GOTM 05 First Spoiler

[Veevee]

This game has been characterized by a series of poor decisions on my part, pretty much nothing from the goody huts, and being plagued by barbarians. Can't remember it exactly, so I'll see about a proper write up when I get home and finish this god forsaken game.

I swear, this game didn't like me from the moment I started it.

 

[Markus5]

Sooooo: As long as don't replay to get a different outcome, you're OK. Time must go forward. You can't go back and try again.

 

[ionimplant]

i was thinking that i must be one of the luckiest guys to pop 1 settler and 1 worker... got conquest victory aroudn 260AD. but i see that there're still a lot of mistakes in terms of my strategy. i should have settle my popped settler in a site that has horses so that horse archers can be available much earlier. i conquered China and England with axemen and the rest with horse archers. it should have been horse archers all the way.
pindicator, you did a great job in utilizing the river to get horses to the capital. i always wonder why i never thought about such things. in last gotm, i even forgot to settle on the marble site and was scratching my head whether i should research masonary in order to use the marble. i guess it's a result of learning by playing gotms... i am still not famaliar with civ4 enough to be creative, or even to have enough commen sense.

 

[jar2574]

in last gotm, i even forgot to settle on the marble site and was scratching my head whether i should research masonary in order to use the marble. i guess it's a result of learning by playing gotms...

I think you still would have had to research masonry to get the benefits of cheap wonders from the marble.

 

[Nakhimov]

I downloaded the game at 1 in the morning on the 1st and immediately set to work. I went straight for BW while exploring with the scout and popped a worker. Once I saw that copper by Moscow, I shifted into war mode and never came out. I circled the map and finished in 430 AD with a score of 60K. I thought about milking it, but it was 3:30 AM and I decided to just finish, submit, and go to bed. While I won GOTM 2 & 3, I got my rear handed to me on 4 and it was a nice break in the pace to not be desperately trying to catch up all game. One thing I think speaks to the wisdom of choosing this difficulty is that this GOTM already has more than half as many submissions as GOTM 4, even though we've only been going for seven days. While another Emperor game might have been a better learning experience for low-level players, that doesn't do any good if they don't play because it's no fun being hideously beaten with no hope of winning at all.

 

[Memphus]

While another Emperor game might have been a better learning experience for low-level players, that doesn't do any good if they don't play because it's no fun being hideously beaten with no hope of winning at all.

Well said. I for one play at a higher level (this ismy first game on warlord.) but am getting alot of enjoyment out of rolling over the AI and experimenting with new ideas. (For example you can reasearch 3 techs in one turn (reasearch one, get liberalism with the Oracle and choose a third ), all before 500 B.C.)

In any event I'll save my spoiler for the final spoiler thread, since it will be a good one, but I can atest to another player who mananged to pop a couple of settlers which I know made a huge difference

 

[Cromwell]

Gah. When someone declares war on you, look at your borders before sending everyone out in an invasion. It will be the verdict of history that there was a traitorous general involved, this was too hideous too be explained by incompetence. Moscaw fallen, no copper...

 

[doyen]

I greatly overestimated the strength of the AI. I researched to CoL, then used the oracle to get civil service. Then I researched machinary. The upshot is that I beelined to macemen, and that slowed me down considerably.

Because the macemen move so slowly it took me until about 1000ad to complete my domination victory at about 73k points. There were never any longbowmen anywhere.

My mistake was in thinking macemen were necessary. I should have gone chariots or horse archers, or even axes, and started fighting a lot earlier. Oh well.

I'm not sure I learned anything this game. I know that easier games will help us discuss more, but warlord seemed a tad too easy for me, mainly because I have no feel for how tough the AI is at this level. I have never played below noble before, and I think I only played on noble once.

