GOTM 140 Spoiler

[Inkerman]

Expansion during this interval was pretty slow. 11 new cities were founded, 1 advanced tribe was discovered and a Sioux city was subverted.
Trade was significant, but not great. 50 deliveries were made for a total of 12643. The highest fee was 438 (Silk to Cardiff in +840).
.......
Looks like my game is fairly comparable to Inkerman.

Yes, similar numbers.
10 new cities. 49 deliveries. Total value was only 7111g in my case though, so that's one more area I can do better.
If I go through the cities in AD500 one by one and add up routes I get 27D8F.
In AD1000 it is 38D23F.
I could perhaps look for more foreign and less domestic trade (although much of that is inter-continental.)
I could take more care in deciding which vans are used for trade and which are used for wonders.
Or perhaps some of those lower value vans should really have been settlers looking to found more new cities?

 

[Inkerman]

This post was originally a couple of paragraphs, but these are not required now earlier posts have been updated.

(It related to the table posted by Ali: zenon's likely good progress, my trade, and haleewud's form of government.)

 

[zenon]

These 25 turns took a long time to play, but thanks to early growth and excellent trade opportunities the result is better than expected. After corporation I could hold 2 techs a turn.

AD
20 Economics, SSC Sewer System
40 gold to Cardiff 480g
60 Chemistry, SSC University, beads Isthmus SSC 182g, hides to Cardiff 368g, Indians: trade for Warrior Code
80 Copernicus, Iron Working, gold to Cardiff 528g
100 Bridge Building, silk to Delhi 92g, hides to Cardiff 188g, copper to Cardiff 160g, Indians: gift all techs
120 Navigation, Celts develop Chivalry, finally I can skip two techs, hides to Cardiff 80g
140 Physics, beads to Cardiff 172g, hides 220g
160 INC, Invention, SSC size 20, science needed 851, produced 574 at 70%, 4 more scientists can be added to the SSC, Democracy is planned for 220 (oedo rev.) and should allow 1 tech/turn in 240, the alternative: Democracy in 300AD, keeping the ship chain and using the hides repeater in the SSC until Leonardos is built, I think I will try the alternative
180 beads to Cardiff 208g
200 Magnetism, beads to Cardiff 192g
220 Steam Engine, wine to Cardiff 585g, one more turn now at 40 lux
240 SSC size 24, size 25 would have been possible, but with the early growth the jungle tile is still a wildlife reserve, Isthmus size 10, celebration ends, Gun Powder, Zohak (17th), a colony, science SSC 564, total 760 at 80%, hides SSC Isthmus 276g

260 Leonardos, Metallurgy, Celts: trade for Chivalry, hides to Cardiff 240g
280 Explosives,
300 Democracy (oedo rev.), science prod. 1034 at 100%, needed 1056, Indian warrior bribed near Tarsus 35g, beads to Cardiff 204g
320 Railroad
340 Darwins, Industrialization, Electricity, Istakhr (18th), a colony on continent 14, road Isthmus to Cardiff finished, Cardiff needs more roads! Science 1059, needed 1081
360 Corporation, Sidon library, Sidon gold to Cardiff 378g, beads to Tenochtitlan 672g, a nice +12 trade route replaces Isthmus at the SSC, Aztech Harbour (19th) founded, my new tradegate to Tenochtitlan at 73,57, 7 Freights invade Aztech lands, dye to Teotihuacan 264g, science 1153, needed 1104
380 Steel, Refining, more libraries built, Zohak captured by Barbarians , wine to Cardiff 350g, hides to Tenochtitlan 672g, seems to be a hides demander , little Cardiff founded (19th again), copper to Tenochtitlan 300g, science 1207, needed 1150
400 Leadership, Combustion, dye to Tlatelolco 204g, wine to Cardiff 265g, hides Arbela to Tenochtitlan 292g, hides SSC Tenochtitlan 672g
420 Automobile, SSC superhighways, more libraries, Electronics, 2 hides to Tenochtitlan 2x864g, science 1621
440 Conscription, Tactics, Susa, Isthmus, Dariush Kabir superhighways, hides production in the SSC has ended, but there are still 3 hides freights left, wine SSC to Cardiff 970g, wine Dariush to Cardiff 517g
460 Nuclear Theory, Machine Tools, Sardis, Samaria, Hamadan superhighways, Herat (20th), salt to Tlatelolco 342g, hides to Tenochtitlan 1044g, cloth to Tenochtitlan 198g, science 1738, needed 1566
480 Mass Production, Miniaturization, Bactra, Sidon superhighways, 3 hides to Teotihuacan 1080g, 444g, 504g, science 1771, Indians: gift techs, needed 1440
500 Nuclear Fission, Nuclear Power, -> Computers is next, Arbela, Tyre superhighways, 2 hides to Teotihuacan 348g, 1074g, beads to Cardiff 462g, science 1818 (SSC 1098)

