GOTM 19 Spoiler Thread and Poll: What Early Wonder Did You Choose?

[Kemal]

Just finished my first civ2 Game of the month.

I decided to go for a OCC as that doesn't take as much time as a normal game does, and made a big mistake with my free wonder.
As this was my first ever attempt at a OCC and also due to the fact that I'm a regular civ3 player I chose the Great Library as I figured it would help me get the early techs pretty fast. It didn't work out that way though, as the AI was very slow with research except for the Americans, so I only got like 3, maybe 4 techs out of my library.

Since I hadn't played a civ2 game for a long time I forgot about the improvement superhighways so I researched automobile very late in the game which was also rather stupid. Luckily, I still managed to land a space ship in time I before I was forced to retire, reaching Alpha Centauri in the year 2004.

Just one question though: I know that trading with caravans is a very important part of a nation's economy as caravans/freight can give very high revenues if delivered to the right cities, but what determines when you can build a caravan with new trade supplies in a city if you have already delivered 3 from that city? In this game I had to wait a long time before I could build another caravan with trade supplies instead of food supplies.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Originally posted by Kemal
what determines when you can build a caravan with new trade supplies in a city if you have already delivered 3 from that city? In this game I had to wait a long time before I could build another caravan with trade supplies instead of food supplies.

I have wondered about that too. As far as I know it is unknown. Any comment from the masters (starlifter, smash, lucky, Matrix, ...) on this would be appreciated.
(perhaps this discussion should be moved to the Techniques, Cheats, Rules & Discussion thread.)

 

[Smash]

While there things you can do with multiple cities I really don't know with 1 city.Nothing seems real consistant.Often you'll get new commodities after population changes.Sometimes a tech seems to be the trigger.Sometimes delivering a camel creates new commodities to build.
Sometimes you have a repeat city for something like hides in OCC.This is great but you only get 1 on going route no matter how many hides you deliver.You have to build and deliver the other stuff as well.

 

[ferenginar]

Having completed a game for submission, I thought that I would have a try at OCC. I put the game in cheat mode to simplify the process and set about trying to copy Smash's game log, prepared to save and load many times to achieve the same Hut outcomes.

However, I ran into an immediate problem, try as I might, I have been unable to reach any of the three nearby huts by 3750bc, the best I manged was 3700bc, one turn behind already, I have no hope, can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

I am playing an OCC through by my own devices and I'll be lucky to survive, a SS is out of the question.

ferenginar 79

 

[Smash]

You need to get a little "lucky" in that your archer has to climb a mountain with 2/3 move left.Why you can sometimes climb a hill,forest,mtn etc, with less than a full move point and sometimes not, is a mystery.

I just moved left twice onto the river and then up 1 and diagonal up the mtn.I just replayed it and I was successful the first 3 times.It then took 6 more unsuccessful climbs before I got it again.Thats 4 of 10.Don't know if that percentage would hold up over 100 trys.

Not about to find out either

 

[Old n Slow]

The story continues…
1360 -- Theo; 1400 -- Chiv; 1480 -- Inv; the off shore trade is working sporatically.
1510 -- Dem. 5.3M pop. 39 techs. Still 21 cities (seems like I often get into a lull regarding the extensive side of growth)
1530 -- Switch to the new govt. While the rest of the nation is blinking, the great attack against the warlike Aztecs commences. Two veteran crusaders assault Teo……with two dips poised near the other two Aztec cities waiting the new of a half price sale. The news never comes. MISSION FAIL. The plan was okay but, the phalanxes in the city were too much (even with the river they were standing on it should have been close). In a fit of frustrated anger I threw the vet archer (who was to step onto the city) into the fray & finished one of the wounded enemy. [only much later did I realize that the assault was planned on the wrong city -- this wasn’t the capital! Oh well. The Aztecs remain much as they were for the next 250 years]
1560 -- Gun (and the beginning of a strategic mixup. Some central govt figure decided that cities would grow faster of the various boats were recalled & rehomed out of the SSC. This great decision was in concert with the delay of Nav, in order to maintain a high payoff of delivered goods. BUT with the slow boats rowing in the WRONG direction, goods were rarely delivered. After a few turns of this nonsense, a compromise was reached -- one boat was rehomed & the rest were sent back out to do the work they were supposed to do. Nav & Mag would be pushed higher in the research queue.)
1650 -- Phy (have Nav & pushing for faster sea movement) Finally add two more cities. [Need to start a discussion on optimal city extension to new lands -- what to send & how best to do it relative to the constraints and opportunities at home.]
1670 -- Barbs wipe out Washington -- now down to three civs. Looking back to the start of the game, the Amerks & Vikes both had a city in the top five. Now both are gone. Go figure.
1710 -- Met (getting techs about every other turn) no boat chain, but some shipping seems to be working. Nothing has been sent a great distance yet. Payoffs are about $400+ for demanded goods & half that for undemanded goods sent to a foreign lands and foreign shores.
1730 -- Elec; 1750 -- Steam; 1754 -- Conscrip;
1758 -- Refridge; 1762 -- Tactics (Am kicking myself -- mistoggled the science -- could have had a turn sooner. I now have boats with products waiting to be delivered. Also starting to save up the oil camels for far future delivery -- hopefully the SSC will want oil.)
1764 -- RR
1766 -- Ind
1770 -- Comm (noticed a cost to the science toggle when a bunch of cities stopped celebrating -- have doubled the pop. since 1650 -- soooo kept the lux still high & lost a year for science) am also buying a few cities on the other continent; pretty much an even arrangement -- start a new city, buy an old one. I’ll have to crank up the new starts though, I’m running out of cities to buy.)
1774 -- Corp (kept back a few camels to wait for the increased value, hence the loss of a turn) 21M pop; pop seems to be growing at 1/2M per turn; 37 cities
1776 -- Steel; 1778 -- Electronics;
1780 -- Esp; Finally deliver a demanded freight to Delhi: $1008g! Over twice the amount seen before. Distance plays a big role (still no boat chain -- don’t have anywhere near the production capability relative to the products demanded)
1782 -- Machine Tools; 1.4.5 resource toggle for now. Aztecs reach out & touch me; I touch back in their capital (two destroyers have been waiting offshore for a dozen turns); cease fire; last city is purchased at half of the doubled price (no change to reputation) Aztecs gone.
1786 -- Refining; 61 techs; India is down to one city, Japan still has a few yet to be picked up. Offshore shields are just around the corner.

