GOTM 126 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

+1020 Barbarian caravel at undefended Khanbalyk; no units depart. Zulu bribe away Roman Neapolis, a major city of size 8. Tactics -> Magnetism. Beads to Zulu for 38. Domestic Beads for 26. Roman -> 100g.
+1040 Rifleman (from a neighboring city) survives 2 barbarian Knights and turns vet. Romans reach peace with Zulu. Power jumped to Mighty. Barbarian Caravel bought for 82g. Roman -> 50g.
+1060 Power is for the first time Supreme. Tactics -> Roman (5) -> Explosives, 100g. Tactics -> Persian (2) -> Theory of Gravity. Westness founded. Silk to Zulu for 534.
+1080 Zulu sneak attack and kill an empty caravel. Romans declare war on Zulu. Magnetism -> Electricity. Zulu dragoon killed. Silver to Romans for 330. Magnetism -> Roman -> 100g.
+1100 Zulu attack Qunisay with 2 dragoons and raze the city after losing one dragoon. Zulu dragoon killed. 4 barbarian knights from hut kill my rifleman the next turn.
+1120 Zulu kill my cannon. 2 Zulu units killed. Silver to Zulu for 170. T3L4S3.
+1140 Cavalry survives Zulu Knight and Galleon survives Zulu caravel. Greek cancel alliance over my refusal to share Conscription. They have been pretty unhappy with me lately. Electricity -> Refrigeration. Gold to Zulu Ulundi from Samarkand for 866. Coal to Zulu for 370. 3 Cavalry lost in attack on Zulu.
+1160 Zulu deliver to Cordoba. Refrigeration -> Atomic Theory. Copper, Silk to Romans for 224, 240.
+1180 2 Zulu units killed. Gold to Unlundi for 732.
+1200 Atomic Theory -> Railroad. 1 Zulu unit killed. T5L4S1. Senate hands Vikings peace.
+1220 Zulu-captured Neapolis bribed for 938. Deliveries to Zulu for 348, 304. Senate hands Zulu cease fire. T6L4S0
+1240 Alpine survives barbarian knight and turns vet. Spanish asked for war on Zulu. I complied and senate did not object. 3 Zulu units killed. Spice to Zulu for 492. T5L4S1. Shangtu founded on the Y.
+1260 Railroad -> Industrialization. 3 Zulu units killed losing a Cannon in the process. Gems to Greeks for 144. Coal to Zulu for 540.
+1280 Somehow the cavalry I had next to Ulundi ended up in Basra which happens to be my closest city to Ulundi. I am still at war with the Zulu. How did this happen? Destroyer lost on Ulundi. Undemanded deliveries for 72, 163, 95.
+1300 Industrialization -> Corporation. Roman -> 100g. Another destroyer lost on Ulundi. 3 Zulu units killed. Zulu Ulundi captured for Magellan, 93g, and Harbor. Gold, Beads to Spanish for 360, 211. Undemanded delivery for 55. Domestic Coal for 420. Jarrow founded in southern Scandinavia. T2L4S4
+1320 Corporation -> Steel. Beads to Persians for 264. Senate hands Zulu cease fire as soon as my first cavalry lands next to Zimbabwe. Spanish -> 300g and war with Zulu! 4 cavalry kill 4 musketeers defending Zimbabwe. The city is taken for obsolete Hanging Gardens and 56g. Zulu government escapes to Bapedi. 200g from hut. Skara founded in northern Scandinavia. Roman -> 50g. T6L4S0
+1340 1 Zulu unit killed. Senate hands Zulu yet another cease fire. Silk to Rome for 846. Shiraz founded on the neutral island which has 4 isles. T5L4S1. 1400g spent on Darwin.
+1360 Steel -> Genetic Engineering -> Machine Tools -> Electronics. Darwin built. Domestic Gems for 1005. T2L4S4. Neyriz founded near Shiraz. Gonbad founded on 8-isle neutral land near Kazan. Spent 2200 on Cure. Corporation -> Roman -> 50g.
+1380 Electronics -> Miniaturization. Cure for Cancer built. T3L3S4. Tus founded on the Y. Khoy founded in southern Italy. Barbarian leader captured for 100g. Spice to Rome for 846. Roman -> 25g.
+1400 Spanish build Eiffel. Miniaturization -> Refining. Fasau founded on the 4-isle neutral land. Marv and Balkh founded on the Y. Used Spanish war with Zulu as an excuse again now that all my troops are healed to start yet another war on Zulu circumventing the senate. 7 Zulu units killed. Umtata captured. Roman -> 50g. T6L3S1
+1420 Zulu Mpondo captured. Southeast Zulu island is now free of Zulu. Laur founded as the final city on the 4-isle neutral land.
+1440 Senate hands Zulu another cease fire. First offshore platform built. Deliveries to Zulu for 510, 450. Quchan founded on the Y.
+1460 Refining -> Combustion. First pollution appears. Miniaturization -> Roman -> 100g. Domestic Cloth for 465. Roman -> 100g. Silk to Romans for 822.
+1480 Combustion -> Automobile. Rifleman from hut. T1L3S6
+1500 Barbarian Frigate shows up by Gonbad but they do not depart. Automobile -> Mass Production. Domestic deliveries for 817, 228. Sabzevar and Mashhad founded on the Y. Babol founded on the 8-isle neutral island. T4L3S3

Status at +1500
Population: 34.4M; Cities: 48; Techs: 63; Government: Democracy
Gold: 280; Cost: 119; Trade routes: 32D30F;
Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Hanging Gardens
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Liberty, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin
Modern Wonders: Cure
Units: 9 Engineers, 35 defenders, 6 Cavalry, 3 Destroyers, 11 Transports, 4 Diplomats, 10 Freight, 1 Explorer
Footprint: 2 cities in Mongolia, 4 in Spain, 12 in Scandinavia, 6 in Zululand, 5 in Italy, 19 in Neutral land.
Goals: Continuation of expansion in Scandinavia, southern Italy, and neutral land. SETI, Newton.
Roman: 16 cities, 59 techs; Pyramids, King Richards, Shakespeare; War with Zulu, allied with me
Zulu: 10 cities, 38 techs; Great Wall; War with Romans and Spanish
Viking: 1 cities, 30 techs; War with Romans and Zulu
Spanish: 5 cities, 54 techs; Great Library, Sun Tzu, Eiffel; War with Zulu, allied with me
Persian: 3 cities, 54 techs; Allied with me
Greek: 2 cities, 29 techs;

 

[Inkerman]

Status at 1500

Temporarily loss of full intelligence on opponents.

