GOTM-03: Second Spoiler

Played contender, luckily got the oracle chopped before the AIs, in 600 BC which allowed me to get civil service. I think the first samurais showed up before 1AD.

Some cottage spam + Code of Law + Civil Service in 600 Bc meant a huge tech lead for the rest of the game.

Burned the egyptians to ashes, then monty, the incas and the indians. In the meantime i stealed two cities to saladin, thinking that my old samurais from the war against the egyptians were bored.

Domination in 1435, around 122 k... I am pretty happy.

BUT... That was my second attempt... In the first one, i got beaten to the Oracle (built around 950 Bc... how soon). That delayed awfully the samurais, and I got stuck in my wars against monty (those war elephants were a pain). When it was over. I realized that Saladin and Ashoka were 8 techs ahead of me. I decided to gave up. I have practiced a whole week-end to get a good score, not to beat them in the 1800s!!!

Of course, i won't submit any games.
 
Fifteenpiece said:
Lessons learned:

- an early dead Monty is a good Monty
:lol: :lol:

At the end of my first spoiler, I had just made peace with Monty.

From 510-1010: building infrastructure, spreading Christianity to my cities, researching to Samurai, building my Sami army (and cats), getting them to the border with Hatty. I don't think there is much value in posting all of the gory details, so I'll focus on major events only.
From 1010-end of game: Pretty close to total war. Had a couple of short breaks to heal and reposition.

Turn 187 (570 AD)
Switch to Hereditary and Organized Religion
Turn 188 (580 AD)
Adopt Christianity as State Religion.
Turn 189 (590 AD)
Chuang-Tzu (Great Prophet) born in Tokyo
Turn 193 (630 AD)
Osaka finishes: The Church of the Nativity
Turn 199 (690 AD)
Razed Ainu (barb)
Turn 201 (710 AD)
Trade for: Feudalism,Horseback Riding
Switch to Vassalage and Serfdom
Turn 202 (720 AD)
Tech learned: Civil Service - Sami Time! turn down research so I can begin upgrading units to Samis.
Turn 212 (820 AD)
Razed Phrygian (barb)
Turn 216 (860 AD)
Tenochtitlan begins: Forbidden Palace
Turn 220 (900 AD)
Razed Avar (barb)
Nara founded - near site of Avar, filling space to to the north of my core.
Turn 225 (950 AD)
Tech learned: Guilds - and start building some knights, researching gunpowder next, then will head for Miltrad.
Turn 226 (960 AD)
Tenochtitlan finishes: Forbidden Palace
Turn 227 (970 AD)
Trade for: Literature, Compass
Turn 232 (1010 AD)
Ready to rumble... declare war on Hatty.
Turn 234 (1020 AD)
Captured Heliopolis (Hatshepsut)
Captured Pi-Ramesses (Hatshepsut)
Turn 241 (1055 AD)
Captured Thebes (Hatshepsut) - along with Stonehenge, Great Library, Mahabodhi which is earning 18 gpt.
Tenochtitlan finishes: Heroic Epic
Turn 242 (1060 AD)
Razed Navajo (barb)
Tech learned: Gunpowder
Turn 248 (1090 AD)
Captured Elephantine (Hatshepsut)
Turn 252 (1110 AD)
Tech learned: Music
Turn 255 (1125 AD)
Figure that since I'm developing war weariness by warring with Egypt, I might as well get Monty into the fun. Declare on Monty. Figure I can finish him off about the same time as Hatty.
Turn 256 (1130 AD)
Razed Atzcapotzalco (Monty)
Captured Memphis (Hatshepsut)
Turn 258 (1140 AD)
Captured Teotihuacan (Montezuma)
Turn 261 (1155 AD)
Captured Texcoco (Montezuma)
Captured Alexandria (Hatshepsut)
Monty and Hatty now each have 1 city left. Figure I'll extort some techs for peace. Hatty gets the message:
Trade peace with Hatty for: Engineering, Drama
Tech learned: Philosophy
Monty won't give any techs... oh well, guess I'll need to find his last city (in the FOW hiding behind the Incas)
Turn 265 (1175 AD)
Razed Tlaxcala Bye-bye Monty!

1180-1245: Take a short breath to heal units before next war.

Turn 266 (1180 AD)
Memphis begins: The Hanging Gardens
Turn 267 (1185 AD)
St. Paul (Great Prophet) born in Tokyo
Turn 268 (1190 AD)
Razed Gaul (barb)
Turn 269 (1195 AD)
Edo finishes: The Kong Miao
Turn 270 (1200 AD)
Memphis finishes: The Hanging Gardens
Turn 275 (1225 AD)
Razed Teoihuacan (barb)
Turn 278 (1240 AD)
Tech learned: Nationalism
Turn 279 (1245 AD)
Declare on Huayna Capac
Declare on Hatty
Razed Vitcos (Huayna Capac)
Turn 282 (1260 AD)
Razed Giza - Hatty is gone!
Turn 283 (1265 AD)
Captured Corihuayrachina (Huayna Capac) - includes Sistine Chapel
Turn 287 (1285 AD)
Declare on Arabia.
Rabbi Akiva (Great Prophet) born in Thebes
Turn 288 (1290 AD)
Razed Anjar (Saladin)
Turn 291 (1305 AD)
Razed Fustat (Saladin)
Captured Baghdad (Saladin)
Turn 292 (1310 AD)
Captured Tiwanaku (Huayna Capac)
Turn 294 (1320 AD)
Razed Hurrian (barb)
Captured Machu Picchu (Huayna Capac)
Turn 295 (1325 AD)
buy World Map from Asoka for 310g... want to start to plan the end game.
Turn 296 (1330 AD)
Captured Andahuaylas (Huayna Capac)
Turn 298 (1340 AD)
Captured Mecca (Saladin) - along with Angkor Wat
Razed Vilcabamba (Huayna Capac)
Turn 301 (1355 AD)
Captured Vilcas (Huayna Capac)
Turn 302 (1360 AD)
Trade for: Paper
Turn 303 (1365 AD)
Captured Kufah (Saladin) - along with Notre Dame
Turn 305 (1375 AD)
Captured Cuzco (Huayna Capac) - along with Pyramids and Chichen Itza
Turn 306 (1380 AD)
Captured Medina (Saladin) - along with Great Lighthouse

At this point, I am around 50% of land. Not sure how the close to the domination limit I should get, decide to be conservative. Gonna start razing everything I capture from here out.