 

[ferenginar]

Thanks for that Smash, i'll certainly give it a try, though it seems that I may need to save and reload more ofetn than I had anticipated in order to follow your game log.

Howecer I suspect that the knowledge gained about OCC tactics will make the exercise worthwhile.

ferenginar 78

 

[IceFalcon]

I personally like the hanging gardens because on deity your citizens are so spoiled, they think they need everything

 

[GaryNemo]

Xin Yu, you have a smashing start! Like la fayette, I chose the Gardens, beelined towards Monarchy then Trade. I kept my many beautiful Settlers from None -- Barbs killed one, I cried.

Avoided Railroad the entire game, built Bach and went to Democracy in 1280 AD - no pollution whatsoever. Accelerated Science up to 1570 when Refrigeration was discovered, then exploded population from 23Million for the last many WLTK turns. Finished last night in 1740 with a population of 78,910,000 in 53 cities.

Here is my log, a continuation from Page2, and duplication of my Caravan comments on Page3:

1 AD, 1120,000 pop 15c, $26-7, Sci 68/6 21 Tech, Mfg=66 FS=4.4
4.Settlers+2 5.Dip+4 8.Caravan+7 6.Troops 5.Mounted 1.Catapult 1.Trireme+1 Athens.Barx Moscow.Library 5.Temple HG COL PYR LH.

20 AD, built MICHELANGELO, discovered REPUBLIC, choose Wheel Leonardo over Bridge University Banking. This land is dry...
40 AD, Revolution turn #102.
60, formed REPUBLIC, Americans nearly GrtLib, 3 Barb Legions appear from our lake! Dip Hut: 4 Barb Horse 20,00,80%
1140,000 pop 15c, $26-7, Sci 112/6 22 Tech, F11 Mfg=69 FS=4.7
80, Washington DC builds GrtLib, Barb Horse kill Dip. Bribe Barb Legion $82, Kiev, short of $cash so 40,00,60%
100 AD, new Legion and Vet Elephant eradicate Barb Legions.
160, Wheel, choose Medicine over Bridge Univ Engr Pot etc.
180, Dip Hut: Advanced Tribe Riga! Bribe Barb Horse $41.
200, Hut: Advanced Tribe Rostov! American Trireme!
220, The Market of Moscow. Making Settlers Caravans & Dips.
240, built COPERNICUS SSC. Bribe American Trireme $114.
1610,000 pop 17c, $52-8, Sci 149/4 23 Tech, Mfg=80 FS=4.4
260, Medicine, choose Pottery! over Feud Banking. 30,00,70%
300, Fdd Astrakhan Coal, Delphi Wine. Located Gold.
320 AD, Aztecs demand Trade, No, WAR!
340, Pottery, choose Engr over Univ Bridge Sea Bank. Bribe Aztec Warrior $62, None. Subvert Texcoco $138 -31 Warrior SEAFARING.
380, 3 Barb Legions, destroyed, delay reinforcing Texcoco.
2040,000 pop 20c, $82-9, Sci 162/5 26 Tech, Mfg=89 FS=4.3

420, Engineering, choose Feud over Navg Invtn Bank Sant. We are near Theology, Bach, Engineers, Democracy, exciting!
460, Vet Crusader annihilates Aztec Settler. Wine Moscow to Kaupang PAID $500+5, Indians demand Republic, No, WAR!
480, Feudalism, choose Navg over Theology Bridge Bank Univ. Loc Philadelphia, Americans demand $100, No. War! 30,10,60%

