GOTM 08 - first spoiler

akots said:
Completely agree, it is certainly overrated for this type of map imho. But as I said previously, it just helps to make it through. At least you know what you are doing and you know the possible outcome and it is a sort of universal strategy which is not significantly adversly affecting the development in the long run.

You forgot to add that the spoiler screenshot basically reveals whether the slingshot is possible or not. I think this has a big impact, as the only real strategy that can be plausibly tested against the known information about the map is a CS slingshot.
 
Obormot said:
Now, if you analise the tech tree carefully and play around with the GP lightbulb spreadsheet you can see that even if Astronomy is needed (and it may be so even even if it is rare with such settings, after all we didn't have such a game since GOTM1), the CS slinshot is not that great.

where is this spreadsheet that you speak of, tavarish?
 
trippstowe said:
edit: do you have a posting of an explanation?

It's pretty simple. The Great person will get you the highest available tech in his column. For instance, if Writing is avaliable for research, a Great Scientist will always get it for you.
 
Thanks, malekhite.

It follows, among other things, that one way to get Civil Service early without the slingshot is by using a Great Priest, as long as you make sure that no higher-priority tech is available. To accomplish that, you will typically hold out on researching Masonry but you will research Code of Laws (and possibly use the slingshot for that, heh).

(Note btw that the Great Priest does not complete the CS research entirely, since it is quite expensive. You need to do a fraction of the research yourself.)

A Great Merchant can get you there as well.
 
malekithe said:
It's pretty simple. The Great person will get you the highest available tech in his column. For instance, if Writing is avaliable for research, a Great Scientist will always get it for you.

yeah ok, i think i got the wrong zip at first. it was a spreadsheet that had maybe priorities for techs, for certain philosophies (scientific, production, ai trade etc.)
 
Ribannah said:
(Note btw that the Great Priest does not complete the CS research entirely, since it is quite expensive. You need to do a fraction of the research yourself.)

A Great Merchant can get you there as well.

does anyone have any info on the rhyme or reason of how much research a GP gives you? i have searched the strategy threads and didnt find anything.

in the mean time i will start a thread in the strategy section, this should be discussed there i believe.
 
Obormot said:
I think that CS slingshot is a liittle bit overrated. Ay least I think that in this game it is suboptimal.

PS: These Oracle dates are insane! :eek: I built mine around 1400BC and thought it was perfectly safe. I never seen the AI build it before 1200BC and only a one or two times before 1000BC on monarch. Guess it is the effect of archipelago maps, though in my game I didn't experience and wonder craziness from AI. Anyway, it only make such approach even stronger, It is nice to get MC with Oracle, but you don't loose anything if you fail. The next games will hopefully be at Emperor and Immortal levels (and maybe even Deity after that). I don't think many people will try a direct CS slingshot then.

After submitted i start from the beginning to try again the CS slingshot:
Some AI built Oracle in 1860BC !!! in another try around 1600 and 1400
So I was lucky in my official game, anyway your strategy got some point, and I wish to try, just to see and learn.
I agree: for higher difficulty levels CS slingshot is close to impossible
 
Thanks to Stormreaver I did a nice start in this months GotM 8.
If I did not take his tips in the pregame discussion on hand, I might not have succeeded this good and may not have learned the things I learned by doing this. It does make me aware of how important it is to plan ahead when playing Civilization!

Unfortunately my initial scout went westward, so I discovered soon enough that there was not much land there. When he went east, he was soon killed by some devious lions, so it was the Americans who met me in 3080 BC rather then me finding them.
The initial plan of Stormreavers help was to first produce a workboat, then a worker, then a unit and then a settler, thus maximizing the growth of Berlin and the rest of the empire. This worked really well: in 2160 BC there was a fishing boat for the fish and the gold, pigs and copper are all in production. This meant Berlin was a powerful city! By this time I also found Hamburg just south of the corn NE of Berlin sealing of some needed land for my empire. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Americans would develop rather quickly so I had to hurry to claim land for myself.
In 1320 I produce the first galley. Now I can go on exploring. It would be nice to meet some new people and be able to trade with them.
After building a lighthouse in Berlin I wanted to build a Great Lighthouse… but I could not. Here comes in my low knowledge of Civ 4: I just needed another tech (masonry I guess) to do this, but did not look this up until it was too late and it was build by someone else :(.

By 1000 BC a Barb city was on the land near the wine. This was a problem, I wanted to claim the land as mine, but did not have enough axes to take the city which was founded on a hill. It took me quite long to get around this problem, by that time Washington had taken most of the land on the eastern part of the island. I probably could have done this better, but I did not have a lot of military and took more focus of settling the rest of the land first and building some more galleys.

925 BC met Tokugawa
200BC met Isabelle
175AD Catherine
600 Cyrus
680 Victoria

Around 500BC I started to doubt if I could hold up my economy. I was at 70% research and was at doubt if I could keep this up if I wanted to grow (which was my plan: to settle on 1 or more islands for needed resources). An option was to go and build lots of axes and go for US land, but that would be not so good for economy in the short run. Also the US was the bigger player, so chance would be big he would kick my but. Still my few cities were quite big and spewing out quite some axes. I decided I could try, but never got there (luckily I guess).

