Gorgo - Advice?

[varus]

The idea of playing as Sparta just appeals to me. I loved Sparta in R2TW and I expect I'll love playing as them here as well. However, I'm rather addicted to Gilgamesh's ability to turn barbarians into Goody Huts.

Any advice on making the most of Sparta and Gorgo's abilities? I'm guessing a spear rush to the nearest AI capital or two would be the most obvious...

Should I focus on building the Acropoli? I haven't focused much on theaters in my playthroughs so far, but I've also found myself lagging in purple science.

 

[King Jason]

Well the main problem with spearmen as a unique is that the A.I. tends to spam warriors. Which means the special Hoplite ability is only making them break even. You're better off just building warriors and rushing the A.I. with that instead - they're cheaper and you have access to them earlier. That said, sometimes you get A.I. that spam War Chariots instead, in which case they're doomed.

In terms of purple science (lol) I quite agree, Theaters in every city definitely doesn't seem worth it - I tend to pick just a couple cities that will build a theater instead of a campus. Though Greece does have a leg-up here as the adjacency bonus to the city center is +2, which is huge, it's basically a free monument. So Any other civ with a theater adjacent to the city and one other district would generate +1 culture, Greece is +3.

Given the nature of Unique Districts being both free in terms of the pop cap as well as half cost - there's really no reason not to build one in every city unless you really need the spot for something else. So you'll zoom through the culture tree. The buildings aren't necessary, but you'll end up with a lot of spare writers.

However, one thing I enjoy doing is setting up a sort of "great works economy" - The A.I. will buy great works for a good amount, so you can sell off your excess. Simply sell the ones you have when you get a new writer. I'm on the fence as to whether this is exploitative or not though.

Far and away the best thing about Greece is their wildcard policy slot - this means you can run extra economy cards are a point in the game where you want to run most of them. It can also help with an early religion if you want too since you can run the Mysticism policy cards without needing Political philosophy.

 

[redwings1340]

I think Gorgo is probably a really good civ on higher difficulties, as it makes a long, drawn out war with the AI very profitable for you. They're probably also better at getting a religion if you want one because you can run the great prophet policy, or alternatively you can just get a bonus in early game production without sacrificing a pantheon.

 

[smartcanuck1988]

I played as Sparta on King and won by domination. I built exactly 2 Hoplites. I found them, as King Jason says, useless to the current situation. I do not recall making use of the acropolis, I didn't bother with culture in that game. But that extra policy slot was very powerful to have both +1 production and +gold and faith so early on.

 

[Securion]

Hoplites can be great if/when the AI/barbs are invading with horsemen.

 

[I_Am_King_Midas]

Well the main problem with spearmen as a unique is that the A.I. tends to spam warriors. Which means the special Hoplite ability is only making them break even.

Warriors have a strength of 20. Spearman 25. Hoplites can go to 35 with their unique ability.

Why do people have a strong dislike for them? It seems substantially better than a warrior.

 

[Rathelm]

If I recall correctly Greece's unique theatre district, the acropolis, has a requirement of being built on hills. It makes it rather difficult to get adjacency bonuses. And it's not impossible to have no hills within a cities borders.

 

[Napalmeon]

Warriors have a strength of 20. Spearman 25. Hoplites can go to 35 with their unique ability.

Why do people have a strong dislike for them? It seems substantially better than a warrior.

Because spearmen, and hoplites lose 10 power against warriors. So a hoplite is only getting 5 extra power vs a warrior, for a substantially higher production cost. Getting a regular spearman is losing 5 power vs a warrior for substantially higher production. None of that would be a huge deal if the AI didn't seem to build warriors exclusively during the time spearmen are relevant.

 

[Roxlimn]

Hoplites are relatively weak against Warriors. Against Hoplites, Warriors are Strength 30, Spearmen 25. Horsemen are still 35, but Hoplites can go up to 45 Strength against them so they're going to die. With a single promotion (thrust), Hoplites can also go up to 45 Strength against Warrior 30, so they're actually commanding in the Ancient Era provided that you always keep two of them together and you make sure you engage right. Against Warriors, you should attacks with Archers and defend with Hoplites for the extra Strength from Fortification, until you get Thrust at which point you can just roll them over as usual. Against cities, 35 Strength is remarkable - the bases for Horseman-rushing in the early Eras, except that Hoplites can come online ten turns earlier. I've rushed with Gorgo at turn 35, Standard, with two Hoplites and one more on the way. Only Sumeria is faster.

 

[paz_paz]

Played Gorgo and had a blast.
Hoplites are great, I started a war when I had three and our armies were competent.
You obviously don't attack warriors with hoplites ... you fortify in hills and forest and don't move while the archers do the rest. AI does build some heavy cavallery, so hoplites can do both jobs ... defending vs warriors and defending vs. cav.

The best thing however is the additional policy slot + culture from kills. I beelined mercenaries and nationalism. Of course the 1st war in ancient times was successful, so the game was basically over anyway. But rushing through the civic tree felt really good.

Tech wise I made sure to build an encampment in the capital and I think I build campus very late. I did build an acropolis here or there, but only after commercial district or encampment or later, industrial. But even with not every city having culture buildings ... nationalism was reached very early and my hoplite corps guarded the capital for the rest of the game

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I haven't played Greece yet, but I will soon. It looks like hoplites (if used properly) will make it easier to repel early AI attacks AND make it easier to take some AI territory early. That's a decent bonus but clearly the extra wildcard is the one that makes them so flexible. I'm not in love with the acropolis because I like hills for mines, but I'm sure the unique district is still a strong advantage even if it does mean sacrificing some production. Having a strong culture game pays off in a number of ways. Gorgo is attractive because her bonuses should make it a lot easier to take some cities and other goodies from an AI in the early game while getting rewarded with culture for doing it. That suits me because regardless of victory type I've always been in favor of taking out a neighbor early, especially in the name of expansion.