520, built Shakespeare, Moscow WLTK. Tenotch destroyed.
540, 3 Barb Legions at Krasnoyarsk outpost, bribe $82, kills other, one menacing our Settler. Subvert Teotihuacan for $320, got $191 Phx Barx Harb, AZTECS DESTROYED. 30,10,60%

560, Navigation, choose Invention Leonardo Engineers over Theology Physics/Ironclads Bridge Chivalry Univ Sewer Bank. Discover Japanese control Bombay, Senate: Peace Treaty.
2660,000 pop 21c, $71-14, Sci 185/5 29 Tech, Mfg=104 FS=4.2
620, founded KGrozny. Japanese started Oracle. 30,00,70%
3010,000 pop 22c, $79-16, Sci 244/4 29 Tech, Mfg=111 FS=4.5
640, INVENTION, ch Sewer over Gunpowder, Banking, Chivalry.

660, Japanese sneak attack, kill our new Explorer... Bribe damaged Horse $79, None, bribe Archer $138, None, x Warrior.
680, Jap Horse killed old None Warrior.
700, SANITATION, choose Univ Engr over Theology Bridge Physics and Banking - I want them all! Another secret alliance against us... Moscow Silver to Bombay PAID $390. Kill Bombay Archer, Bribe Indian Phx $123 and take Mtn Fort. Barb Caravel...
720, Stack of Barb Legions land near Vladivostok! Rushed Crusader $120+25+25. Bribe Indian Horse $113, None, Bribe 2 Warrior $37 each, Nones. NOW we need Leonardo! COAL MINE.
740, University, choose Theology/Happy+1 over Chem Gun Bridge Chivalry Physics Bank Gravity. SEWER of MOSCOW. Firing futily at us. Bribe Barb Legion $82, American Catapult $126, None.
760, Lost an Elephant for a Horse! Shell Jap cat, bribe American Catapult $126, None. A Horde of Jap Horse, and a line of American Catapults... Fdd Maikop, Roga
780, Bribe Jap Horse $97.
820, Built LEONARDO, refurbished the old Warriors Phx and Elephants. Discovered Theology, choose Gun Engr over Chiv Bank Gravity (No Chemistry). Senate: Peace treaty w Americans.
840, Founded Vlestok, killing near Bombay.
860, Bribed Barb Caravel $82, bribe Jap Warrior $38, None.
880, GUNPOWDER, choose Chem Engr over Banking/Democ Bridge Metallurgy or Physics. Americans st MARCO POLO & Great Wall. Wine Moscow13 to Wash PAID $610 !!! 30,00,70%
3760,000 pop 26c, $98-18, Sci 301/4 34 Tech, Mfg=138 FS=4.4
900, founded Magnitogorsk 2Whales Hill, finished Delphi Road. Blasted Japanese Catapult, bribe American Horse $82, None.
920, Chemistry, choose Explosive Engineers over Bank Bridge Physics Chiv Gravity. Viking Phx, Senate Peace Treaty, bribed for $47, None. We are reminded to withdraw fr Viborg...
940, Bribe Indian cat $296, None.
960, Japs discover Bridge Building, no scribes. They offer Bridge, No, $500? No, Senate resolves war on Japanese. Moscow Beads to Bombay PAID $332. Crusader killed Bombay Legion, then died.
980, MARCO POLO, ENGINEERS, choose Bank over Metallurgy Chivalry Gravity. Americans abandon MP.
We have 4 enemies, no tech but Bridge, only 6,6,2,2 cities. Bribe Jap catapult $188, None, kill Legion, Aarhus, lost Cat & Dip.

1000 AD, completed Wine Mine, need Caravels, game is solved.
4170,000 pop 26c, $101-18, Sci 317/4 36 Tech, Mfg=150 FS=4.7 14.Engr+7 20.Dip+3 10.Caravan+11 4.Caravel+1 21.Musket+1 7.Horse 6.Crusader 4.Catapult, 1.Sewer 1.Aqua 2.Market+3 2.Library 7.Temple 3.Harbor, and still Spotless Reputation...

1020, Founded Uralsk. Building Magellan for fast Caravans.
1040, Banking, choose Physics/Ironclad over Democ Econ Metal or Bridge (AI knows Bridge). Jap Phx didn't kill our Dip!? Bribe Jap Phx $266, None, Osaka. Bribe Viking Warrior $24, None.
1060, Japs assault futily, Vikings threaten re Viborg! Barb Legions hassling Washington. Bribe Jap catapult $188, None, Viking Warrior $24, None.
1080, Vikings demand we withdraw, No, we renounce this worthless treaty, they declare WAR and a Warrior charges to its death. Honorable, Moscow Dye to Kaupang PAID $392, Bribe American Phx $124, None, in their fortress. Bribe Jap Cat $206.