On the other hand, perhaps my overestimation of the AI's strength highlights a general weakness of my game? Perhaps I tend to overestimate the AI's military strength at higher difficulties as well, and this is what causes difficulty for me at the Emperor level? Dunno. I guess I need to think about it some more. I know that as a person I have a tendency to overprepare, so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[The-Hawk]

Well, I feel a little inadequate... my 500 AD post is not a complete game. However, I am playing for a culture win so I suppose its OK.

Some of my early decisions:

Moscow:

Moved the settler to the plains hill, decided I liked the original spot and went back. Cost me a turn, but I thought the plains hill brought too many desert tiles into the fat cross for a culture city.

Huts:

jar2574, 3 settlers? I am jealous! I did pop a worker, then a settler. As I recall, my other hut pops were maps and gold, no techs at all. One issue, I lost my first scout to a lion very early on, so I didn’t get too many huts (maybe 5-6 total). Bit of bad luck, in my practice games, the barb animals seemed pretty wimpy.

Key cities:

I founded St. Pete to the north of Moscow. 4 cows were whispering in my ear… “GP factory, GP factory”. I decided that due west of Moscow would be a good site for my second culture city (Rostov). I was sold by three gold mines and some flood plains for cottages (including one to the east of the mountains in Moscow’s fat cross). Also, lots of trees to chop wonders. I didn’t really see a great site for culture city three… I eventually picked a site to the southwest that had several flood plains and a silver mine. The problem was it had no trees. I founded Novgorod there and cottaged up the flood plains. After exploring, I decided that Mao’s capital was a much nicer looking site for culture city 3. It had gold, silver, a couple of flood plains, and lots of trees. So, I… ummm… borrowed it from him. I went back to Novgorod, farmed over all the cottages, and made it GP factory #2. Wasn’t a great GP factory, but I did eventually get two artists from it. Beijing was culture city three.

Other cities:

By 500 AD, I had built a couple of other cities as well. One was sited to get the stone south of Moscow for wonder building. The other was to hook up corn. With this particular map, health bonuses were the limiting factor on speed for culture… really cramped my GP factories and culture cities.

Chopping:

For me, this was a bit of a challenge, because I’m generally a chopaholic. However, with the health situation, I decided to leave 4 forest tiles in St. Pete, 2 in Moscow, and 2 in Rostov. Holding off chopping did slow down wonder creation, but I thought I’d benefit from the extra population, especially in St. Pete.

Early Wonders:

Moscow: 1425 BC - Stonehenge, 940 BC - Oracle, 360 BC - Parthenon
Rostov: 300BC – Pyramids
St. Pete: 230 AD - National Epic

Early Techs:

Some comments on my tech decisions. You’ll notice bronze working was kind of late. My rationale was that I would be doing less chopping (health concerns). I also wanted to wait until I got the Stone hooked up so my Pyramids chopping would have higher value. Finally, I assumed I could get away without Axe’s for a while. So, my first techs were to get my GP farm and cottages going. Then I went for religions so I wouldn’t need to depend on AI’s spreading them to me. One other comment, I made several trades for pretty useless techs (e.g. Sailing). These were done for diplomatic purposes only.

3440 BC: Animal Husbandry
3080 BC: Agriculture
2760 BC: Pottery
2520 BC: Mysticism
2200 BC: Polytheism (found Hinduism)
2040BC: Priesthood
1875 BC: Writing
1800 BC: Masonry
1275 BC: CoL (found Confucianism)
1150 BC: Bronze Working
920 BC: Civil Service (from Oracle)
880 BC: Alphabet
840 BC: Meditation, Fishing, Archery from trades
780 BC: Literature
740 BC: Monotheism
500 BC: Theology (found Christianity)
200 BC: Iron Working from trade
200 BC: Philosophy (found Taoism)
100 BC: Mathematics
40 BC: Sailing from trade
100 AD: Music (free GA)
200 AD: Paper
380 AD: Edumacation

Warmongering:

Sigh.... only one war . I decided I wanted Beijing as a culture city. Started the war in 140 BC, captured Beijing in 20 BC, razed his other two cities. Mao out in 20 BC. IIRC, even at this late date, I only used Axemen.

