GOTM 106 - Final Spoiler

neilmeister

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GOTM 106 Final Spoiler

,

So how did your game after 1AD go? Tell everyone about your amazing victory!

Did quick speed throw all of you careful planning?

Don't know what happened to this thread, I thought I created it last week.

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First time I have anything to report in the 2nd spoiler on an Emperor game and the good news it ends with a victory in 1735!


From the first thread I was in a war with Persia and had captured 3 cities including their capital before 1 AD. Persia was destroyed about 300 AD. I kept 4 cities and razed the rest. I'm dead last in the standings (since being ahead of Persia doesn't count) so I start gearing up for the next war. I get to Construction and start cranking out cats. I don't think I'm strong enough to take on the Aztecs in a real war but Mansa is so far ahead in techs I have no choice.

In 680 AD I DOW on the Aztecs. They have a city to my SW with iron in the BFC and I need the iron for my UU. I grab the city knowing I can't push further right away and settle in for the counter attacks. I'm hoping to kill their extra units and be able to push on into their civ after a while.

About 800 AD or so Khan DOW on Mansa so at least the other 2 civs can keep each other busy. Mansa is running away with the tech lead.

I sit in a defensive war with Monty until about 1200 AD when I finally feel able to go on the offensive. Part of the delay was that this was the worst game I can ever remember for battles. If I lost one more battle where my odds were 90% or higher I was going to go crazy. Happened over and over. I really wondered if something was wrong with my game because it seemed like both on the attack I'd lose 40% of my 90%+ attacks and on defense it seemed like my best units didn't always defend. Can't tell you how many times my Knights died to a Horse Archer!

By 1200 I was finally ready to go on the attack and in 1265 captured my first Aztec city then captured 3 more until I gave a temporary peace around 1450 AD. In 1465 I DOW on Khan who is losing his war badly with Mansa (which has helped me get to 2nd on the power list). I want to grab a few of his cities before they are all gone. This proves shortly to be a very good decision.

Within a short 100 years I capture 3 of the last 4 Mongol cities and they are out of the game.
I waste no time turning back to the Aztecs who have about 5 or 6 cities left. War wearieness is killing me against them but it won't take me long to finish them off. Meanwhile I'm whipping my citizens like crazy since they will just die from all the unrest anyway.

In 1645 AD the Aztecs are gone and it's just Mansa and I. He still has a 5-7 tech lead on me but in checking the game status it shows he has 31% of the land and I need 68% for a domination win. Grabbing those last few Mongol cities left the door open to go for a win without having to fight Mansa. So I fortify my border cities and start planting cities in every blank gap of my empire.

Domination win is achieved in 1735 AD.

Only win I've ever had at this level. I did take the easy start with the gold and my score was only 50k something but still I'm very satisfied! Thanks for the game!
 
(Contender)
In the beginning of the game I persued a risky strategy, staying at one city for a long time and founding Buddhism, building Stonehenge (because of nothing better to do) and making the oracle slingshot to CS, founding Confucianism in the process. After that, straight to alphabet and tech dominance aided by Mansa exchanges. One more thing I did right in the early stages was founding my second culture city by the pigs, iron and floodplains before the Aztecs could snatch that site. To get to all these things first I skipped some basic things, like researching BW or pottery. I even debated skipping the wheel, but decided that the useful ablity of building roads (and therefore "always something to do for your worker") was just too important.

I barely missed out on Pyramids and the Pantheon to the Aztecs. With a little more focus, I could have gotten those too. Especially the Pantheon would have helped my game. The Pyramids were not so important in hindsight because I hardly missed being in Representation. I had two civics changes in total, that each cost me only one turn. The first to Bureaucracy and Caste System, the second to Free Speech, Free Religion and Hereditary Rule. That's right, no slavery and no religious civic that makes use of a state religion. I never switched to a state religion in order not to piss off the AI. Also, I glady gave tribute when demanded early in the game.

One major mistake I made, because of being a little rusty in cultural, was starting the temples and cathedrals later than I should have. I had 4 religions in total, after using my first Great Prophet to found Christianity and founding Taoism from research. I then needed only 4 cities to build 8 cathedrals, because it's 2 temples per cathedral on Quick.

Another feature of my game was that I had no real GA-farm and in fact as luck would have it, I never got a GA except the one from Music. Here the Pantheon might have improved things. Of course, the Great Priests founded shrines, the GS founded academies and the first GM was used for a trade mission. Getting the second GM from the city where I had built the GLH and the Colossus was a bit of a bummer though.