stats:
Democracy
20 cities, 61 techs
units: 6 Engineers, 4 Musketmen, 1 Dragoon, 2 Dips, 40 Freights, 8 Transports
wonders: MPE, HG, Michelangelos, Colossus, Shakespeares, Copernicus, INC, Leonardos, Darwins

 

[Major Advantage]

Of cause there are other situations like early growth or early trade, where the extra specials might be more useful.

But my point is: it dosn`t make a big difference during most of the game.

I think the last part of your log clearly shows the great value of an early decision on the SSC. By 1 AD I was 1 tech behind you, by 500 it was 17! Very Impressive!
By 1 AD my SSC was size 5, had Colossus but no trades and was suffering from heavy corruption (14/10). So there is more to consider than just the location: Corruption before Democracy (=distance from capital), how quickly will the SSC how big, how quickly can it be supported with wonder-vans and settlers/engineers for terrain improvement from other cities, "trade roads" (how can you get your freights to their destination) before railroad...

 

[Major Advantage]

I just finished and submitted my game. It must have been one of the most peaceful games I ever played. According to the F2-statistics, I had lost 1 dip, 1 engineer and 1 dragoon in battle. And I can't remember having attacked anything but barbs. I also didn't bribe any AI-cities after launch, the gold was required for population growth and wonder building (got 25 in the end, Celts had LH and Darwin, no time/ressources for Manhattan).

Here are my next 500 years, as usually slightly omitting deliveries and founding cities unless there was something special:

520 Corp.->Electr.; deliveries 335, 465
540 Electr. -> Refin.; sleeping transport barely survives barb fregate attack
560 Refin.->Conscr.
580 Ouch, barely missed conscription... Science to 100%, some elvisses, some temples, some libraries
600 Conscr.->Combustion->Steel; still nobody working on Feudalism...
620 Steel->Automobile
640 Atuo->Genetic Eng.
660 Gen.-> Mass Prod.;gold(d) Eureka>Cardiff 812g
680 Mass Prod.->Refriger.->Electronics (@80% science); Cure for Cancer built
700 Electr.->Atom. Theory
720 Atom T.->Warrior code; get WC from Carths
740 Feudalism->Theology; now warrior production is upgraded in two helper cities near Eureka
760 Theo->Chivalry; wine(d) from Eureka 1080g
780 Chiv.->Leader; Bach Cathedral built
800 Leader->Tactics
820 Tact.->Nucl. Fiss
840 NF->Machine Tools; beaker-box filled, could get 2 techs with 70% science, then rb SETI(or just science lab in Eureka), hunt techs with some help from Mr. Darwin, aim for pre-1000 landing...
860 Mach. Tools->Mini (sticking with PD instead of EL)
880 Mini ->Computers; Adam Smith built (saving ~50g each turn atm)
900 Comp.->Nucl. Power
920 N Power -> Flight; SETI built (might not be essential though), Eureka @ size30, 155 arrows, 1552 beakers @ 100% science
(India gets Communism and cancels Marco Polo)
940 Flight -> Laser
960 Laser->Radio
980 Radio->Adv. Flight->Rocket
1000 Rocket -> Space

Stats at +1000:
pop.: 36.72M; cities: 41; techs: 73; gov: Dem, gold: 940, cost per turn: 135
units: 26 engineer, 6 dip, 12 fighting units, 27 van, 9 boat
wonders: Marco's, HG, Pyramids, Colossus, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton, Magellan, Bach, Cure for Cancer, Adam Smith, SETI

AI: rather poor, LH, allied with Carths, peace with all

plan: build spaceship and some more wonders

 

[zenon]

Thank you for the comment, Major. I finished last night. Might actually be my earliest landing on a medium random map,ever. I am quite content, I didn´t forget how to play civ 2. I had the help of some old logs and well - there was never another game I played as much as civ2 in its time.