Civics:

I did not switch to Caste System when I discovered CoL. My GP factory was not up to speed yet, wanted to combine it with another civic to limit anarchy. I don’t remember why I waited on Representation, I assume happiness was not an issue when I completed Pyramids. Or, maybe I was asleep at the wheel.

920 BC: Caste System and Bureaucracy
20 BC: Representation and Organized Religion

Religion:

I felt I had bad luck on Religions. I had gotten a Great Prophet from Stonehenge and Oracle, held him with the hope I would found a religion in a culture city and make use of the shrine for culture and gold. I ultimately founded 5 religions, 4 of these founded in my GP farm cities, so I did not want to build their shrines. The fifth was in a nothing city. After all that waiting, I used the Prophet as a super specialist.

20 AD: Adopted Hinduism. - Picked Hinduism so that Vicky would be my bud. This is about when I started spamming temples, so I wanted to be able to go to OR and get the building bonus.

Diplomacy:

Based on the global politics, I decided to be pals with Vicky and Roosevelt since they were close to me and were chummy with each other. They had issues with the other AI’s, so I limited all of my early trading to these two. Adopting Hinduism made Roosevelt cautious for a while, but I gave him some free stuff and he came around.

500 AD Status:

Hanging Gardens and Notre Dame are almost done. Liberalism is only a couple of turns away. 7 cities built, working on a Settler for city 8 (planning on 9 total). St. Pete and Novgorod are building artists (3 complete, plus 1 from Music). Mao is bye-bye, I’m hoping I am done all wars.

What would I have done differently?

In hindsight, I jumped into wonder production too early. I should have gotten libraries up in my culture towns first. I think my tech pace could have been much better. I'm also thinking I should have switched to OR sooner to speed up my wonders. Not sure about that though.

My city locations:

Two culture cities (Moscow and Rostov) and my main GP farm (St. Petersburg):


Beijing -3rd culture city donated to me by Mao:


Novgorod being converted into a 2nd GP factory and a couple of resource cities:

 

[mushroomshirt]

Conquest victory in 1025 BC.

Once I got 2 settlers from the first 2 huts I popped, I decided to just get it over with as fast as possible with Horse Archers and it was basically over after playing for 1 hour and 22 minutes.

If you get a chance, I'd love a little more detail. 1025BC is way earlier than I would have thought possible.

I was patting myself on the back for a 60AD victory. I figured the best players would be 500BC but I never thought 1025BC!

I wonder what your strategy was for conquered cities? Keep or raze?

How about a general question for the other fast conquest folks out there. What was your order? Myself I went Chinese, America, England, France Arabs, Aztecs. I thought I was smart for sending some early axemen across the map to steal workers from the French and Aztecs. Maybe this was overkill. If I had sent two axes instead of 1 I probably could have destroyed their whole civilization. I wonder if starting my conquest from the farthest away civ would have helped my time.

I think I could have shaved some turns off of my victory in a couple of other ways:

1) Attack with less than overwhelming odds. At the end of the game I was sending 4 horse archers at Aztec cities with 2 archers. I probably could have moved in with 2 archers

2) I actually built Stonehenge. Why I would do that I have no idea. I realized how stupid it was right after I built it. I guess I am just not used to creative civs. I also built the oracle at my worker farm which was stupid too. Should have just kept spamming workers from this city. (basically my strategy was a worker farm at my capital and everything else had a barracks and was spamming horse archers).

3) My tech path was pretty weak. I researched iron working and had absolutely no need to. Should have just beelined to horse archers and then turned off science. Constant conquering would have allowed me enough income just to keep all conquered cities and have them spamming horse archers.

 

[The Duff Man]

I got a worker, a tech, a warrior and some gold from huts. A settler would have been nice.

I went cultural but made many mistakes, the main ones being:
1. Not building the Pyramids so I could later buy buildings.
2. Not managing my GP and ending up with way too many prophets instead of artists.