I founded the third cultural city on the coast, to the northwest of the Capital (cows, clams, sugar and banana's). This city in time snatched me a Persian city without any fuss from Cyrus. I also took a barb city in the south. Later on I got over-confident, refusing tribute to the Aztecs. I felt that with my superior military knowledge, war with the Aztecs might be OK. Bad mistake: never having yet fought any war, Monty proceeded to throw an insane amount of units at me. He came to the gates of my southwest Cultural city, but there he botched it in one battle, throwing all his units at my strong defenders. Shortly after that he took peace, gifting me 300 gold.

Being a revengeful sort of leader, one turn before my third city went Legendary (which was also the first turn after the peace treaty ended) I took one city from Monty, ending the game with 6 cities.
 
I think I like quick speed. Everything needs less :hammers::science::culture:, but you get the same :hammers::commerce::science::culture::gold: from buildings, improvements and specialists. That's good :)

So I knew that Monty will attack me sooner than later but did nothing to prevent that. And he attacked me. Barely managed to survive and made peace. Stupid mf attacked me again, but this time I wasn't so forgiving and kept going till I took all of his cities.

Then I thought of going for domination. I was going to attack GK, but Mansa was faster. And closer to GK. So I had to attack Cyrus even though we were at friendly :( By the time I took care of Cyrus, Mansa was already building SS parts. He looked too strong for me, so I went for very late space instead of very late domination.
 
I do not like quick speed at all, I do not like it Sam-I-am.

I played this game completly unconcentrated as a distraction from other work (playing a few moves between grading papers on some occasions)... That, combined with the fact that quick speed messes up all my instincs with regards to attacking, micro, whipping, everything, and also makes me deal with weird rounding numbers which I certainly could not be bothered with in this type of playing, lead to an pretty sloppy effort.

I started of OK, managing a quick CS-sling, and an early great library, while growing peacefully to 6 cities. All was great at this time!

The barb wave came, and was pretty nasty, but I survived it OK, despite loosing my first two warriors at very good odds, which set me back a bit.

Problems started later... Because Cyrus had cramped me with his 3rd city, I decided to Elepult him. I took a city or two, but then the effect of quick speed became apparent, and he was able to assmble a counter force which actually took back the cities I had taken...

My second wave included Chokunu's and was successful, so I eventually overran him, but it was so inneficient that I was already starting to fall behind some AI's...

Indeed, I did manage to barely win the Lib race (took physics), but it was clear that I had missed the bus, and would not be able to keep up with MM, or even Monty, in a space race, nor could I stand up to either militarily.

Fortunately, I had bribed both of them into the Cyrus war, so I was pretty friendly with them... I decided to attemp a UN victory.

I bee-lined mass media, and got it roughly at the same time as Mansa. (He then beat me to Bio.)...

I did have a slightly lead in land, and farmed everything in anticipation of a tight vote... By the time I got the UN built, the situation was:

Me = 43% of population
Monty +9 with me, but my UN opponent = 21% of pop
Mansa +16 with me, 19%
GK +3 or so with me... irrelevant... ~16%
Cyrus = dead.

61% was needed, and Mansa was happy to let me win... :)

IF Mansa was a human player instead of an AI, I would have been smashed. By the end of the game, I had about 25% of his millitary strenght (and about 35% of that of Monty), and was 4 techs behind Monty, and I cannot even guess how many behind Mansa (He had a visible 4 tech lead, but he had had that for 15 turns, so I imagine he was up another 2 or 3 by the end.)

Anyway, the result is an ~100K points UN victory.
 
It sounds like this was a very interesting game.

@PattonTwo
Congratulations on your emperor win. Quick is more difficult. Domination/conquest more so.
 
I went to Space in 1914.

I really kind of expected a better date, but the endgame always takes so long for me. I was even with Mansa in techs pretty nearly the whole game, and had lots of trades, so I'm not sure what the problem was.

Picking up from my first spoiler post - I did try for some midgame expansion with Cavalry. I decided to go up against Monty because he was still using LBs, Maces, etc. while Cyrus was upgrading to Grens. The first part of the war was awful. He threw 3 times as many units at my stack of Cavalry after I took one city. I ended up abandoning the city and getting a peace deal. I teched Steel in the downtime, built a crapload of Cannons and tried again. I also bribed Mansa into attacking him from the other side. This time Monty couldn't handle it. He actually upgraded to Grens and eventually Rifles, but it was too late to reverse the momentum. I got about 5 of his cities and Mansa got 2 or 3. That was kind of a problem because Mansa had already killed Khan and now had 46% of the land.