I agree with all your points on the SSC choice. I want to add one more: my SSC site was a hides repeater.

But there is also a difference in the game play. I focused on early landing only and stopped adding cities when I had 16. You may well have the better overall score.

 

[haleewud]

Also I think haleewud's government is still republic; I think there's a glitch in the stats in his log such as we're all at risk of.
My trade figure is 27D8F.

Yes, sorry about that. Since Democracy wasn't discovered until +780, I guess it was impossible for me to have that as my government in +500.

I will update that post.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have updated the summary table (response 40) with zenon results and haleewud's gov.

 

[That Scott Dude]

Even the most basic version of civ2 has this. Click on the tile. Go to the menus and change from moving units to viewing them. You will see "(x,y) z".

Where will I see this? In the status window to the right? All it ever says is "(Grassland)" or "(Ocean)" or what have you. I have tried right-clicking the tiles, left-clicking the tiles, double-right-clicking, double-left-clicking, switching from move mode to view mode, from view mode to move mode, I've changed various game options... I'm out of ideas.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Scott, you should see the numbers when in view mode. As you move the selected tile around with the arrows (not clicking) the numbers change.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

In the memorable and eventful year of +860 the Persian forces captured Carthage with fewer casualties than expected despite its city walls. With their capital gone, the fate of the mighty Carthaginian empire is sealed. The remaining cities will be captured by the remnants of my army or bribed by my diplomats soon.

Also in this year, Democracy was discovered and established. With Bach built the same year, the stage is set for a new era of prosperity and growth. The expansion of the Persian empire shall continue in the Carthaginian lands and in the new islands discovered recently up north. But more importantly with the upcoming celebrations, that will start immediately, the many small cities of Persia shall rapidly grow in size.

 

[That Scott Dude]

Scott, you should see the numbers when in view mode. As you move the selected tile around with the arrows (not clicking) the numbers change.

Nope. No numbers. Nice try, though, I hadn't thought to try that.

Could it be because I don't have the CD-ROM in the computer? That affects things. For instance, I can't "Consult High Council." (Not that I would.)

 

[Inkerman]

Hi Scott,

Not CD related. Very hard to understand this problem - can it be the only aberration?
Perhaps try re-installing?

If after you load the original save file you press "v" does that do it?

After I do this the status window shows:

10,000 people
4000 BC
0 Gold 4.0.6

Viewing Pieces
Loc: (34,28) 10
(Grassland, River)
NONE
No orders
Settlers

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+0520 Saari and AmirKola founded. Wine to Celts for 220. Carthaginian elephant killed.
+0560 Engineering -> Medicine. Silk to Delhi for 240. A vet elephant lost and 2 defenders of Panormus killed. The city captured for 31g and barracks.
+0580 Ramsar founded.
+0600 Carthaginians kill a legion. Medicine -> Sanitation. 2 Carthaginian units killed and a crusader lost.
+0620 Carthaginians kill another legion. Carthaginian legion killed. Shahi founded.
+0640 Nomad from polar hut. Kharg founded.
+0660 Gems to Bombay for 144. Ahvaz, Shiraz, and Lahijan founded. Nomad from polar hut.
+0680 Sanitation -> Invention. Deliveries for 136, 168.
+0700 Carthaginian elephant dies in attack on my knight. Domestic wine for 120.
+0720 Carthaginian lose another elephant dies in attack on the same knight. Invention -> Republic. Sanitation -> Aztec -> Republic, maps. Beads to Cardiff for 112. Single defender of Cartenna killed and the city taken for 45g.
+0740 -> Banking. Domestic deliveries for 2x60.
+0760 Carthaginian legion killed.
+0780 Banking -> Democracy. Leo built. Domestic trade for 100, 37. 50g from hut. Carthaginian elephant bribed for 156g. T3L3S4
+0800 Ghulaman founded. Silk to Celts for 126.
+0820 Carthaginian legion killed.
+0840 Carthaginian legion killed.
+0860 Carthaginians kill a knight. Aztecs build Great Library. Bach built. Democracy -> Gunpowder. Losing 2 Crusaders, 2 defenders of Carthage are killed and the city taken for Lighthouse and78g. 2 defenders of Caralis killed. Malaca bribed for 350g. Got 63g and 2 units. Democracy established. T2L2S6. Deliveries for 123, 152, 104.
+0880 Senate hands peace to Carthaginians. Deliveries for 128. Fuman founded. Legion from polar hut. T3L3S4
+0900 Gunpowder -> Leadership. Deliveries for 65, 110, 175, 72. Chalus founded. 25g from hut. Caralis subverted for 2x195g.
+0920 Barbarian legion dies in attack on Dezful; leader captured for 100g. Deliveries for 84.
+0940 Leadership -> University. Deliveries for 144, 57, 125.
+0960 University -> Chemistry. Philosophy -> Aztec -> Navigation.
+0980 Deliveries for 130, 140, 464.
+1000 Chemistry -> Explosives. Kerman founded. Deliveries for 150, 56, 66.