Population: 64 (24/21/10/9, 6,310,000); Cities: 4; Trade routes: 4D3F; Government: Democracy
Gold: 1370; Cost per turn: 56; Total advances: 36; Mfg: 31; GNP (total income) 241;
Wonders: Marco Polo, Copernicus, Magellan Others = 17 plus ? building.
Units: 1 Settler, 2 Phalanx, 4 Musketeers, 1 Galleon, 2 Ironclad, 2 Transport, 2 Dip, 5 Vans.
T5L4S1. Discoveries every 20 turns. Moderate and Excellent.

Romans: (6) Receptive, Peace, - 1417g. 51 techs, 14 cities.
Zulus: (5) Uncoop, Peace, -
Vikings: (4) Hostile, Peace, -
Spanish: (1) Enthusiastic, Peace, -
Persians: (2) Enthusiastic, Allied, - ~47 techs, 3 cities.
Carthage: (0) Enthusiastic, Peace, -

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Inkerman,
I see that you had Greeks beat prior to +1000. Why did you not expand between +1000 and +1500? Did you purposefully stayed with 4 cities?

 

[Inkerman]

What went on with my game in the 25 turns between 1000 and 1500 (and a bit more)?

a) I built city improvements - the turn cost going from 24g to 56g.
b) I became a democracy.
c) The population increased.
d) I delivered a few vans, which because of a), b) and c) brought in significant funds.

I felt that this would result in a better position than founding a city or cities in the north, although I was getting around to that too. Note I don't have many wonders, and no happiness ones. How often do we play so far into a deity game without a happiness wonder? I'm not at this stage able to take on the major AI opponents, and they are not terribly friendly.

It's quite different from your own game where you got off to a flier compared to me, and were able to build up in a way that is perhaps more familiar to this forum.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

My original strategy for this game was to tech directly for navigation, thereby avoiding the early wonder race. I abandoned this plan relatively quickly, once I realized I would have nothing to produce for a long time, I instead built Lighthouse (just barely) and set sail for the northern uninhabited islands.

I was expecting the game to proceed from then more or less like a regular game would, just somewhat delayed. It didn't proceed like that, however. The Zulus and especially the Romans were a constant threat, able to land current units pretty much anywhere. The geography of the map gave no protection whatsoever from these kinds of attacks, so I was forced to spend non-trivial sums in defense, and still lost cities from time to time. I never established a shipchain from the northern islands to the south because I would have been unable to protect it.

I think my greatest mistake was not paying tribute to the Romans, which would have allowed me to proceed without constant fear of attack.

Because of these challenges, the gameplay was actually quite interesting. I felt I was constantly short of resources (the length of time between my acquisition of Theology and my building of Bach's underscores this, although I would have built it faster if someone else had started) meaning that I had to make tough decisions about what I did. I ran high taxes to get income, and relied on intermittant caravan deliveries for most of my science (except in a few instances), along with tech trades and steals. This slow tech progression (and fear of attack) allowed me to build Marines for defense (I think they are great multipurpose units for their time period), something I haven't done in a long time.

4000 BC: Hut: ALPHABET!!!
3900 BC: Build Karakorum
3650 BC: Map Making
2750 BC: Begin Lighthouse.
2450 BC: MONARCHY Established.

2000 BC:

Cities: 2.
Treasury: 68g
Government: Monarchy
Science 70%, Taxes 30%. Income: 4; Costs: 0; Discoveries: 8 turns
WONDERS: None
Units: 1 Settler(non), 3 warriors, 1 trireme.
Techs: 7
No Contact

1300 BC: TRADE.
1250 BC: ROMANS build MPE.
1200 BC: LIGHTHOUSE built.
1000 BC: Aliance with Spanish.

1000 BC:

Cities: 2
Treasury: 41g
Government: Monarchy
Science 50%, Taxes 30%. Income: 5; Costs: 0; Discoveries: 17 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse (7 built total)
Units: 2 settlers, 4 warriors, 1 caravan, 2 triremes
Techs: 11
Spanish: Allied.


925 BC: FIRST DELIVERY to Persians for 203g.
775 BC: Pay 50g to Zulus, but can't get a tech.
725 BC: ZULUS have MONOTHEISM
700 BC: ADVANCED TRIBE near ZULUS.
525 BC: ZULUS raze my Advanced Tribe.

500 BC:

Cities: 2
Treasury: 463
Government: Monarchy
Science 30%, Taxes 70%. Income: 21; Costs: 0; Discoveries: 37 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse (8 built total)
Units: 2 settlers, 3 triremes, 3 caravans, 1 elephant, 4 warriors.
Techs: 17
Zulus: Enraged, WAR.
Vikings: Hostile, Cease Fire
Spanish: Enthusiastic, Allied
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace

400 BC: BUILD Nishapur on south tip of Islands below "Y" continent.
350 BC: MONOTHEISM
175 BC: ROMANS build LEONARDO's WORKSHOP. I BUILD Kashgar near north of "Y" continent.
75 BC: I build MICHELANGELO's CHAPEL
25 BC: REPUBLIC established.


AD 1:

Cities: 4
Treasury: 142
Government: Republic
Science 0, Taxes 80%. Income: 50; Costs: 2; Discoveries: 285 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse, Mike's (12 total)
Units: 3 triremes, 4 military, 3 diplomats, 0 settlers, 0 caravans
Techs: 19
Zulus: Enraged, WAR.
Vikings: Hostile, Cease Fire
Spanish: Enthusiastic, Allied
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace

AD 200: Embassy with ROMANS.
AD 220: Give Romans Polytheism in exchange for DEMOCRACY (wanted to have it so I could switch when ready)
AD 260: WAR with ROMANS
AD 280: Barb attack on Kashgar causes population decrease and 2 (bribed -- I didn't have Navigation) caravels are disbanded.
AD 360: PEACE with ZULUS
AD 380: Romans take Tabriz.
AD 400: Liberate Tabriz and get GUNPOWDER. WAR with Greeks.

