GOTM 18 First Spoiler
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
I did start off intending to go cultural, but after I missed the pyramids (by about 4 turns
) I started having strong doubts, and later decided to switch to spacerace, partly because of missing the pyramids, and partly because although all the grassland-jungle would've given some good cultural cities once the jungle was cleared, I was a bit late settling them and decided cultural would be too slow.This is my first civ4 GOTM. I think I did fairly well, I probably could have been a bit more pedantic with a few things but I got lazy at one stage and pressed enter too easily.
I settled 1E, quite a nice position. Then worked on spawning settlers and workers as fast as possible. Not connecting the copper immediately so I could build warriors for MP when monarchy comes. Chariot hunting barbs to get sentry.
I had to connect the copper when I decided to go for colossus in the capital (150AD), I figured I would be working a lot of water on the gold city that now had a lighthouse, library etc.
I put the GP farm down SE next to the sheep. Unfortunately I was a bit slow in building a library there as I used it for a settler factory at first, meaning that unfortunately I got a GP from the oracle in beshablick before the GP farm kicked in. well I’ll safe the GP for when I capture the Confucianism holy city (America founded Confucianism and I spread it everywhere for organized religion advantages)
I decided to go for building the oracle, I was doubtful i could research COL in time, so I built the oracle as fast as I could (925 BC) and picked up metal casting in
The oracle city was actually quite useful, as America built chicargo right next to the iron, I was worried I’d be deprived of the iron, but beshablick located at the horses had oracle, library, and monastry, giving 21culture/turn which luckily extended the boarders and swamped chicargo, luckily giving me the iron.
I decided to go for monarchy to get the happiness, allowing my cities to grow, although their growth was slightly stunned by the whip action.
A bit of whipping sped up the process, with monarchy I didn’t need to wory about happiness
I set up a decent economy, providing a good foundation for research, and handeling the corruption from assimilating America. I guess I could have moade a move on America earlier, moving CS earlier in the research, or using swards, but I figured I’d go for the long haul and take time with courthouses and libraries so that I could maintain my economy while growing.
3960 BC Karakorum founded 1E
Beshablick founded at horses, a few warriors, buildings then oracle ASAP
Turfan founded at sheep, size 1 settler factory working cows, then GP farm
1480 BC Ning-hsia founded (gold city, Karakorum built a WB for it while it started a granary
1320 BC Old Sarai founded, cows and fish NW for a science city
1040 BC New Sarai founded gems to north for extra science city
450 BC Samarqand founded (next to stone, clams and floodplains, provide another science city on the coast)
275 BC Tabriz founded, (next to ivory, fish and cows in east, although cows couldent be worked till I got a galleon to get a worker there)
So 8 cities set up by 275BC. That’s my foundation, now for granaries, courthouses, libraries everywhere. Plus appropriate lighthouses and forges.
Tec:
Mining
BW (for the chop power)
Fishing (capitol, also build fishing boats for gold city)
Animal husbandry (I had to get those cows)
Pottery (cheap granaries rock! Then crack that whip!)
Mysticism
Meditation
Priesthood
900 BC Metal Casting (from oracle)
725 BC Tech learned: Monarchy (happiness problems solved, although I delayed revolt till 275BC as I didn’t need the happiness earlier)
600 BC Agriculture (decided to chuck this in to get rice in gems city, and help GP farm, maybe a bad call)
25 BC Code of Laws (courthouses everywhere)
200 AD Alphabet
Mathematics (trade)
Sailing (trade)
Polytheism (trade)
Masonry (trade)
Iron Working (trade)
Monotheism (trade)
Archery (trade)
Calendar (trade)
300AD Construction (I wanted to start building cats while researching CS)
500AD: 3 turns away from machinery. Then on to CS for mace men present for America. Expected macemen production to start in 660AD, then roll over those longbows with mace and cats.
375AD Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Beshbalik, oracle gave GP as I was slow setting up library for scientists in GP farm, that’ll cost me an academy.