Status at +1000
Population: 11.2M; Cities: 54; Techs: 40; Government: Democracy
Gold: 39; Cost: 34; Trade routes: 35D14F;
Ancient Wonders: Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Lighthouse
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Copernicus, Michelangelo
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach
Units: 25 settlers (3 None), 36 Musketeers, 7 Dragoons, 9 Caravel, 3 Diplomats, 19 vans, 2 explorers
Goals: Finishing off Carthaginians; expansion in Carthaginian lands, southern tiny islands, and northern islands; Magellan and Explosives (both next turn); Newton.
Footprint: 34 cities in Persia; 7 on 16; 5 on island 22; 3 on 4; 1 on islands 1, 2, 5, 8, and 15;
Celt: 7 cities, 30 techs ; War with Indians
Aztec: 5 cities, 25 techs ; Pyramids, Great Library
Carthaginian: 3 cities, 17 techs ;
Indian: 2 cities, 33 techs ; War with Celts

 

[That Scott Dude]

Hi Scott,

Not CD related. Very hard to understand this problem - can it be the only aberration?
Perhaps try re-installing?

When I press 'v' I have the all the information you stated, but below where it says "Viewing Pieces" I have:
(Grassland, River)
Below that there is an icon of a settler and to the right it lists:
NONE
No Orders
Settlers

There is another odd thing: When I select it to show the map grid, the entire grid is black. It isn't white around the cities like I have seen in some pics on this website. And I don't think re-installing will help because I play the game on two different computers, a desktop and a laptop, and it's the same on both. But I'll give that a shot.

 

[Inkerman]

Hi Scott,

Documentation suggests the white display for city radiius came in with CivII 1.07.

If you have Civ II classic at an earlier version than 2.42 you should be able to find the patch file civ242.zip on the net.

Inkerman

 

[Ali Ardavan]

            Major    haleewud    Ali      zenon    Inkerman  
cities        41        28        54                  34
techs         73        47        40        L         49
govt          Dem      Dem       Dem        A         Dem
gold         940      2357        39        N        917 
cost/turn    135Adam    51        34        D         46Adam
trade       ?D?F     13D35F    35D14F       E        ?D?F
settlers      26        19        25        D         22
army          12        16        43                  28
boats          9        11         9                   9
dips           6         4         3                  10
vans          27        13        19                  31
Wonders       13        11         8                  11

Among the posters, and almost certainly overall, Zenon got the green star. Among the remaining posters, Major is obviously leading by a long shot. Inkerman is second and haleewud a close third. I am last despite leading in terms of cities and footprint. This is very much like where we were at +500.

Now that I have switched to democracy my larger number of cities allow me to grow somewhat faster. It is too late to catch Major who will be launching soon.

 

[Major Advantage]

Now that I have switched to democracy my larger number of cities allow me to grow somewhat faster. It is too late to catch Major who will be launching soon.

Yep. I don't think you will catch up in time, but you might in score. From +1000 on I was mostly focused on spaceship-building that I wanted to do right at least once! So not another again-2-components-short-ah-what-the-heck-launch, but careful planning and calculating. I defined the spaceship-gap (how much gold I was short of for full spaceship including my stockpiled vans), watched it going lower and lower (that took more than a few turns) and then built my full spaceship in just 2 turns. After launch I grew my score by population growth and wonders but no conquest at all. So in the end I had only 25 wonders.

 

[That Scott Dude]

Hi Scott,

Documentation suggests the white display for city radiius came in with CivII 1.07.

If you have Civ II classic at an earlier version than 2.42 you should be able to find the patch file civ242.zip on the net.