By 500 AD I am doing better then I had expected, for a monarch game. Catherine and Washington have a higher score (about 100 points, but then there is me and I lead Cyrus and Toku by about 100 points. Not bad at all.
Research is still going at 70% which keeps me up to date, but not in the lead.
My cities are fairly big, I can whip a lot and I have the hanging gardens in Berlin (since 300 AD). This just might get me somewhere. :)
 
GOTM7 being my first prince game, though i didnt finish it due to missing monitor I tried adventurer for monarch. I must say that it was just a huge advantage for me from the beginning.

Founded Berlin 1W to claim fish and second city NE of Berlin, 2 archers, scout and also worker did little scounting because he had nothing meaningfull to due.

Research path: Fishing, BW, AH, the wheel, Sailing ...

Berlin became an early production powerhouse, building Stonehendge (for cultre for many cities), Oracle (used for MC for cheap forges), Colosus and Great Lighthouse early and fast. Added GL later.

I have build 7 cities so far, claiming most of the island, the third claiming marble, fourth on the peninsulla W, fifth on peninsulla north.

GP: prophet - conf. shrine, Engineer for GL, scientist for academy in Berlin, prophet - theology (did not found christianity :mad: ), prophet - islam.

What happened: I have built wariors in both first cities and sent them N and W to fogbustbust. That meant that barbs could come only from the east, which was easilly sealed by few axes which gained some Xp. I did quite well until 500BC, couple galleys sailing the seas discovering Isabella, Toku early. The foolish mistake was that they were empty, nobody to pop huts or scout islands.
I had alphabet, but nobody was willing to trade techs. Open borders and peace was just not enough and no religion sharing (isabella is budhist, Toku & Washington hind). By 500 BC i had improved my cities, all having granaries and forges (they were cheap) culture from stonehenge made my empire nicely growing. Some axes build, met some barbs. Founded confucianism and spreading it through my empire for shrine income. I didnt adopt state religion as everybody was different. At 500BC i decided to put the axes to some use and declared on washington. He founded 2 cities on good spots (one near iron) so i left them grow and captured them. My economy is recovering. I aim for domination.
 
I played in one go to about 1100, and didnt take notes, so a quick overview only...

Did suboptimal route for CS: fishing>AH>BW>priest techs, . I think forgot some micromanaging, and was far from it when the AI completed Oracle around 1600.

Met Americanos early enough.

I was not in a bad shape, delayed second city a bit (founded it SE-ish).

I guess I was beaten off track by the lovely copper popping up in capital, hooked that up and after failed CS and then procceded to push out barricaded axemen, all CR one was str. I met some unfortunate barbarians on the way to have some nice CR2 axes. My first target was Georgios city sitting between 2 gem mines, guarded by only 2 arachers, I had 8 axes now and soon after I had gems.

George did not hook up metal, so I took away his capital as well, then made peace for techs while building more units. I slowed down on the warpath till I got CoL and couthouses up. Then more units. I was faced with nothing but Archers, but I missed one attack and had to reconsilidate my foothold. As usual I was building too much, and not following a focused path. At 500AD I was at war again (made peace whenever I could get techs), other nations came sailing to me and introduced themselves.

So it was meant as a CS sling, but I failed. I then used axes to good effect (got some very nicely promoted now) but failed to get macemen (cuz I HAD to get Col-couthouses, and then all the other spiffy builder techs)

Ill play on to 1500 and check in on next spoiler...see how my mess turns out
I will follow warpath for as long as necessary to secure a win. No culture, but others can be done
 
I was trying for the CS slingshot. I had the oracle in the queue and only needed 5 hammers to complete. Sitting in front of it was the Pyramids, getting hammer and chop production. I had previously completed Stonehenge. I had set Berlin up for max-commerce and had about 15 turns to go on CoL. So, here I am sitting on the train home in the afternoon, pressing enter and getting more and more nervious about "The Oracle has been completed some-@#$@#-where else". Well, it didn't! CoL, Oracle, Civil Service - yippee!!!!

Start on Archer and decide to build my first settler - bring on the macemen - this game is going to be easy. Then the barbs start to show up. Press enter, press enter, watch them come in an pillage gold, pillage copper, press enter, press enter (this was easy after the stress of getting or not getting the slingshot). One barb warrior is next to my capital. One barb archer is next to my capital. I have 1 warrior, priest and worker in my capital.

Press enter and then realize that I could lose this game ...

Warrior defeats barb warrior
Warrior loses to barb archer
Game Over

I could have build 4 warriors instead of putting hammers into the settler.
I could have whipped 1 warrior while the barbs where next door to Berlin.
I was just smoking some good weed - what a klutz!
Killed in 850BC
 
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