GOTM 21 - First Spoiler

[ainwood]

GOTM 21 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

1. You must have reached at least 0 AD.

Posting Restrictions

1. No discussions or screenshots of anything post 500 AD.

 

[Kokunai]

Sorry, no screenshots...but by 500 AD I had met all 8 of the opponents and I had destroyed all but England, France, and Germany...I was on top of the power/mfg/gold production in the world...But my economy began to collapse cause I was out of enemies to fight that could be taken easily, which began my demise.

 

[Markus5]

Played out and submitted. This game played a lot like my test game. I easily build 4 cities and took one barb city. I build a few chariots, but mainly used elephants and cats to take out India then Greece. I kept most cities and built a robust economy. I decided that England and Germany were my best buddies and targeted every one else for conquest. There isn't much to say about the second half of the game except that I won. All else would be spoiling. But, I will add that having one front was kinda nice. Also, the crowded start makes this pretty easy. Once you have critical mass, say after taking out one civ, it's just a matter of time.

 

[Thrallia]

I settled in place, started out with a worker, and researching AH. I figured I could rush a settler out quickly to get the horses with all those floodplains...I never expected to get horses in the starting radius!

I immediately hooked them up, and before 3000BC, I was building 1 War Chariot every 3 turns.

I started with Greece, razed Sparta and kept Athens, Greece was gone before 2000BC(for the loss of 2 WC).

Next came Gandhi. I razed Madras, kept Bombay, then kept Delhi. India was gone before 1000BC. I then realized Ainwood had sealed the way to France with those mountains(and for some reason, I couldn't build galleys even after knowing sailing?) So I declared on England...razed Nottingham, York and a fourth city, but couldn't take London, so I peaced England for some techs, then declared on Toku. Razed Tokyo, kept Kyoto and Osaka, destroying Toku by 1AD. I had noticed that Julius was just beginning to mine his iron, so I immediately declared on him and his workers left the mining and hid in Rome!

I took and kept Neapolis, Rome, Antium, and razed two of his northern cities. He was gone before 500AD, and I began to attack Spain, who was a harder nut to crack, thanks to her iron...luckily I had just gotten Construction(only got it when needed, as CoL was more important) and was pumping out Cats to supplement the front.

I will stop here, but 500AD, all that were left were Madrid and Tolosa for Spain, Germany was untouched, France was untouched, and England had London and 3 tundra cities.

Along the way, I took time out from building WC to get Libraries in Thebes, Delhi, Athens, and my only other natively built city. I then hired 2 scientists in each city, to run a specialist economy so my science rate wouldn't be totally destroyed as I expanded. I didn't do a great job, because it took awhile to get those set up, but I've had pretty good research times ever since I hit CoL and was able to spam Courthouses, allowing me to run 40-50% science along with my specialists.

 

[Mad Professor]

Playing contender. This start was awesome. It made things much easier. The mountain ranges though proved to be a real time drag for me – more on that later, and in the final spoiler when that comes out. Anyhow – the start. With that corn, gold and horses in the fat cross, Thebes became and early powerhouse. With resources like that I went worker first to start improving them pronto. I studied AH first to find horses for the War Chariots, and of course found them in the fat cross of Thebes. When I found the second gold to the east, I really didn’t know what kind of victory I was going to go for. I thought war because small map mostly land, good early game UU. But then with so much commerce early I was tempted to go for space anyhow and see how fast I could do that. Either way I was going to need more elbow room because this map was way too crowded, so I needed to fire up those war chariots and get moving.

I found Gandhi and Alex quickly of course – and the mountain ranges! What a doozy. I’ve never had to deal with that before. It had its advantages though! It kept an angry Caesar from getting at me all game. Well the mountains and my eventual mate Alex… More on that in the next spoiler.

I only settled one city myself after the captial to get the rice and gold to the east of the starting position, and I took a barbarian city on the coast to the NW in the tundra.

I hit Gandhi fairly early – can’t remember the exact date – 1500BC? I snaffled two cities on my borders, got peace for a cheap tech and let the WC’s get their breath back to finish him off later. I re-declared promptly, and took Delhi, and then razed the last city he’d just settled down on the ice to the south. Gandhi was no more by about 750BC.