1100, Physics, choose Gravity Newton over Bridge Chiv Econ. Bribe American Warrior $51, None. 30,20,50%
1120, 4 cities WLTK, Indians & Senate sign CF. Sunk American Trireme on open sea, interfered w Caravan delivery! Bribe Amer Warr $51, None. 4670,000 pop in 28 cities.
1140, Built MAGELLAN in Moscow. Founded RuSilk, Moscow Coal to Washington PAID $660. Bribe Jap Warrior $55, none.
1160, Gravity, choose Steam Ironclad over Metal Mag Democ Chiv Atomic. Moscow Dye to NYC PAID $528. Bribe Jap Legion $148 None, bribe Settler $448 None, subvert Bombay $166 -$46 Bridge Musket, Japs offer $500 for CF, No, WAR!
5100,000 pop 30c, $129-20, Sci 359/5 40 Tech, Mfg=181 FS=4.7
1180, Bribe American Cat $190 None, Settler $348 None.
1200, Steam, choose Econ over RR Chiv Atomic, No Democ. Aarhus & Osaka fire futily. Delphi Spice to Moscow PAID $210+5. Bribe Amer Legion $164 None, Indian Phx $85. Aarhus Warrior reduced. Founded NTenotch. Horse walks into Osaka, $73. Sink Barb Caravel with 4 units to protect Kaupang.
1220, Indians threaten us re Kaupang, Japs brandish Warriors, Moscow Silver to Edo PAID $615, Moscow Dye to Edo PAID $492, bribe Jap Warr $46 None, and $43 None, subvert Edo $392, got $94 2 troops & Barx. Bribe Viking WARR $24 None. Fdd Murmansk. 6080,000 pop, 10,40,50%
1240, Economics, Leonardo busy, choose Democracy over Metal Magnet Chiv Atomic. 9 new WLTK, 7 Markets +4 in production. Satsuma charges futily. Fdd Vitebsk, Bribe Jap Warrior $128 None. Aarhus destroyed. Bribe Viborg Settler $192, None. Sighted Indian Trireme. Bribe Amer Warr $28 None. Founded Kharkov on new island.
1260, First IRONCLAD. Moscow Silk to Kaupang PAID $702, bought 3.Aqua, Bribe Vik Phx $48 None. 10,40,50%
7150,000 pop 36c, $58-25, Sci 326/5 42 Tech, Mfg=208 FS=4.5
1280, DEMOCRACY, choose Metallurgy over Magnet RR Atomic. Senate signs peace treaty w Americans. Moscow Silver to NYC PAID $715, Bribe Viking Phx $48 None, Jap Warr $129 None. Bribe Amer Warr $42, Settlers $360, None. 7770,000 pop.

1300, Built BACH, Metallurgy, choose Riflemen over RailRoad Chiv Atomic. Americans insist we withdraw, Ghandi threatens us. Moscow Hides to Wash PAID $612. New Cannons reduce Kyoto Phx. Bribe Vik $24 None, subvert Viborg $236, got $73 Barx & 3.troops, bribe Vik Settlers $176 None. 8010,000 pop.
1320 Oedo, Indians Broke CF, Cat killed Musket & Cannon! Fdd (Tiflis) Blasted Kyoto Warrior, captured it before they defended it into oblivion, $71. Revolution, attack and destroy Boston, in swamp. 8350,000 pop, Dispicable.
1340, Barb Frigate repulsed by Ironclad, Senate signs peace treaty with Japanese (good thing we took Kyoto last turn!) FORMED DEMOCRACY. Moscow Dye to NYC PAID $596, Bribe Indian Horse $122 None, Ironclad blasts reduce Kaupang, bribe Ind Settler $396 None. Ahh, the luxury: 40,40,20%
8560,000 pop 39c, $281-37, Sci 185/8 44 Tech, Mfg=225 FS=4.5

1360, RIFLEMEN, choose Magnet over Chiv Atomic. 16! WLTK! Fdd KBryansk. Crusaders detroy Dehli. 8590,000 pop in 40c.
1380, Satsuma screams, Uppsula insists we withdraw. Moscow Silver to Hladir Whale PAID $800! Phila destroyed $29, bribe Ind Settler $320 None, Ironclad reduces Kaupang, Moscow Dye to Kaupang $468. 9760,000

1400, Magnetism Galleons, choose Atomic over Fundy & RR. Satsuma & Uppsala again... Bribe Amer Warr $84 None. Fdd Kuibyshev (Tula), Galleon rushing Settler to build near New York... 10110,000 pop.
1420, Satsuma & Uppsala demand we withdraw, Remember Sire American treaty... Sevastopol Dye to Satsuma PAID $300. Founded Ohio (Kalinin).
10670,000 pop 42c, $360-52, Sci 205/8 46 Tech, Mfg=247 FS=4.3
1440, Satsuma & Uppsala threaten consequences... Moscow Silver to NYC PAID $785! Subvert Atlanta for 2x = $680, got $125 2 troops & Temple. 11190,000 pop.
1460, Satsuma withdraw, Uppsala maybe consequences! Amer get Navigation! Hladir, we withdraw, although we hate this worthless treaty! Atomic, Leonardo busy, choose Electricity over Chiv Fundy Railroad. STATUE OF LIBERTY. 6 New WLTK-1.
1480, blah blah. Fdd Buffa 13230,000 pop. Plan $bribe NYC.
1500, blah blah, we withdraw. Moscow Gems Hladir PAID $1044! Subvert NYC 2x=$2088, $179 Barx Templ Walls 2 troops. Subvert Uppsala 2x=$224, $43 etc, DESTROYED VIKINGS 14900,000 in 46

