GOTM 142 Russia - 1st Spoiler - End of Ancient Times

[Più Freddo]

This thread is for your reports of events and progress in GOTM 142 Russia up to the date where you are able to research a Medieval tech.

Do not read or post in this thread until you meet this condition. You may reveal Medieval bonus techs from the end of the last Ancient turn and discuss your plans for continuing the game.

Please do not post information here relating to later dates, and please only post maps of your home area and no minimaps.

 

[Più Freddo]

Scouts

I founded Moscow in place and was pleased to find a Bonus Grassland
tile within the city limits. This way the size of the Settler Factory
was reduced by one. I sent the Scout west to the Mountains and then
north, where it pretty soon met Spain. Moscow built a second Scout,
which then went in the other direction. Judging from the rather meager
harvest of these Scouts, just two Technologies which were both known
by the AI tribes, it would seem a mistake to build a second Scout
instead of e.g. a Warrior. But then I did get a Warrior from a hut and
made many Contacts. One Scout was eventually lost to Barbarians and
the other I could disband for two Shields.

3800 BC Meet Spain
3750 BC Pop Hut Technology
3550 BC Meet England
3450 BC Pop Hut Technology
3000 BC Pop Hut Warrior
2800 BC Meet Zululand
2670 BC Meet America
2630 BC Meet France
2390 BC Meet China​

Research

I decided to start the game without research in the hope of getting
something useful from early Goody Huts. Instead, I met Spain, who knew
Alphabet. So I bought Alphabet for Bronze Working, 3 gpt and 12 gold
and went for Writing on minimum. This might have been a mistake, as my
little empire got pretty strong research-wise before the 40 turns were
up. I didn't really count on such a plethora of commerce-rich tiles. I
may have lost a couple of turns there, but collected much gold with
which I hope to be able to take back some of them by rushing
Libraries.

4000 BC Discover Pottery
4000 BC Discover Bronze Working
3800 BC Learn Alphabet
3750 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
3450 BC Learn Warrior Code
2630 BC Learn Masonry​

Early Development

The initial build order in Moscow was: Palace, Scout, Wealth (one
turn), Granary, Settler (four turns with Game forest cut), Worker
(three turns), Settler (six turns), Warrior (two turns) and then
four-turn Settlers. I had to irrigate a Plains tile without roading in
order to keep the time table for the Factory.

4000 BC Found Moscow
2800 BC Found St. Petersburg
2470 BC Found Kiev
2190 BC Found Minsk
2110 BC Found Smolensk​

Rapid Expansion

The first, early, Settler of course went to the north-east to the
Wheat-on-Flood-Plains tile. St. Petersburg would be a Worker Factory,
first without and later with a Granary. I placed the first ring three
tiles from the capital and a second ring at six tiles. I also placed
cities at between three and five tiles distance from the planned
Forbidden Palace city east of the river.

Although the land was pretty crowded and AI tribes dropped cities
close to our core, Barbarians were pretty annoying. However, I could
purchase only a few Slaves and then lost a roading Worker-Slave pair
to a surprise attack from a Barbarian Horseman sneaking around in
America. Philadelphia was kindly fitted into my settling plan, but New
York was built one tile off and will have to be abandoned after it has
been captured. Otherwise the AI didn't disturb my circles.

1910 BC Found Odessa
1870 BC Connect Spices
1750 BC Found Sevastopol
1650 BC Found Tblisi
1500 BC Found Yakutsk
1500 BC Found Sverdlovsk
1400 BC Found Vladivostok
1275 BC Found Novgorod
1200 BC Found Krasnoyarsk
1125 BC Found Riga
1000 BC Connect Gems
_950 BC Found Rostov
_800 BC Found Astrakhan​

I did connect Ivory as well, but seem to have forgotten to take a
note.

Towards the Middle Ages

I discovered Writing in 1990 BC and went into fast-research mode. I
decided to go for Literature before The Republic, since many core
cities produced much Commerce and I had enough gold to rush
Libraries. In the end, The Republic would have come in just when
Moscow was at maximum size, so I delayed it one turn in order to let
the (last) Settler out. I got five turns of Anarchy in the inter-turn
and decided to be satisfied with that.

