Starlifter and darkborg,
This game's map was known. Meaning you were welcome to look at it any time using the map editor.
This game's map was known. Meaning you were welcome to look at it any time using the map editor.
GOTM 121 Spoiler
- Thread starter Inkerman
- Start date
TY Ali, my mum has made a muck of things 4 me. Though. I've been kicked from the puter & games playing till the 15th, tomorrow, and have a ways to go on this game. But today Im allow to surf for an hour for helping with the chhores,,, I think its best if I do the next game when I can play again, and hope it goes faster b4 someone pulles the plug again. I will download the 122 game, hope to start it tomorrow.
Having just submitted GOTM 122 I got a chance to test this as you suggested. As you guessed, the first time around all my tries were in the same turn. This time I tried several times each turn before moving on to the next. Three turns in a row I failed. On the fourth turn I succeeded. You were right and I learned something new. Thanks.
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
Evidently I neglected to post the remainder of my log last month, so here it is, Part 2:
Spoiler :
starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
COMMENTS
Its been a few weeks since I thought about this game, but...
The game itself was a very good concept, well done.
FRM
The Forest Railroad Machine. Much like a TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine, that cuts huge tunnels like the Chunnel).
A TFE is how I started making a RR at one tile per day through solid forest. You need 9 Engineers, and Railroad (duhhh). The first 3 engineers hop up onto a forest tile. The next turn, all three chop the forest into a plain, then 3 more make the R/RR, then the next three use the RR, and jump up onto the next forest. At this point, the FRM will chomp one tile per day, and convert the forest to plains+RR. The price, in a democracy, is 18 food per day to feed the hordes of workers; the shield cost is irrelevant, since in this sort of game democratic shields are mostly wasted anyway in most villages after RR, because of IRB/RB.
LATE GAME WAR
This was conducted under Democracy, and was no problem to initiate and maintain. Of course, it had to be planned (random instant unplanned wars are a problem, in representative governements, but they key is planning and diplomacy).
MONGOLS: These warlike peoples were reduced to a single Pet village, and were only allowed to produce 1 shield, 2 trade (1 of which was corrupt), and no units. Of course, AI cheating gave them more, but my spies simple removed it each turn with sabotage. The worker was not allowed to have terrain to work, and had to remain as an entertainer. Since their capital was lost, the Pet would be the last village taken, using a subversion.
EGYPTIANS: These seemed a problem, and would probably never agree to a peaceful start of war by demanding they withdraw from my territory when they have no troops or none that are in my territory to begin with. I had the plan to let them complete a wonder that they were working on, but even with AI cheating that was taking way way too long; they would not fight while making a wonder. But when the time came, I made the wonder, they made an eng then the expected 2-move attack unit (a Crusader) and started a catapult; then I surrounded their village and engineer with freight, and the next turn demanded THEY get out of MY territory. Bingo, WAR. And instant death for Egypt. In hindsight, I should have done it years earlier, and not tried the fancy stuff by having they make a 1600 gold (400 shield) wonder, when I am making 25 to 30,000 gold per turn. Chump change.
ROMANS: These were no problem, as I had no communication with them for so long. I demanded they get out, they replied with WAR. We had no units in contact.
ZULU: The Zulu behaved exactly the same as Rome, total WAR.
END GAME PLAN
The plan had been to make helicopters, have then repair at a forward location, then fight and take the capitals of Rome and Zulu. Romans had gunpowder, Zulus did not. I also had sent land forces (Spies, mounted, engineers, an Alpine for Rome, some bribed Knights for Zulu, and a bribed NON (roman) catapult. The speed of the spies far outdistanced the other units as time went by, and suddenly it became clear a much easier, faster, and cheaper way (which should have been obvious).
ROME: A spy emerged from the forest, along with an Alpine, and I bribed a roman settler, which set up a village, made an Airport the next turn, and the next turn made a Vet Stealth. The next turn, most of my spies were out of the Forest, and the stealth easily cleared Rome. The first (nearly dead) helo arrived at Rome, to take the village. The Helos did not stop to wait for the forward village to be founded by the forward engineers; that would have delayed things at least 2 more turns. The Helo was repaired, and my spies started bribing Roman villages. The first approach got a "The Senate passes a resolution supporting continued "peacekeeping" action against the Romans." when we denied reception. Peace was finally forced, but Pisae, Hispalis, Pompeii were subverted for a few hundred gold each. Within two turns, Rome had 1 village left. On the 3rd turn, 1580 AD... dead. The airport was used to send unit in. Freight was sent into the first set of roman cities, which all RB's airports.