Turn 309 (1395 AD)
Razed Damascus (Saladin)
Turn 310 (1400 AD)
Razed Huamanga (Huayna Capac)
Turn 311 (1405 AD)
Razed Ica (Huayna Capac)
Turn 312 (1410 AD)
Razed Ligurian (barb)
Razed Basra (Saladin)
Razed Aden (Saladin)
Time for a rest, and getting close to Miltrad. So, make peace with the remnants of Inca and Arabia.
Trade peace to Inca for: Banking, Divine Right
Trade peace to Saladin for: Optics
Tech learned: Military Tradition
Turn down research to allow promotion to cavs.

1410-1480: Building and promoting cavs and cats.

Turn 325 (1475 AD)
Switch to Police State
Turn 326 (1480 AD)
OK! Off we go:
Declare on India.
Declare on Inca.
Declare on Arabia.
Razed Hyderabad (Asoka)
Razed Jaipur (Asoka)
Turn 329 (1495 AD)
Razed Lahore (Asoka)
Razed Khurasan (Saladin)
Razed Najran (Saladin) - Adios Saladin!
Turn 330 (1500 AD)
Razed Ollantaytambo (Huayna Capac) - Huayna gone!
Turn 332 (1510 AD)
With most of the rif raf out of the way, declare on England.
Razed Oxford (Victoria)
Razed Liverpool (Victoria)
Turn 333 (1515 AD)
Razed Calcutta (Asoka)
Turn 334 (1520 AD)
Razed Cuman (Victoria)
Razed Shangian (barb)
Turn 335 (1525 AD)
Razed Kolhapur (Asoka)
Turn 336 (1530 AD)
Razed Newcastle (Victoria)
Turn 338 (1540 AD)
Razed Hastings (Victoria)
Razed Delhi (Asoka)
OK, right about now, I realized cavs being built in distant cities were not able to get to the battlefield in time. Decide I can improve my score by building some wonders and getting research up. Switch most cities to beakers, except a few:
Tokyo begins: National Epic
Pi-Ramesses begins: The Colossus
Tlatelolco begins: West Point
Al-Khwarizmi (Great Scientist) born in Thebes
Turn 339 (1545 AD)
Satsuma begins: The Taj Mahal
Captured Bombay (Asoka) - has lots of trees, thinking I can chop out a wonder. (Turns out to be futile, the game won't last that long).
Golden Age begins - used my two GP's.
Razed Canterbury (Victoria)
Tech learned: Chemistry
Turn 340 (1550 AD)
Razed Coventry (Victoria)
Turn 342 (1560 AD)
Captured Bangalore (Asoka)- I'm still only around 53% of land, decide I should be keeping some of these cities. Also get Spiral Minuret. Only able to move 1 unit into Bangalore (captured it with my last available attacker).
Bangalore lost - :lol: , with her cities crumbling, Vicky sends a knight to capture Bangalore, even though my stack is sitting next door to it.
Turn 343 (1565 AD)
Captured Bangalore (Victoria)
Razed Warwick (Victoria)
Tech learned: Printing Press
Pi-Ramesses finishes: The Colossus
Turn 344 (1570 AD)
Research begun: Education
Captured Karachi (Asoka) - Asoka Done!
Captured Nottingham (Victoria) - including Versailles
Thebes finishes: Hermitage
Turn 345 (1575 AD)
Captured London (Victoria) - and Parthenon
Tokyo finishes: National Epic
Turn 347 (1585 AD)
Research begun: Liberalism
Captured York (Victoria)
Turn 348 (1590 AD)
Conquest Victory, base score = 3891, final score = 75215

Lessons Learned:

- From 510-1010, I think I built too much infrastructure. Should have just jammed out military and kept hammering.
- I was too conservative in building overwhelming forces... I think I could have shaved lots of time off it I started my wars a little sooner.
- I got so fixated on conquest that I totally forgot about score. I should have been building wonders, growing population, and pushing research much earlier.
- I didn't expect the AI to fold so quickly at the end. I was building cavs thinking I had many turns to go. Most of the cavs I built towards the end never reached the battles (and weren't needed anyhow).
- I'd never tried conquest before, didn't time the ending very well. Razed too many cities, only finished with around 54% of land. Could have increased my score by keeping more cities at the end.
- I had 3-4 wonders almost built when I finished, but saw no reason to wait for them to milk the score. At that point, I knew my score was gonna stink anyhow.
 
contender class --domination 1842 score 52K

notable points: (mostly blunders and a bad gamble)

1. decided to gamble on a better location for starting city and not found on the popular plains hill. Didn't find anything better and was back there losing 6 turns. Not sure if that was bad strategy or just bad luck that I didn't find anything better. Comments?

2. sent first worker to a spot I thought was covered but one square was in fog and barb took worker. so was pretty disgusted with my opening as I had not yet completed first settler.

3. When I finished off Monty, his last city was in the NE corner surrounded by Inca. I razed the city which got me bad relations with Inca that I didn't want and stranded my stack which I could then not upgrade. Didn't notice that it was originally an Inca city.

4. In my Inca war I lost a whole stack of veteran infantry --thought I was pretty safe as they had only cannon and rifle. Got hit with maybe 8 cannon and then my group was toast. Had an idea for later wars--just declare and wait for the AI to send their army at you--that way you don't get hit with the stack killers and you can use roads/rr to take out the bulk of their army.
Tried it for 2 more wars and worked pretty well--I guess there are a few lost turns waiting for the AI to get to you. Would appreciate feedback on this idea.

Overall not a particularly exciting or satisfying game as I started so poorly.
Most of the time playing I knew I was headed to victory with a bad score--not that I ever rate to get a good one even if I improve as
in general I tend to lose interest in games once the outcome has been decided.
 
Just submited.

Contender, Domination in 1640.