1990 BC Discover Writing
1990 BC Learn The Wheel
1990 BC Learn Iron Working
1650 BC Discover Literature
1625 BC Learn Horseback Riding
1525 BC Discover Philosophy
1375 BC Discover Code of Laws
1300 BC Learn Map Making
1075 BC Discover The Republic
1050 BC Learn Mathematics
_875 BC Discover Currency
_850 BC Learn Polytheism
_775 BC Discover Construction
_775 BC Enter Middle Ages
_775 BC Discover Engineering​

The AI graciously provided a few Technologies: Mathematics and
Polytheism. I gifted all tribes all my knowledge in the hope that they
progress on the lower branch (Feudalism, Invention) while I go for
Astronomy.

Research rate for Monotheism is indicated to be six turns. My core
needs a lot of development and growth, but has a wonderful
potential. Spain is building The Pyramids in Madrid and The Colossus
close to my core, so I will leave them in peace while I go for America
and England. The Forbidden Palace is just a few turns away. I have a
few veteran Horsemen and have disbanded all Warriors.

 

[serttech2003]

I believe I hit the Middle Ages around 300 BC. (Is there a utility that will pull the research complete dates out of a save?) The info below is from the 190 BC save.

I started scout granary-settler right away and used Moscow as a 4-turn settler pump until I got Odessa working as a settler/worker factory later in the ancient age. I only netted 2 techs from huts.

The Americans settled right in close (might have popped a city from a hut) almost dead smack in my first ring. I used scouts to look for FB locations and liked one on the French/American border. (cows, hills, mountains, grasslands. American were the quick starters. They seemed to be everywhere. Spanish stayed to the Northern coast and began moving into the great jungle to the east. French were caught below the Americans. I had quick contact with all the civs due to scouts (mine and theirs).

My early conquest was:
Americans -to clear my core and to set up Sverdlovsk as FP. Units were piling up outside Spanish cities. I wanted the land to the north as science farm territory.


All dates BC
4000 Moscow
2470 St. Pete
2350 Kiev--later missed out on Colossus by 4 turns!!!!
2070 Minsk
1830 Smolensk
1575 Odessa
1325 Sevastopol
1175 Tblisi
690 Capture Atlanta
650 Sverdlovsk
590 Yakutsk
510 Capture Washington DC
490 Vladivostok

I tried to end my expansion stage earlier than I like and moved into combat operations even quicker than I wanted. I still struggle with how to handle FP. Build it brick by brick or leader fish in my first war to rush it. Mine was going brick by brick until the end of the American war when I got a GL.

 

[Più Freddo]

Is there a utility that will pull the research complete dates out of a save?

CivAssist II

 

[tR1cKy]

I moved the worker NW, then settled in place as expected and went for a 4-turner ASAP. The initial build order was scout -> granary -> settler. The first scout went E, reached the coast then proceeded N where it met Spain. The 2nd scout went W, then S, where it made contact with America and France. Later on, all the remaining AS were met. More than once the scouts met barbs, but they always managed to escape. In the early game they also found two huts; the first gave some gold, and the second produced a very useful worker.

After buying a half-researched Alphabet from Spain, i went for Writing, Code of Laws, Literature, Philosophy and Republic, all at max. Since i had already met all the AS and roughly figured out the world type, Map Making wasn't really a priority for me, so I left to the AS the burden of researching it. Actually, the AS were surprisingly helpful in research, more than what one could reasonably expect given their sorry state.

City placement was a bit off the mark, as RCP 3 was great for a coastal river city NW, but substandard for the planned worker factory eastward. At the end, i opted for a mixed placement: city 2, the worker factory, was placed Ex3, with the relevant tiles in close range and on a river. City 3 (coast) was placed NWx3. The overall ring wasn't that great, but its efficience will improve dramatically once the FP is completed in a 1-st ring city and the capital moved somewhere else.

After the 1st settler, Moscow trained a second settler, a warrior, two workers and a settler again. By that time the 4-turner was complete and apart from a pair of extra workers, it was settlers only up to Republic.

I also decided to build the Colossus on city 3, and given the current situation i'm guaranteed to complete it. Is it worth it? Time will tell. For now, spending 200 shields on a wonder slowed down my military buildup and delayed the the beginning of operations. But if i grab a leader early enough i can rush the Great Library somewhere and start my golden age in the early medievals instead of the late MA / early IA, when the military expansion is already over, and in this case the Colossus would have a huge payoff.