500AD:
Score 673
Research: 109/turn
Cities: 8
Pop: 55
Barracks: 3
Granary: 8
Lighthouse: 3
Forge: 4
Library: 6
Courthouse: 6
Monastery: 4
Score just ahead of Washington, power seriously lacking(he has some horse archers waiting on my boarder), just bare defense and MP for happiness, but that will suddenly change soon once my mace men arrive.
i’m mobilizing for war on America, currently 3 cities on military units, after a bit more infrastructure a few more will join, then when CS comes they’ll all go mace men. Spearmen medics ready, several catapults ready, and a few xbow men. Hopefully it’ll go quickly to minimize WW problems.
Plan: 12 turns till CS, expected completion date 660AD. Then the plan is to mobalise all cities for war, expected declaration approx 900-1000AD.
Then I plan to go for drama to combat WW from my attack on America. Then move for optics, and then straight for MT. hopefully the timing will work out that I can use cavalry in a far away land after I finish off America.
Any comments/ideas? I’d like to try to improve my game play.
i'm sure there are many more exxperianced players that made thier move earlier, giving them a significant advantage from acquiring americas land. maybe i could have gone for a swardman push, but i feared economic ruin from lack of courthouses at that time. i could have probably pushed CS a bit earlier in the tec tree.
well lets see how the rest of the game pans ut. hopefully my strong economy will payoff with good research times and give me the lead when conquering the rest of the world. time will tell....
I settled 1E, quite a nice position. Then worked on spawning settlers and workers as fast as possible. Not connecting the copper immediately so I could build warriors for MP when monarchy comes. Chariot hunting barbs to get sentry.
I had to connect the copper when I decided to go for colossus in the capital (150AD), I figured I would be working a lot of water on the gold city that now had a lighthouse, library etc.
I put the GP farm down SE next to the sheep. Unfortunately I was a bit slow in building a library there as I used it for a settler factory at first, meaning that unfortunately I got a GP from the oracle in beshablick before the GP farm kicked in. well I’ll safe the GP for when I capture the Confucianism holy city (America founded Confucianism and I spread it everywhere for organized religion advantages)
I decided to go for building the oracle, I was doubtful i could research COL in time, so I built the oracle as fast as I could (925 BC) and picked up metal casting in
The oracle city was actually quite useful, as America built chicargo right next to the iron, I was worried I’d be deprived of the iron, but beshablick located at the horses had oracle, library, and monastry, giving 21culture/turn which luckily extended the boarders and swamped chicargo, luckily giving me the iron.
I decided to go for monarchy to get the happiness, allowing my cities to grow, although their growth was slightly stunned by the whip action.
A bit of whipping sped up the process, with monarchy I didn’t need to wory about happiness
I set up a decent economy, providing a good foundation for research, and handeling the corruption from assimilating America. I guess I could have moade a move on America earlier, moving CS earlier in the research, or using swards, but I figured I’d go for the long haul and take time with courthouses and libraries so that I could maintain my economy while growing.
3960 BC Karakorum founded 1E
Beshablick founded at horses, a few warriors, buildings then oracle ASAP
Turfan founded at sheep, size 1 settler factory working cows, then GP farm
1480 BC Ning-hsia founded (gold city, Karakorum built a WB for it while it started a granary
1320 BC Old Sarai founded, cows and fish NW for a science city
1040 BC New Sarai founded gems to north for extra science city
450 BC Samarqand founded (next to stone, clams and floodplains, provide another science city on the coast)
275 BC Tabriz founded, (next to ivory, fish and cows in east, although cows couldent be worked till I got a galleon to get a worker there)
So 8 cities set up by 275BC. That’s my foundation, now for granaries, courthouses, libraries everywhere. Plus appropriate lighthouses and forges.
Tec:
Mining
BW (for the chop power)
Fishing (capitol, also build fishing boats for gold city)
Animal husbandry (I had to get those cows)
Pottery (cheap granaries rock! Then crack that whip!)
Mysticism
Meditation
Priesthood
900 BC Metal Casting (from oracle)
725 BC Tech learned: Monarchy (happiness problems solved, although I delayed revolt till 275BC as I didn’t need the happiness earlier)
600 BC Agriculture (decided to chuck this in to get rice in gems city, and help GP farm, maybe a bad call)
25 BC Code of Laws (courthouses everywhere)
200 AD Alphabet
Mathematics (trade)
Sailing (trade)
Polytheism (trade)
Masonry (trade)
Iron Working (trade)
Monotheism (trade)
Archery (trade)
Calendar (trade)
300AD Construction (I wanted to start building cats while researching CS)
500AD: 3 turns away from machinery. Then on to CS for mace men present for America. Expected macemen production to start in 660AD, then roll over those longbows with mace and cats.