Had trouble getting the replay/save files because the game crashed saying "your movies are not properly installed" right after the victory. Tried reloading the turn just before victory (I had saved after that turn, so just needed to re-load and hit "next turn"; no spoiler issues), and the problem keep reoccuring. Finnaly, I had to resort to removing the movie files completly to get it to work. Somewhat annoying!

Anyway.... As I said in the first spoiler thread, this is only my second game (the 1st a duel) at this level, and also my firts GOTM. I was not expecting much, and was suprised how well it went.

Picking up where I left off in the privouse thread... Around 600 AD, Samuries started rolling of the assembly line, and I finished rolling up Monty anf pushed through Inca land as well. During this time, I beat everyone to Liberalism, choose Nationalism as my free tech, and traded everything except nationalism as needed to catch up in all techs (while still holding on Nationalism exclusively). I quickly researched mil-tradition, and started pumping out Cavalry and cannon.

At this point, I bassically shut of my research programm, converted to full millitary production, and just kept pushing around the map. Osaka was defending with longbowman, and was barely a speed bump. Vicky prooved more resiliant with a combination of Musketman and War elephants dealing significant loss to my first wave. Still, by this stage I had at least a 2 to 1 production edge, and attrition was clearly going to fall in my favour. After maybe 10-15 turn, her defence crumbled, and I quiclky swept to the domination limit.

I ended up with 89675 (says my game, the upload form gives me 89672 ?) I did not milk, as I find the idea boring, and I dont suspect that score will end up as anything all that special in any event.

Hatty was a good friend all game (getting up to +17 before I declared on Vicky, which she didnt like, and knocked me down to ~+14), and there were bassically no wars, other than my attackes, and attacked of Saladin on Vicki's west front, which I kept briding him to do so that should would be fighting a two front war.
 
Thanks to Shadow2k, Gato, Sparts & Scuba, I tried replaying to see how I'd do with a bit better choices at the start. Of course, you just cost me about 10 hours of my life. :) I made nice with Monty and took Hatty down quickly with swords. This worked a whole lot better. My only problem was that I stalled out right after busting up Hatty. My tech was down to 0% for a while as I was researching CoL.

I'm curious as people are killing Monty or Hatty in early game, how many cities are you ending up with? Are you razing half or so? And how do you keep from econ stalling you out. Of do I need to just time it better with CoL?

I may have blown it by filling in a couple spots as I killed Hatty to have 6 cities I founded plus 5 conquered (I think).
 
For my part, I took only 4 of Montys cities, and then sued for peace (leaving another 3 or 4 standing). I did this to be able to keep science at ~50%. I had the millitary option of sweeping him up at this stage, but it would have stalled my economy. Having taken half his empire, including his capital, I knew that he was too baddly hobbled to ever recover, and that I could come back at my leisure and take the remaining cities when I had grown into them economically.
 
Doc TK said:
I'm curious as people are killing Monty or Hatty in early game, how many cities are you ending up with? Are you razing half or so? And how do you keep from econ stalling you out. Of do I need to just time it better with CoL?

I may have blown it by filling in a couple spots as I killed Hatty to have 6 cities I founded plus 5 conquered (I think).

Basically when my Swordsmen, then Samurai, then Grenadiers started rolling, there was no way back. For a large part my research was funden by the spoils of war. Mostly what I got from conquering cities, but pillaging cottages while waiting for other soldiers to heal did occur. Especially in the early game, as my core cities (the four or so with worthwhile buildings) was still in development, I trashed a large part of the cities I conquered, only keeping the best. On a few occasions I sent out some settles to fill up the land, but on one occasion a barbarian city even popped up in previously conquered territory.
 
I had a terrible time in this one. I also had a terrible time going through all the spoilers, figuring out what went different and all, as it seems that it only takes very small differences to make a huge impact on the ending. I could be wrong, but I would say that my mistake was capturing cities vs razing them. Does this have an impact on your economy? I only ask cause my economy plunged into the nether worlds and in turn, my military and research capabilities were fried. Suggestions?
 
Doc TK said:
I'm curious as people are killing Monty or Hatty in early game, how many cities are you ending up with? Are you razing half or so? And how do you keep from econ stalling you out. Of do I need to just time it better with CoL?

I may have blown it by filling in a couple spots as I killed Hatty to have 6 cities I founded plus 5 conquered (I think).

I captured five cities from Hatty in the first war, and already had built six. I only razed one AI city all game (and one barb city), and it was one of Hatty's that she settled right in front of advancing troops, so it auto-razed.

I had CoL before attacking, allowing me to chop courthouses (half price) in newly conquered cities. I used Caste System to pop borders the turn they came out of resistance, then merchants to offset any upkeep. I also got currency during the first war, allowing me to get all her cash in peace, trade techs for cash with others, and ask for cash in tribute. But also, one of the main reasons I went for Hatty first, was her religions...two shrines for a total of 28gpt.

One of the other things mentioned, is don't stop. I had a short peace with Hatty before finishing her off, then an even shorter period of peace before going after Monty. I wasn't at peace again until four turns before the win. So I was constantly getting cash from captured cities.
 
I played a couple of practice games because I hadn't played Monarch before this level and never warmongered successfully. However, in one practice game, I got my highest score ever doing just that. I thought one of the reasons for my success was having copper in my capital radius and having axemen. My goal in this game was to duplicate/improve upon that game.

Like many others, I went to the plain hills to settle. Then I saw gold and I was kicking myself for not founding the city on it.

So I did something stupid but it paid off. I decided to make my first build a settler. And this is where I got tremendous luck. My warrior found a hut which gave me a scout! The scout found a hut which gave me Bronze Working! And right near the gold was copper! I decided to found Osaka on the gold. Went for Pottery, Writing and then Alphabet. And chopped for a library to expand the borders to include the copper. Soon, my axemen would be ready to protect my cities, steal workers and warmonger.

A lot of the city radii of Kyoto and Osaka overlapped and I tried to take advantage of it. On some turns, one city would use farmed land and mined hills to produce units or buildings while the other would work the cottages, and then vice versa. But there was enough hammer, food and commerce to go around in that space to build my empire.