1510 Hladir demands we withdraw, ok. Leonardo very busy, DESTROYER, Electricity, only choice is Chivalry. Moscow Dye to Kaupang PAID $500. Fdd Kazan (Krasnovodsk) & Vologda.
15840,000 pop 48c, $514-77, Sci 130/13 48 Tech, Mfg=294 FS=3.8
3.Sewer+4 11.Aqua+4 3.Bank 15.Market+7 10.Harb+6 9.Tmpl=1 2.Libr 2.Barx 15.Caravan+16 24.Dip+3 24.Engr+5 53.Rifle+1 6.Crusaders 6.Horse 6.Cannon 6.Galleon 2.Destroyer, many Riflemen are None. Casualties: 6.Troops 2.Dip 1.Explorer. Bumped to 40,50,10%

1520, Hladir, we withdraw 4, new WLTK: 6, Moscow Silk to Washington PAID $1073! Last IPRB expensive Horse. 16960,000
1530, Cheating Japanese sneak attack, killed our Rifleman! Chivalry, KNIGHTS, choose Farmland over Leader, Fundy, RR. Moscow Silk to KAUPANG $750. 18730,000
1540, Americans develop Monarchy!
20555,000 pop 48c, $575-99, Sci 144/12 49 Tech, Mfg=316 FS=3.5
8.Sewer+1 14.Aqua+2 3.Bank+1 16.Market+10 13.Harb+6 11.Tmpl+2
1550, built ADAM SMITH. Settler blocking road to Hladir. Bribed settler $384 None, Moscow Gems to Hladir $1020, Revolution, Destroyer vs 2 Phx, capture Washington, $294. 22820,000 pop.

1560, Barb Frigate & Crusader dashed over to kill a None Settler! Democracy reformed, and the Senate signs Treaty w Americans. Bribe half dead Barb Crusader $82, Frigate $102. Subvert Satsuma $64, got $114+40, DESTROYED JAPANESE.
1570, Refrigeration, choose Fundy over Railroad. Sevastopol Wine to Hladir $585, Osaka Coal to Moscow $380, Moscow Silk to Kaupang $750, then a Destroyer blast, capture Kaupang $563+40, DESTROYED INDIANS.
23030,000 pop 51c, $619-63, Sci 153/12 50 Tech, Mfg=332 FS=3.7

1580, more Barb Crusaders at Texcoco! Fundy, choose Leadership. 25330,000 pop, treas $3493. Rostov Silk to Moscow $426. Frigate killed Barbs, bribe $82, kill, done. Could End here. 50,50,00%
1590, Built Oracle, Moscow Gems to Hladir $960. Sverdlovsk Spice to Moscow $123+6, 28180,000 pop. 50,50,00%
1600, Dragoons, choose Tactics over RailRoad. 31110,000
1610, 34670,000 pop. Score 750+300+25 = 1075, no Peace Score!?
1620, built Sun Tzu. Americans threaten us! Bought 9 biggies: Sewers Banks Colosseums Markets, Moscow Wine Hladir $800. 37520,000 pop.
1630, 40480,000 in 51, 16.Sewer 10.Bank 4.Super 4.Colosseum 26.Aqua
1640, 43510,000 pop, $1221 -156, Sci 26/75, Sco=865+320+25 =1210
1650, 46260,000 pop.
1660, built Eiffel Tower, Barb Frigate near our Destroyer!
Peak military: 31.Engr+1 26.Dip+1 18.Carv+15 51.Rifle 18.Dragoons 6.Cannon 6.Galleon 2.Destroyer 11.Casualties 49100,000 Sco=1287
1670, built Great Wall, 52350,000 pop, Sco= 949 +360 +25 =1334
1680, Colosseums, 55790,000, $1502- 212, Sco 994+360+25 =1379
1690, 59300,000, Score 1020 +360 +25 = 1405
1700, 62920,000, Score 1056 +360 +25 = 1441 50,50,00%
1710, 67180,000, Built Isaac Newton, Score 1088 +380 +25 = 1493 Silver Smolensk to Hladir PAID $495, Moscow Gems Hladir $320 (no demand), Delphi Gold to Ohio $129 (demand had changed) 40,60,00% T=$2961
1720, Built King Richard, Tactics, choose RAILROAD over Amphibious, a joke... Founded Allegheny 70790,000 pop, Sco 1141 +400 +25 =1566, all wonders built, growth slowing.
1730, 75750,000 pop, Score 1193 +400 +25 = 1618
1740, 78910,000 pop, Score 1230 +400 +25 +3! =1658,
at 00,10,00% Score=1247 +425 +3 =1675
Subvert Hladir 2x= $1492, 2 Legions Barx Court! Harbor.
DESTROYED AMERICANS. 1256 +425 +3 = 1684, Lenin Augustus

 

[Old n Slow]

Hmmm 9/5? Getting long in the tooth. I’d better wrap up the game & send it away. Just a short set of thoughts before I finish tonight.