I was blessed with GE's late in the game, so I got Space Elevator with 2 of them and had the one from Fusion left over to build Rock n' Roll. GE's seemed nerfed though. I had to put 3 turns of production into the Elevator even after the 2 GE's. Still, without them I don't know if I would've actually beaten Mansa to space.

I don't think I realized how vastly different the Space Race is in BtS compared to Vanilla. I knew there were different techs for some parts, but the fact that you don't have to wait 10 turns for the ship to travel... that seems so strange now. Yet another reason I wonder why I didn't get an earlier date.
 
Domination 1505 AD.

My first quick speed game ever (never even tried it in casual games), and I can't say I like it. Everything was just...off. Ironically the game itself too way longer than most of my recent games on normal speed. :D In the end I just wanted it to end it quickly, so I chose culture/settler-border pops instead of total war.

In all fairness, the game speed was not the only reason the game went so bad. AI was surprisingly tough, RNG gave me the finger too many times :cry:, and of course my utter incompetence played a major role. That and mapmaker's evil decision to pick two of the worst AI to conquer early. Immortals and skirmishers on hill cities are not nice :mad:.

Anyway, thanks for the game...but let's keep that quick setting away for the next 100 games :).
 
The End

Oh dear. It's 1675AD. Here I was, in the final phase of my land grab prior to turning off the wars and making my way to space. I have 27 cities, but war weariness of up to 24 (!) per city means they are all basically capped at size 10. I have Cyrus down to one last city, which Mansa Musa (also in the war) is likely to capture.

But I made the fatal mistake a few turns ago of culture-bombing Persepolis, to try and shorten the war. I didn't realize just how much land that would give me, and now on checking, I'm now only 1% short of domination. A quick assessment of how my borders are going to grow tells me I'll probably have to gift Mansa at least 3 cities to avoid domination. Not a pleasant thought.

I decide to sleep on it.

It's been a hard day (with work, not with Civ ;) ) and I badly oversleep the next day. And I realize after I wake up that there's only 1 hour left before the submission deadline!

Umm. Oops!

So no time to go to space. The only way I'm going to be able to submit at all is by letting the upcoming domination play out.

So, I played a few more turns and – domination at 1690AD. Oh dear. To think what my empire could have been like if I'd ended the war a bit earlier and those cities all grew to size 20! Or alternatively, how much sooner I could have achieved domination if I'd actually been trying for it, and so didn't have half my cities still building universities and things.

Anyway… Back to the start of the game…

The Beginning

I settled in place. 2nd city went to the NE to claim the copper and horses East of the capital – sharing a lot of tiles with the capital. 3rd city to the NW to get the horses. This would ultimately become my heroic epic city.

I've never really used cho-ko-nu's much but have read on the forums that they are powerful, so I thought I'd use this game to try them out. So I basically beelined machinery while expanding peacefully, with the aim of trying to take out a nearby opponent with cho-ko-nu stacks. Hopefully that would give me enough land to attempt a space victory – leaving 3 opponents (at least for now) for tech trading).

When I realized that Mansa Musa was one of the opponents, my plans changed: Since he would trade monopoly techs, I figured I may as well wipe out everyone else – and I'll still have a spacerace trading partner.

Cho-Ko-Nus are Great!

And – wow! Cho-ko-nu's really are powerful. They can even take on longbowmen-defended cities if the cities aren't on hills! Montezuma went first, but he was producing so many units that after taking his capital, I had to stop the war to regroup. Then there was a bit of a panic because Cyrus had a massive army and was in have-enough-on-our-hands mode. But it turned out his target was Genghis. I finished off Monty then joined in the Genghis war. With the quick speed, techs were advancing rapidly so I was fighting this war mostly with knights and cannon. Cyrus had knights, macemen, and towards the end, a few cavalry.

That war was easy because Cyrus had such overwhelming troop numbers that mostly all I had to do was sneak in and take Mongol cities after the defenders had been worn down. But, to my horror, just as I had my troops poised for the final two cities, Cyrus took them both the same turn (razing one of them).