ZULU: Similar. The Helos were behind, as the spies came out, but much closer than the Roman Helos were to Rome, and less damaged. The spies started into position, and the first Helos attacked the Zulu capital, and easily captured it. The spies then took the villages in a pattern to have any returns for ready next time. Only the northmost village of Intombe lasted until the 3rd turn, due to the lack of full roads of the lazy Zulus. In 1580, Intombe was subverted.
MONGOL: When Intombe and Ravenna were subverted in 1580, only the Mongol pet city of Aleppo remained, and that was turn out the lights, the party's over.
RAIL
The RR to America, and to the Mongols, was a good idea, and paid off. At first, the roads were not saving the overall construction time by irrigating along the way, but settlers are half of the Engineer speed. The FRM was not used for the American RR, nor for most of the Mongol RR.
The Egypt RR was cancelled outright, since the Mongol RR was already behind, compared to the American RR. A lot of engineers were made in the American lands, and so a FRM was set up and sent in straight line to Germany. This was totally unnecessary, and really a waste of resources. Several more large villages could have been cut out of the forest and grown, for the cost. When connected, Airports were already the preferred way of moving freight, and trade was not conducted on the German RR; it took several micromanage steps with GOTO to get a unit to properly follow the rail from the core villages to Germany.
The Mongol rail crossed a lake, and was never completed as an uninterrupted railroad; units had to board a ship on one side of the lake, and take the ship across, then join back to the RR. The American RR went south of the American lake, and so ships were not a factor for it.
TRADE
The map was a trade map; the distance made for very good caravan/freight returns even for undemanded cargo. Money was not a problem in this game.
SCIENCE
This was slowed by the lack of grassland, or even plains. A double hit occured to science since there were not as many early game settlers available as in grassland maps, and there were no rivers, or gold.
MILITARY
The massive push to IRB a fleet of veteran Helos was a true waste. Hordes of spies could have done the whole thing, and simply bribed enemy units to make the villages (with modern stealth weapons) and units.
SUMMARY
Long game, but still an interesting one. The end game map looks the best of any final map I've seen, with the cutouts for the villages in the middle of forests, and the paths of the RR with the chopped forest under the rail route.
Its been a few weeks since I thought about this game, but...
The game itself was a very good concept, well done.
FRM
The Forest Railroad Machine. Much like a TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine, that cuts huge tunnels like the Chunnel).
A TFE is how I started making a RR at one tile per day through solid forest. You need 9 Engineers, and Railroad (duhhh). The first 3 engineers hop up onto a forest tile. The next turn, all three chop the forest into a plain, then 3 more make the R/RR, then the next three use the RR, and jump up onto the next forest. At this point, the FRM will chomp one tile per day, and convert the forest to plains+RR. The price, in a democracy, is 18 food per day to feed the hordes of workers; the shield cost is irrelevant, since in this sort of game democratic shields are mostly wasted anyway in most villages after RR, because of IRB/RB.
LATE GAME WAR
This was conducted under Democracy, and was no problem to initiate and maintain. Of course, it had to be planned (random instant unplanned wars are a problem, in representative governements, but they key is planning and diplomacy).
MONGOLS: These warlike peoples were reduced to a single Pet village, and were only allowed to produce 1 shield, 2 trade (1 of which was corrupt), and no units. Of course, AI cheating gave them more, but my spies simple removed it each turn with sabotage. The worker was not allowed to have terrain to work, and had to remain as an entertainer. Since their capital was lost, the Pet would be the last village taken, using a subversion.