That scout didn't survive long so I didn't have much of the map visible. Hatshepsut was the first victim/civ I saw. She was my first target.

I built two workers (one in each city) to connect the copper, build mines, cottages and for chopping. Obviously I needed more and the Egyptians have always had many slaves so I didn't think they'd mind if I "borrowed" a few. Well, that led to war and me taking Heliopolis from them. What a wonderful spot too! Cows, Ivory and plain hills on a river! I'd sue for peace and then attack and this went on and off until I wiped her out.

Unfortunately, a couple of her cities and barb cities got autorazed. Maybe that worked out well for me as it didn't completely kill my research, but I would've preferred to keep building military unites instead of having to build settlers everywhere to wipe out the fog. Worse still, later, I had an Indian and English city in my territory and they're just a nuisance.

Soon after I finished her off, I went for Montezuma. I used a very small force (no more than 15 axemen and swordmen altogether, including losses) to wipe out Hatshepsut and I knew that wouldn't be enough. So I had to build more forces as well as bring the vetern troops from the SW corner of the map to the NW part and spotted to strike.

I took a couple cities but I knew I had to get better units. I had few Crossbowmen at this time and his horse archers and Jaguars were preventing me from sweeping through his countryside. As soon as I got Civil Service and switched to Beauracracy, I had two cities quicking churning out Samurais (Kyoto capital, and Heliopolis with Heroic Epic).

This time, the warring went much easier. I took several of his cities. Sued for peace. Then attacked 10 turns later and finished him off.

But before the second declaration of war, I started a war with Saladin on the south. A couple Egyptian cities had become very productive cities and were quickly building units of their own. Victoria wasn't happy with him and I joined her war. What's odd everyone was always pleased with me right until I attacked them. And sometimes, even AFTER I attacked them and sued for peace, they'd remain cautious!

Anyway, I didn't have a huge force to start rampaging so the fight with Saladin needed some time to pick up steam. I took a couple cities, sued for peace and then regrouped. Then I took some more cities, sued for peace before the final war to end him. During this war, Huayna asked me to join him against the Indians. I obliged. First reason was to eradicate that nuisance city they planted in my territory. Second reason was to make use of the veterans that wiped of the Aztecs. Third was to position my troops to attack Victoria from the North while the forces that killed Saladin would attack from the West.

I waited to attack the English until my cities returned from resistance. And I did use the "exploit" of having all the citizens be artists (with Caste Systems) so that the cultural borders would expand on their first turn.

The war with Victoria was interesting. A two front attack can be beneficial for various reasons, but the cities to the north of her were Indian cities that were just getting courthouses, granaries, barracks and stuff out. And almost all my samurai are city raiders, except a few that are medics. Each medic usually has shock or cover and some have Formation. So while these stacks are great for taking cities, they're absolute bad in the open field or defending cities.

So I abandoned Calcutta to save some units and formed a group to attack Coventry. From the west, I took Oxford and Anjar. However, I didn't plan well and was late on taking over Warwick. This meant the guys in Coventy weren't getting defended soon enough, so I abandoned that city too and sent guys back to Madras and Bangalore. Victoria completely pillaged those areas, but I was happy to just hold on to those cities. Soon, I was able to regain Coventry as well as Nottingham and Newcastle. Then I sued for peace and she threw in Calcutta.

At 1315, I had a Great Artist in Nottingham, but I wanted to use him on London. I had enough forces to take London, Canterbuy AND Hastings within three turns of declaring war. But with all the culture I was building all over the map, I won Domination before I could re-declare war :(

Wonders built: very few.
1035 CE Great Library
1250 CE Hanging Gardens
1320 CE Colossus
1330 CE Versailles

Comments: Except Great Library they didn't matter. I had a GP farm in Thebes and it was my science center because I didn't have science anywhere else. With GL and caste systems, most specialists were scientists. The Hanging Gardens was the one thing I did to boost my score.

Revolutions:
630 CE Revolution for Bureaucracy
990 CE Revolution for Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, Serfdom, Theocracy
1120 CE Revolution for Hinduism
1130 CE Revolution for Caste System

Comments: I got theology for Theocracy, but I didn't have a religion until 200 years afterwards! However the rest of the decisions made sense. Bureacracy as soon as possible because my capital was crucial in pumping out units and research due to cottages. Once warring began:
a) it was hereditary Rule or Despotism
b) How many units are being pumped out elsewhere vs significance of research in Kyoto and speed of pumping out Samurai far away from any battlefield. Vassalage wins.
c) Serfdom needed to rapidly chop for courthouses, barracks and granaries. After most of that done, I went to Caste Systems to pump out artists in new cities to expand culture (to boost land area to speed the ending of the game).
d) Never got banking so always Decentralization
e) For warring, especially early, Theocracy is a no brainer

Research order: All other techs were through trading:
3560 BCE Mining
3520 BCE BW
3040 BCE Pottery
2400 BCE Writing
1400 BCE Alphabet
1000 BCE IW
520 BCE Metal Casting
360 BCE Literature
80 CE Machinery
280 CE Code of Laws
620 CE Civil Service
750 CE Theology
890 CE Feudalism
970 CE Drama
1105 CE Engineering
1185 CE Paper
1265 CE Divine Rights

Through trading, in no particular order:
Agriculture, Hunting, Animal Husbandry, Sailing, Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism, Archery, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Mathematics, Monarchy, Compass, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Optics, Music, Philosophy

Comments: I got really lucky with Bronze Working, but I think I did well in regards to when I traded techs and with whom. Trade techs to keep good relations or with certain civs because you think they'll get it soon regardless or wait to trade because you want them to spend time on it.

Also, in regards to the order of trading techs. I went for mining and BW first (would've done so even if not gifted from the hut) because I wanted to place my second city near copper. That was central to my plan. After Alphabet, I could get the techs I skipped and then went for Iron Working to make sure I could place a city near it. Fortunately, with iron near Kyoto, I could use that settler elsewhere. I went for Metal Casting to build forges and then Literature for the Heroic Epic. Soon, Helopolis was churning out units ever two turns. I went for Machinery next because I knew I couldn't get Samurais soon, but Crossbowmen would be lethal against Axemen/Swordsmen/Jaguars.

