Going for Gold: Themeing Bonuses

[Stalker0]

Ok, I'll keep not caring about this part of the game.

That's the thing about getting towards the end of a project. You always keep thinking about the parts you wish you could change. But just like with any projects, there are aspects we don't like that another person greatly enjoys. The key is to make an experience that the vast majority enjoys. But it will never ever ever be perfect.

At this point, its time for mod mods to change some of the core systems that sections of the group wish to change, and let this project finally bake in.

 

[pineappledan]

From a certain perspective, the current system IS simplified, in that it allows buildings with theming to have more coherent flavors. The current system makes theming bonuses less consistent between theming bonuses, but allows theming bonuses to be more consistent with the building they come from.

Spoiler List of my proposed changes :

Theming Bonus Changes
Amphitheater/Acropolis global theme: 4 --> 2 (so 2 on all theming bonuses, no difference between foreign GWs and your own GWs)
Broadcast tower: 12 --> 8
Globe Theater: 4 --> 6
Royal Library: 2--> 4
Uffizi: 6 --> 10

Theming Yield Changes
Museum: 5 --> 4
Broadcast Tower: 15 --> 10
Oxford University: 3 --> 4
Royal Library: 3 --> 33
Hermitage: 5 --> 44
Notre Dame: 3 --> 33 or 33
Sistine Chapel: 5 --> 33
Broadway: 15 --> 20

Do those look fair?

 

[HungryForFood]

What's wrong with the current system? I'm not convinced there's a need for change.

 

[CppMaster]

What's wrong with the current system? I'm not convinced there's a need for change.

Imbalance.

 

[ElliotS]

From a certain perspective, the current system IS simplified, in that it allows buildings with theming to have more coherent flavors. The current system makes theming bonuses less consistent between theming bonuses, but allows theming bonuses to be more consistent with the building they come from.

Spoiler List of my proposed changes :

Theming Bonus Changes
Amphitheater/Acropolis global theme: 4 --> 2 (so 2 on all theming bonuses, no difference between foreign GWs and your own GWs)
Broadcast tower: 12 --> 8
Globe Theater: 4 --> 6
Royal Library: 2--> 4
Uffizi: 6 --> 10

Theming Yield Changes
Museum: 5 --> 4
Broadcast Tower: 15 --> 10
Oxford University: 3 --> 4
Royal Library: 3 --> 33
Hermitage: 5 --> 44
Notre Dame: 3 --> 33 or 33
Sistine Chapel: 5 --> 33
Broadway: 15 --> 20

Do those look fair?

Love it!

What's wrong with the current system? I'm not convinced there's a need for change.

Yeah there were some clearly imbalanced values, like regular buildings being better than wonders.

 

[ridjack]

The only comment that I could give on theming bonuses is that they continue to be one of the least interesting and easiest to ignore mechanics in the game. I either get theming bonuses or I don't, and I can't think of a single bonus I actually strive to get.

Whether that's good, bad or balanced I haven't the faintest idea.

 

[pineappledan]

The only comment that I could give on theming bonuses is that they continue to be one of the least interesting and easiest to ignore mechanics in the game. I either get theming bonuses or I don't, and I can't think of a single bonus I actually strive to get.

Whether that's good, bad or balanced I haven't the faintest idea.

Lol, well I care even less about pillaging values. It all needs to get done thoug

 

[ridjack]

Lol, well I care even less about pillaging values. It all needs to get done thoug

Oh, I don't disagree. Just putting out my thoughts on it while the thread is active.

 

[tu_79]

Lol, well I care even less about pillaging values. It all needs to get done thoug

That's why gold from pillaging is going to be buffed, so we can care. If pillaging around a city is worth an upgrade or two, then it matters. I mean, pillaging all that is possible makes more sense, even if the city is to be taken. If the gold is too low, then you only pillage what you need to make your units survive.

About theming, I remember first time I understood how that worked, back when I played vanilla, and for a while I was rather busy trying to find the optimus swapping that gave more tourism (that's what you really care when spamming great works, actually). The rest is icing. 'Swap and optimize' removes that work, so what's in there? Unless you are at war, you probably can trade for any great work you wish, so most buildings auto-theme themselves.

As I said, theming only serves to add value to buildings for a civ that wants/can spam great works. The mini-game of fulfilling requirements may as well not be there.