Republic was known in 1025 BC. I revolted immediately, got 7 turns of anarchy and rerolled 3 turns

The 1000 BC mark was met with the following stats:
- 1 city, 11 towns, 43 population units;
- army: 1 scout, 18 warriors, 18 workers and 4 slaves
- buindings: 2 granaries, 2 libraries, 1 barracks
- missing techs: Construction, Currency, Poly, Monarchy
- 499 quids in the royal coffers (the most part will be spent on warrior upgrades)

After Republic, the game suggested Construction so i went for Currency. By 875 BC, enough warriors had been upgraded and i was ready to unleash some Russian fury onto America Republic was sold for a song, then war begun. Meanwhile, the AS researched both Polytheism and Construction, so i was able to buy my way into the Middle Ages by 750 BC. My free pick was Monotheism, exactly the tech i didn't want to fish.

On a side note, i've not been fast enough with the initial expansion phase, and Spain managed to beat me to the ivory source on the NE coast, but i'm about to take control of that luxury anyway (and incense too) with the assimilation of America.

For the future, i'm still in doubt if researching Feudalism and Chivalry first or going directly for the upper branch and hoping for some AS to research the remaining 1-st tier techs plus Invention (and possibly Gunpowder) in a reasonable time. Military wise, America will have to go. Spain (with Madrid about to finish the Pyramids) will be second, followed by England. I'll need two leaders: one to build the Great Library and trigger the Golden Age and the other to move the capital. Every other wonder can be built brick by brick.

I'm going to leave France intact as their traits usually make them decent researchers up to the late Middle Ages. This leave one more AS to conquer, and i'm inclined to take over Zululand because China, despite a less favourable terrain, has better traits overall. Moreover, the conquest of Zululand will give me control of all the 8 luxuries.

Here are some stats:

Techs:

4000bc: Bronze Working, Pottery (prerequisites);
3350bc: Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial (trade, Spain); Masonry (trade, America);
2270bc: Wheel, Warrior Code (trade, Zulu);
2230bc: Writing (research);
1725bc: Code of Laws (research);
1700bc: Iron Working, Horse Riding, Mysticism (trade, America);
1500bc: Literature (research);
1400bc: Philosophy (research);
1300bc: Map Making (trade, Spain); Mathematics (trade, France);
1025bc: Republic (research);
_825bc: Polytheism (trade, China);
_775bc: Currency (research);
_750bc: Construction (trade, France); Monotheism (scientific bonus);


Cities till 1000 BC:

4000bc: Moscow
2800bc: St. Petersburg (spices)
2590bc: Kiev (gems)
2110bc: Minsk
1870bc: Smolensk

1750bc: Odessa
1650bc: Sevastopol
1575bc: Stalingrad (future FP city)
1325bc: Sverdlovsk
1175bc: Yakutsk;

1150bc: Vladivostok;
1050bc: Novgorod;


Meetings:

3450bc: Spain
3350bc: America
3300bc: France
2850bc: England
2310bc: Zululand
2270bc: China


A map of my empire in 1000 BC (one town in the far east isn't shown)

 

[templar_x]

i did move 1NW also, but decided for a RCP3. very creative idea to be more laid back in this regard this time. unfortunately i cannot find my notes any more... and what i remember is little.
Spain and America took spots, just like here, i wanted to have. i had an early small-scale war against America for the New York position. otherwise building up until now.
i think i revolted a bit earlier and reached MA a bit earlier but i have practically no army. i drew Feud which was ok because it was expensive. but i am not sure why tricky did not want to have Mono... as it is on the cheap university route! i would have liked it, as the only tech that i was relatively sure the AS could be directed at and bring any contribution in the MA was Feud... i even gifted everyone up and gave them Feud so one of them *might* get me Eng... while *i* would go for Mono myself. but maybe i am missing something...
the GA is a big issue. i considered a Col prebuild, but with no army i could not say i will conquer any other wonder easily. 2nd core is another issue. basically i do not need any of the AS anymore after the MA because they will be of no use research-wise. just so to get me the vote...

t_x

Edit: it already becomes obvious that time will become short for finishing this game. could we start early to think about a longer timeframe, given this is a science game?

Edit2: here´s the pic of my core

 

[Lord AJ]

I see that tricky says he rerolled to get a shorter anarchy period. Assuming by rerolled he means reloaded, I don't understand if that's allowed as the rules say we can't reload, right?