Then the direction was CoL and Civil Service to get the wonderful Samurais. I foolishly got Theology when drama would've made more sense. I still needed to expand culture/borders to reduce Fog of War. Building libraries everywhere made no sense and I didn't have religion to expand. I should've waited to learn Theology after Engineering. As the war expanded, I needed the extra movements to move Samurais out to the war front. And I didn't convert to Hinduism until 1120!

Barbarians
80 CE Saxon autorazed
800 CE Goth
1075 CE Khazak

Egyptian wars with Hatshepsut:
780 BCE declared war
700 BCE Heliopolis (became my military production central)
560 BCE Elephantine autorazed
340 BCE declared war
300 BCE Thebes (became my GP farm)
60 CE Alexandria autorazed
20 BCE Memphis (with forbidden palace, center of southern empire)

Aztec wars with Montezuma:
300 CE declared war
310 CE Tlaxcala
420 CE Tlatelolco
660 CE declared war
770 CE Xochicalco
870 CE Teotihuacan
900 CE Tlacopan autorazed
910 CE Tenochtitlan
1010 CE declared war
1025 CE Texcoco
1035 CE Atzcapotzalco autorazed
1035 CE Calixtlahuaca
These cities weren't used for much because they're so removed from the rest of the wars. However, they did some production as well as have some cottages.

Arabian wars with Saladin:
920 CE declared war
1005 CE Najran
1025 CE Damascus
1085 CE declared war
1110 CE Mecca (Hindu holy city, hence the switch to Hinduism)
1115 CE Basra
1135 CE Medina
1190 CE declared war
1200 CE Baghdad
1200 CE Khurasan
All of Saladin's cities were Hindu and with the holy city I was hoping to get a great phophet. But that never materialized and my economy was never boosted with the religion. But the spread of it was helpful with Theocracy.

Indian wars with Asoka:
1110 CE declared war
1115 CE Kolhapur razed (only non auto-razing since it was right inbetween 4 of my cities!)
1160 CE Delhi (Buddhist holy city)
1185 CE Bangalore (Christian holy city)
1200 CE Madras
1215 CE Calcutta

English wars with Victoria:
1255 CE declared war
1260 CE Anjar
1260 CE Oxford
1260 Lost Calcutta
1270 CE Coventry
1275 Lost Coventry
1280 CE Warwick
1295 CE Nottingham
1295 CE Gepid (Islamic holy city, was a barb city in my territory the English Horse Archer got to first)
1305 CE Coventry
1315 CE Newcastle

Lessons learned:
1) SMALL attack forces can do BIG damage. AI civs tend to keep stacks of armies and if they're far from you and you attack, you can easily take workers and a city or so and sue for peace. But to do this tactic, you must maintain a sizable army or they won't talk to you.

2) Even while warmongering, you can maintain good relations with other civs. This is great especially if you want to focus on certain techs and trade for the others. I only researched the big techs and traded for all the others. Being friends with two financial civs (Incas and English) meant I could trade for small techs I skipped. And as long as I didn't give them the big techs right away, no civ got a big tech lead.

3) Not declaring a religion meant that other civs didn't hate me and I could trade small techs with them. I'd learn something from Huayna and could trade with Saladin or Asoka.

I have learned more and more comments, but it's been long enough for now..
 
Oh, in response to the current discussion, I agree with shadow2k, don't stop. Keep attacking.

Considering how poorly I handled research pace and managed my cities and workers, I wouldn't be surprised with a domination victory by 1000CE.

Monarch may be harder than Prince, but the AI doesn't get any smarter. Sometimes, they have units in a city and I send my attack force. Then, as I get next to the city, they decide to send 6 horse archers to regain a city I already took. They don't even attack the invading army! So my attack force has no problems capturing their city and other units finish off the Horse Archers in open field.

Also, I disagree with Shadow regarding 6xp vs 8xp. That's one or two less fights to get to 10xp and another City Raider promotion. My Samurais with 3 City Raiders and Combat I are very powerful. And almost my whole invasion force was like that. And a small chunk had Cover on top of that, which makes taking out Longbowmen with City Garrison II no problem!
 
At the end of my first spoiler I was about to attack Monty with Samurai+cats. Well, I did. He had a lot of units but they were no match to my samurai. I quickly captured city after city, until war weariness was becoming a problem.
This is where I made a mistake that delayed me a bit. I declared peace with only 2 aztec cities left to remove war weariness, planning to take them in 10 turns.
But when I declared again, ww got instantly to the previous level, I didn't know that, or I would have just finished the earlier war. Pretty much I lost 10 turns there doing nothing, I wasn't lacking units to finish the Aztecs.

Capac was next. After a few turns to heal and position units I attacked, took several cities without stopping, until Incas were destroyed (got myself the Pyramids in the process, swithched to representation). Towards the end I upgraded a lot of samurai to grenadiers (with city raider), and was researching steel.

Asoka's turn. This war was somewhat easier, since India was the smallest civ, and I had cannons as well. Grenadiers started to show up near the end, but too little, too late.

After India I decided to finish Hatty, who had 4 cities left and was way behind in tech. I had already built new units on that side of the world rather than move my entire army which was waaaaaay far. I was a bit short of units at the beginning, but I managed to destroy Egypt fast enough anyway.

At this point I realized that I was still short on land % for domination, and there were 2 civs left, Victoria and Saladin. Now I made another mistake I think. Those two were about the same in power (from the graph), I was on good terms with Saladin (open borders). I had grenadiers, cannons and cavalry, Saladin had riflemen already (he beelined to rifling) but no grenadiers nor cavalry, while Vicky only had grenadiers.

So I declared on England, thinking that I could attack from two sides through Arabs open borders and that I would be done before she got Redcoats. Wrong! They started showing up a few turns after the declaration. I lost a lot of units against her but finally got enough land for domination (she only had 1 city left). If I had attacked Saladin instead, I would have finished sooner.

Domination win, 1620AD, 98k or so score.

