GOTM 18 First Spoiler

[Markus5]

Contender.
Oof. Bad luck. I'm a pretty competent Monarch player, but, this was pretty humbling.
Build worker, warrior, warrior, settler, and I don't remember after that. The scout was promptly eaten. The first warrior was promply eaten. Built on the golden penninsula then in the copper horses grove. Barb cities build north in the middle of the sub-continent and to the southeast. I was building a stack to take the north barb city and America beat me to it. So I headed to the southeast and was about to take that barb city when America declared. I was able to fend him off, but he stomped around destroying stuff. We settled, and after expanding and building a nice army and infrastructure, he declared again. I lost three cities. The units just kept coming.

I've finished the game. The only thing I'll say is that I didn't win. I caught up, but it was way, way too late.

 

[Thalatta]

A very, very quiet game so far. Probably a rather boring report, but here goes:

I started by settling 1E, researched animal husbandry, then mining and fishing. Washington founded Hinduism in 2640 BC. Bronze working revealed copper in the northeast so my first settler went and grabbed it, cows and horses in 2240 BC. My third city went for the clams and gold in 1440 BC and I finished Stonehenge in my second city in 1200 BC. I lost out on The Oracle; it was built in 1000 BC. I got two more cities out by 700 BC - one north to get the gems and the other northwest to fill in. Washington built The Pyramids in 675 BC. However, I finished The Great Lighthouse in 500 BC and followed it up with taking a barbarian city to the northeast in 125 BC, The Colossus in 1 AD and another city to the east for stone and flood plains in 75 AD. I got a great prophet from Stonehenge in 100 AD, but I didn't even have meditation yet...I went for that and founded Christianity in 175 AD. (Confucianism was 350 BC; Taoism 100 BC!) I built one more city to the southeast, The Great Library finished in 375 AD and at 500 AD was one turn from Music.

Complete and utter build/expand mode for 4500 years, really...#2 GNP (after Washington, but ahead of him in score 686-574), but #1 crop yield, production and population.

 

[Okoewanga]

Turfan got the shrine (I've become a big fan of having a shrine in a space race) and 2 priest-specialists before long. It seems like priests are better as specialists this early than lightbulbing things in a space game, but I dunno, anyone hold the opposite opinion?

I agree on shrine and specialists for great priests over lightbulbing. In space game you have to have good research all the time. But I think a scientiest to make academy in gems/cottage city is better still.

But anyway. The goal is to complete a space race within 300 turns- I was just over that mark last time. So far I think this empire is solid enough, but I'm starting to wonder if anyone can get a fastest-finish space award without having early Pyramids one way or another...

This game capitol and other cities can grow fast and big because of plenty food bonus. When you research monarchy (not very difficult) you can get wine luxery and can make capitol as big as you want. Not really need Pyramids for that. And for later Universal Suffrage: in a space game you have to do democracy anyway. Perhaps Pyramids not decisive.

Me too do spacegame (and no Pyramids, no Great Library) but have to find USB stick with game save first.

 

[Redbad]

I sent my scouts N and they followed the coast round to the West initially – spotting the gold on the strip of land I named ‘Gelderland’.

That's funny; there's a province in the Netherlands called Gelderland. But what does Gelderland mean to (probably) an Englishman from Hampshire UK?

 

[Jove]

@Okoewanga: Yeah, an academy in the gems town would have been the best use for any GP, but unfortunately in my game the Americans captured that location from the barbs with overwhelming force. It wasn't worthwhile for me to capture the spot at that point- my mistake in not claiming it in the first place. And anyway, Great Scientists were very rare for me pre-500AD.

As for the Pyramids debate, my thinking was weighing the benefits of either Representation or Universal Suffrage at an early date vs. just plain growing fast. I felt like I really wanted to purchase some science infrastructure ASAP this game, but then again Washington is strong and giving him too much time to claim land could make him downright dangerous. It's a tough call- I really wondered what results I might have had running Universal Suffrage AND Slavery with an early Education. If the empire could survive pouring everything into Universities and getting started on Oxford University in an appropriate spot, it seems the science race would get a huge boost. But this is probably a discussion for the next spoiler...

 

[Harbourboy]

Hmmm, a bit of a mixed bag for me. I don't know how some of you managed to tech so fast but I'm miles behind most of you.

Contender.

Settled on just south of inland lake.