 

[Lord AJ]

I don't have my pc around at this time so I'll be writing from memory. I reached the MA somewhere around 700BC- 650BC and for Feudalism add my free Tech (I would've liked mono but feud is okay too) . I built my first ring at distance 4 from the palace as this ring seemed to exactly fit in all the nice city positions I had in mind. The second ring will be at distance six. I declared war on Spain quite early so now they're next to no contribution to the tech pace. I did that to get A few techs for peace which I did get (although only 1, I think) but now slower research is proving to be a problem. Also in my game France has built the pyramids so it'll take me some time to get them. At this point, somewhere around 400BC I think I have quite a few swordsman and a couple of med infs (I couldn't upgrade many swords as research took away lots of my cash) . I'm having a war with America and it's going quite well. Hope to get a leader soon to rush a wonder (GreatLib maybe, but I already have a tech lead so I don't think it'll help) . Perhaps I'll go for Leonardo or sun tzus art of war.

 

[templar_x]

Rerolling does not have anything to do with reloading. It means revolting with The big picture window and rolling again ibt.
T_x

 

[Lord AJ]

Okay. I'm completely confused. What exactly do we mean by rolling and how is it possible to get 2 periods of anarchy, one 7 turn long and the other 3 turns like tricky got ?
Or is it not about anarchy turns at all?

 

[Cotta]

Okay. I'm completely confused. What exactly do we mean by rolling and how is it possible to get 2 periods of anarchy, one 7 turn long and the other 3 turns like tricky got ?
Or is it not about anarchy turns at all?

It's a "bug" in PTW or Vanilla. It doesn't work in C3C, so maybe you'll never notice...but I don't know what to do for it.

 

[Arjav Jain]

Reached MA in 350 BC. Game is going a bit slow. Let's hope I finish this in time.

 

[Lord AJ]

It's a "bug" in PTW or Vanilla. It doesn't work in C3C, so maybe you'll never notice...but I don't know what to do for it.

Perhaps my question isn't clear. I want to know what this IT that you're talking about is?

 

[tR1cKy]

Perhaps my question isn't clear. I want to know what this IT that you're talking about is?

As you complete research on Republic (or any other government) you click on "what's the big screen" and you get to the research screen. From there, you hit F1 and you are into the domestic screen. You revolt with the button next to "Government" and take note of the anarchy turns.

Mind you, you're still in the interturn here.

As you close the screen, the turn ends but the game still ask you if you want to revolt, even if you just revolted. This is the bug in question.

Now, if you drew a bad roll with the anarchy turns, you can get a second chance by clicking "yes". The game lets you re-revolt and re-roll the number of anarchy turns. Of course, nothing prevents you from getting an even worse roll. It's a matter of luck.

Besides exploiting the bug, this trick is very useful because it lets you re-adjust the production of your cities without incurring in a turn of riots.

 

[Più Freddo]

Just one more clarification: the term "to roll" here refers to "rolling dice", which in turn refers to the use in the game programming of a pseudo-random number generator to make a (for the player) non-deterministic decision, just as if it had rolled dice. This design is for adding some luck into the game.

You can tR1cK the game to run the pseudo-random number generator twice and select the second result if it was better, as described by tR1cKy above. This is an allowed exploit in GOTM.

 

[Lord AJ]

Now that's smart.
So this means that you change to Republic twice. So how does one know what it would've taken you otherwise if you didn't use this trick. I mean once we are in Republic (using the above trick or by the normal method whichever is shorter) how can we know how long it would've taken otherwise ? This seems interesting. I'll try this in 115 to get exactly what happens however I get the idea.

 

[Più Freddo]

I'll try this in 115 to get exactly what happens however I get the idea.

I think you will notice in COTM115 that you get exactly one turn less anarchy in the second roll. This is just because the first roll is before the turn counter is incremented and the second roll is after, so they both mean the same. In other words, the bug which was present in PtW has been resolved in Conquests. There is no need to re-roll.

Try it in GOTM143.

 

[templar_x]

you revolt and then ask the advisor right next to the revolt-button how many turns the revolt will go. that is how you find out whether you a) will want to re-roll at all and b) whether it turned out to be a good decision.

i notoriously having bad luck with re-rolling, so i hardly use the bug.

t_x

 

[Lord AJ]

I think you will notice in COTM115 that you get exactly one turn less anarchy in the second roll. This is just because the first roll is before the turn counter is incremented and the second roll is after, so they both mean the same. In other words, the bug which was present in PtW has been resolved in Conquests. There is no need to re-roll.

Try it in GOTM143.

Okay. So GOTM 143 it is.

 

[Arjav Jain]

Also, forgot to report this : I got Republic around 500 BC and I also have a 3 tile ring, broken at one point for catching iron.