Towards the end of the game I just wanted to finish it, so I didn't really watch the cities at all, just pumped out a crapload of units and tossed them against English cities with pretty bad odds. I put most workers to automate trade network or improve nearest city, since I couldn't be bothered to micromanage those 30+ cities. I find the final part of those games when you are clearly going to win really boring, so I kind of lost track at the end. Overall it was a fun game though, and I really like to see the other players approach on the same map.

A couple of things I learned that I didn't know:
1) If you start building a national wonder in a city, then stop it, and build it somewhere else, when completed you get the money from the other city just like it happens when another civ builds a world wonder that you are making.
I started to build the heroic epic in my capital, while it was supposed to be the national epic instead (you know, don't play civ at 3am :crazyeye: ). When I finally realized the mistake (because I couldn't build HE in my designated city since the capital was already making it :lol: ), I switched to the correct city, and after it was done I got ~130gold.
2) if you capture a city, then the other civ gets it back, its cultural bonus goes instantly back up to the max, even if you bombarded it to 0 before taking it. I didn't know this and I got delayed a couple of turns when it happened to one of the Aztec cities.
 
The Land of the Rising Sun

Long ago, our ancestors decided to end our nomadic ways and we chose a suitable location for our capital city. Our great empire was founded in 3920 B.C. when we built Kyoto atop a forest hill. Since it took our ancestors so long to found our city, our neighbors were able to gain an initial advantage over us. Religions were founded in other empires across the land, but none flourished in Japan. Moreover, these other empires were able to construct many great wonders of the world, while we were consigned to the darkness of decline. Towards this end, our people initiated slavery, and founded two more cities: Osaka in 1900 B.C., and Tokyo in 1100 B.C. This third settlement angered the evil Montezuma, who declared war on our people and initiated the First Japan-Aztec War. Montezuma captured two barbarian cities enroute to Osaka, and our valiant soldiers turned aside his numerous Jaguar warriors. In 160 A.D. we founded our fourth city, Edo, and proceeded to augment our military forces. The war reached its peak when some audacious Aztec settlers and solders founded a city behind our cultural borders. Our soldiers quickly wiped out this threat and Montezuma sued for peace. So ended the First Japan-Aztec war, lasting from 1100 B.C. to 350 A.D…

Our leaders decided it was time to change the direction of the Japanese Empire. We adopted the Buddhist religion of Egypt, as they were the strongest and most scientifically advanced nation in the world. We also adopted Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion, to maintain order and enable faster building construction. Meanwhile, we continued our program of military expansion, having seen Aztec troops along our borders. In 650 A.D. Montezuma completed the Great Lighthouse in Teotihuacan – his goal was to dominate trade in the great ocean! We could not allow such a thing to happen so we declared war against this threat to world peace. We captured the city Etruscan and renamed it Lakehead, as it was situated at the confluence of two rivers and a lake. We razed some cities and captured others, until we had reached the Aztec capital of Tenochitclan. Here, we adopted Theocracy and Vassalage, so that new soldiers approaching the front might be able to withstand the terrible weapons and tactics employed by the merciless Aztec army. After a great battle, both Tenochitclan and Teotihuacan had fallen to our victorious armies and we were masters of our domain. The remaining Aztec cites were razed, as the people within them failed to consent to our rule. Let this be a lesson to those people who would feel the steel of our samurai swords in the future. The Second Japan-Aztec War lasted from 660 A.D. to 1195 A.D. and represented the culmination of Japanese military might. After the completion of this war our people adopted Bureaucracy and Organized Religion, so as to maintain our great new empire. In fact, our nation was so culturally profound that in 1370 A.D. two cities, an Incan city and an Arab city – both built within our national borders, succumbed to the might of Japan. They revolted to the Japanese cause and were accepted into our nation. Of course, we razed the foreign cities as an example to other nations who might think to sneak a settler within our border. The culmination of our scientific achievement occurred in 1430 A.D. when the great scientist Euclid was born in the captured city of Tenochitclan. He furthered the developments of our people and allowed us to gain ground on our increasingly advanced adversaries.

Unfortunately, this peace was not going to last. The Incan nation invaded peaceful India, our ally and trading partner, 30 years after the birth of Euclid. In 1460 the Incans declared war on India, who requested Japanese assistance. Although we were preparing for an invasion of our greatest rival – Saladin, our leaders decided to come to Asoka’s aid. Our glorious armies, though inferior in weapons were superior in both numbers and courage. Our soldiers razed and captured cities from our own defensive hilltops to the borders of mighty India. Our armies had captured all but one of the Incan cities; however our people were weary of constant warfare. With the Incans essentially eventually subdued in 1664 A.D., our leaders opted for peace in return for several of the Incan technology secrets. Saladin took advantage of this lull in Japanese military buildup and invaded Egypt, capturing all three of the central Egyptian cities including several of their holy cities. This act of aggressive warfare illustrated Saladin’s lust for destruction and turned world favor against him. As the Japanese army mobilized against this new threat, the last Incan city declared war on us in 1686 B.C. We were forced to wipe the Incans from the earth two years later and realize the dream of our great forefathers who imagined a Japanese nation that stretched from east to west. Our capture of the Incan Pyramids at Cuzco allowed us to learn of a different form of society and we declared a general emancipation of all slaves within our cultural borders. Struck by this act of universal kindness and tolerance, the Arabs and Egyptians made a tentative peace in 1708 B.C. So ended yet another period of bloody warfare and civil strife…

In 1708 B.C. the great merchant Marco Polo was born, and he immediately led an enormous caravan to London. The profits from this venture doubled the Japanese treasury. In 1728 our leaders adopted Free Speech, State Property, and Free Religion throughout our empire. Our people responded with increased production and scientific research. Two years later, in 1730, we finished construction on our greatest project – the Statue of Liberty. This wondrous monument was built to symbolize the notions of tolerance and freedom that our nation was built upon. Our people were motivated by this wonder, and in 1758 one of our great engineers, Louis Daguerre, constructed the Kremlin. Meanwhile, our army had not lain idle during the temporary reprieve from fighting. Through discussions with our English and Egyptian allies, we were preparing another great offensive against our hated yet technologically advanced enemy – Saladin. In 1778 we all declared war upon this monster, and had captured back the three cities stolen from Egypt during the Japanese-Incan War. Unfortunately, both England and Egypt sued for peace in 1798, on account of Saladin’s incredible army. Although hampered by this diplomatic falling-out, our leaders formulated a new plan. We also made peace with Saladin and prepared to execute Operation Egyptian Freedom…