2nd city was on Goldfinger peninsula.

I didn't bother with any wonders. I figured I had to leverage Khan's strengths so I went military all the way.

By 500 AD I had 4 cities. I have razed 2 barbarian cities and 2 American cities but my technology is awful.

I am on 325 points compared to Washington's 625 so not looking that good at this point unless my mighty stack of doom can get lucky soon. One of my swordsmen did win a city raid against a longbowman 2.8% so maybe a god is smiling on me this time.

 

[Cardano_FF]

So this is my first time trying these GOTM thingy's out, and I have a lot to learn. To Wit:
Adventurer class (with the gold)
Initial Scout got whacked immediately after seeing both horse/copper area and gold/clam areas
Initial Tech path:
AH-BW-Writing-Mysticism-Meditation-Priesthood
Can you see what's coming - well I chickened out and Oracled CoL instead of CS cause I wanted to waste time with workers and settlers to hook up the Horse/Copper NE city asap and shortly thereafter the Gold site - expecting to have close competition for good sites
Build queue
Worker-Warrior-Settler-Warrior-Settler-Library-Oracle-Settler
2nd city warrior-warrior-granary to back up defences I didn't want my capitol to be making
Cities:
Capitol 1 E
2nd City NE Horse/Cow/Copper
3rd City W Gold/Clam
4th City NW Gems/Rice

Ran into Washington very late - probably had three of 4 cities out at that time and he seemed very far away - so no early attacks to secure land - just not sure if I expanded fast enough in the early game to keep up with the civs I don't see - always scary.

1st Hurdle Barbarians came out of the jungle-works and very nearly razed both the NE and NW cities. NW city only saved because stupid axemen attack accross river into jungle archer - NE city lost Horses more times than I can count because the barbs pop out of fog just past horses - needed to post a sentry out there but didn't have one to send until too much later.

Continued teching : Pottery-archery-Philosophy ( 2nd religion and GP seemed like a good plan with a big capitol city - but don't ask me why) -Monarchy(did I mention big happy GP spamming capitol city)-IW-CS-backfill all old techs

Capitol is size 8 or 10 at this point and cottaged to the hilt - other cities are well defended but the barbs stop coming so I just get happyness out of them. Exploration is crap I know nothing of the map other than Washington is north of me and probably no-one else around - so I hook up Keshiks and send then and a workboat around the continent to confirm my thoughts.

Things I did right:
Going for 4 cities on this map seemed good - I got good locations - not sure if I should have gone for 5 or 6 because I wanted to tech fast enough to get a continent to myself - which it appears the designers did not want to have happen.
Oracle and Great Library along with the gold and cottages were allowing me to tech very fast with fewer cities than I would have liked more towards the AD era.

Things I did wrong:
Not being prepared for the barbs.
Not going for the CS slingshot - it's like being half pregnant - I was so close, I could have waited to found cities 2&3 a couple turns to get the full slingshot.
Hoping against hope for an easy war strategy ( I am a much better war leader than peaceful expansionist )
Going for Philosophy - still have no idea why I did that, but the academy in every city thing is nice.
Not stopping and thinking - I just keep hitting enter - it's like crack rock man - I can't stop.

Speaking of which - I kept on playing until the wee hours of the morning when - well I will have to save that for another spoiler thread.

 

[Harbourboy]

I wonder if anyone will achieve Cultural victory in this game. Genghis must be one of the most difficult to achieve cultural with. Unless I missed something, I don't see anyone taking up that challenge. I'm probably too far down the track to go for it, but I imagine that if you did, you'd be guaranteed of a medal.

 

[AgedOne]

That's funny; there's a province in the Netherlands called Gelderland. But what does Gelderland mean to (probably) an Englishman from Hampshire UK?

Ah! We do get out and about more than you think .
Was in Netherlands summer before last. Actually Limburg rather than Gelderland. Near Venlo.

I actually wanted a (whimsical if possible) name for the gold-bearing region. Gelderland sounded like 'land of gold'. (Apparently comes from old Germanic words meaning 'yellow mountain' - still quite close to the truth!)

[I have heard the name Gelderland before. In the film 'A knight's tale', the 'knight' (who isn't) picks a fictitious past for himself. He chooses that he came from Gelderland. The watching crowd are even singing the name Gelderland - football crowd style - at one point ]

 

[Redbad]

Very interesting

Actually "geld" is the dutch word for money, and land in dutch is land in english (though not pronounced the same way). So it looks like land of money.