Am currently at 1834, with a few more than 50 cities, researching superconductor. Was thinking about a spaceship, but don’t think that I’ll be able to burn the turns to get there.

From 1794 to 1822, registered a tech a turn, mostly through trade (never had science more than 40% during this time frame -- a new concept for me). Carried about a constant bank balance, only now am draining it dramatically since the end is near.

I’ve carried a crew of about one engineer per city for most of the game -- seems that this is a second best strategy. Next lesson for me is to discover the beauty of EXtensive growth as opposed to the mindless ease of INtensive development. perhaps this ratio is OK, but also need to set up an automatic extensive growth strategy. Tried a new idea out: Sent 4 engineers to an island; three build a city the fourth starts road work. The city starts an engineer, and with WLTP activity gets to size four. As it reaches size four, the engineer is RB. City shrinks/grows and another Engineer is RB. Meanwhile fresh engineer and roadie start a new city -- next turn the new engineer is added it is at size three: WLTP starts anew. The only hitch was some uneven terrain slowing the sprawl & Barbs appearing in six out of the ten turns (lots of tundra also slowed the desire for expansion)!

I haven’t decided if this is better than landing the boat & having the four engineers road everything & lay down four cities all at once covering the island with city limits. Maybe the best route is some of both. Maybe this is a good question for a poll.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Next lesson for me is to discover the beauty of EXtensive growth as opposed to the mindless ease of INtensive development.

That should be the next lesson for me too. When I read logs here, I realize that though my cities tend to be bigger and better developed I have far fewer cities than most players here.

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Tried a new idea out: Sent 4 engineers to an island; three build a city the fourth starts road work. The city starts an engineer, and with WLTP activity gets to size four. As it reaches size four, the engineer is RB. City shrinks/grows and another Engineer is RB. Meanwhile fresh engineer and roadie start a new city -- next turn the new engineer is added it is at size three: WLTP starts anew. The only hitch was some uneven terrain slowing the sprawl & Barbs appearing in six out of the ten turns (lots of tundra also slowed the desire for expansion)!

I haven’t decided if this is better than landing the boat & having the four engineers road everything & lay down four cities all at once covering the island with city limits. Maybe the best route is some of both. Maybe this is a good question for a poll. [/B]

Yes, I have been wondering about that too. I wonder what the masters think.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I got done a couple of days ago and submitted yesterday. Instead of posting a log, which I kept, I decided to write a story line (which is something I am used to doing since the days of Civ1). I think that is much more readable. I would appreciate feedback.

My story line is posted in the next item.

By the way, I found out the quickest way to get a top GOTM score with minimal investment of time. Resign right away! I kid you not. This game is the best example of it. Had you resigned right away, in this case on turn 3, you would get a regular score of at least 47 (+25 for barbarians+20 for wonder+2 for your citizen). That would give you a GOTM score of 333. Few people can beat that.
This scheme works anytime you get the +25 for barbarians. It just works better this time due to the initial wonder.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I took one look at the starting position and told myself this is screaming for Colossus. Colossus is my favorite wonder and you could not go wrong with it at this location. But, I had already decided to go with Great Library because I often wondered how useful it would be right at the beginning of the game when tech paths have not diverged yet and all players are close in the tech race. This was my opportunity to explore this issue, so I picked Great Library.

By -2600 I received the following in order: Alphabet, Writing, Masonry, Mysticism, Code of laws. I also got Mapmaking from a hut. Getting 6 techs before -2500 is pretty good. Despite getting Polytheism from another hut, I managed to finish researching Monarchy by -1700 and immediately switched government. So far so good.

First contact with Greeks came in -1650 when a Greek Warrior was seen near St. Petersburg. In -1350 a Greek Catapult showed up next to newly founded Minsk and demanded Bronze Working. I refused. War started. I took a defensive posture first because 1. I did not have enough military units, 2. I was trying to build Colossus in Moscow, and 3. I was trying to be first to discover Philosophy.

Status at -1000:
9 citizens in 5 cities producing 20 shields and 20 trade. 12 techs total. 4 Phalanx, 1 None Archer, and 1 Diplomat. WOW: Great Library. Structures: 1 Barrack.

By -800 Greeks lost enough units to get tired of war and proposed peace. I accepted but demanded tribute and got 200. Colossus got done in -850, Philosophy came in -775 and as the free tech I took Republic and immediately switched government to Republic. I started building an army for the inevitable war with Greeks which I had discovered to have 3 cities.

In -625 Greeks made a sneak attack and killed a vet Elephant. The mountainous region near their only city I could see, Sparta, made it easy for either side to defend, difficult to attack. In -275 I bought Sparta for 411.

