Coast is just a tag like fresh water and river, right?
Why not extra defense while embarked? My issue with naval invasions is that my units are very weak if there's retaliation. The removed penalty when attacking from land makes little for me, since I'm opening a path with my naval cannons, and only melee land units may attack from the sea. So, basic stuff is, opening one or two tiles for a sturdy melee unit to hold feet, keep killing units with the fleet, then widening the gap with the meat units and move ranged ones healers behind. Then proceed as usual.I had an idea, not sure if this is doable so check me.
I have mentioned in recent posts that Naval invasions are very difficult, even more so for the AI. Its just very difficult to put your units on another person's shores without them getting ripped to pieces.
So...what if we added this to Amphibious?
"Gain +25% Defense on Coasts"
So the idea is, when your unit lands, its going to take punishment, but units promoted for naval invasions can take a bit more pain, using the water to their advantage. And this means Special Forces and Marine units later game would automatically be better at performing naval invasions.
Thoughts?
Yeah, who needs a ship when you can swim!I wonder how well this proposed Amphibious change will stack with Songhai's Double Embarkation bonus? Would it make their Embarked Units more tanky than Ships?
How does extra defense while embarked help with naval invasion, which amphibious is supposed to do? Stalker0's proposal makes your step 1 "holding feet" easier because the amphibious doesn't take as much damage from defense before it can move inland.So, basic stuff is, opening one or two tiles for a sturdy melee unit to hold feet, keep killing units with the fleet, then widening the gap with the meat units and move ranged ones healers behind. Then proceed as usual.
@tu_79, I thought the amphib promo already did increase the durability of units when embarked, am I wrong?
I already make landings, but only I clear the area out with Navy.
I mean, I'm not really opposed to it. I just feel like the more common scenario with your proposal will be that if units receive defense boosts just from being on the coast that it will proc more often when you're doing conventional warfare, just with some units happening to be on the coast. I'm not sure if that's what you want.Thing is though you can clear the coast line with the navy but that’s not the problem. The problem is these units land, and lose the rest of their turn. Then the enemy bombs the crap out of them. Machine guns, city attacks, Calvary come in, etc. especially once you have railroads, you can focus huge amount of force into your coastline when enemy units attack. This is why invasions are so difficult, you are at an exceptional disadvantage once units land and your navy can no longer fully protect them
The promotion would give the units more staying power to take that landing barrage, so they actually have a chance to push inward
It's not like amphibious is a super common promotion, and it doesn't provide a combat strength bonus. It's well suited to defending exactly along the coast, which I guess also would include defending your own territory from naval invasion.I mean, I'm not really opposed to it. I just feel like the more common scenario with your proposal will be that if units receive defense boosts just from being on the coast that it will proc more often when you're doing conventional warfare, just with some units happening to be on the coast. I'm not sure if that's what you want.
I know, I was replying to @tu_79 about the defense bonus to embarked units.That’s not the proposal I am suggesting. I am saying “when the unit has come on to land, and is hugging the coast...they get the defense bonus”. The unit would have the same trigger as a coastal city.
My hope is that this change would not impact the embarked strength of a unit.
I think my use of the word coast confused a lot of people, so apologies for that.
@chicorbeef, I agree with march on infantry, -15% is quite a lot.