But to my knowledge Gelderland was the land of the duke of Gelre, so Gelreland which became gelderland. The dukes of Gelre were quite powerful at the end of the MA. But in the 15th and 16th century their power declined and the rich merchants from Holland, Zeeland and Vlaanderen became dominant.

I don't know about those yellow mountains.

 

[ccccc]

I'm a Warlords-only player, and usually at Noble/Prince. But my first-ever (non-Quechua) Monarch win was in HOF G-Major 11 a couple days ago, so I figure hey! Why not go for it anyway.

Paranoid about barbarians, I start out with Animal Husbandry then go straight for archery and put archers all over the place -- my only warrior did manage to reach Washington ... ugh, he has all coastal city locations, so there won't be any useful road-cutting.

But look at all that jungle!! So, the plan was: 3 cities, one for copper/horses and one for floodplains/stone. Keshiks all the way across the jungle and try to take some kind of city up there that can pay for itself and cripple Washington. I'm scared of city maintenance, so I don't build on the Gold site yet. That makes no sense.

Things that went differently for me:

• No barb cities, ever -- probably because my archers and then Keshiks were swarming the map as a first priority.
• Early war with Washington, where I take his capital with 5 keshiks vs 2 archers+1 axe. He has a single spearman, but it loses to my warrior (!)
• I really wanted my special building! And where is my Great General?! I've won lots of battles!
• Now city maintenance is painful. Washington is ridiculously far away!

I fear that while I have successfully crippled Washington, I've probably crippled my whole continent, and we will be seeing unfriendly caravels on my shores before either of us have longbows. At 25AD, my catapults are marching up to prepare for war#2 with Washington -- he has founded Confucianism in the site NW of his former capital, so I hope to have my catapults nicely ask him for Code of Laws!

Question: Can I reduce "distance from palace" cost by building a big road up there?

 

[Harbourboy]

Agreed. I too am missing my Ger and all my Great Generals.

 

[Thrallia]

Question: Can I reduce "distance from palace" cost by building a big road up there?

Nope...only way to reduce it is to build Courthouses or adopt State Property...unfortunately, it'll be awhile before you get access to State Property

 

[Vynd]

I wanted to try for a fast spaceship victory this game. Not because Genghis or the map seemed particularly well-suited for it, but because I like space race games. Beyond this I had no particular strategy at the start.

Getting Started

Spoiler :

After my scout revealed the terrain to the south I decided that my initial choice of moving the Settler 1E was wrong, and went to the SE hill instead. With nothing particularly interesting to use a Worker on right away I decided to build Warrior, Work Boat, Worker, Settler. Obviously the first thing I researched was Fishing, followed by AH, then Mining, and then Bronze Working.

Varmints!

Spoiler :

My scout found the hut and popped a little gold, but then got bogged down healing from animal attacks in the northern jungles, and was eventually killed. My early Warrior, on the other hand, was just plain killed almost as soon as he left my territory. With no one to escort my first settler I played it very safe with him, settling on the southern coast with Crabs and Sheep (Beshbalik).

So Lonely

Spoiler :

This was in 2480 BC, the same turn I discovered BW. Karakorum built some more Warriors to fogbust and then another Settler, while I researched Mysticism so I could expand my city borders. By now I was getting worried about not finding any other civs. Could I be isolated? Mark my words, it’s going to happen sometime, and I’ve always advocated playing for culture in that situation. I decided to hedge my bets by going for the Pyramids, a good all-purpose wonder but especially nice for culture games.

Defense comes first, though. My third city was established due north of the Copper with access to Cows and Horses in 2080 BC (Turfan). My Stone Fish city (Ning-hsia) was established in 1800 BC, and I soon had a Quarry up and running. Meanwhile, I’d researched Masonry and Pottery and started on Writing around the same time Karakorum began building the Pyramids.

I sent a Work Boat out exploring around the western coast. It eventually looped around to the north and finally, in 900 BC, met the Americans. I’d all but decided I was isolated at that point, and had even begun researching Meditation and Priesthood in a belated attempt to get to Code of Laws first. But meeting Washington and getting Open Borders with him encouraged me to switch back to research/space ship mode. There’s no rational reason for this, since I knew he wouldn’t trade with me. But I was pretty much looking for an excuse not to go cultural, and meeting Washington was it. I began working on Alphabet with a medium-term goal of building the Great Library.