EGYPTIANS: These seemed a problem, and would probably never agree to a peaceful start of war by demanding they withdraw from my territory when they have no troops or none that are in my territory to begin with. I had the plan to let them complete a wonder that they were working on, but even with AI cheating that was taking way way too long; they would not fight while making a wonder. But when the time came, I made the wonder, they made an eng then the expected 2-move attack unit (a Crusader) and started a catapult; then I surrounded their village and engineer with freight, and the next turn demanded THEY get out of MY territory. Bingo, WAR. And instant death for Egypt. In hindsight, I should have done it years earlier, and not tried the fancy stuff by having they make a 1600 gold (400 shield) wonder, when I am making 25 to 30,000 gold per turn. Chump change.
ROMANS: These were no problem, as I had no communication with them for so long. I demanded they get out, they replied with WAR. We had no units in contact.
ZULU: The Zulu behaved exactly the same as Rome, total WAR.
END GAME PLAN
The plan had been to make helicopters, have then repair at a forward location, then fight and take the capitals of Rome and Zulu. Romans had gunpowder, Zulus did not. I also had sent land forces (Spies, mounted, engineers, an Alpine for Rome, some bribed Knights for Zulu, and a bribed NON (roman) catapult. The speed of the spies far outdistanced the other units as time went by, and suddenly it became clear a much easier, faster, and cheaper way (which should have been obvious).
ROME: A spy emerged from the forest, along with an Alpine, and I bribed a roman settler, which set up a village, made an Airport the next turn, and the next turn made a Vet Stealth. The next turn, most of my spies were out of the Forest, and the stealth easily cleared Rome. The first (nearly dead) helo arrived at Rome, to take the village. The Helos did not stop to wait for the forward village to be founded by the forward engineers; that would have delayed things at least 2 more turns. The Helo was repaired, and my spies started bribing Roman villages. The first approach got a "The Senate passes a resolution supporting continued "peacekeeping" action against the Romans." when we denied reception. Peace was finally forced, but Pisae, Hispalis, Pompeii were subverted for a few hundred gold each. Within two turns, Rome had 1 village left. On the 3rd turn, 1580 AD... dead. The airport was used to send unit in. Freight was sent into the first set of roman cities, which all RB's airports.
ZULU: Similar. The Helos were behind, as the spies came out, but much closer than the Roman Helos were to Rome, and less damaged. The spies started into position, and the first Helos attacked the Zulu capital, and easily captured it. The spies then took the villages in a pattern to have any returns for ready next time. Only the northmost village of Intombe lasted until the 3rd turn, due to the lack of full roads of the lazy Zulus. In 1580, Intombe was subverted.
MONGOL: When Intombe and Ravenna were subverted in 1580, only the Mongol pet city of Aleppo remained, and that was turn out the lights, the party's over.
RAIL
The RR to America, and to the Mongols, was a good idea, and paid off. At first, the roads were not saving the overall construction time by irrigating along the way, but settlers are half of the Engineer speed. The FRM was not used for the American RR, nor for most of the Mongol RR.
The Egypt RR was cancelled outright, since the Mongol RR was already behind, compared to the American RR. A lot of engineers were made in the American lands, and so a FRM was set up and sent in straight line to Germany. This was totally unnecessary, and really a waste of resources. Several more large villages could have been cut out of the forest and grown, for the cost. When connected, Airports were already the preferred way of moving freight, and trade was not conducted on the German RR; it took several micromanage steps with GOTO to get a unit to properly follow the rail from the core villages to Germany.
The Mongol rail crossed a lake, and was never completed as an uninterrupted railroad; units had to board a ship on one side of the lake, and take the ship across, then join back to the RR. The American RR went south of the American lake, and so ships were not a factor for it.
TRADE
The map was a trade map; the distance made for very good caravan/freight returns even for undemanded cargo. Money was not a problem in this game.
SCIENCE
This was slowed by the lack of grassland, or even plains. A double hit occured to science since there were not as many early game settlers available as in grassland maps, and there were no rivers, or gold.
MILITARY
The massive push to IRB a fleet of veteran Helos was a true waste. Hordes of spies could have done the whole thing, and simply bribed enemy units to make the villages (with modern stealth weapons) and units.
SUMMARY
Long game, but still an interesting one. The end game map looks the best of any final map I've seen, with the cutouts for the villages in the middle of forests, and the paths of the RR with the chopped forest under the rail route.
