Going from Epic to Marathon

[Marshall Thomas]

In every campaign I have played so far, I have chosen epic speed. I've been please with this, but I wish the game would take longer and that units would not become obsolete as quickly as they do.

What effects does marathon speed have on gameplay? How does it effect the numbers of wars declared over the course of an entire game? What over changes should I expect from marathon? Thanks

 

[schekker]

I just started playing marathon (huge, continents, noble) and one thing I noticed is that barbarians really become a problem in the early game. While you (and the AI) get your units much slower, they seem to spawn at the same rate.

I liked to skip archery and go straight for axemen, often needing to beeline for iron working in case I had no bronze in the vincinity. On marathon I'm already facing barbarian archers before I can get to iron working.

 

[joasoze]

I play only marathon/raging barbarians (monarch) now and it is lovely. There is time for war before everything goes obsolete.

 

[SenhorDaGuerra]

i found the jump from epic to marathon way too big. going from 15 turns to discover a tech to like 40!!! nuts. well, maybe it just threw me, got to try it again!

I only played it once, and it completely threw me, cos i couldnt guage my timings, i didnt know if my science output was good, or not, if 15 turns to make a warrior was too much, too little or standard. it wierd, u grow used to how long something should take, then u do marathon, and that notion goes!

 

[DaLuni]

I love the fact that your units are more valuable now in the sense that they take longer to build and can be useful longer before they become obsolete. The only drawback is that the first 2000 years or so can be very dull, since all you do more or less is press Enter and wait for your worker to complete the improvements..

 

[Bobbalouie]

Marathon is my preferred play style. You'll have no obsoletion problems with it. You can be running 100% science with cottage/GP spam and you'll still not get techs fast enough to obsolete what you have before they're useful. I'm not sure if this is accurate, but it seems to me that while tech and buildings are completed at the same rate, relative to what they would be in a faster game, it feels like units have a reduced cost or creation time. It's possible that i'm just perceiving differences in the patches, havn't really played anything but marathon since it became an option.

 

[Pounder]

Since marathon came available, I have played nothing but marathon.

Much better game with marathon IMHO.

 

[Reg Pither]

Since marathon came available, I have played nothing but marathon.

Much better game with marathon IMHO.

Same here.

Although I have to admit I've tweaked it slightly to give even longer tech research, but more 'normal' improvement and production times. Lots of nice Ancient/Classical/Medieaval warfare, and not much of that pesky modern stuff...

 

[Ogrelord]

Well marathon on noble, your closest Ai neighbours can't handle a chop-swordsman rush....

When i play Marathon, i like the Civic combos "Representative" with "Caste System"... +3 beakers for every specialist. Your Science goes through the roof (that is if you have dedicated some citizens into specialist).

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Try marathon / huge/ aggressive AI settings....this generally results in more wars (but not too many) , and has the desired result for me of slowing down the AIs insane post middle age tech splurge, as all AI nations are forced to build troops and not just devote everything to science..

Barbs are much more of a nuisance on marathon, but on the plus side, all your early archers and axeman should get to "10 exp" easily, so send the rookies to the "barbarian front" to get that valuable xp"

 

[ellie]

Ive only played epic so far,, i was considering marathon

quick question though.

I understand that research might take..maybee a factor of 2 times the beakers to get a tech.

Do improvements / troops actually have a factor of 2 times longer to build as well ?.

I think the industrial age shoots past personally i usually have discoveries down to very few turns so have to switch civics to rush buy everything too keep up to date.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Ive only played epic so far,, i was considering marathon

quick question though.

I understand that research might take..maybee a factor of 2 times the beakers to get a tech.

Do improvements / troops actually have a factor of 2 times longer to build as well ?.

I think the industrial age shoots past personally i usually have discoveries down to very few turns so have to switch civics to rush buy everything too keep up to date.

Set against normal speed , marathon =

3 x research time
3 x buildings time
3 x improvements
2 x troop building
2 x Golden Age Length
Same movement cost / speed

Loads and loads and loads of turns

 

[Astat]

hmm only thing that kept me from playing marathon so far is the screwed timeline.. the developers decided not to introduce multiple turns per year, so time suddenly runs way too fast during 20th century. i am aware that most people will dismiss these considerations as irrelevant nonsense, but it feels wrong to me when just "our" very century that saw so much has the same pace as the previous industrial age...