Development and Expansion

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, back in Mongolia I’d built some units for defense and some Granaries, Barracks, etc. Beshbalik had a Library and was running two Scientists. I completed the Pyramids in 900 BC, with the help of every forest nearby, and promptly (for once) revolted to Representation. Soon most of my cities were running a specialist or two. But I had no intention of going full-out specialist economy. I would take all the help I could get from specialists but ultimately I wanted to have lots of towns and run Universal Suffrage.

Soon after meeting Washington up north I started seeing his units and cities down near me. I was determined to grab as much territory as I could and I prioritized spreading Settlers. I ended up with four more cities during the pre-500 AD period, including Old Sarai with Gem Gems Cows Rice (I think), New Sarai with the Golds and Clams, a jungle city on the northwest coast with Rice that cut off American expansion, and Tabriz, NE of the starting area, with what turned out to be Rice, Cows, Iron.

I completed the Great Library of Karakorum in 25 AD. Between that and my Scientists in Beshbalik, my first two Great People were Scientists. They established Academies in Karakorum and Beshbalik.

Peace and Prosperity

Spoiler :

My explorer Work Boat had continued on his way after finding Washington, and in 75 BC I encountered a civilization Nameless Foreign Devils. By 125 AD I knew a total of four civs, and was finally able to do some tech trading. After I accepted Washington’s demand to convert to Hinduism even he would trade a little, despite remaining isolated. He was pretty advanced too, with an economy that dwarfed that of anyone else.

I quickly traded to acquire all manner of useful techs I’d neglected so far, such as Math, Currency, Code of Laws, and Iron Working. And I researched towards techs I hoped I could trade widely, like Metal Casting, Drama, and Civil Service. I discovered that in 475 AD and switched to Bureaucracy. While all this research was going on I had my cities popping out more improvements, especially Courthouses, Forges, and Libraries. Karakorum was already well equipped with buildings and so I decided to build the Hanging Gardens there to improve my odds of getting Great Engineers. It would be completed in 520 AD.

In 500 AD I was quite happy with my civilization, which was sizeable and economically strong. Several cities were sited to become strong production centers in the future. I couldn’t ask for much more in.

Research So Far

Spoiler :

Fishing
Animal Husbandry
Mining
Bronze Working
Mysticism
Masonry (2000 BC)
Pottery
Writing
Meditation
Alphabet (550 BC)
Polytheism
Literature
Agriculture
Priesthood and Mathematics (75 BC, trades)
Metal Casting
Sailing, Currency, Archery, Code of Laws, Iron Working (150 AD, all trades)
Monarchy (trade)
Drama
Civil Service (475 AD)

 

[Harbourboy]

Aw, you should have carried on for the cultural win! I'm too far gone to do that, but I think if I could start again, I would have a go at a rare Mongolian cultural revolution!

 

[ccccc]

Mongolian cultural revolution!

You thought Western culture spreading throughout the world was scary? Wait until you visit McGenghis! Fresh pillaged meats from around the world! Mmmmm... and imagine the plays shown on Broadway! I'll trade you one "Gers and Dolls" for one Silk any day!



Edit: I had another question. Is the vanilla AI a lot dumber, military-wise, than the Warlords one? Because there have been some seriously idiotic moves from both barbarians and Americans in my game so far. Like whipping that axeman instead of the spearman, as his last defensive unit against my stack of Keshiks. Or arbitrarily leaving the city while it is under attack, to wander the countryside.

 

[Harbourboy]

I too have found that the combat in this game has been much easier than in all my recent Warlords games. Washington's cities have been pretty lamely defended in comparison.

 

[Erkon]

I too have found that the combat in this game has been much easier than in all my recent Warlords games. Washington's cities have been pretty lamely defended in comparison.

I find the Vanilla warfare more difficult than Warlords. In Warlords, the AI will keep more units inside cities, which makes them easier to kill off with trebs. In Vanilla, I have to bring more defenses, which is a hassle to plan.

 

[Harbourboy]

I keep wondering what more I need to research to get Trebuchets.....

 

[Erkon]

I keep wondering what more I need to research to get Trebuchets.....

First you research "Civ IV - Warlords", then Engineering