By this time I’d met Napoleon and Liz’s units wandering through my area, so I knew there had to be a way through the mountains somehow. I had met Caesar by cultures touching at the mountain range. The way through the mountains though seemed to be right through Alex and he wouldn’t give open borders, and he had phalanxes in the city I could see (on a hill) which would have cut my WC’s to ribbons, so declaring war to get through was not an attractive option either. Finally my exploring found a way around Alex on the ice to the south and I discovered where Liz was, and met Izzy’s and Tokugawa’s units as well. I didn’t want to take on Alex’s phalanxes, and I wanted to improve my economy anyhow. I did that, founded Confucianism in my hurry to get courthouses and spawned courthouses all over the place. About the turn of AD, I hit Liz with WC’s and cats, getting her just as she got feudalism and starting upgrading her archers. Alex declared on her as well though and while he helped by killing some English units, he also plundered every last English tile as well which left me with a near desert to manage after I had booted Liz out of existence. I kept all of Liz’s cities, (Alex didn’t manage to take any) deciding by this time that I was going for domination. Because of “mutual struggle”, Alex got friendly enough to give me open borders which was fortunate because about that time he settled on the ice to the south, closing that route off to me had I not had open borders.

By 500AD I’d destroyed Liz as well, had started building maces way back in Egypt (but man, did they have to walk a long way!) and moved the WC’s and cats to Napoleon’s border, ready to thump the stuffing out of him next. That’s for another thread though…

I built the Forbidden Palace in a screaming hurry in London. Nice spot, but awful maintenance. Ouch! I did give serious thought to building some galleys to sit in the lakes by the mountains to provide a short way around, but I decided not to, thinking it probably wasn’t worth it since it was only a small map. That was probably a bad decision I think in retrospect, having now finished the game. Anyhow more on that in the next spoiler too!

 

[Thrallia]

I couldn't build galleys, despite having two coastal cities there.

I had planned on shipping my catapults through France to cut down on the transfer time(or to take out France with them and join up with my rampaging WC in England) but couldn't because I didn't even get the option of any boats other than workboats.

 

[Riffraff]

I couldn't build galleys, despite having two coastal cities there.

I had planned on shipping my catapults through France to cut down on the transfer time(or to take out France with them and join up with my rampaging WC in England) but couldn't because I didn't even get the option of any boats other than workboats.

yeah, it seems like ships were disabled for the egyptians (other civs could build them imo), so that you could only conquer to the east.

Like most others, I also went after early conquests when seeing those horses pop up next to the capitol. My second city was already the indian capitol

 

[Marc Aurel]

I couldn't build galleys, despite having two coastal cities there.

I had planned on shipping my catapults through France to cut down on the transfer time(or to take out France with them and join up with my rampaging WC in England) but couldn't because I didn't even get the option of any boats other than workboats.

If I remember correctly, the option of building galleys depends on the size of the lake. The one between India and France was simply too small (too few tiles of water) whereas the lake north of Englang - south of Japan was big enough to allow shipbuilding. Don't know however where the critical size is.

 

[Mad Professor]

I couldn't build galleys, despite having two coastal cities there.

I had planned on shipping my catapults through France to cut down on the transfer time(or to take out France with them and join up with my rampaging WC in England) but couldn't because I didn't even get the option of any boats other than workboats.

I too noticed the impossibility of building galleys on the lake between India and France. (I captured Bombay which was a coastal city there), but was not given the option of building a galley. Delhi was coastal too I seem to remember?

In my game, the barbarians put a city to the NW of Thebes in the tundra on the coast of the water which goes north into the ice. (Near that deer up there) There are only about three tiles of water, but because it connects to the ice north of the land, I think the tile count was actually much higher. I had the option to build galleys there. Unfortunately there were basically no hammers available there though! It would have taken forever to build each galley, which was one of the reasons I decided against it.