AD 500:

Cities: 5
Treasury: 655
Government: Republic
Science 40%, Taxes 40%. Income: 43; Costs: 3; Discoveries: 13 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse, Mike's Chapel (13 total)
Units: 1 settler, 3 trireme, 4 diplomat, 4 caravan, 4 military
Techs: 23
Power: Inadequate
Romans: Enraged War, 244g
Zulus: Neutral, Peace
Vikings: Uncooperative, Cease Fire, 880g
Spanish: Enthusiastic Allied, 1587g
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace, 566g
Greeks: Enraged, War, 344g.


AD 680: Get NAVIGATION from ZULUS, who HAVE CONSCRIPTION!
AD 860: ROMANS BRIBE Ormuz, I lose Trireme, diplomat, 2 settlers. BUILD MAGELLAN's EXPEDITION
AD 900: Pay 32g for Ormuz, get so many units I have to disband some, and INVENTION.
AD 920: Build Basra, start to get FIRST CITIZEN UNHAPPY
AD 960: Romans RAZE Ormuz. Bribe Aurelianorum and get PHYSICS.

AD 1000:
Cities: 11
Treasury: 497
Government: Republic
Science 50%, Taxes 30%. Income: 42; Costs: 5; Discoveries: 14 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse, Mike's, Magellan's (15 total)
Units: 0 settlers, 1 trireme, 3 caravel, 2 diplomat, 4 caravans 7 military (plus 4 more muskets in production)
Techs: 34
Power: Inadequate
Romans: Enraged War, 454g
Zulus: Neutral, Peace, 727g
Vikings: Hostile, Cease Fire, 921g
Spanish: Enthusiastic Allied, 2023g
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace, 1056g
Greeks: Enraged, War, 410g.

AD 1060: Get MAGNETISM and METALLURGY from SPANISH.
AD 1120: THEOLOGY
AD 1180: DEMOCRACY ESTABLISHED
AD 1200: Barbs TAKE Khorasan
AD 1260: ELECTRICITY, which is used to defend coast until Romans get Ironclads.
AD 1340: CONSCRIPTION and TACTICS acquired from Spanish.
AD 1360: ROMANS and ZULUS develop RAILROAD, which I ACQUIRE from latter civ.
AD 1420: ROMANS take IMPORTANT CITY of Nishapur using Ironclads and an Engineer. They take Tactics. I develop AMPHIBIOUS WARFARE.
AD 1440: BRIBE back Nishapur, get 2 Ironclads.
AD 1480: Get INDUSTRIALIZATION from SPANISH (Who got it from Romans).

AD 1500:
Cities: 17
Treasury: 1327
Government: Democracy
Science 0, Taxes 80%. Income: 215; Costs: 5; Discoveries: 1470 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse, Mike's, Magellan's (16 total)
Units: 2 engineers, 2 galleons (3 transport in production), 14 military (including 3 marines with 2 more, + 1 riflemen, in production) 3 warships, 4 diplomats, 9 caravans
Techs: 49
Power: Inadequate
Romans: Enraged, WAR, 392
Zulus: Cordial, Peace, 952,
Vikings: Hostile, Cease Fire, 893
Spanish: Enthusiastic, Allied, 1869
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace, 1601
Greeks: Enraged, War, 482

AD 1540: Bribe CAESAREA from Romans and get Steel.
AD 1550: Romans TAKE Naples (bribed back next turn). THE CORPORATION
AD 1580: Karakorum builds JS BACH's CATHEDRAL
AD 1660: I TAKE HISPALIS with 3 marines and a musketeer. Get GUERRILLA WARFARE and PEACE with ROMANS.
AD 1700: Remark in my notes that I feel "RELATIVELY SECURE" in part because Romans have complied with 2 withdrawal demands.
AD 1720: Road network on "Y" Continent finished.
AD 1740: SPANISH build UN. All cities have at least one black hat.

AD 1750:

Cities: 32
Treasury: 965
Government: Democracy
Science 10%, Taxes 20%. Income: 101; Costs: 39; Discoveries: 36 turns
WONDERS: Lighthouse, Mike's, Magellan's, Bach's (21 total)
Units: 6 Engineers, 5 transports (2 galleons), 5 warships, 17 military (11 marines), 6 diplomats, 13 freight.
Techs: 55
Power: Strong
Romans: Receptive, Peace, 1938
Zulus: Cordial, Peace, 3929
Vikings: Hostile, Cease Fire, 834
Spanish: Enthusiastic, Allied, 2050
Persians: Enthusiastic, Peace 2028
Greeks: Enraged, War, 530

In the subsequent turns, I rose in power. The advanced state of the AI has allowed me to skip flight and communism, avoiding the penalties associated with those techs. Not having flight is a huge asset, making non demanded deliveries between the North and Spain worth about 700 on average (demanded goods usually hit the 2/3 mark); the quality of these deliveries has allowed me to skip my usual requirement of superhighways in trading cities. I have airports in my home cities and captured greek cities that allow me to send units to Spain (ship chain is established and protected for that route) along with a city in Persia. These advantages have put me in the curious position that I can't take more than one enemy city without getting hurtful techs.

Unfortunately, turns are getting so long that I don't know if I will be able to finish the game.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Interesting log, Professor Garfield.

I instead built Lighthouse (just barely) and set sail for the northern uninhabited islands.

Looks like I am the only one so far, who decided to have colonies among rivals.

I was expecting the game to proceed from then more or less like a regular game would, just somewhat delayed. It didn't proceed like that, however. The Zulus and especially the Romans were a constant threat ...

So far that has been everyone's experience. I am glad the map/scenario worked out as intended. I certainly was hoping for more challenge than "delay" and looks like I succeeded.

I never established a shipchain from the northern islands to the south because I would have been unable to protect it.

I wonder if anyone would try that. Even if you were at peace, the mere number of ships would be an issue. Furthermore, as you pointed out the trade cap comes into place even at shorter distances.

I think my greatest mistake was not paying tribute to the Romans, which would have allowed me to proceed without constant fear of attack.

