GOTM 35: First Spoiler (End of Ancient Age)

[AlanH]

Yes, that's my first Predator insignia

I figured I wanted to play with the Sipahi, I wanted a fast game, and I *desperately* wanted to get to my first five-figure Jason score. So maybe, just maybe, Predator class AI development might speed the game ... one way or another Did it work? Wait and see

I had already decided to move the worker south, and in the absence of anything exciting to move east to settle. So Sogut founded in 3950 BC and built warrior, warrior, settler, granary and then settlers. Iznik was founded in 2900BC at radius 3.5 on the river. The granary completed in 2590 BC and Uskudar was built in 2310 BC two tiles west of Sogut.

I irrigated all three wheats and then worked *really* hard at micromanaging Sogut and its first two neighbours on every turn to try to use them efficiently. Not hard enough, obviously, as my 1000 BC count was 13 cities with 38 citizens and 120 tiles, and a lowly 72.5 on the bradleyfeanor scale of growth. I think my error was in not adding granaries to the other two cities, and I probably focused on early military builds to excess - I had 27 warriors and 8 archers at the end of the QSC.

My research decisions played out quite well. Apart from CoL I researched pretty well flat out, and all my projects finished with a monopoly position. Map and contact trading also played out well. I acquired Currency in 430 BC to become middle aged, by which time I knew everyone and had a full map. My completion dates were:

3400 BC Pottery. Sold to Carthage for cash
2670 BC Wheel. Traded to Carthage for Alphabet
2110 BC Iron Working. Traded to Carthage for Warrior Code
1700 BC Maths. Traded to Carthage for Writing and to Zulu for CB and HBR
1325 BC CoL (40 turn). Traded to Carthage for Map Making
1200 BC Literature. Sold to Carthage for cash
1150 BC Philosophy. Traded+CoL+Literature+contacts to Zulu for Construction
730 BC Republic. Traded for Poly somewhere along the line
430 BC Bought Currency from Carthage for 9 gold+WM, which was fully comprehensive at that point.

Wonders? None. But as in other reported games, Carthage and Zulu obligingly built the Pyramids and the Great Library, very convenient for future acquisition, making a wonder-triggered golden age a real possibility at a time of my choosing.

Barbs were not a big deal - maybe a couple of units lost. As we were at Emperor-level barb attack bonus level I was careful not to attack them most times, and when the era change happened the only barb camp on the planet was on the Zulu isthmus between a Carthage city and a Zulu city, I lost just one warrior who was stranded there as an observer, as a horde of horses descended on a Zulu town.

Wars? None in the Ancient Age. My second research project showed me I was going to have to take horses from Carthage, and I didn't want to do that with archers or warriors against Spartan Hoplites. So after my initial expansion to meet Carthage near the Zulu choke point, I switched my focus and, rather rashly, built up a 47-strong vet warrior force for upgrade to swords. My warrior army was so substantial that I had to disband a few to avoid bankrupcy as I switched to Republic after a 6 turn anarchy in 530 BC. The upgrade happened in the dying years of the Ancient Age. The first few turns of the Medieval era would see a substantial shift in the geopolitical landscape as I sought to acquire horses and to build up a larger city count as the Ottoman empire reached for its destiny.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

...a lowly 72.5 on the bradleyfeanor scale of growth

I no longer have a scale of growth. The weight of Zamint's inner ring blew out its springs.

Zamint, I would love to know how you developed in order reach that size at 1000bc!

 

[RevSparkyJones]

This was my first GOTM, and I didn't think to take notes as I was playing, so this won't be very detailed.

I generally play a peaceful style , and this game was no exception. It doesn't get me the highest scores, but I find it more fun to try to work with the other civs and manage a modest sized empire to victory.

In the ancient ages I concentrated on expansion, and researching to republic. I turned my first two cities into settler factories (a 4-turn and a 6-turn factory). I quickly reached my goal of roughly 20 cities (I would gain a couple more later due to cullture flips, and build one more in the IA to claim a resource that was just past my borders). I then concentrated on building up my cities' infrastructure, prioritizing (1) research, (2) happiness, and (3) money. I also built some military units and negotiated ROP's to deter attacks from my enemies (I got some $$$ out of the ROP's, too, because I had more territory than anyone else).