 

[Owlbebach]

From a certain perspective, the current system IS simplified, in that it allows buildings with theming to have more coherent flavors. The current system makes theming bonuses less consistent between theming bonuses, but allows theming bonuses to be more consistent with the building they come from.

Spoiler List of my proposed changes :

Theming Bonus Changes
Amphitheater/Acropolis global theme: 4 --> 2 (so 2 on all theming bonuses, no difference between foreign GWs and your own GWs)
Broadcast tower: 12 --> 8
Globe Theater: 4 --> 6
Royal Library: 2--> 4
Uffizi: 6 --> 10

Theming Yield Changes
Museum: 5 --> 4
Broadcast Tower: 15 --> 10
Oxford University: 3 --> 4
Royal Library: 3 --> 33
Hermitage: 5 --> 44
Notre Dame: 3 --> 33 or 33
Sistine Chapel: 5 --> 33
Broadway: 15 --> 20

Do those look fair?

I like it. Theming bonuses deserve some buffs and it is an indirect buff to Tradition / Artistry / Tourism play which was a bit behind lately (at least around Aprlil)

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I like the general thrust of Pineappledan's proposal on reworking the themeing bonuses.

 

[pineappledan]

@CrazyG

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I've literally never tried to get a theming bonus. By the stage of the game where I can start mussing about to get one, the yields just seem so underwhelming as to not be worth the effort. Am I missing something? It's genuinely an aspect of the game I haven't explored, and I keep finding that stuff I find underwhelming on paper is quite nice in practice.

 

[Minh Le]

I've literally never tried to get a theming bonus. By the stage of the game where I can start mussing about to get one, the yields just seem so underwhelming as to not be worth the effort. Am I missing something? It's genuinely an aspect of the game I haven't explored, and I keep finding that stuff I find underwhelming on paper is quite nice in practice.

Theming bonus provide equal amount of tourism, so it is very important to theme to get tourism.

 

[Rekk]

Tourism from static sources seems so negligible. One would think building a hotel a city with three holy sites wouldn't be a complete waste of time. Until you discover that the 15 culture is converted to 7.5 tourism, which is then dropped to 4.9 because you have a 6 city empire. That 4 tourism theming bonus? It's actually only 2.6 because of your cities. On the other hand I'm generating a great person every 10 turns or so at 630 tourism each, in addition to trade routes that each give 1300 tourism every 25 turns or so... the rate of return on instant tourism yields is so much higher than static yields.

 

[Minh Le]

Tourism from static sources seems so negligible. One would think building a hotel a city with three holy sites wouldn't be a complete waste of time. Until you discover that the 15 culture is converted to 7.5 tourism, which is then dropped to 4.9 because you have a 6 city empire. That 4 tourism theming bonus? It's actually only 2.6 because of your cities. On the other hand I'm generating a great person every 10 turns or so at 630 tourism each, in addition to trade routes that each give 1300 tourism every 25 turns or so... the rate of return on instant tourism yields is so much higher than static yields.

I thought instant tourism yield is base on your static sources? Like you have more tourism from TRs if you have more tourism output. Is this correct?

 

[Gazebo]

I thought instant tourism yield is base on your static sources? Like you have more tourism from TRs if you have more tourism output. Is this correct?

It is a combo of tourism and culture, yes.

 

[chicorbeef]

I've literally never tried to get a theming bonus. By the stage of the game where I can start mussing about to get one, the yields just seem so underwhelming as to not be worth the effort. Am I missing something? It's genuinely an aspect of the game I haven't explored, and I keep finding that stuff I find underwhelming on paper is quite nice in practice.

There's a "Swap/Optimize" button that will do theming bonuses for you. For stuff like Louvre/Hermitage, I'd definitely say it's worth it, it gives lots of Culture, and for stuff like Broadcast Towers....a potential +15 Gold in every city, on top of the +Culture/Tourism. Why not, it's free yields?

Theming bonuses always give +Culture/Tourism by default, btw...like I believe theming a Museum always gives you +4 Culture/Tourism, same with an Amphitheatre...the yields on Wonders stated from theming is just extra.

 

[tu_79]

Also, more golden age points from the great artist.

 

[Rekk]

It is a combo of tourism and culture, yes.

Thanks. I did not know this.