I agree. We have a tendency to not pay tribute. In some situations it works wonders. I got the Spanish to ally with me for 50g. It was more than half my treasury at the time, but it allowed me to build two colonies. I am at +1700 now and they are still an enthusiastic ally.

In my game, I am still allied with Romans and Spanish. All of us are at war with Zulus. While I am far more powerful than Romans by now, if they turn against me it would be a massive war since they have pretty much all military techs already and are getting a new tech almost every turn! I have never seen AI getting one tech per turn for several turns in a row.

1250 BC: ROMANS build MPE.

This is really odd. How many wonders were built at that time? The AI always goes for Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Great Library, and Great Wall before Marco.

1000 BC:
Cities: 2
...
WONDERS: Lighthouse (7 built total)

Wow! Seven wonders by -1000. Were you rivals fighting among themselves at all? By comparison there were only 3 wonders built in the world by that time in my game. This must have set you back quite a bit.

I was immensely helped by war among rivals which kept them all occupied. My allies (Persians, Spanish, and Romans) were all on one side fighting Zulu and/or Vikings.

700 BC: ADVANCED TRIBE near ZULUS.
525 BC: ZULUS raze my Advanced Tribe.

Ouch! That hurts. Losing your third city is bad enough. Having it razed is even worse, because you cannot bribe it back.

AD 1750:
Cities: 32

What is your footprint at this stage?

The advanced state of the AI has allowed me to skip flight and communism, avoiding the penalties associated with those techs.

I suppose the penalty of communism you are referring to is reduction of 1 in the effectiveness of Michelangelo. But that happens when anyone discovers communism and not just you. So I am not sure what you are referring to here.

Not having flight is a huge asset, ... I have airports in my home cities ...

Interesting. You do not have flight, but traded for Radio and have airports! Brilliant.

Unfortunately, turns are getting so long that I don't know if I will be able to finish the game.

Indeed. I am at +1700 and my turns are taking very long as well. We still have several weeks left to the deadline though and extensions are the norm rather than the exception around here.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Looks like I am the only one so far, who decided to have colonies among rivals.

If I had thought of that, I'm not sure I would have done so (though I'm wishing now that I did). I was more interested in getting a decent foothold in the north, so I wasn't going to delay a city in that region for a city with my rivals. By 500 BC, there was only one free space with the Spanish (the Vikings didn't like me very much).

I wonder if anyone would try that. Even if you were at peace, the mere number of ships would be an issue. Furthermore, as you pointed out the trade cap comes into place even at shorter distances.

The Romans and the Zulus were not consistently in a republic or democracy, which was part of the reason I didn't try to make a shipchain to them (although at the times they were, they made quite a lot of scientific progress). Also, the chain would have been in nearly as much danger anyway, because those were the civs that were likely to attack me.

While I am far more powerful than Romans by now, if they turn against me it would be a massive war since they have pretty much all military techs already and are getting a new tech almost every turn! I have never seen AI getting one tech per turn for several turns in a row.

At my point in the game, the Romans (now a democracy) have been getting techs every turn for a few turns now.

This is really odd. How many wonders were built at that time? The AI always goes for Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Great Library, and Great Wall before Marco.

The Romans began Pyramids in 2800 BC, the Zulus began Sun Tzu in 2750 BC, and Vikings the Hanging Gardens in 2450 BC (though they abandoned a few turns later).

Romans built Pyramids in 1900 BC. Zulus built Colossus in 1750 BC (the turn Romans began MPE)

In 1250 BC Romans built MPE, and I got at least 3 nearly completed wonder warnings, making me rush the last 12 shields of Lighthouse to be on the safe side.

At 1000 BC, the Romans had Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and MPE, while the Zulus had Colossus, GL, and Sun Tzu.

Wow! Seven wonders by -1000. Were you rivals fighting among themselves at all? By comparison there were only 3 wonders built in the world by that time in my game. This must have set you back quite a bit.

I was immensely helped by war among rivals which kept them all occupied. My allies (Persians, Spanish, and Romans) were all on one side fighting Zulu and/or Vikings.

All the fighting I recorded in my log is among the more southern nations (who didn't have wonders at that point). I wasn't set back all that much, however, since I didn't really expect to get any more wonders. I probably wouldn't have gone for MPE if it were available, since I knew where my rivals were anyway.

I suppose the penalty of communism you are referring to is reduction of 1 in the effectiveness of Michelangelo. But that happens when anyone discovers communism and not just you. So I am not sure what you are referring to here.

I've checked, and I do indeed get four content citizens from my cathedrals (Mike's) at the moment. So you must have Communism in order to suffer the reduction.