The Cavalry Problem

Now I had a problem. I wanted to go to war with Cyrus because his cities were causing massive cultural pressure on my northern borders. But he still had enormous stacks of – increasingly, cavalry. I was just starting to get riflemen online, but mostly only had cannon and knights – no match for cavalry.

Then a thought occurred to me.

Is it possible that…..?

Yes!

I waited a couple of turns, and Cyrus piled basically his entire army into his most recently captured Mongol city.

It hadn't come out of revolt yet – and even better – many of his units were not yet healed.

And that meant – no borders - so I could declare war – and my CR2 and CR3 cannon would be able to take the city and wipe out the entire stack on the same turn...
That was definitely the sweetest moment of the game. Something like 30-40 Persian cavalry and knights no longer a threat.

After that, my troops returned to the West and slowly advanced into Persian territory, until that unfortunate discovery that I'd taken too much land and spent too much real-life time warring with a submission deadline looming, and the space race was not to be.
 
Challenger game.

Hmmm, Stone nearby... a Settler went to settle there quickly... only to find a Barb City with Archers defending it! So much for an early Stonehenge and Pyramids using our Industrious Trait + Stone bonus.

How about The Oracle? Ummm, well, greed got in the way and instead of taking Metal Casting, we got about halfway through self-teching it (in the hopes of grabbing Machinery) before Mansa grabbed Feudalism with The Oracle. Lovely. Mansa didn't take too long to spread Feudalism throughout the world.

So, Chokos vs Longbowmen it was.

Progress against the AIs was slow and several times Cyrus recaptured some of his Cities, getting an instant 60% Cultural Defence bonus up. I don't recall seeing that happen much in some previous games, so maybe it's a Vanilla thing where the Cultural Defences can immediately be restored.

I kept Genghis unharmed in order to be my trading buddy, although he didn't end up having too many useful techs to offer in the end. Since he liked me so much, I figured that I'd get him to vote for me in the UN, only to do a search in the "differences between Civ versions" thread just before gifting away the City with The UN in it (so that Genghis would cease to be my opponent in the vote) and finding out that I could self-vote in Vanilla. Wow, that made things far less complicated and I needn't have bothered spreading Buddhism around the world so that Genghis would like Monte enough for me to be able to gift The UN to Monte so that Genghis wouldn't be my opponent and so that Genghis wouldn't hate me for gifting a City to a potential Worst Enemy of his.

Golden Ages sure go by rather quickly on Quick Speed!

Oh, yeah, and thanks for using Knights + Riflemen against my Chokos, Mansa. That part of the game was really fun! The saving grace was that I had declared war soon enough that I managed to capture his capital on the turn before he upgraded every non-mounted military unit into a Rifleman. On the plus side, it was nice getting to capture nearly every Wonder in a game with an Industrious Leader, thanks to Mansa having been mostly untouched while all of the others had lost Cities in wars (Mansa took some of Genghis' Cities, which I later took control over--Mansa, you didn't deserve them since you couldn't hold onto them).

I was actually probably better positioned for Space than Diplo but with less than a couple of hours to the submission deadline, a win is a win and you feel happy to take it.

It was hard getting used to the Quick Speed, but I did appreciate the reduction in Worker micro. Once you build/capture The Hagia Sophia, it's nice for Roads on many terrain types to get built within the span of 1 turn. Less turns of pre-Chopping is also nice given that the HOF Mod doesn't have BUFFY's addition of performing the pre-Chopping micromanagement on your behalf.

It was had to get used to the shortened time needed for Cultural Border expansion... having missed out on the Stone Resource for Stonehenge probably hurt me a lot more than I'd thought it might.

For some reason, many of my Cities were hurting in terms of Health... perhaps because I'd overdone it on spamming Temples and Colosseums during wartime when War Weariness, like DynamicSpirit mentioned, had Unhappiness values in the 20s, and thus I just had far more Happiness than Healthiness. Near the end I started building Hospitals just because I had nowhere else useful to dump my Commerce than to unlock them and because so many Cities were feeling the Unhealthiness crunch.

Thanks for the fun game! Chokos were quite effective here, even on Quick Speed against Riflemen, so this game was good practice for next month's game, where the lifespan of the Chokos will be further extended due to the slower game speed.

It was neat to see Mansa finally fearing that I was becoming too advanced, rather than the other way around (had he made it to Infantry, I would have been crying).
 
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