I was first to writing, phil, COL, and Republic, and managed to trade them for $$$ and all the remaining AA techs except currency (which none of the 4 civs I had contact with knew). I researched currency, entered the MA, and got monotheism as my free tech.

 

[AlanH]

I would suggest modifying the formula to be:
1 point per city (instead of 1.5, but see notes about this)
1 point per citizen
2 point per settler
1 point per worker
.5 per slave

.....

Amusingly I think that this formula results in 65 for each of us (MiniMe, bradleyfeanor, SirPleb) if we ignore my one slave worker.

I like your formula! I get 66 on this scale

 

[samildanach]

Yes, that's my first Predator insignia

I can already hear the sirens!!

 

[Denniz]

1.27f - Open Class

I started militaristic but Ainwood fixed my save when I was at 1910BC.

Ancient Age

I moved the Worker to the wheat and the settler east. I researched pottery first. I also stationed a warrior on the western tip hoping to spot the red civ. I got contact in 1000BC. I sent a settler to the bottleneck to grab the horses and block the Zulu. Not that they ever tried to settle anywhere along it's length. They had sent a scout up the neck fairly early.

My 1000BC stats: 12 cities, 27 pop, 1 Settler, 9 workers, 10 Warriors, 1 Archer, 4 Barracks, 1 Granary. short Math, Phil, code, Lit, const, curr, republic, monarchy. I mis-micromananged my factory quite a few times. I probably cost myself a couple settlers overall.

I got contacts and exchanged maps with Carthage and Zulu early on as well with two neighboring civs I met shortly after 1000BC. Since all my productive cities we inland, I was very late getting any galleys built. I had a lot of trouble with the barbs, losing a few warriors and getting plundered a few times.

I built up 10 Swordmen and 13 Horsemen and Dow on Carthage in 410BC. I traded Monarchy to them the turn before to put them in anarchy. I captured a couple of cities and then had difficulties taking the city of Carthage. I was also sitting on two size 1 cities along my border waiting for them to grow.

The last time up against Carthage in the AA (GOTM34?), I switched to Swordmen after losing too many Horsemen. I stuck with Horsemen this time but would of done better with swordmen.

I was still at war when I researched Currency and traded for Construction in 290BC. My free tech was Engineering. I traded the other scientific civ into the MA but they got Engineering too.

 

[Sandman2003]

Open

Settler east to found Sogut in 3950BC - once more amazed at the accuracy of the fog gazers! I built warrior, worker, settler, granary, and thereafter got my 4-turn settler pump or thereabouts operating for quite a while.

This time I ran with max research on pottery, then alphabet, writing etc, instead of my usual min research. Getting pottery quickly was definitely worthwhile, with the other techs, I am unsure, as the AI got some of them before me, still in the end it seemed to work out ok.

QSC stats - 13 cities, 31 pop, 1 settler, 12 workers for 58 on the SirPleb revised scale of early expansion. Not bad for me, and definitely an improvement on my recent GOTMs, especially building the extra workers!

My military was 16 warriors and an archer at this time, partly in response to the barbs and the Carthaginians wandering around.

610BC we finished research on republic and revolted, drawing the dreaded 7 turn anarchy period - what is the trick for getting a double shot at the anarchy period, anyone?

I grew impatient with the anarchy period, so declared war on the Carthaginians in 510BC, with two turns remaining on the anarchy timetable. The Carthaginians had the Pyramids, and the Great Wall, but my mixed force of swords and horses has been sufficient to persuade them to relinquish these treasures.

In 190BC we finished research on currency to enter the MA with Carthage down to four tiny towns, getting mono as our free tech. Putting [another civ] into the MA sees them get mono as well!

 

[SirPleb]

610BC we finished research on republic and revolted, drawing the dreaded 7 turn anarchy period - what is the trick for getting a double shot at the anarchy period, anyone?

Upon learning Republic and being asked what to research next choose "the big picture". From that screen use F1 and then revolt from there. After starting the revolution click the advisor on the top right of F1 till he tells you how many turns you rolled. Then escape to exit. Next the game goes through the regular end of turn stuff and then asks whether you'd like to revolt or you are content with anarchy. Beware that at this point you have already been in anarchy for one turn! You didn't get any production inter-turn. E.g. if you got a seven turn anarchy there are now just six turns of it left. If you decide to revolt again you get a fresh roll which starts now. So there's a chance of coming out worse. Still, with a seven turn first roll I'd throw the dice again.