I've attached my 1750 minimap, and added red dots to show where my cities are; saves the trouble of trying to describe the state of the game.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+1510 Barbarian ship moves 1 tile and still no troops land. Zulu break cease fire and lose 3 units. Mass Production -> Computers. The Udal relocated. 50g from hut. Domestic Cloth for 332. T8L2S0
+1520 2 barbarian dragoons land on hill near Gonbad and are easily killed by my vet Alpine. Barbarian Frigate bought for 102g. Zulu Isipezi captured. Birka founded in northern Scandinavia. Undemanded delivery to Persians for 282. Mass Production -> Roman -> Flight.
+1530 Senate hands Zulu another cease fire. Met with Spanish and brought back war with Zulu. Ibabanago captured. 100g from hut. 3 barbarian Knights from hut. Domestic Oil for 431. T6L2S2
+1540 Senate hands Zulu yet another cease fire. Computers -> Radio. Amatikulu founded in SE Zulu island. Deliveries to Athens for 84, 96. Domestic Gems for 164. Silver to Romans for 190. Rifleman and 100g from hut. 1712 spent on SETI. T4L2S4
+1550 Spanish build Suffrage. SETI built. Radio -> Nuclear Fission. Domestic delivery for 134. Zunguin founded in SE Zulu land. Finally an advanced tribe founding Melbourne of size 4 on the 64-isle island. Spanish -> War with Zulu+50g. 3 defenders of Intombe plus 2 other units killed, the city has more defenders and I only brought along 4 cavalry. T8L2S0
+1560 Zulu kill 3 of my cavalry. Domestic delivery for 340. Gorgan founded on the 8-isle neutral island. Tabas founded on the Y. 200g from hut. T5L2S3
+1570 Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power. First Superhighways built. 4 barbarians from hut. Oil, Spice to Romans for 1167, 404. Nuclear Fission -> Spanish -> Communism. T3L2S5
+1580 Nuclear Power -> Espionage -> Recycling. 100g from hut. Domestic deliveries for 300, 720, 554. Jarlshorf founded in northern Scandinavia.
+1590 Spanish -> 100g. First Airports built. Recycling -> Advanced Flight -> Rocketry. Advanced Flight -> Persian -> Mobile Warfare. Zulu dragoon killed. Advanced tribe founds Shush as the first city on 32-isle neutral island. Kush founded on the Y. Domestic Silver for 137.
+1600 Romans steal Machine Tools. I keep the alliance. Rocketry -> Space Flight. 3 Zulu units killed. Domestic deliveries for 396, 548.
+1610 Space Flight -> Environmentalism. Domestic deliveries for 650, 464. Oil to Romans for 1022. Kish founded on a 1-isle neutral island. Sydney founded on the 64-isle neutral island. Shanjan and Ganje founded in southern Italy. Spy establishes Spanish embassy.
+1620 Environmentalism -> Laser -> Robotics. Domestic deliveries for 1097, 755. Amol founded on the 8-isle neutral island. Quinsay founded again in north Zululand. Zulu embassy established.
+1630 Robotics -> Plastics -> Superconductor. Harat founded on the Y, Nakhjavan in southern Italy, Kharg on the other 1-isle neutral land. Now all islands have at least one city on them. Copper to Vikings for 419. Domestic deliveries for 708, 934. T4L2S4. Zulu Amatikulu razed for 25g. Loaded Zulu caravel sunk.
+1640 Superconductor -> Stealth -> Fusion Power. Lost a destroyer in attack on Zulu Intombe. Domestic deliveries for 260, 534. Gems to Romans for 1272. Shushtar founded. Ghaznin founded on the Y.
+1650 Vikings sneak attack and lose a knight. Fusion Power -> Combined Arms -> Future Tech 1. Nine tiles are polluted. Senate hands Zulu another cease fire. Met with Spanish and got war back on. Zulu Intombe captured for 214g. Yet another cease fire and this time met with Romans to bring the war back on and get rid of two Zulu diplomats who would otherwise steal techs the next turn. Zulu caravel sunk. Rasht and Shakaville founded. Deliveries to Romans for 285, 324, 532, 1321. Domestic deliveries for 160.
+1660 Zulu reach peace with Spanish. Future Tech 1 -> 2 -> 3. Hoover Dam and Newton built. Shervan founded in southern Italy, Canberra in 64-isle island, Kerman in northern Zululand. Domestic deliveries for 190, 13, 75. Foreign deliveries for 410, 570, 147, 200.
+1670 Romans have been getting one advance per turn in recent turns. Spanish steal Space Flight. I keep the alliance. Future Tech 3 -> 4 -> 5. Zulu Ironclad sunk. Lahijan founded. Losing one cavalry Zulu Swazi is captured for 344. Domestic deliveries for 130, 1060, 264, 97.
+1680 Future Tech 5 -> 6 -> 7. Shush relocated. Senate hands Zulu yet another cease fire. Domestic deliveries for 455, 288, 1127.
+1690 Rifleman barely survives Zulu cavalry attack. Future Tech 7 -> 8 -> 9. T5L2S3. 1 Zulu unit killed. Domestic deliveries for 306. Foreign deliveries for 659, 192, 794. Sauri founded.
+1700 Future Tech 9 -> 10 -> 11. Domestic deliveries for 768, 208, 335, 205. Foreign deliveries for 164, 438, 267. Zabol, Qandahar, and Shahi founded.
+1710 Spanish steal Superconductor. I keep the alliance. Future Tech 11 -> 12 -> 13. Vet destroyer kills the single rifleman defending Ngome. The city is taken for 388g. Domestic deliveries for 1104, 910. Foreign deliveries for 730. Sanandaj founded. T1L2S7
+1720 Romans develop Guerrilla warfare. Now it is going to be really ugly if they turn on me. Senate hands Zulu another cease fire. Greeks land troops in southern Spain. Future Tech 13 -> 14 -> 15 -> 16. Greek cannon bribed for 258g. Single defender of Uppsala killed and the city taken for 336g. Viking civilization destroyed. Domestic deliveries for 875, 654, 244. Foreign deliveries for 334. T5L2S3
+1730 Future Tech 16 -> 17 -> 18. Sirjan, Rey, and Brisbane founded. Domestic deliveries for 402, 360, 388, 362, 47, 232. Foreign Deliveries for 192, 404, 294. T2L2S6
+1740 Spy foils Zulu espionage attempt. They break cease fire and kill a spy and destroyer in Ngome rendering the city defenseless. Spanish build UN. Greek sneak attack and kill an Engineer. Spanish came to our aid and kill the Greek offender. Future Tech 18 -> 19 -> 20 -> 21. In the middle of the processing of my cities I get a message that Zulu developed Medicine! I have never seen this before. The event is repeatable, as long as the spy manages to foil the espionage attempt. 2 Zulu units killed. Domestic deliveries for 227. Foreign deliveries for 524, 950, 484, 710. Umtata and Mpondo relocated.
+1750 Gave 3 techs to Spanish to improve their attitude from Neutral to Enthusiastic. Future Tech 21 -> 22 -> 23 -> 24. Domestic deliveries for 68, 966, 859. Foreign deliveries for 787, 196. Greek caravel sunk. 2 Zulu cannons killed. I just noticed that Spanish are back to Neutral and Romans and Persians are uncooperative.