Also in my game, I left Alex too late and feared his phalanxes against WC's so skipped him and went for Liz (see my post above). This meant that I didn't have another city capable of building galleys on that central lake until I captured London. That already being quite some distance from my home area, and not that far from rounding the corner anyway, I again decided against galleys.

However, if I played the game again (I've already finished the first time through!) with the knowledge I now have, I think I'd hit Alex absolutely as early as possible to get him before he hooked up metal and get myself a coastal city down there. Alternatively, settle the second gold/rice city on the coast east of Thebes in an attempt to launch an attack (or twin attacks) by a much shorter route. As will come out in my final spoiler when the thread is opened, my route to domination in the submitted game involved much long walking for the likes of elephants and maces who don't walk that quick...

 

[oncable]

I was thinking when I started that I would like to build up Egypt rather than just warring all the time, so I researched mining first, then AH. But it didn't work out that way. In 3320 BC I had the chance to steal Gandhi's worker so I took it. By 2200 BC no India. Since the war chariots were so easy to come by I thought oh well let's go after Alex so by 1680 no Greece. Now I had lots of room for expansion so for a long time I went back to building and razing a lot of barb cities for the gold.

Then I met Caesar and you know he's gonna come gunnin' for ya so it was "back to the trenches" to get ready. A beeline for Construction to get cats and War Elephants. Sure nuff, by 1 AD Caesar attacks so there went the "friendly" game. I did stay friends with England throughout as they were a good place to send my Great Merchants for the gold. The rest of the game involved lots of slow moving cats trekking all the way around the mountains to get to the front. I actually did manage to build a couple of wonders though and had a decent economy most of the time.

 

[Kennigit]

My game started out very smoothly- I founded in place and researched animal husbandry first. I was planning to wage war, but I wanted to wait a while before getting into war pumping mode.

I founded the copper/ivory/corn city first 1 NE of the copper, because I wanted to choke Ghandi off. I didn't think Ghandi would have a metal, and having that city would be an easy access point to ghandi. Shortly after I founded the gold/corn/pig/wine city. Barbarian warriors came from up north about this time, but since I was working the corn/gold/horse + 1 other square, I let them come to attack my city as they had nothing to pillage.

My last settler was 1 turn away from coming out shortly after 2000 BC to go to the iron/sheep/deer city. I could see Ghandi's capital, how juicy it was with only archers at that point, and planned to wage war against him. I would have 3 productive cities in my capital, copper city, and iron city, with some decent production in the 2nd gold city. I wanted to make the offensive in this game, so earlier I had gifted Julius corn before I knew the mountains were there to keep him happy. Alexander wasn't connected to me so I couldn't gift him a resource, but it was only monarch difficulty.

Then I saw a cute little chariot and archer of alexander's 2 SE of my horse- which was the edge of my borders. I knew what he was up to, and I was worried about his chariot moving onto my horse. I slaved a war chariot, and my other gold city was working on a worker so I switched to a war chariot. Alexander declared war on me, but his chariot stayed with his archer and moved 1 square away from the horse. IIRC, my war chariot did not have good odds against the archer on the hill, so I decided to let him pillage my horse. The next turn I killed his chariot in the open, and a second war chariot that had been built in my capital killed the archer.

My workers got the horse back up and I started killing alexander- taking the rice/ivory city he built and then his capital in 650 BC. Unfortunately, I would have had Athens c.800 BC, but one of his archers killed 3 war chariots and I fell a little short. After athens, I made peace and on the same turn went for ghandi with some chariots I held back combined with newly built swords (Ghandi had acouple spears). 450 BC I killed all but 1 hidden ice city somewhere, so I made peace with him. Redeclared on alex a little longer and finished him off 150 BC.

I was shocked during my Ghandi war that the oracle hadn't been built, so I thought I'd try for the civil service slingshot. I stopped teching construction and started researching CoL while building the oracle in my copper city. My tech was very slow, since I shouldn't have kept 2 of Ghandi's icy cities (a marble and a deer city). At the same time, took Corinth which was another icy city below Athens, but accidently kept it. I got a boost in tech when I let Corinth be conquered by a barbarian. I finished CoL and got Civil service in 150 BC, the same turn I took Alex's last city.

