I start with Scout-monument-shrine-granary-GL-settler from liberty-settler-archer-Stonehenge-settler-archer-remaining interesting wonders (Pyramids?)
New cities go monument-shrine-let's try to finish lesser wonder x (Temple of the Artemis, HG, etc)

The problem is that at this point I am starting to go into negative spending, which bankrupts me....
I spend like 20+ turns with 50% research capacity which is bad, then foreign trade routes kick in and dig me out from the pit...
How to avoid that? I usually make first or second religion (prince ), take tithe. Tried beelinging currency, but that is not helping....

 

[NoOneImportant]

Hello Wojtek.
It seems that you just don't build workers that would improve luxury or strategic resources - main source of money in early game is selling those to the AI, so you shouldn't wait so long before getting them.
You should also get caravans/cargo ships (preferable) earlier and set up some trade routes with nearby civs.
Also, it can be beneficial to accept AI embassy for one gold per turn - not much, but helps.

 

[DemonMaster]

I usually go Scout-Monument-Worker-?
If I have a start with less food, I build a worker before monument (plains, tundra, etc).

And after perhaps a shrine and an archer I go with another worker.

I then live on my scouting money (if negative) until I start earning my own money.

 

[Wojciech Rodzik]

I usually steal one worker from CS, or just enslave enemy settler (if I am able to find it)

How can I sell my luxuries to AI?

I usually trade redundant ones for other luxury they have...

 

[DemonMaster]

Perhaps expanding to fast is the problem. To many cities to fast and/or to much undeveloped land and/or to many units can be painful. You can sell luxuries for gpt (unless you are friends with them of course), usually to a rate of 5-7 gpt or so.

 

[Aristos]

The monument is the core problem. It's usually better to start with the Tradition tree and get the monuments for free for the first 4 cities. Plus, you don't waste production on them, so you can use the production for workers (which should immediately follow the scout/unit).

Also, GL shouldn't be a must, it is extremely situational... as in "do I have enough forests to chop to secure GL?" and other conditions...

 

[Syntax Error]

I go Scout -> Worker on land maps. Then after that is a decision:

Is the immediate land conducive to forming a religion (there are tiles that will allow you to generate faith through a Pantheon)? If yes, build Shrine. Needless to say, Pottery first tech. Then, I ask myself: Will I be taking Tradition and Legalism early? If yes, build Granary. If no, build Monument.

Oh, and the sooner you learn to play without risking the Great Library, the better. I find that even in King, it gets picked off at around turn 40-50. If you have a lot of trees, you can probably chop it down, but there are better wonders for that (ToA for population, which gives more science long-term, Hanging Gardens for a monster Capital, even your National College, if need be).

 

[Wojciech Rodzik]

I strongly favor Liberty over tradition (although I usually finish both trees, prince + Poland = easy)

My cultural picks are:

Tradition opener -> liberty opener -> Republic - > Free settler - > Faster wonder construction from tradition -> Rest of liberty tree-> Tradition ->Monarchy -> rest of tradition.

I am usually boosted by oracle, so it is not THAT hard (once again: prince)

 

[phillipwyllie]

3 words: trade, trade, trade.

Buff your trade with markets and banks, then later on stock exchanges. Early on the AI will want to trade rather than go to war with you(although sometimes it will take the initiative early on).

 

[DemonMaster]

The monument is the core problem. It's usually better to start with the Tradition tree and get the monuments for free for the first 4 cities. Plus, you don't waste production on them, so you can use the production for workers (which should immediately follow the scout/unit).

Also, GL shouldn't be a must, it is extremely situational... as in "do I have enough forests to chop to secure GL?" and other conditions...

The maintenance cost for monument is one, nothing that will make you go bankrupt. Sure it takes time to build (although not that long for your capital), but your starting city needs to grow anyway.

For me if I go Tradition, I don't overbuild my military, unless I am planing on do some warmongering. I don't build caravans or cargo ships unless I have (and preferable also my target cities) developed some resources (not worth much until you do). Since I have selected Tradition I am not in a hurry to build another settler, I let my capital grow, for the Monarchy

If I go Liberty, then I also try to let my capital grow, but also I need to connect my cities with roads, for the Republic In this case I will buy a granary in a city so I can use my first caravan to go food (since there still isn't much money early one in trade). I still don't overbuild my military.

The only time I overbuild my military is when I'm attacked or if I plan to go warmongering. Hopefully my scouting money is enough to let me buy an archer or a wall that can defend me until I have built some more or if I am the aggressor I hope that my scouting money is enough until I have started to get my plunder/sacking going to generate money. Sure money can go down for a bit during this, but hey war is a terrible thing.

 

[Ayestes]

Tradition basically just needs Monarchy. Liberty needs to race to Markets in a timely matter. That's my experience at least. In both cases you shouldn't overbuild Military and should be trying to sell luxuries so you have extra leeway, although that's probably not going to quite workout in an MP game. The early game money is meant to made up by Trade Routes, so that is the other way to overcome gold issues early on. Just make sure the routes are protected.

 

[Aristos]

The maintenance cost for monument is one, nothing that will make you go bankrupt.

It's not the maintenance only, it's mainly the cost of opportunity

 

[DemonMaster]

It's not the maintenance only, it's mainly the cost of opportunity

I'm not arguing with you about that, I am a Traditionalist myself, but every once in a while, I go Liberty (yes it is still possible, with some good tactics and thought).

 

[Wojciech Rodzik]

Started game yesterday.
Was lucky enough to score 3 cotton plantations near my capital, started selling....

No more problems

Prince

 

[Aristos]

I'm not arguing with you about that, I am a Traditionalist myself, but every once in a while, I go Liberty (yes it is still possible, with some good tactics and thought).

Yes, I know, I wasn't championing Trad either, just the first two pols to avoid the monuments cost (gold + opportunity); I also go Liberty many times, depending on what the outlook for the game is (4-6 cities Trad, 6+ cities starts to call for Liberty).

EHhh... I should play more. Damn you Paradox! EU4 has me completely taken, including modding...

 

[Aaron90495]

Yes, I know, I wasn't championing Trad either, just the first two pols to avoid the monuments cost (gold + opportunity); I also go Liberty many times, depending on what the outlook for the game is (4-6 cities Trad, 6+ cities starts to call for Liberty).

EHhh... I should play more. Damn you Paradox! EU4 has me completely taken, including modding...

Interesting you say that about EU4. I've been playing it and really enjoy it, but it hasn't hooked me like Civ has/did. Some like the open-ended and realistic nature of EU4, but I generally prefer the option to paint the map my color, which is prevented by some of EU4's realism mechanisms.

 

[Aristos]

Interesting you say that about EU4. I've been playing it and really enjoy it, but it hasn't hooked me like Civ has/did. Some like the open-ended and realistic nature of EU4, but I generally prefer the option to paint the map my color, which is prevented by some of EU4's realism mechanisms.

The last 1.2 patch broke some important things, so while I wait for the hotfix (any moment), I may continue my long-ago asleep Rome game where, coincidentally, I decided to stay 4 cities as long as possible for the first time in Civ5...

But yes, as a long time PDX customer and fan, I have to say EU4 is a masterpiece for me. Different games, different fun... but always thinking fun.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

Wojchiech, the question is not pathetic. It is a problem all of us have faced at sometime. The advice has that has been given has all been good and allows a variety of strategies. With workers, I play on raging barbs so generally chance picking a worker up from rescuing it from a barb camp. Obtaining it too early in a scenario is using it as a bait for brutes (in my case).

These days I prefer tradition over liberty and Monarchy does help a lot.