375AD Mahavira (Great Prophet) born in Beshbalik, oracle gave GP as I was slow setting up library for scientists in GP farm, that’ll cost me an academy.
500AD:
Score 673
Research: 109/turn
Cities: 8
Pop: 55
Barracks: 3
Granary: 8
Lighthouse: 3
Forge: 4
Library: 6
Courthouse: 6
Monastery: 4
Score just ahead of Washington, power seriously lacking(he has some horse archers waiting on my boarder), just bare defense and MP for happiness, but that will suddenly change soon once my mace men arrive.
i’m mobilizing for war on America, currently 3 cities on military units, after a bit more infrastructure a few more will join, then when CS comes they’ll all go mace men. Spearmen medics ready, several catapults ready, and a few xbow men. Hopefully it’ll go quickly to minimize WW problems.
Plan: 12 turns till CS, expected completion date 660AD. Then the plan is to mobalise all cities for war, expected declaration approx 900-1000AD.
Then I plan to go for drama to combat WW from my attack on America. Then move for optics, and then straight for MT. hopefully the timing will work out that I can use cavalry in a far away land after I finish off America.
Any comments/ideas? I’d like to try to improve my game play.
i'm sure there are many more exxperianced players that made thier move earlier, giving them a significant advantage from acquiring americas land. maybe i could have gone for a swardman push, but i feared economic ruin from lack of courthouses at that time. i could have probably pushed CS a bit earlier in the tec tree.
well lets see how the rest of the game pans ut. hopefully my strong economy will payoff with good research times and give me the lead when conquering the rest of the world. time will tell....
Conquistador 63
Deity
I started this game somewhat late (after May 15), but Ill post my mid-game spoiler nevertheless. Looking at the game set-up, I liked the difficult level, but GK is not a favorite of mine. I remember having played another GOTM as Mongol, but that was Kublai, wasnt it? Anyway, maybe a chance to practice some warmongering I am terribly lazy at it. Well, it is 500AD now and guess what, peaceful game, apart of some barb-bashing.
I have played 2 sessions. First one up to 1AD. I decided I had to save and continue another day soon after a settler received a go-to order (unescorted) and ended up eaten by a barb in the NE jungle (near iron/cows). Oh well, New Sarai would have to wait almost 400 years before it could be finally founded.
With lots of decent land nearby, it didnt seem right to cross the jungle and go bother George. I have 9 cities by 500AD, see spoiler.
Of course, such land overexpansion doesnt come free. I just got 1 single wonder, and after reading this thread, I consider myself lucky to have succeeded in building The Pyramids as late as 250BC. I also neglected overseas scouting, and my sole contact outside the continent was reached in 275AD.
Worse yet, I must have been really sleepy or else I wouldnt have waited several turns to revolt to representation and neither waited that long to emphasize food production to afford to run those (6 beakers/turn) scientists in my cities. Combine all of the above with insignificant tech trading, and now GW and the other civ are widening the tech gap. Tech slider is at 30% now, but shall be better soon as lots of CHs are under construction. Were finishing Literature, Construction shall follow for cats/elephants. HBR? Unknown tech. Macemen? A distant dream, as MC, Machinery and CS are still far away. See details.
Religion? GW founded Christianity. The others (except Islam) have been founded in distand lands, but I dont know anything else about it. Call me an atheist if you feel like.
Not all is lost yet. We might be trailing in tech but are #2 in Mfg Goods. Current plans include some disturbance of GWs growth, and in the long term a space race win seems plausible. Too bad a relatively fast finish should be out of question, given the quality of players already looking forward to it. If a diplo-friendly environment develops, I might go for it instead.
I have played 2 sessions. First one up to 1AD. I decided I had to save and continue another day soon after a settler received a go-to order (unescorted) and ended up eaten by a barb in the NE jungle (near iron/cows). Oh well, New Sarai would have to wait almost 400 years before it could be finally founded.