Sixty years later, in 1852, Japan declared war on Egypt. Although we did not want to fight our ally, their refusal to aid us against the great evil – Saladin – had forced our hands. Our invasion was propelled by the construction of the Three Gorges Dam in 1854 by another great engineer Henry Bessemer. The larger Japanese forces overpowered the scientifically advanced but outnumbered Egyptian forces and by 1875 were completely victorious. We provided the Egyptian people with the same freedom our domestic citizens enjoyed, and most Egyptians were only too happy to join our nation. To solidify the new peace our leaders looked to Alexander Graham Bell, an Incan engineer, who constructed the United Nations in 1876. Unfortunately, Saladin and the Arab delegation refused to vote for Japan as the Secretary-General, precipitating yet another war. In 1878 Japanese forces crossed into Arab territory for the second time, with hopes of finally stopping this global menace. To keep war weariness down, the Japanese propaganda team developed a holy forest north of Teotihuacan, and named this development Hollywood. This great wonder proceeded to produce film after film lauding the efforts of our brave soldiers and generating support for our conflict worldwide. Perhaps spurred on by these films, our soldiers proceeded to dismantle the most powerful and advanced nation the world had ever seen. In 1895 the final Arab city capitulated and the war was over. Saladin was defeated…

The Japanese High Command urged our leaders to advance upon the unsuspecting English, however our democratically elected officials refused to go to war without the support of the people. (They were also influenced by the fact that England could field a million more soldiers than Japan could.) Towards this end, they passed several resolutions within the world including global emancipation and global free speech. Our scientists were working on a new project – the Internet – which they promised would narrow the technological gap between Japan and its allies. Despite this, at the Annual United Nations conference of 1900, the world voted in favor of one global leader, one global nation, and one global dream. Japan won a diplomatic victory! (Of course, it helped that a majority of the voters were Japanese…)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

All in all, a very fun and enjoyable game. I was hesitant about playing on Contender-Monarch, however it turned out to be ok. The big thing is making sure that your army is big enough and ensuring that you don’t expand faster than your techs allow. I took my time with this one, often spending a whole sitting planning my moves for a single turn! It seems to have paid off though, although I would have loved to get a domination victory. (I really wouldn’t have been able to beat Victoria though – her army was huge…) A final score of 27331 is my highest yet (private or GOTM) so I’m pretty happy. :D
 

Attachments

  • gotm2.jpg
    gotm2.jpg
    59 KB · Views: 85
  • gotm3.jpg
    gotm3.jpg
    55.6 KB · Views: 87
  • gotm4.jpg
    gotm4.jpg
    50.4 KB · Views: 90
  • gotm5.jpg
    gotm5.jpg
    50 KB · Views: 82
  • gotm6.jpg
    gotm6.jpg
    48.9 KB · Views: 91
zxe said:
the last Incan city declared war on us in 1686 B.C. We were forced to wipe the Incans from the earth two years later and realize the dream of our great forefathers who imagined a Japanese nation that stretched from east to west.

Great writeup. I wonder what your generals thought when they reached the uttermost east and found that the world ends in a sheer cliff dropping down into darkness?
 
As other posters have noticed, the predator/challenger class really delayed the appearance of samurai. And samurai are the best unit which basically rules the Middle Ages. They chop through archers without taking any damage and city raider III promotions are dealing with longbowmen pretty swiftly unless the city is on a hill and has large culture. So, starting from about 500AD I have built only samurai with a few occasional knights in the end. I have also waged wars on two fronts, against Aztec, Inca, and India in the north and Egypt and Arabs in the south. Aztec, Egypt and Inca were rather weak and had mostly only archers but India and Arabs already had longbowmen and many cities with huge culture. To take these cities, I advanced with a stack of about 10-12 samurai, then sacrificed a few highly promoted units to damage the strongest longbowmen and then was able to kill the remaining defenders. I think I have built total of 5 catapults throughout the whole game. This tactics resulted in rather heavy casualties and very high war weariness. At some time I was running luxury rate of 60% and had to build a few theaters in the largest cities.

Immediately after capture, all cities had courthouses chopped in them and after that went to granaries, barracks, and more samurai, again mostly chopped. I have not researched much and got banking 5 or 7 turns before the end of the game. Really, cannot say something more meaningful. The turn consisted of mostly moving samurai and finding some forest for the workers to chop. This provided for constant flow of reinforcements and led to domination win in 1155AD. The score was 169,831 but the submission page said that the score was 169,829. Not that these 3 points matter. Also, I think that some stronger player with a proper planning can easily get to domination on this map and difficulty level around 700AD, may be 800AD. Just get samurai earlier and then they would have to face mostly archers. Also, build more workers to chop the forests faster.

Thanks a lot to the GOTM staff for the great game. I hope the next one would be at least on Emperor level.
 
Doc TK said:
... One thing that Shadow said struck me - " ... this month is that so many people probably went with the same basic strategy...build units and kill everything."

I have a hard time believing it was as easy as that. Aren't there some pretty big decisions in this game? ...

Well, imho, Shadow pretty much nailed it. For the domiation win on this map and with such a great unit as samurai, the only thing which is needed are samurai. Of course, courthouses have to be built and Castle System is very beneficial for border expansion and balancing budget. Also, Drama is required to fight against war weariness with a luxury slider. In the later game I had captured Pyramids and revolted to mercantilism and police state civics but still had to run 30% luxury rate and could research only with scientists without losing money. But I had about 1000 gold robbery and plunder in the treasury just in case. Otherwise, really, the game is pretty easy and straightforward, nothing tricky here, not on that level. Just make sure to start the wars as early as reasonable and chop every tree to rush courthouses, barracks, and samurai.
 
akots said:
To take these cities, I advanced with a stack of about 10-12 samurai, then sacrificed a few highly promoted units to damage the strongest longbowmen and then was able to kill the remaining defenders. I think I have built total of 5 catapults throughout the whole game.