 

[Gtdead]

Hoplites are pretty strong. No matter what. Even against warriors, just grab the thrust upgrade. My problem with them is how they transition into the later eras. I don't like pikemen too much. I only tech them when I cant get Iron at all.

I'd much rather have a unit that upgrades to muskets and then infrantry and finish the game, rather than having to tech up to bazookas. And bazookas are pretty crap in my experience.

 

[Chibisuke]

I just started a deity game with Gorgo. It is the only deity game I've ever gotten the great library. Gorgo is orobably the only leader where player can get great library on deity, due to culture rush. So far it's a solid game though I have a good start location. Started far away from Sumeria, Ghandi is a neighbor. Was able to steal a Sumeria settler in Ghandi territory and escape.

 

[Ryika]

You obviously don't attack warriors with hoplites ... you fortify in hills and forest and don't move while the archers do the rest.

Then what do you have Hoplites for if they just sit around?
Just get Warriors, and pay 25 less Production, and 1 Gold less Maintenance.

Not that Hoplites are a terrible unit, but they certainly don't win the cost-benefit analysis in my book. Unique Melee Units really have to be something special to be worth something, like Rome's Legion that allows you to completely alter your playstyle and instead of defending and waiting for your ranged units to kill everything actively ram into stuff. The Hoplite doesn't do that at all. They're just a much more expensive, and, unless the opponent has tons of cavalry, slightly stronger Warrior.

 

[Chibisuke]

Oh yea, and so far I haven't made a single hoplite. Just archers and swordsmen

 

[Browd]

Hoplites are a godsend if you spawn next to Sumeria, or any civ that chooses to spam horsemen. In my last Greek game (deity), I spawned on a continent with just Sumeria and Germany, who chose the horseman spam option. I recall using 11 Hoplites, one battering ram and one catapult (later upgraded my starting warrior to a swordsman) to clear the continent.

 

[Furycrab]

Then what do you have Hoplites for if they just sit around?
Just get Warriors, and pay 25 less Production, and 1 Gold less Maintenance.

Not that Hoplites are a terrible unit, but they certainly don't win the cost-benefit analysis in my book. Unique Melee Units really have to be something special to be worth something, like Rome's Legion that allows you to completely alter your playstyle and instead of defending and waiting for your ranged units to kill everything actively ram into stuff. The Hoplite doesn't do that at all. They're just a much more expensive, and, unless the opponent has tons of cavalry, slightly stronger Warrior.

I'm not sure what to think of them. The thing is they have this window where they just smash things. You make 3 of them, walk em in a line, stuff dies... Archers end up doing less than 20 damage a shot to them. You smash chariot initiatives. Then you come around the city with 3 or 4 of them and you just destroy cities very efficiently up until almost Renaissance when cities start to have around 40 strength. Oh and 1 promotion and they can handle everything up to I want to say Legions just fine.

I think you compare them to the wrong unit IMO. Warriors are 20 cheaper, but these guys are 25 cheaper than a Sword, and with one promotion and kept in formation they can fight swords.

Edit: Just want to add... The downside to them IMO is this. Once people work their way out of Classical and start getting Crossbows or Knights and tougher cities, upgrading to Pikes isn't much of an upgrade and it's a dead end tech.

 

[Roxlimn]

I think there's this weird thing where people have this experience where the Deity AI apparently likes spamming Warriors. Some of them do, but not all of them, and Tomyris in particular has a specific preference for Horsemen. Heck, Horsemen are the most dangerous Barbarian unit for a good while in Classical. They're not that special against Warriors, though they're still stronger, which is saying something, because Melee is counter for AntiCav.

But against Archers and Cities, they're basically resourceless Swordsmen that are cheaper to make and earlier to produce. That's something. All you have to do is wipe Warriors with Archers, and you were going to do that, anyway.

 

[DrJones87]

The idea of playing as Sparta just appeals to me. I loved Sparta in R2TW and I expect I'll love playing as them here as well. However, I'm rather addicted to Gilgamesh's ability to turn barbarians into Goody Huts.

Any advice on making the most of Sparta and Gorgo's abilities? I'm guessing a spear rush to the nearest AI capital or two would be the most obvious...

Should I focus on building the Acropoli? I haven't focused much on theaters in my playthroughs so far, but I've also found myself lagging in purple science.

Don't forget to put a battering ram on the hoplite too. They get a huge power boost at promotion rank 2, and really become problematic.

In general, Gorgo is probably one of the strongest leaders currently just because of how aggressive the AI is. She profits tremendously from constant war.

 

[Francis Xavier]

The +1 policy slot is ridiculously powerful. My deity win with Gorgo was on a random map - which ended up I think as continents or fractal, I ended up on a sizeable land mass alone, and played the science victory game (I was hemming and hawing science vs culture the whole game, in the end because of my indecisiveness, science was a faster turn win).

Hoplites in that scenario was good for conquering an early city state, and mostly just holding the line against barbarians for some culture farm.

But man o man that extra policy slot, that allowed beelining for wonders and tech that kept everything competitive without any war at all in that game (China was the only culture and science threat to victory, but China being boxed in by Germany and in constant war kept a check on that).

I ended up stacking her unique ability with the forbidden palace, which just created a ridiculously powerful government. (That's two extra wildcard policies for free).

As an AI, Gorgo almost always ends up my ally, because of her fondness for war and my usual inevitability in waging war to knock off potential run away civs.