With lots of decent land nearby, it didnt seem right to cross the jungle and go bother George. I have 9 cities by 500AD, see spoiler.
Spoiler :
Of course, such land overexpansion doesnt come free. I just got 1 single wonder, and after reading this thread, I consider myself lucky to have succeeded in building The Pyramids as late as 250BC. I also neglected overseas scouting, and my sole contact outside the continent was reached in 275AD.
Worse yet, I must have been really sleepy or else I wouldnt have waited several turns to revolt to representation and neither waited that long to emphasize food production to afford to run those (6 beakers/turn) scientists in my cities. Combine all of the above with insignificant tech trading, and now GW and the other civ are widening the tech gap. Tech slider is at 30% now, but shall be better soon as lots of CHs are under construction. Were finishing Literature, Construction shall follow for cats/elephants. HBR? Unknown tech. Macemen? A distant dream, as MC, Machinery and CS are still far away. See details.
Spoiler :
Religion? GW founded Christianity. The others (except Islam) have been founded in distand lands, but I dont know anything else about it. Call me an atheist if you feel like.
Not all is lost yet. We might be trailing in tech but are #2 in Mfg Goods. Current plans include some disturbance of GWs growth, and in the long term a space race win seems plausible. Too bad a relatively fast finish should be out of question, given the quality of players already looking forward to it. If a diplo-friendly environment develops, I might go for it instead.
culdeus
Emperor
Well I was at my parents this weekend rehabbing my knee from a recent minor surgery. Being all sofa bound led me to the GOTM and some other PC gamez. Got the game to aboot 1AD and thought I saved it on my memory stick. I think the "safely remove hardware" got me. 
Anyway getting one of my parents to email me the file is about as likely as Bush admitting the Iraq war was a mistake so I just started over. The first time through I ran into some major issues having a settler escort to the bronze city get gobbled up forcing my settler to idle for 20 turns or more. This cascaded into missing all my wonder and religion targets, but with the easy location I caught up pretty fast though.
With the restart I didn't do much different at all really it just all went faster as I was able to settle and expand much more rapidly and safely.
I'm going to try to spread confuc. asap and possibly try to stay out of any wars with America for the time being. That jungle is really devoid of good city sites and perhaps it would be better for them to build some up for me.
With the water settings I might still go for a cannons and etc. domination, but I'm gonna have to get more scouting going soon.
Anyway getting one of my parents to email me the file is about as likely as Bush admitting the Iraq war was a mistake so I just started over. The first time through I ran into some major issues having a settler escort to the bronze city get gobbled up forcing my settler to idle for 20 turns or more. This cascaded into missing all my wonder and religion targets, but with the easy location I caught up pretty fast though.
With the restart I didn't do much different at all really it just all went faster as I was able to settle and expand much more rapidly and safely.
I'm going to try to spread confuc. asap and possibly try to stay out of any wars with America for the time being. That jungle is really devoid of good city sites and perhaps it would be better for them to build some up for me.
With the water settings I might still go for a cannons and etc. domination, but I'm gonna have to get more scouting going soon.
Just played till 500AD.
Machinery in 7 turns, two GS are waiting for lightbulb compass and optics. And two more are going to appear soon to lightbulb astronomy.
A large stack of cats was going to take Washington city, but by mistake I signed a 10turns peace treaty with americans!
sh*t! sh*t! sh*t!
I even don't want to play next
PS I better go out, we have a very warm&sunny day in Moscow
Machinery in 7 turns, two GS are waiting for lightbulb compass and optics. And two more are going to appear soon to lightbulb astronomy.
A large stack of cats was going to take Washington city, but by mistake I signed a 10turns peace treaty with americans!
sh*t! sh*t! sh*t!
I even don't want to play next
PS I better go out, we have a very warm&sunny day in Moscow
Balbes
Instigator
Contender - Diplomatic
As every experienced player knows, the early game is crucial. Personally, I'd go so far as say the outcome of the entire game is decided in the BC years.
GOTM18, in particular, rewarded a precisely calculated and planned-out start. Please allow me to post a detailed visual account of what I did early on in GOTM18, aiming for the fastest Diplomatic victory. The screenshots span the BC era in 25 turn increments.