In -575 news came that Aztec civilization is destroyed by Vikings. Japanese were having problems with Barbarians: at some point the barbarian city of Kyoto was among the top 5 cities in the world.

In –425 3 barbarian horsemen showed up. Two died in an attack on my city and I bought the last one for 41 and used it to chase their leader and got 150!

Status at +1:
0.88M people in 7 cities. 192 gold. 21 Total techs. 3 Wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens. 3 Settlers + 7 Phalanx + 1 Archer + 1 Horseman + 1 Elephant + 2 Dips.

In +120, with my army at the gates of Greek Thermopylae my republic’s senate forced a peace treaty. I retaliated by buying Thermopylae for 369. Government collapsed. Next turn, a new Republic was established. In +300 the attack on Athens started with 4 Elephants. Athens was captured and Greek civilization destroyed. The economy was switched to that of peace time, luxuries was boosted to 60%, celebrations started in all Russian cities.

The last tech from the Great Library was currency in -300. Overall, I got 10 techs from the library. That is pathetic. I expected at least 20. I knew Japanese were having problems, but what about Indians, Americans, and Vikings. What a bunch of backward losers. I decided to forgo the building of Marco in favor of other WOWs, realizing that there was probably few techs these guys would have to offer. This was a good decision in retrospect. When I finally met them, none of them had even a single tech I did not already have.

In +380 3 barbarian Archers show up near Sevastopol and all get killed attacking it. But there is no barbarian leader! Huh?

In +440 Vikings became the first civ besides me to build a WOW (Light house).

In +460 news came that Vikings have destroyed the American civilization as well.

Status at +500:
1.28M people in 12 cities. 74 gold. 24 techs. Prod: 53MT. 3 Wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens. 5 Settlers + 11 Phalanx + 2 Archers + 4 Elephants + 2 Dips.

In 660 my first Caravel sent to explore other continents was attacked in sea by a barbarian Caravel and sunk. Other Caravels traveled East and West only to find uninhabited islands.

Status at +1000:
1.94M people in 13 cities. 10g, 46g/turn, cost=13g. 27 techs. Prod: 69MT. 5 Wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids, Copernicus. 10 Settlers + 14 Phalanx + 2 Archers + 4 Elephants + 1 Caravel + 2 Dips + 1 Caravan

In +1180 3 barbarian Legions land adjacent to Moscow which has no city walls and is defended by a single vet Phalanx. No diplomats are nearby either. The vet Phalanx puts up a heroic defense and defends against all 3 barbarian legions in the same turn!

In +1320 the Russian Republic is overthrown and replace next turn by a Democracy.

In +1380, still not having discovered any of my rivals, I got tired of waiting and delivered my first caravan (in demand) for 30g. A second Caravan was delivered in a few turns from the same source city to the same destination city (different commodity). The new trade route registered in the source city but not the destination city. Is this a known bug?

Status at +1500:
3.17M people in 17 cities. 15g, 32g/turn, cost=22g. 32 techs, 226b/turn, Advances cost about 900b. Prod: 102MT. 5 Wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids; Copernicus. 16 Settlers + 16 Phalanx + 3 Archers + 4 Elephants + 2 Caravels + 2 Dips + 3 Caravans.

In +1540 I delivered a caravan from Moscow to Sparta. The trade route did not register at either end. There was a Sparta to Moscow caravan before. Again, is this a know bug?

In +1650 I finally find Vikings and immediately established an embassy. There were just North of me and I have been searching all over the globe for them.

In +1660 3 barbarian legions land adjacent to Moscow which is still defended by a lone vet Phalanx and has no city walls. Again, there are no diplomats around. In +1670 the super hero Phalanx of Moscow defends against all 3 barbarians legions. This guy deserves to have a street named after him and his statue put up in Moscow’s red square. President Lenin shall honor him in a public ceremony.

Status at +1750:
7.5M people in 20 cities. 14g, 66g/turn, cost=48g. 39 techs, 350b/turn, advances cost about 1184b. Prod: 156MT. 6 Wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids; Copernicus, MichelAngelo. 15 Settlers + 1 Engineer + 16 Phalanx + 3 Archers + 1 Musketeer + 4 Elephants + 2 Caravels + 1 Dips + 5 Caravans.
Vikings have Lighthouse, Marco polo, 26 techs, 10 cities

In +1766 Japanese, Indians, and Vikings ally against me. The former two I have had no contact with.

In +1788 Vikings build King Richard's and I find the Indians. Indian embassy is established. They have 5 cities.

In +1806 with no cities able to grow through celebration anymore the second ear of celebration which started in 1620 comes to an end: T10L40S50 -> T10L30S60 plus 3 entertainers.

In +1818 the Japanese embassy is established. They have 3 cities and no capital. Kyoto does not belong to anyone else; it must be Barbarian.