Interesting, I usually send the rookies to do damage and die trying, the veterans can make the kill. This meant that the few rookies that did survive got another 2 city raider promotions and would end up being promoted to grenadiers eventually. Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to bring along some catapults though?

This tactics resulted in rather heavy casualties and very high war weariness.

Ah I wondered why I didn't suffer from war weariness so much, it's because of limited casualities. Makes sense now I think of it.
 
Overall, I did not plan to research much and for Domination, luxury slider was very helpful. So, I have used it very generously. Advantage of sacrificing samurai:

1) They are very strong and brave warriors and are not afraid to look death in the eyes. Seriously.

2) The city can be attacked on the same turn as troops move to the suburbs. With cats there are a few turns of bombardment usually required unless you have many cats.

3) Cats better be guarded against wondering units especially in the open. Which means that samurai sit a few turns idle.

4) Promotions to city raider III were rather easy, most of the samurai had to win only two or maximum three battles to get to that point.

5) Eventually, cats would have to be sacrficed as well. This gives similar war weariness. Whereas for cats attacking city is a sure death, samurai can win sometimes. They also can pretty much beat all defenders except for 2-3 strongest longbowmen on top, so barrage is of minor importance here imho and advantage of cats is minimal.

6) Cats are not very cheap if built in numbers and they don't get combat I promotions from the aggressive trait.

7) I already had too many units. It was a lump sum for their support, especially in enemy territory. So, building someting more expensive actually has advantage here.

8) Also, there were way too many units to move, I think I just got lazy at some point.

Might be I forgot something here.
 
(Sorry - showing my age again!)

As we left the previous report, Tok had been biding his time building up a strong but small core of cities. Fate had granted him a religion to call his very own, which he had generously decided to share with his neighbours.

The years had passed without conflict, but shadows were massing on the horizon...

The early years

Tokugawa the elder had fooled his neighbours into thinking him a harmless tyrant in a small backwater, so the small force of axemen soon laid waste to an inconveniently-placed and poorly-defended Aztec stronghold and captured two more. One was a key strategic (inland) port which would deprive Montezuma of one of his sources of copper.

To make the most of their spirited troops, the Tokugawa clan had waited until wars were being waged in every corner of the world. Despite this, they were unlikely to make further progress at this stage so in 940 AD the diplomats agreed a form of peace.

New borders made easy access to Aztec horses, so the start of the next crusade was inevitable. This time, however, the army consisted of ranks of samurai with elephants and catapults to back them up. Once again the ignorant Montezuma had turned his back, warring with the Indians in the east. Swift strikes against the horse stockades in 1215 ensured that the Aztec horse archers would see no reinforcements.

By 1345 the last flame of the Aztec dies, snuffed out by English knights who laid waste to their prize, leaving a tasty morsel to the Incan people (damn them!).

The renaissance years

Weary of war, the Japanese people entreated their leaders to let them rebuild and regroup, showing them the possibilities that religion had given them. Indeed, diplomacy might prove as eloquent a weapon as the katana.

Despite their doubts, the Tokugawa clan nevertheless took the path of peace and directed their people toward a gathering of humanity that would forever end the needless loss of war by agreeing that the way of the Japanese was right and just and should be a model to all.

By careful diplomacy, support and religious instruction, the world was brought to the way of Tokugawa in 1774.

The Details

Aztec war left Tok with a dozen or so reasonably productive cities and enough war booty to keep science at 80% or more throughout game. This was helped by Buddhist holy shrine and early cottages. Tech pace was therefore sufficient to keep up with others - Asoka was friendly and the tech leader, which really helped as he would always trade.

Had planned on keeping Saladin on side (Buddhist buddy) but he was being squeezed by Hat and Vicky. Hat had always been top of score so decided I needed Vic and HC on my side for diplo win. When Vic declared on Saladin I sacrificed my Bud to gain Mutual Enemy points.

Managed to get HC to convert to Bud by swamping him with missionaries. Vic went FoR so (thank the lord) lost her Heathen status with me.

Tipped the scales by adopting Representation, which turned Vic into a gushing supporter and didn't seem to worry HC too much as I'd spent some time in Hereditory Rule to please him.

Bee-lined for Mass Media, though perhaps not as soon as I could have. Recall stopping for Replaceable Parts, though not quite sure why :crazyeye: .
Running Beaurocracy, built UN in capital by 1756. After lots of holding breath got Diplo victory in 1774.

Observations

I was lucky that Vic stopped her war with Saladin relatively early and left Hat to pick up the pieces. The extra Arab land and population she gained meant that Hat stayed at the top with enough margin (~150) to be able to guarantee that she would be a contender in UN elections.

HC was my strongest supporter so I made sure that I courted Vic strongly and got her to sign a Defensive Pact first. After a few rounds of sulking HC did the same. As well as diplo points also meant I could ignore any threats or tantrums from Hat.

Could have been screwed by HC going to Free Religion but he stayed with Buddhism to the end. This gave me a big +6 towards a net +12. He was unlikely to vote for Hat (either pleased or cautious) but could have easily abstained.

Going to Representation eventually got me +4 with Vic, added to +3 for mutual enemy (Saladin) went toward total net +13. Both Friendly by time of UN vote so got me the win.

The Result

I made use of Tok's samurai when it mattered, clearing away a rival and taking over a fairly well-established empire. I could have continued warring at this stage but the diplo victory seemed more likely (and I have to admit more my style :mischief: ). I'll go through again and go all-out for domination just to give my warmongering skills some exercise.

Pretty pleased to have got the diplo win at that time, with in-game points showing 26,464. I know this is low but it's great for me playing at this level.

Did the Adventurer start help? I probably got to more huts than some, one of which popped me Mysticism so changed my plans. Got to see a bit more of the map to choose my starting spot, though not sure this was any better than others in the end. Extra units for scouting probably helped keep down barbs and made for early exploration, though again not to a huge degree. In all it was probably more of a confidence-booster than a massive bonus.

Guess I'll play Contender next time :king:

Let me know if I've missed anything vital. Will try to get screenshots organised for future posts but nothing revealing to show this time.
 
Back
Top Bottom