Golden Ages

[rfxmills]

Maybe the Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal should be split into benefiting wide / tall empires.

One of them can give extra yields to each city during a GA, benefiting wide, and the other gives points to Specialists, benefiting tall.

Really like the points on specialists idea!

Me too, really good idea. points to Specialists would be work for Taj Mahal.

 

[pthmix]

Me too, really good idea. points to Specialists would be work for Taj Mahal.

Unfortunately Taj Mahal is at Printing Press, a tech which is not a priority for tall empires. I would not even try to get the Taj Mahal because you usually research the top of the tech tree first and are behind the AI when it comes to the bottom of the tree.

 

[albie_123]

Well, in all honesty, why IS Taj Mahal at printing press?

But I do understand your point. Chichen Itza is a much more likely candidate for the Tall bonus: I often find myself going for Civil Service when playing tall (Especially culture), it's in a very convenient spot.

 

[Seek]

That bonus on CI makes little sense to me though..

 

[pthmix]

On the other hand: there are a lot of good wonders in this paticular area of techs and I think putting the bonus on Chichen Itza would overload these techs with "good for tall" wonders. Just imagine a culture game: Stonehenge -> Oracle -> Hagia Sophia -> Chichen Itza -> maybe Porcelain Tower or Notre Dame
And you also want to build some National Wonders, get culture and tech and growth buildings and you may need to build some units...

Just a bit too much.

 

[Thalassicus]

Another thing to buff GA would be to let Happiness count towards the GA Bucked even if in GA. I think that was discussed already but I forgot the reason why it's not done?

I've just been busy with other priorities. I'd be okay with adding happiness to GA points each turn. I think it would take only a few minutes. A wonder adding +X% bonuses during golden ages would also be simple.

@albie_123
I'm honestly not sure if AIs use a city focus or not.

One of them can give extra yields to each city during a GA, benefiting wide, and the other gives points to Specialists, benefiting tall.

I'm uncertain how much work the specialist idea would take, but it should be feasible.

Unfortunately Taj Mahal is at Printing Press, a tech which is not a priority for tall empires.

What would be a better tech to place it on?

 

[rfxmills]

Well, in all honesty, why IS Taj Mahal at printing press?

Good point!

@albie_123
I'm honestly not sure if AIs use a city focus or not.

They probably use Standard for everything apart from puppets on Gold. So I think a flat 20% across the board will make behaviour consistent for humans and the AI.

What would be a better tech to place it on?

Engineering? I don't think that it being off the optimal path for tall empires should matter, the optimal path would have to change or you have to prioritise one over the other. The type of decisions we're always trying to introduce

 

[pthmix]

Swap it with the Kremlin or Forbidden Palace. Or even better: move the Kremlin to Banking, Taj Mahal to Acoustics and Forbidden Palace to Printing Press. That way wide empires which took the currency route get the Kremlin, tall empires get Taj Mahal and conquest empires get the Forbidden Palace.

Edit: rfxmills has a point about the decision of "Do I divert from the optimal path to get this wonder or not?".

 

[Seek]

Swap it with the Kremlin or Forbidden Palace. Or even better: move the Kremlin to Banking, Taj Mahal to Acoustics and Forbidden Palace to Printing Press. That way wide empires which took the currency route get the Kremlin, tall empires get Taj Mahal and conquest empires get the Forbidden Palace.

Edit: rfxmills has a point about the decision of "Do I divert from the optimal path to get his wonder or not?".

Yeah, there is already so much tech tree determinism in Civ5, I'd prefer it if we didn't add to it. One of VEM's core tenets is more interesting decisions, and enforcing basically three tech trees would detract from that.

But it's a tough call where to move the Taj Mahal (if we do) - maybe Chivalry?

 

[albie_123]

Why not Machinery? Chivalry already has the Himeji Castle wonder.

 

[Seek]

There were two reasons I thought Chivalry appropriate (which I guess I should have mentioned):
1. Chivalry - though it has a lot of "stuff" on it - is always low priority for me when going tall, and a wonder that affected specialists would make it more of a draw. I find Machinery to always be useful otoh, no matter what style I'm playing.
2. From wikipedia:

In 1631, Shah Jahan, emperor during the Mughal empire's period of greatest prosperity, was grief-stricken when his third wife, Mumtaz Mahal, died during the birth of their 14th child, Gauhara Begum. Construction of the Taj Mahal began in 1632. The court chronicles of Shah Jahan's grief illustrate the love story traditionally held as an inspiration for Taj Mahal.

Given that it was built for love, having it on Chivalry has great flavor, I think.

 

[albie_123]

Ah, there you go, I learned something new.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Seek]

Well I actually learned that from "An Idiot Abroad".

 

[rfxmills]

Well I actually learned that from "An Idiot Abroad".

Moving the Taj Mahal to Chivalry would have great flavour, however leaving Printing Press with only theatres wouldn't be an attractive tech!

I was going to suggest this for Persian UA, but I think it should apply to everyone, can we speeding up worker rate and border expansions during Golden Ages?

 

[albie_123]

Border expansions are directly affected by the +20% given by GA's.

Worker improvements is an okay idea, but "+20% " is so much more simple and intuitive than "+20% and faster worker improvement rates"

 

[pthmix]

And giving a golden age too many different effects is annoying to balance and leads to all effects being very small because otherwise it would be too strong.

 

[rfxmills]

Border expansions are directly affected by the +20% given by GA's.

Good point, I haven't played with the new rules yet, I'm stilling struggling along with only boosts

Worker improvements is an okay idea, but "+20% " is so much more simple and intuitive than "+20% and faster worker improvement rates"

To be fair that's only because there isn't a symbol worker improvement rate

 

[Txurce]

Maybe the Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal should be split into benefiting wide / tall empires.

One of them can give extra yields to each city during a GA, benefiting wide, and the other gives points to Specialists, benefiting tall.

I'm jumping onto this train's caboose.

I don't think that it being off the optimal path for tall empires should matter, the optimal path would have to change or you have to prioritise one over the other. The type of decisions we're always trying to introduce

Agreed.

 

[Stalker0]

I've just been busy with other priorities. I'd be okay with adding happiness to GA points each turn. I think it would take only a few minutes. A wonder adding +X% bonuses during golden ages would also be simple.

I'd be a big fan, it would also encourage me to have lots of happiness. Right now, happiness is useful until I get the GA, then its completely useless.