One cool aspect is that very early the entire world practiced Judaism, except Monte who founded Buddhism. Everyone loved me so much I should have went for diplomacy instead.

 

[mbodell]

I really like this GOTM difficulty level and what not, as I feel that for me this is the type of game I need to have to try stuff.

I'm playing on wimpy class and got a few techs from the goody huts but only one worker who was eaten by barbs on the way home. I did try the worker stealing from the Americans which worked to prevent him from hooking up his resources and was the first city I took. But I took the worker with a warrior who was then killed by an American archer and the worker was eaten by a lion on the way home.

I really liked the mountain city to the west of Moscow. I have cities stretching all along the river in to deep French territory and down south of Moscow cutting off the English (and a few productive cities down below).

The barbarians were also nice enough to form some cities that I could take with my horse archers that definitely helped my expansion.

I'm probably taking too much time getting ready for war as I have 2 +2 exp civics and barricks and am pumping out horse archers and axemen then macemen and knights (with cats) and am about to wipe out the chinese.

The only thing that was poor was napolean beat me to the pyramid by a couple of turns.

 

[Rihiter]

3) Without meaning to make this personal to you, Rihiter, I've never understood people who say "now that I finished GOTM, I have nothing to play until the first of the month."...

My dear Jason Fliegel. Please notice that little smile on the end of my post. It was a joke, at least I tried to make one ;]. Meaby it wasn't as good as I thought.

p.s. About those multiplayer games... I'm quite new here at CivFanaticks and I don't know do you play any multiplayer online games. If yes, please write something about them ( or give me some links to threads about them ), I would gladly play some too.

 

[ionimplant]

I think you still would have had to research masonry to get the benefits of cheap wonders from the marble.

thanks, Jar! this saves me another future gotm which i would probably have to learn what you said through a surprise.

 

[ionimplant]

(basically my strategy was a worker farm at my capital and everything else had a barracks and was spamming horse archers).

why do you need so many workers? building roads? improve lands? i feel with the 4-6 workers i built and the many ones captured, they were quite enough to get done what needs to be done.

 

[Gherald]

Free settler :\

Edit: and again...!

 

[Pox]

If you get a chance, I'd love a little more detail. 1025BC is way earlier than I would have thought possible.

I was patting myself on the back for a 60AD victory. I figured the best players would be 500BC but I never thought 1025BC!

I wonder what your strategy was for conquered cities? Keep or raze?

How about a general question for the other fast conquest folks out there. What was your order? Myself I went Chinese, America, England, France Arabs, Aztecs. I thought I was smart for sending some early axemen across the map to steal workers from the French and Aztecs. Maybe this was overkill. If I had sent two axes instead of 1 I probably could have destroyed their whole civilization. I wonder if starting my conquest from the farthest away civ would have helped my time.

I think I could have shaved some turns off of my victory in a couple of other ways:

1) Attack with less than overwhelming odds. At the end of the game I was sending 4 horse archers at Aztec cities with 2 archers. I probably could have moved in with 2 archers

2) I actually built Stonehenge. Why I would do that I have no idea. I realized how stupid it was right after I built it. I guess I am just not used to creative civs. I also built the oracle at my worker farm which was stupid too. Should have just kept spamming workers from this city. (basically my strategy was a worker farm at my capital and everything else had a barracks and was spamming horse archers).

3) My tech path was pretty weak. I researched iron working and had absolutely no need to. Should have just beelined to horse archers and then turned off science. Constant conquering would have allowed me enough income just to keep all conquered cities and have them spamming horse archers.

Now that I look again, although I killed off the last civ in 1025 BC, it was recorded as finished in 1000 BC.

This is how I remember it:

Since the game coughed up 2 settlers from huts in under 10 turns, I decided to just research directly to Horseback Riding after AH was finished. Being at Warlord difficulty, I figured there would be more than enough time to finish off the AI civs with only Horse Archers seeing as we were all on one continent.