I had planned to let alex be and send a naval invasion to Nappy, but I saw how Delhi couldn't build a galley. I killed Alex, but I felt that 150 BC would be too late compared to everyone else's games.

I wanted to get a victory other than the 5 billion other domination victories people would have, so seeing how my cities were growing fast w/ hereditary rule, I had cottages up and running in my capital & other river cities, I had civil service pretty early, my tech wasn't bad (albeit that my slider was low), and that I had around 40% of the population and Julius was pleased with me, I thought I diplo victory would be very good. Otto van Mustache and Lizzy are both leaders who are easy to please and get to vote for you, and Julius was abnormally pleased with me. I'll let you guys try to figure out what minor problem came about with my stratedgy.

 

[Grampaw]

I settled in place and researched AH, Mining, BW, and IW. I placed my second city NW by the mountains 1NW of the iron and in range of the sheep and deer. That became my Heroic Epic city, small but effective. The mountains were a great help in reducing the incoming number of barbarians. Gandhi build a Bombay across the river from the stone, so he became my first target. I attacked in 2520BC with War Chariots and the Indian Civ was destroyed in 1880BC. Like Thrallia, I was also annoyed to discover that I was unable to build galleys in my coastal cities.

Upon finding marble to the south of Delhi, I built a city down there and tried to get The Oracle, but lost out by one turn to the English. I was gearing up for war with Alex, while Delhi completed the Pyramids for me in 775BC. I attacked Alex in 475BC, and eliminated him in 200AD. I had some bad luck battles against Athens which slowed me a bit. I built the Great Library in Thebes in 275AD.

I had researched CoL by 800BC and started building Courthouses in all my captured cities, and by 500AD I was nearly done with the Forbidden Palace in Athens.

I lightbulbed Philosophy in 675BC and got Taoism and converted, with Bombay, across from the stone, becoming the Taoism Holy City. I built a temple there and started working on generating a Great Prophet. It was a long time coming.

By 500AD, I had 10 cities, destroyed 2 civs and was picking the next target, the English, because they were closest to me in tech. They had Feudalism, though, so it was going to be a tough slog. I was building War Elephants and catapults for the attack. My economy and research levels were in good shape, though, with a great capital, a tech lead, lots of courthouses and only one war front.

 

[Thrallia]

If I remember correctly, the option of building galleys depends on the size of the lake. The one between India and France was simply too small (too few tiles of water) whereas the lake north of Englang - south of Japan was big enough to allow shipbuilding. Don't know however where the critical size is.

yes, but the water tiles were giving sea yields, not lake yields...and it was definitely more than 10 tiles in size(the limit between fresh and salt water)

I'm not sure what the deal was, but it slowed me down considerably.

 

[warren peace]

I was influenced in my game by a thread discussing the the no light bulb, no cottage strategy by Obsolete. Since he was using the Egyptions in his example, I thought I'd give it a shot. However, given the small map I'd thought I'd go for a domination victory if possible.

Founded Thebes in place and built one settler and 2 warriors and started on Stonehenge.
2650 BC Memphis
1880BC Stonehenge
1680BC Heliopolis
875BC Pyramids

In 775BC I declare on Ghandi
650BC take Bombay
275BC build Parthenon
175BC capture Dehli

At this point I don't want to strain my economy to I get peace.
150BC I convert to Judaism, Rep, slavery and monotheism

75 BC get my first GP, Priest, put him as specialist in thebes.
50BC Alex declares on Ghandi
75AD I declare
175AD I take Bengalore, Ghandhi Kaput.
175AD Get COL, convert to caste system to implement GP generating strategy.
325AD Great Library
375AD GP Scientist

At this point I had five cities and was number 1 on the leader board with tech advantage. My plan was to crank out GP superspecialists and turn Thebes into a huge light bulb generating powerhouse. With the same religion as Alex I I should have time to race for Military Tradition at which point I planned to blitz the world.

 

[Markus5]

I couldn't build galleys, despite having two coastal cities there.