Turns 0-25!
Capital founded on plains hill.
AH first to use cows.
Scout moves counterclockwise, eventually finds gold-and-seafood site.
Turns 25-50
Beshbalik founded to grab gold. Necessary for CS slingshot.
Workboats away.
Turfan planned on top of stone. Allows Stonehenge.
Usually I don't build it but this time is special.
Worker mines gold, connects stone site.
Fogbusting proves effective.
Turns 50-75
Stonehenge finished.
Beshbalik expands borders to grab second gold.
Ning-hsia will quickly pop borders over forests. Can chop Oracle then.
Additional workers built to improve new land.
Turns 75-100
Oracle built. Change to Bureaucracy and chop Pyramids in capital.
Representation will allow cities to grow. Few happiness resources otherwise.
Also adds Great Engineer points allowing to rush build UN in distant future.
Old Sarai, New Sarai claim rich spots.
Workers construct cottages, improvements all over Mongolia.
Ning-hsia hires scientists for quick Great Person. GS to build Academy in capital is best. Unfortunately GP arrives.
New continent contacted via island chain!
Turns 100-125
Push for Diplo victory begins in earnest.
Two missionaries board galley for long journey to new contnent.
One missionary slot available to convert America.
Research continues towards Universities and Liberalism.
Forges built everywhere, for lots of happy from Gold+Gems.
Great Engineer generation stepped up with engineer specialist.
As every experienced player knows, the early game is crucial. Personally, I'd go so far as say the outcome of the entire game is decided in the BC years.
GOTM18, in particular, rewarded a precisely calculated and planned-out start. Please allow me to post a detailed visual account of what I did early on in GOTM18, aiming for the fastest Diplomatic victory. The screenshots span the BC era in 25 turn increments.
Turns 0-25!
Capital founded on plains hill.
AH first to use cows.
Scout moves counterclockwise, eventually finds gold-and-seafood site.
Turns 25-50
Beshbalik founded to grab gold. Necessary for CS slingshot.
Workboats away.
Turfan planned on top of stone. Allows Stonehenge.
Usually I don't build it but this time is special.
Worker mines gold, connects stone site.
Fogbusting proves effective.
Turns 50-75
Stonehenge finished.
Beshbalik expands borders to grab second gold.
Ning-hsia will quickly pop borders over forests. Can chop Oracle then.
Additional workers built to improve new land.
Turns 75-100
Oracle built. Change to Bureaucracy and chop Pyramids in capital.
Representation will allow cities to grow. Few happiness resources otherwise.
Also adds Great Engineer points allowing to rush build UN in distant future.
Old Sarai, New Sarai claim rich spots.
Workers construct cottages, improvements all over Mongolia.
Ning-hsia hires scientists for quick Great Person. GS to build Academy in capital is best. Unfortunately GP arrives.
New continent contacted via island chain!
Turns 100-125
Push for Diplo victory begins in earnest.
Two missionaries board galley for long journey to new contnent.
One missionary slot available to convert America.
Research continues towards Universities and Liberalism.
Forges built everywhere, for lots of happy from Gold+Gems.
Great Engineer generation stepped up with engineer specialist.
Nice pictures balbes.
It’s more fun looking at diagrams then reading endless pages of texts.
I have a few comments on your game.
These are just personal thoughts/ideas that came to my mind, not necessarily better or worse, but just for consideration, naturally everyone has different priorities.
-I would have gotten a second work boat to beshbalick a bit earlier, that extra food makes it grow fast! Especially when a lighthouse is built! HUGe science powerhouse!
-Personally I also liked having fresh water site for the capitol, I ended out maxing it out on pop in the later game.
-Unlucky about the GP, I had built the oracle up in the copper ciry, keeping the great person city in the south east with a pure bloodline, I hate getting a GP when I want a GS.
-I like to have all city tiles improved, so I found more workers useful. I don’t like working unimproved tiles, as it’s not optimum use. Getting those cottages early helps a lot later in the late game cottage economy development.
-Not much military buildup? Even going for a diplo victory, I would think it would be good to secure the home continent ASAP, giving more land for cottages, more resources, and more secure defense (AI suck at amphibious assaults.