The second popped settler I sent naked (losing him didn't seem to be a big deal if it happened, but now I realize this settler would become the City of Doom) toward the SE and then NE searching for the sweet spot on the type of map. I found a spot that would get me 4 cows in a cities cross that also was basically adjacent to the Americans and British.

My first 2 cities started out building a scout and then a worker, and then a warrior and start barracks.

Sent out my built scouts to the N/NW and NE while my original scout was searching the center and eventually to the SE. Got some cash from huts and BW and maybe another tech, but I wasn't paying much attention to tech at this point as I figured there would be no reason to advance militarily past Horse Archers.

When I was getting ready to settle my 3rd city, AH finished and I also saw there would be Horses in the cross of this city. Before I founded this city, I popped another hut with my settler and was given a worker, and another scout in the area popped another worker, and both workers were sent to my City of Doom to get the pastures built and roads back to my first 2 cities built.

When Horseback Riding finished, I had all cities building Horse Archers and the City of Doom was spitting them out quickly. As soon as my first 2 Horse Archers were built in my 3rd city, I started warring by capturing Washington and London. That left only 4 civs and I sent 2 Horse Archers to take out the Chinese in the NW, and only barely succeeded with that. The first stack I sent to the east from London and took out France's second city which was level 1 and next to Washington. After that stack healed, I captured Paris and was down to 2 AI civs.

Meanwhile, I was building Horse Archers and sending them NE towards Monte and Saladin. I left a Horse Archer in my first 2 cities just in case barbarians showed up and it's a good thing I did since a bunch popped up near the end, including a barb city West of Moscow.

I took Mecca out as soon as I got a few Horse Archers on his border, and that left Monte. I sent the stack from Paris North to his cap and didn't notice that he had set up a second city SE of his cap. I got sloppy at this point or could have finished around 5 turns earlier I think. I caught a settler and escort coming from Monte's cap to the West and took them out in his borders, and then captured Teo.

Then I realized he had another city up when he didn't go to 0 score and spent a couple of turns tracking it down, and I just sent in Horse Archers piecemeal and they eventually took out his last city for the 75k point Conquest.

 

[whb]

Well, no free settlers for me. Lots of maps, a very little gold, and 1 tech. But never mind - I got lots of free cities from the AI, and unit promotions to go with them. Decided to go for spaceship because I didn't think anyone else would! So the only interesting bit to report will have to wait for spoiler thread 2.

 

[mushroomshirt]

why do you need so many workers? building roads? improve lands? i feel with the 4-6 workers i built and the many ones captured, they were quite enough to get done what needs to be done.

I don't know that I NEEDED that many workers. I'm very interested to know what philosophy others had about this. In the early game my workers were busy building mines, but later I used them to build roads over to Napoleon and the Aztecs.

My thought was I could get my horse archers over there twice as fast if I had this army of workers. In fact, I even switched over to serfdom to get them building these roads faster. I think there are a couple of mistakes here:

1) A strategy of taking out Monty Saladin and Napoleon first would probably have been faster overall than taking the close civs first.
2) It was definitely a waste to research Feudalism. I should have stopped at horseback riding.
3) I could have built horse archers instead of workers at my capital.

Probably 4-6 workers plus 1-2 per captured civs sounds about right to me. (but what do I know?)

A side note - I know most people are very anti worker automation. I like to use it to build roads. I ran into trouble this game with two workers building ALMOST but not exactly the same road network. They ended up building two roads in adjacent squares. I guess I had so many workers that I didn't notice this until 4-5 squares down the road network.

 

[The-Hawk]

Now that I look again, although I killed off the last civ in 1025 BC, it was recorded as finished in 1000 BC.

Pretty damn fast! Well done!

Based on your writeup, I think you've set a good early benchmark for fast conquest. You were very focused on the conquest, doesn't look like you allowed yourself to be distracted with non-essential build or research.