I had planned on shipping my catapults through France to cut down on the transfer time(or to take out France with them and join up with my rampaging WC in England) but couldn't because I didn't even get the option of any boats other than workboats.

In cities by lakes that touched the ice cap, I had the option of building galleys. I build two in the NW fur city that I took from the barbs. It was handy to move units up over the hump into German/Spanish territory. I couldn't build galleys anywhere else. I guess that lakes touching the ice cap are technically seas.

 

[Thorrez]

Contender

Manage no worker steal (or no, stealing is bad, what why I did not do it ) but still pulled of the CS slingshot in 1920 BC while founding a second city settled by the gold/sheep/corn. I skipped BW before this, with horses and gold in the capital I actually think that is a smart tactic.

Changed to byro and caste to get an GS from Memphis making an academy in Thebes as fast as possible. Science was insane, what about Music in 8 turns in 400 BC (I wanted the artist for a later GA)? I declared on Gandi at this time and had him driven to the south pool by 1AD with three cities kept. Also built the pyramids and GL during the war. All this in BC, so the question was really how I wanted to win

 

[da_Vinci]

yes, but the water tiles were giving sea yields, not lake yields...and it was definitely more than 10 tiles in size(the limit between fresh and salt water)

I'm not sure what the deal was, but it slowed me down considerably.

Maybe tile yield has one threshold, and shipbuilding has another threshold?

dV

 

[Marc Aurel]

Maybe tile yield has one threshold, and shipbuilding has another threshold?

dV

also @ Thrallia:

It seems so! I made some test setup maps for lakes and the threshold is 20. Any sea/lake must have 20 tiles at least to allow you building ships larger than a workboat. The lake between India and France in this GOTM had 18 tiles, the one between Japan and England had 36 tiles.


MA

 

[Conquistador 63]

I wanted to get a victory other than the 5 billion other domination victories people would have, so seeing how my cities were growing fast w/ hereditary rule, I had cottages up and running in my capital & other river cities, I had civil service pretty early, my tech wasn't bad (albeit that my slider was low), and that I had around 40% of the population and Julius was pleased with me, I thought I diplo victory would be very good. Otto van Mustache and Lizzy are both leaders who are easy to please and get to vote for you, and Julius was abnormally pleased with me. I'll let you guys try to figure out what minor problem came about with my stratedgy.

Just a wild guess, but maybe close borders with Julius became an issue? And IIRC there's a chance of having him declaring war even if pleased at the player.

I'm also leaning towards a more peaceful game, but the AI hasn't been willing to cooperate.
I trusted the blue circle and settled 1S in the 2nd turn. Not sure if this was the best move (probably not, the circle even went back to starting location after I moved!).
Highlights of my early game (I played up to 1AD):
. Eliminated Gandhi keeping his 2 cities in a 4-turn war (1480-1360BC). Delhi was buddhist holy city.
. 1000BC: Oracle CS slingshot . Founded/converted Confu, sent missionary to convert Alex (875BC).
. 950BC: Took a barb city by wine/gold on the lake. Interesting to notice that the availability to build workboats/galleys seem to depend on the # of water tiles actually revealed by exploration.
. 650BC: Pyramids in Thebes - representation.
. 250BC: Alex founds Taoism and converts! He gets annoyed with me. I get furious with him!
. 150BC: Hatty declares war on Alex.
. 75BC: We learned Music, GArtist in Thebes. Machinery next.
. 1AD we had captured 2 greek cities, Athens should fall in next couple turns. Its archers/phalanx are no match for my cats/axes/elephants.

Now I should choose a VC. Let me see...
We're about to own 3 holy cities, 2 religions still to be founded. A position which should be easy to defend from incoming attacks. Lots of riverside prime real estate for cottaging. A creative/spiritual leader (cheap temples/theaters). Any suggestions?

 

[Kennigit]

Just a wild guess, but maybe close borders with Julius became an issue? And IIRC there's a chance of having him declaring war even if pleased at the player.

Nah, mine is much more lame than that. Its simple: I forgot in a diplo victory that you have an opponent. So Julius voted for himself everytime and I had to go via backdoor domination.