Status at +1750
Population: 93.5M; Cities: 88; Techs: 84+23FT; Government: Democracy
Gold: 62; Cost: 661; Trade routes: 175;
Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse, Colossus, Hanging Gardens
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Liberty, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, Newton
Modern Wonders: Cure, Dam, SETI
Units: 28 Engineers, 57 defenders, 2 Cavalry, 1 None Cannon, 1 Stealth Fighter, 1 Frigate, 1 Destroyer, 14 Transports, 4 Diplomats, 2 Spy, 21 Freight
Footprint: 2 cities in Mongolia, 4 in Spain, 15 in Scandinavia, 18 in Zululand, 9 in southern Italy, 40 in Neutral land (all but the largest two neutral islands are full).
Notes: It is nice that my allies have not turned into enemies yet, but I wonder how long that is going to last. Persians are immaterial. Spanish only matter because I have 4 cities in their homeland which hold 5 key wonders. They are all defended but if they attack first they have the needed techs to overwhelm my defenses. Romans matter not just due to the number of their cities, but also because they have a lot of units. My cities in southern Italy hold no wonders (though I am building Apollo there) and I have no cities anywhere else in their homeland.
Goals: Apollo in 1762. Space race to start immediately. Full Space ship launched before 1790. Continuation of the expansion in neutral land but at a lower priority to the space race. Keeping of peace and alliances even at the expense of sharing all space techs.
Roman: (no embassy) 16 cities, almost all techs before Space Flight; Pyramids, King Richards, Shakespeare; War with Zulu, allied with me
Zulu: 5 cities, 45 techs; Great Wall; War with Romans and me
Viking: Destroyed by me
Spanish: 5 cities, 63 techs; Great Library, Sun Tzu, Eiffel, Suffrage, UN; War with Greeks, allied with me
Persian: (no embassy) 3 cities, ~60 techs; Allied with me
Greek: (no embassy) 2 cities, lowest amount of techs; War with me and Spanish

 

[Prof. Garfield]

In the middle of the processing of my cities I get a message that Zulu developed Medicine! I have never seen this before. The event is repeatable, as long as the spy manages to foil the espionage attempt.

That is very strange, and I have no idea what would cause it, though it is probably a bug of some sort.

It is nice that my allies have not turned into enemies yet, but I wonder how long that is going to last. Persians are immaterial. Spanish only matter because I have 4 cities in their homeland which hold 5 key wonders.

They will turn on you very shortly. If you are Supreme and it is after 1750, the AI starts to hate you (I think with the same vigor that the MGE AI does). I remember discovering this when I played a deity plus 3 game some years back. I was alternating between mighty and supreme, and it was very obvious that being supreme made everyone dislike me.

 

[Inkerman]

I have a save a couple of turns before 1750. There are now two small cities in the north, and I am about to start using my trade-based wealth. Like in the Professor's game our scientists have leapfrogged a few technologies: atomic theory is being worked on without knowing engineering. Clearly the game is not liable to end as soon as Ali's might.

Status at 1730

Population: 85 (8,770,000); Cities: 6; Trade routes: 4 main cities all have 3 routes; Government: Democracy
Gold: 6173; Cost per turn: 84; Total advances: 49; Mfg: 34; GNP (total income) 531;
Wonders: Marco Polo, Copernicus, Magellan, Newton, UN.
Units: 1 Settler, 2 Engineers, 2 Phalanx, 4 Musketeers, 1 Alpine, 2 Riflemen, 1 Galleon, 2 Ironclad, 3 Transport, 2 Dip, 6 Spies, 4 Vans.
T7L2S1. Discoveries every 7 turns. Strong and Excellent.

Romans: (6) Enthusiastic, Peace, 1773g. 59 techs, 21 cities.
Zulus: (5) Receptive, Peace, 2117g. 60 techs, 23 cities.
Vikings: (3) Icy, Peace, 963g. 56 techs, 11 cities.
Spanish: (2) Enthusiastic, Peace, 1837g. 54 techs, 5 cities.
Persians: (1) Enthusiastic, Allied, 2055g. 54 techs, 3 cities.
Carthage: (0) Enthusiastic, Peace, 296g. 35 techs, 2 cities.

 

[Inkerman]

And a save a few turns after 1750.
Three Roman cities taken and three small cities in the north.
Diplomacy gives me the chance to decline giving Automobile in exchange for the wheel.

Status at 1770

Population: 119 (10,720,000); Cities: 10; Government: Democracy
Gold: 1540; Cost per turn: 127; Total advances: 56; Mfg: 110; GNP (total income) 731;
Wonders: Marco Polo, Copernicus, Magellan, Newton, Liberty, Hoover, UN.
Units: 1 Settler, 2 Engineers, 2 Phalanx, 3 Musketeers, 6 Alpine, 4 Riflemen, 1 Galleon, 1 Ironclad, 1 Destroyer, 3 Transport, 2 Dip, 6 Spies, 4 Vans.
T8L2S0. Discoveries every 17 turns. Strong and Excellent.

Romans: (5) Uncooperative, Peace, 1633g. 61 techs, 19 cities.
Zulus: (6) Receptive, Peace, 2223g. 63 techs, 23 cities.
Vikings: (3) Enraged, War, 1245g. 58 techs, 11 cities.
Spanish: (2) Enthusiastic, Peace, 2032g. 55 techs, 5 cities.
Persians: (1) Enthusiastic, Allied, 2065g. 56 techs, 3 cities.
Carthage: (0) Worshipful, Peace, 387g. 37 techs, 2 cities.

 

[Peaster]

Always nice to see new gotm players!

I just started last night, and have played to 1ad. I completely forgot about the size 1 trick, which reminds me that I'm rusty. This gotm is certainly different ! I've been pretty lucky not to get squashed by any big AI or barbs, despite some risky play. My AI have warred mostly with each other, and were very ambitious, and built almost all the good WoWs. I did manage to build LH pretty early and have almost reached the Roman lands in 1AD. Quick Log:

4000BC Busan (1). The plan is mapm, trireme(s), LH, get off the islands. Then Monarchy. I'm
max'ing science in this game since RBing is not as urgent.
2900BC Seoul (2).
2600BC hut = nomads (very good, but can't use them to settle yet)
2250BC Monarchy. IIRC Busan has been working on LH, while Seoul has been building trireme 2,
and aiming for a WoW caravan as Trade arrives. NON Settler working a bit.
1650BC Trade --> Writing. Max Taxes now that I have OK techs.
1600BC (approx) Zulus get Pyr, Romans = HG and Col, while I'm halfway to LH.
1200BC; LH, and 1st flotilla leaves for the mysterious north. Busan survives barbs.
1000BC; land near Spanish, survive weak attacks, get a cease fire and settle. 925; Jedu (3).
825BC; AN (4). Spanish land near Busan, I give techs, make peace, and get a withdrawal.
650BC; Spain trades me Poly. AI build GL, STWA, Copes. Viks take Valencia (very near my Jedu)
575BC; Meet the Mighty Zulu; they trade me Nav and Chiv !!? Dip makes an embassy with Spain.
The Romans built Marco approx 1000BC. I am hoping to capture HG eventually, but it's
very far North. Can't expect to capture many WoWs very early.
525BC: First van = 180g, despite Nav. Viks want war, then cf, but mostly are turning hostile.
500BC: 1st Barracks, in a Zulu outpost. Plan to send troops towards the Roman WoWs from
there. Got hbr from Spain and set sci to zero until a worthy goal arises. I have about 5-6
cities.
150BC; Provoked Viks to "war", and then bribe Valencia for 188g, mainly a defensive move. But I
got 8 units with it, + Phil !
100BC; based on these new units, can get tribute from Spain, but am getting mostly worthless
techs. Get Vik "cf" , allows focus on the North.
25BC; meet Romans, they trade me Inv. My scientists get instant Mono (from saved up
beakers) and start on Gun.

Stats 1AD: 9 cities, monarchy, 228g (mostly from van 3 just in), peace with Spain and Zulu, cf with Viks, contact with Romans. 18 <strange> adv's. 36 misc units, with about 5 knights.

Plan; I am trying to build up (ICS etc) in the Zulu lands, where there is some space. But I'll need HG very soon, so the urgent goal is to reach Pompeii with about 4 knights, capture it, and hold it. I have been building vans for Magellan (or maybe Leo or Mike's, with the new techs), but feel Pompeii should be cheaper, so most RB will go into that idea.

If I can get HG, I expect a much easier game. Probably ICS to about 20-30 cities, colonize the far North a bit vs restarts, and start the EC phase. Once Supreme, build or capture WoWs as needed.

Not sure if Big Trade will play a role. I usually depend on it with big maps, restarts on. But I have the Nav penalty already, no Colossus, and no real Hides production. No promising commodities at all really. I'm guessing tribute will provide a better return than trade in this game.

 

[Peaster]

Have played non-stop to 1000AD.

1AD-300AD: Followed plan above [row, row, row your boat] and captured HG from northern Romans, allowing ICS. Also MPE from Romans, to little effect (had 2 embassies already). Built Mag's approx 300AD, as the Viks beat me to Leo's.

500AD: Mon, 22 cities, 26 advs incl Lead'p from Zulus, 5 Settlers, 7 boats, 7 crux-types, 4vans.

In this period, I am ignoring the Greeks and Persians, steadily reducing the Romans and playing EC games with Viks, Spain and Zulus ... trying to beat them down a bit, increase outposts, and taking large payments for cease fires. Am very dependent on this unsteady source of gold, and on keeping up in science via tech-by-conquest. Corruption is high, so am not getting much from taxes or Mongol scientists. I didn't want to try Repu/Demo before Mike's/Magn, and never saw much hope in van trade... but there must be a better way to play this. Willl check players' logs about this soon.

740AD: Capture Leo's from Viks. Also univ, a prereq for many needed techs. Then made peace.

700 to 1000AD or more: heavy fighting vs Zulu's (Demo with 14 large cities), mostly dragoons vs musketeers. Many losses on both sides.

840ADish: build Mike's, then capture Oracle and Colossus.
940-980AD: Romans and Spain go down, freeing up Mongol troops. Both respawn.
980AD: Zulu's get conscription, it goes to me with a conquest, to Viks via GL. Uggh.

1000AD: monarchy, approx 55 cities, 40 advs, war with Zulus (still 10 large cities).

Somehow, this game is getting harder rather than easier! The Viks and Zulus have always been slightly ahead of me in techs, making EC pretty tough. I am not optimistic about Dragoons attacking Riiflemen fortified on rivers, but see little choice. I guess there's always hope the AI won't defend well, or that ICS growth will tell in the end.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Peaster, as usual you are way ahead of the rest of us in terms of city count. I built my cities 2, 3, and 4 a few turns ahead of your respective ones. But by -500 you were ahead of me in city count and by +500 (and then again at +1000) you have twice as many cities as I did! This is amazing on this map. What was your footprint at -500, +1, +500, and +1000?

Your tech advance has lagged behind mine so far, but with such a large city count, that would not be hard to overcome.

It is hard to tell much more from your not-so-detailed-logs. What wonders did you possess at +1000?

 

[Peaster]

Peaster, as usual you are way ahead of the rest of us in terms of city count. I built my cities 2, 3, and 4 a few turns ahead of your respective ones. But by -500 you were ahead of me in city count and by +500 (and then again at +1000) you have twice as many cities as I did! This is amazing on this map. What was your footprint at -500, +1, +500, and +1000?

I am a great believer in growth; it is always my highest priority from the start.

Footprint ? This means how far I have gotten into the map ? the summaries below are mainly from memory, plus some sketchy notes. I can look into my saves, but they are on another PC.

-500 The first 2, plus 2 fragile cities in the Spanish group, near an aggressive Viking outpost. My notes about cities 5 and 6 are missing, but I'm pretty sure they were built approx 500BC in Zulu-land; this region had the most free space. City 7 was definitely built there in 300BC.

1AD; I'd bribed away the annoying Vik city in Spain, built 1 more city in Zulu, and had 2 flotillas (settlers and knights) headed for northern Roman lands.

500AD; 22 cities. IIRC my 300AD expedition to Pompeii was overkill, including about 5-6 knights, some from the flotilla, and others built from new Mongol outposts in Romia. I was able to take out another 5 or 6 Roman cities fairly quickly with those units. I eventually built about 7 cities among the Zulu, probably most were by 500AD. I built two outposts in Viking lands, but lost them about this time. I paid no attention to Greece or Persia, since they had no spare land. I didn't see a strong reason to go into the far far north until later.

1000AD: Now 55 cities. Almost half were ICS'd where the Romans once ruled. I have about 7 cities in ex-Spain and about 4 in the far north (preparing for restarts). I might have 10-12 in Zulu land now, including recent captures.