Inkerman

Voila! That fixed it! White grids around the city radius and everything! I just had an old version. That's what I get for waiting in line at 6 am to buy the game the day it's released.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+1010 Celts build Great Wall. Magellan built. Explosives -> Theory of Gravity. Deliveries for 228, 175. Fasaa founded. 100g from hut.
+1020 Deliveries for 348.
+1030 Theory of Gravity -> Metallurgy. Deliveries for 115, 396, 160. Finally got Carthaginians to declare war; 3 units killed. 200g from hut.
+1040 Carthaginian elephant killed in attack on my dragoons; 2 more units killed. Metallurgy -> Physics. Deliveries for 120, 105, 100, 82. None musketeer from hut.
+1050 Physics -> Conscription. Deliveries for 300, 180. One more defender killed and Utica captured for 57g. Senate hands peace to Carthaginians. LeptisMagna, Sirjan, and Toronto founded.
+1060 Conscription -> Magnetism. 2 Carthaginian units killed after I provoke them into declaring war. Deliveries for 60, 198. Zabol founded. Tech bombed Indians.
+1070 Magnetism -> Tactics. Shakespeare built. Deliveries for 132, 170. Gades captured. Carthaginians are down to 1 city which is not in their homeland. T2L3S5
+1080 Tactics -> Electricity. Deliveries for 210, 156. Abadan and Tonb founded.
+1090 Electricity -> Steam Engine. Barbarians land near defenseless Gades and are killed by my cavalry. Deliveries for 270, 300, 167, 42. Dakyanus, Larijan, and Gheshm founded. Last Carthaginian city found offshore. Senate hands them cease fire. 50g from hut.
+1100 Steam Engine -> Refrigeration.
+1110 Refrigeration -> Economics.
+1120 Economics -> Amphibious Warfare. Deliveries for 120. Bam founded.
+1130 Amphibious Warfare -> Railroad. Deliveries for 258, 244, 112, 112. T7L3S0
+1140 Deliveries for 360, 228. Advanced tribe founds Sydney on island 20. Merv founded. T2L2S6
+1150 Railroad -> Industrialization -> Atomic Theory. Railroad -> Aztec -> Atomic Theory. T3L2S5
+1160 -> Corporation -> Steel. Newton built. Deliveries for 376, 70, 108, 345, 228, 240
+1170 Steel -> Genetic Engineering -> Refining. Montreal founded. Deliveries for 97, 192, 180.
+1180 Refining -> Combustion. Deliveries for 135, 120. T4L2S4
+1190 Combustion -> Automobile. Deliveries for 180.
+1200 Automobile -> Electronics. Deliveries for 150, 165, 135.
+1210 Electronics -> Machine Tools. Barbarian Frigate bribed for 102g. Deliveries for 420, 146, 130, 550. T3L2S5
+1220 Machine Tools -> Mass Production -> Mini. Barbarian dragoons kill 3 units in Sardis including their former frigate rendering the city defenseless. Deliveries for 156, 218. Abskun and Girba founded.
+1230 Barbarians take Sardis and lose a unit in attack on Hamadan. Mini -> Computers. Rusicade and Sidon relocated. Sardis bribed back for 234. Got a dragoon and lost 3 structures and 5 citizens in the process. Deliveries for 396, 168, 36, 400. Ottawa founded. T2L3S5
+1240 Computers -> Recycling -> Nuclear Fission. First pollution appears. Deliveries for 74, 102, 348, 340.
+1250 Transport survives barbarian frigate and turns vet. Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power. Deliveries for 135, 116, 118. T3L3S4

Status at +1250
Population: 31.7M; Cities: 73; Techs: 68; Government: Democracy
Gold: 2; Cost: 256; Trade routes: 95D40F;
Ancient Wonders: Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Lighthouse
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Copernicus, Michelangelo, Magellan, Shakespeare
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Newton
Modern Wonders: Cure
Units: 27 Engineers (3 None), 34 Riflemen, 1 Dragoon, 5 Cavalry, 9 Transport, 2 Diplomats, 20 vans, 1 explorer
Goals: SETI, Hoover.
Footprint: 40 cities in Persia; 8 on 16; 5 on island 22; 4 on 4; 3 on 1, 2, 17; 1 on islands 5, 8, 9, 15, 20, 23, 24;
Celt: 7 cities, 33 techs ; Great Wall
Aztec: 5 cities, 46 techs ; Pyramids, Great Library
Carthaginian: 1 cities, 17 techs ;
Indian: 2 cities, 65 techs ;