In +1844 I put a None Rifleman on the Mountain next to Philadelphia just to annoy Vikings. It kills a Viking catapult the next turn. The turn after that 2 Viking Crusaders are killed in an attack on my None Rifleman who is now seriously wounded. The next turn another Viking Crusader finishes him off.

Status at +1850:
17.3M people in 34 cities. 464g, 293g/turn, cost=164g. 58 techs, 851b/turn, advances cost about 1848b. Prod: 313MT. 10 wonders: Great Lib, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids; Copernicus, MichelAngelo, Magellan; Leonardo, Bach, Newton. 25 Engineers + 34 Rifleman + 3 Cavalry + 3 Transports + 4 Spies + 0 Freight (1 in prod).
Japanese have 14 techs, 3 cities, no capital.
Vikings have Lighthouse, Great Wall, Marco polo, King Richard, Sun Tzu, 35 techs, 11 cities.
Indians have Oracle, 35 techs, 5 cities.

In +1853 Japanese Kagoshima was purchased for 115.

In +1854 I put another Rifleman on a mountain top by a Viking city to annoy them. They immediately throw a crusader at it which is killed.

In +1856 the Russian Senate made peace with Japanese behind my back. Also, 3 Barbarian Dragoons land near my city Riga. One kills the defending rifleman. The other a cavalry brought in from a nearby city and the third one takes the city. I get 3 None Partisans. One kills the Dragoon in Riga. The other two took it, killed a Dragoon at the gate and fortify. Riga lost 4 structures in the process. Also in +1856 I subverted Japanese Edo for 440. I also gave Railroad to Indians for peace. Busy year!

In +1857 2 more Viking units are killed in attack on fortified rifleman on mountain top and made him vet.

In +1858 I find Kyoto which is indeed a barbarian city as I suspected. I establish an embassy with them. It says King Attila is civilized!!! and expansionist. They have just this city. I buy the city for 278.

In +1859 Japanese Osaka subverted for 400. Japanese civilization is destroyed.

In +1862 I have to rush buy Darwin which would have been done in 2 more turns, to prevent it from going to Indians who would then give the techs to Vikings.

In +1863 4 Barbarian Dragoons land near Murmansk and take it. I get 5 None partisans which take the city back the next turn.

In +1864 Viking Teotihuacan is bought for 524. Vikings offer peace and my senate accepts it despite my will.

In +1868 Mobile warfare is achieved.

In +1870 I reach the conclusion that I do not have enough cash to subvert my rival’s cities. Besides I am the only one who can produce tanks. Let us use them. Should have done this sooner. Time to get rid of the enemy. Revolution started. 11 cities switched production to Armor. Many will be ready next turn. Taking advantage of anarchy and lack of a senate the Viking Aarhus is captured. The next turn, Russian Communism is established. T60L20S20. I Need cash for war and do not really need any more techs.

In +1872 Viking Viborg is bought for 652.

In +1873 Indian Madras is captured with Shakespeare's and a structure.

In +1874 Aarhus destroyed by Vikings under repeated attacks. Viking Tenoctitlan is bought for 912. Viking Uppsala is bought for 250.

In +1877 Viking Kaupang is captured.

In +1878 Indian Bombay is captured.

In +1879 Indian Delhi is captured with Oracle. Indian Banglore is bought for 330. Viking Philadelphia is also captured.

In +1880 Viking capital of Trondheim is captured with Statue of Liberty, Marco, and Lighthouse. Viking Boston is bought for 741 with Great Wall and King Richard's. Indian Calcutta is bought for a mere 120 and I receive 248! for its capture. GO figure. Indain civilization is destroyed.

In +1881 Viking Udal is destroyed under repeated attacks. Russian tanks rule.

In +1882 Viking New York is bought for 522. Got Sun Tzu's plus a 372g reward, not to mention 7 structures and 2 units.Vikings are down to 1 city. End game prep started, by having Engineers join nearby small cities.

In +1883 right after building Cure for Cancer, Russians start a Revolution. Democracy reestablished next turn. T20L60S20. Almost all cities are celebrating.

By +1893 Russians have built Hoover dam and founded 6 new cities.

Should I stop now? Almost all my cities are celebrating and only a few have maxed out. I decide to drag this on as long as it improves my GOTM score. For a few turns it is easy to do that, but soon I am barely breaking even because many of my cities are maxed out and not growing anymore.

I decide that +1916 is going to be the last year. That is when Suffrage will be ready. Past +1910 I cannot keep up and my GOTM score is slipping. Last Viking city is easily captured and Viking civilization destroyed.

Final Score = 2641 = 2086 citizens + 540 WOW -10 pollution + 25 barbarians. I had a 100 peace bonus up to the last minute, which was taken away when I captured the last Viking city. I suppose this means that this bonus rewards only recent peace and not just any period of peace as I thought it does.

 

[jicépé]

The poll is closed !
Nethertheless, I answer : I choosed the Pyramids start, for growing. The game was easy, with only Greeks on the same continent, the others on another one.
Easily far away in science (even if Vikings built the GL) and with the most of the WoW in my cities, especially in Moscow.