I hope the rest of your game went well.
Are you also going to include a final spoiler?
It’s more fun looking at diagrams then reading endless pages of texts.
I have a few comments on your game.
These are just personal thoughts/ideas that came to my mind, not necessarily better or worse, but just for consideration, naturally everyone has different priorities.
-I would have gotten a second work boat to beshbalick a bit earlier, that extra food makes it grow fast! Especially when a lighthouse is built! HUGe science powerhouse!
-Personally I also liked having fresh water site for the capitol, I ended out maxing it out on pop in the later game.
-Unlucky about the GP, I had built the oracle up in the copper ciry, keeping the great person city in the south east with a pure bloodline, I hate getting a GP when I want a GS.
-I like to have all city tiles improved, so I found more workers useful. I don’t like working unimproved tiles, as it’s not optimum use. Getting those cottages early helps a lot later in the late game cottage economy development.
-Not much military buildup? Even going for a diplo victory, I would think it would be good to secure the home continent ASAP, giving more land for cottages, more resources, and more secure defense (AI suck at amphibious assaults.
I hope the rest of your game went well.
Are you also going to include a final spoiler?
unfortunatly my mongolian isn't that good, could you please translate it.
Balbes
Instigator
I did not have the luxury of a 4th citizen in Beshbalik who could work the second clams tile. At size 3, one citizen is producing food, and two are mining gold, and the city is stagnant. I had to be working both mines constantly to reach Code of Laws in time.
I think fresh water is pretty much irrelevant, unless your health situation is really bad like 3 or 4 health cap. Your cities are only going to reach size 10+ if you're aiming for Spaceship victory, and you'll have the various health improving buildings then; otherwise, never.
Because I'd built the Stonehenge early, Beshbalik would've generated a 100% GP as my first Great Person if I did anything other than I actually did. I hired 2 scientists in Ning-hsia, which also had the +2 Prophet points from the Oracle, and generated the 100-point Great Person there. I actually had about 70% chance of a GS. But a GP isn't too bad either; his Shrine's contribution to your research can be compared to the Academy's, if still slightly weaker. Especially so in a Diplo game where you're actively converting the world.
The CS slingshot is a very specific goal. You need that many hammers and that many beakers, both by Turn X. Usually, you won't work unimproved tiles, instead converting the excess pop into hammers by Slavery. Hovewer there is no such quick way to convert pop into commerce. Your only option is working tiles. Cottages start out giving just 1 commerce, so you're sometimes forced to work 2-commerce tiles such as unimproved wine or lake.
The land was hammer-poor, I didn't have a real production city. And Washington was far away. On Normal speed, this means a lot of time spent just moving troops around, and your military gains won't have time to pay off before the end of the game.
Conquistador 63
Deity
If there were awards for the best spoiler posts, Balbes should be getting one. 
Hi Balbes, thank you for your post. Lots of newbees come asking for a turn by turn log of every player's action, in order to learn how to play from other players. Your post is even better than that, since you also explain the reasons after each decision. In addition it is a top quality game, nobody can ask for more! Nice job.
I am after Diplo victory too, but I will never produce a missionary or even adopt a religion if I can help it. I am anxiously waiting for your last spoiler to compare results. Not that I have any hope, anyway, your early game has blown away my poor achievements in that period.
I am after Diplo victory too, but I will never produce a missionary or even adopt a religion if I can help it. I am anxiously waiting for your last spoiler to compare results. Not that I have any hope, anyway, your early game has blown away my poor achievements in that period.
It is Russian and direct translation is:
Only with out victims.
Real meaning has to be extracted from contex.
AgedOne
Emperor
@Balbes
I just saw your fabulous spoiler. More like a living text-book of how you played the game. It puts all of our more normal efforts into the shade.
Just a question. How much time and effort did you have to put into producing this work?
My head is still spinning. I'm going to save a copy for future reference.
I just saw your fabulous spoiler. More like a living text-book of how you played the game. It puts all of our more normal efforts into the shade.
Just a question. How much time and effort did you have to put into producing this work?
My head is still spinning. I'm going to save a copy for future reference.
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