 

[The Camel]

hmm only thing that kept me from playing marathon so far is the screwed timeline.. the developers decided not to introduce multiple turns per year, so time suddenly runs way too fast during 20th century. i am aware that most people will dismiss these considerations as irrelevant nonsense, but it feels wrong to me when just "our" very century that saw so much has the same pace as the previous industrial age...

"time stands still for noone." I am not sure who said that, but reading your post made me think of it. the reason being that 1800-1900 didnt go by any faster than 1900-2000. I understand that this is a game and we should be able to enjoy the parts we like most, but the only reason it goes so fast in the beginning is becuase the human race just wasn't very scientific then and didnt discover things faster. if they had then 3000 b.c.-2900 b.c. would be 100 turns. but if that were the case then a ton of techs would have to be added for balance, otherwise you would have a couple hundred turns in between techs. not trying to bash you or anything, just giving what 'may' be a reason for the developers choices.

 

[Astat]

err... yes?
it appears you didn't get my point. of course turns are extremely long (measured in years) in the beginning because the human race as such developed very slowly during the "dawn of man".

and civ always did a good job in portraying this aspect by reducing the amount of years per turn - but it fails in marathon.
look at what happend during the entire 19th century - we did more from 1975 to 2000, i say. but exactly this dynamic technological advance is lost in late-game marathons...

 

[ChrTh]

but exactly this dynamic technological advance is lost in late-game marathons...

Not precisely. Don't confuse the myriad number of incremental gains with the small number of practical gains. An ipod is a walkman playing a different media. The most important invention of the 20th century wasn't computers or the Internet, but air conditioning. The game has chosen to focus on the practicial technical advances, not all the little ones that are just improvements on an existing advance.

 

[Undertaker798]

Marathon games rule, I started my first a few hours ago actually.

 

[SlipperyJim]

I'm also a Marathon fan. Much more time for warmongering when my units don't go obsolete every 20 turns or so ... and I like warmongering.

The main thing about Marathon is to prepare for war. On faster speeds, if you see an invasion force headed your way, you can probably whip/chop/buy some quick troops to help the defense. If nothing else, you can get some sacrificial lambs to slow down the badguys. At Marathon speed, the quick defense is much less likely to be an option. If you don't have those troops at hand (or at least under production), you're going to suffer.

I also agree with the sentiment about Barbs on Marathon. Those early Barb Archers are a real problem when my best unit is still a Warrior! Again, you have to prepare for it, especially if you like to play with Raging Barbs.

There's another thread on Marathon timing, and how the AI doesn't seem to handle it so well:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=155262
That may be true. I could well be giving myself an unfair advantage by playing Noble/Marathon/Raging ... but it's still a fun game.

 

[Astat]

The most important invention of the 20th century wasn't computers or the Internet, but air conditioning.

yes. now imagine the Sun Belt with all the air conditioning it can have - without computers. nice cool living room after a hard day's work out at the farm...


SlipperyJim has mentioned an obvious problem of marathon games. i wonder - are there any other downsides?
still unsure whether to make my next game an epic or marathon one, but having the AI handle its military even worse doesn't sound all too promising anyway.
(even in epic, the AI enemies lose their momentum when you've managed to repell the initial onrush of their standing army)

 

[ChrTh]

yes. now imagine the Sun Belt with all the air conditioning it can have - without computers. nice cool living room after a hard day's work out at the farm...

This is going to come as a surprise for you, but people had jobs that weren't farm-based before computers were invented.

EDIT: And for those who doubt: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/censr-4.pdf ... pages 19-29 have the most pertinent information for regional changes. Notice on page 29 how Florida and California move up the top of the rankings over the course of the century. While California also benefitted from the interstate highway program (although it was already #2 in 1950, largely before the interstates were laid down), air conditioning made the bulk of this possible. And if you don't understand the implications, ask your high school to add a semester of political science.