Your tech advance has lagged behind mine so far, but with such a large city count, that would not be hard to overcome.

Well, that's always been my theory (or DaveV's actually). But in this game, my 55 cities are not earning many arrows because of high corruption. Not sure how to fix that. Since I can't really choose a "tech path", I can't plan properly for Repu or Demo, and can't seem to get much from trade either. I am thinking of soft Fundy, if I can get SoL together soon. An AI just handed me RR, so a better option might be Darwin, for normal Fundy. Same AI just handed me Magn, so Demo might also make sense now.

It is hard to tell much more from your not-so-detailed-logs. What wonders did you possess at +1000?

I have ... HG + LH (both expired), MPE, Col, Ora, Leo, Mag, MC; about half were captured from AIs. Recently captured Pyr and STWA (just after 1000ad). The AI have left GL, Copes, KRC, which I don't really need.

My previous note was probably overly pessimistic. The Zulus were really tough - probably the toughest AI civ I've faced outside of scenarios. They had 14 large cities in Democracy, with Pyr and STWA, defended by musketeers (all vets of course) about half on rivers, with a lead in techs and gold. I have whatever war techs I could get from the AI, which is mainly Leadership, with not much more good techs in sight. In the last few turns, I managed to take down Zimbabwei's city walls (but it took 6 diplomats!!) and capture the size 12 monster in a massive dragoon sneak attack.

Since they are in Demo, no bribes, and the war is far from over. They still have 7 strong cities. They have discovered conscription, though I haven't faced any riflemen yet. I may have to replace dragoons with cannon; problem is they usually need fortress support from engineers, but Explosives [and other useful war tech] seems unlikely in the next 200 years or so. Maybe Settlers can do the job. This campaign is an ongoing puzzle... and then there's the Viks.

This has been very different and challenging. Nice design !!!

 

[Peaster]

Finally had a chance to read over the logs above, and saw many interesting ideas. Probably Ali's game is most similar to mine, but much more civilzed, less punk street-fighter. Ali built up a very solid rational civ, with an understandable preference for peace with the giants. I did not hesitate to invade the giants' homelands, never paid tribute, prefered to capture HG over building Mike's, and suffered through horrible corruption, with no absolutely control over my science. Maybe this is just a difference in the attitudes of landing players and conquest players. Can't say either is wrong. More log:

1140: Sneaked vs the Viking capital, and won it. I felt some pressure to "hurt them" since they had just gotten conscription, and I had no good weapons vs riflemen. But if I had looked ahead just a bit...

1160: DV --> Tactics (Cavalry was the needed weapon) + Fundy (badly needed vs corruption). Next would be Indu'n, but the Mongol scientists have been on a 5000-year holiday, and in fact, that tech will never come. Conquered the Greeks easily; they respawn up north, of course. Conquered the Aztecs, but yellow comes back, too. There were about 15-20 such incidents, and I will not report them all. I already had enough boats and fast units up north to hunt down most respawns in one turn.

1180: Fundy !! A breath of fresh air. No more problems with cash.

1200: Yellow down. Sea Barbs raze one of my cities in Spain. I often leave backwater cities undefended, but this one contained a rifleman and cavalry. Also, I was circling these isles with a spare ironclad, but the barbs slipped thru. Happens.

1240: Zulus finally down, after 1000 years of war. I was facing a few fortified riflemen by the end, and tried two attacking methods; a) brute force with Cavalry, and b) cannon firing from forts built by pre-charged Settlers. Method a) is faster, but the losses are more costly. I guess I prefer b), but it only works if there is already a road to the target city (or if you have Explosives and Engineers instead).

1280: Viks down, respawn.

1320: All colors down, except Blue, and I can [probably] finish them in 1340AD, unless I include a Demo-Growth phase for points. I have roughly 75 cities, sketchy ones, as I've had no spare cash for improvements until approx 1200AD. End of Log....


Ali - about your teleported unit - this happens to me when some [other] AI makes me withdraw troops. For example, when I agree to a Viking demand to withdraw, I find that my units in Spain also withdraw. Makes no sense and must be a bug. Could that be what happened to you?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

1320: All colors down, except Blue, and I can [probably] finish them in 1340AD, unless I include a Demo-Growth phase for points. I have roughly 75 cities, sketchy ones, as I've had no spare cash for improvements until approx 1200AD. End of Log....

Amazing. I would not have thought a pre-1500 finish possible.

Ali - about your teleported unit - this happens to me when some [other] AI makes me withdraw troops. For example, when I agree to a Viking demand to withdraw, I find that my units in Spain also withdraw. Makes no sense and must be a bug. Could that be what happened to you?

I cannot recall all the details at this point, but at the time I was allied with 3 rivals (Romans, Persians, and Spanish) and had little contact with 2-city Greeks and 1-city Vikings. Thus your proposed scenario is somewhat unlikely. I will try to remember to check this when I next get a chance to play.

I am two turns away from landing and the next chance I get to play I should be able to finish.

 

[Peaster]

Amazing. I would not have thought a pre-1500 finish possible.

Thanks! I am still sorting this out in my mind ... I was expecting to finish around 1000AD as in "The Gauntlet". Geographically, this gotm should have gone faster, because of all the water. But
a) We did not have much land at the start, and
b) the AI were very advanced, which made conquest much more difficult.
c) Diety + Restarts ON adds a few years.

So, I guess I am happy with this date.

 

[scozzy0]

I've "updated" my MGE to v2.4.2 now, so I'll be hitting this map hard tonight. I do have a couple of q's though.

1. what is the 1-city trick? what are the benefits and how is it done?

2. what is this EC method that Peaster is referring too?

Look forward to getting into it and hopefully not disgracing myself too much haha

 

[Prof. Garfield]

1. what is the 1-city trick? what are the benefits and how is it done?

If you build a settler in a size 1 city, and it is your only city, the settler will be produced without disbanding the city, so you get your settler without losing a population point in your city. Having an extra "citizen" early in the game can be a pretty good advantage. You have to be able to amass 40 shields without acquiring 20 food in your city, so you have to work something like forest, not whale or grassland.

2. what is this EC method that Peaster is referring too?

He simply means "early conquest." He played the game to finish by conquest as quickly as possible.