 

[Sandman2003]

Thanks for the quick response and detail on that re-roll, SirPleb.

 

[Gyathaar]

The pump itself was tremendously efficient--never wasting a single shield or food.

Actually, that isnt correct.. you are wasting 1 shield in the last turn...
Reason I know that is because I built my capital in same spot and attempted to set up a 4 turn warrior/settler factory aswell. But I managed to mess up my timing and the facory got the final growth before the hill was mined... BUT.. it still worked (I left an unworked mined BG the first growth so govenor picked up that on the growth from size 5 to 6)

I was really puzzled because I could not see how I could get 12 shields the last turn when the hill still wasnt mined.. after awhile i realized the capital was buildt on a bonus grass tile, so at the turn of growth from 6 to 7, this lost shield was regained. The most effective micromanagement therefore turned out to let the capital work a normal mined grass til on the 4th turn instead of a mined bonus grass once the hill was mined.

 

[samildanach]

Predator 1.27f
My original intention for this game was 100k. Once I had researched lit around 1380 BC I noticed the libraries I was building were pretty expensive. I had built one barracks but hadn't noticed that it was cheaper. I stopped playing and came on the board to have a moan at ainwood for switching off the scientific trait without telling us.

I subsequently realised that the scientific trait had been switched to militaristic. I continued to play on as a militaristic civ towards the end of the AA aiming for conquest/domination. I finished that session and came back on the board to find that ainwood had P.Med me offering to switch me to scientific. I thought "Sweet!" I have cheap rax and now I'm going to get lots of cheap libraries just as I need them to race to sipahi - 200 AD domination here I come.

As I was going to upload my end of age save for fixing I got the feeling that what I was contemplating doing was not quite in the spirit of the GOTM I then considered playing on with the militaristic trait but scratched that idea as it would take me forever to get sipahi compared to people now playing with the scientific trait. I plumped on sending in my 1380 BC save for fixing and playing towards my original goal of 100k.

The reasoning for this was that it wasn't going to give me an unfair advantage over players who were going for conquest/ domination without lots of cheap infrastructure. Neither was it going to put me at an unfair disadvantage of playing on as militaristic - I didn't know about ainwoods offer of amending militaristic ottoman jason scores at this point.

The advantages I did have from playing from the 1380 BC save was the I knew where the incense was and I had 1 cheap rax.

On the whole I feel that switched games should be excluded, including mine.
BTW This is coming from a player who ended up with an indifferent jason score . IMO The earlier a player realised ainwoods error the more they could work it to their advantage particularly with the subsequent misguided offer of switching traits. Also switched games aren't really comparable to the other games or even to other switched games.

I also think that the players who played through as militaristic only and those who played as scientific only should recieve seperate awards for fastest victories.

 

[SirPleb]

On the whole I feel that switched games should be excluded, including mine.
BTW This is coming from a player who ended up with an indifferent jason score . IMO The earlier a player realised ainwoods error the more they could work it to their advantage particularly with the subsequent misguided offer of switching traits. Also switched games aren't really comparable to the other games or even to other switched games.

I also think that the players who played through as militaristic only and those who played as scientific only should recieve seperate awards for fastest victories.

I see your point here but I don't agree. I don't think the difference is really all that big between the three kinds of games (militaristic, scientific, or switched.)

For the record, my game was scientific.

Regarding medals I trust that the Jason scoring system will handle the differences between scientific and militaristic.

Jason scoring won't handle awards for fastest finishes. We should see scientific or switched games take Culture 100K, Space, and Diplomatic. But if a player is going for one of those goals, has a chance of reaching it, and got the militaristic start I expect they'd have seen the trait problem and queried it. I expect they'd be relying on the Ottomans being scientific. And that they'd be on track (not behind and not ahead) if they queried it and got switched any time before the start of the Middle Ages.

Culture 20K might be a special case with a problem due to militaristic getting leaders more easily. A start with the militaristic trait might have an advantage here. Still we should perhaps wait and see - were there many people going for it? Did anyone go for it and use the militaristic start?

That leaves Conquest, Domination, and Histograph. I'm honestly not sure which trait helps more toward any of these. I'd be happy to consider them equal. I've submitted and feel I have a chance at the conquest medal, though kuningas (and perhaps others) may (or may not ) have earlier dates with militaristic. I'd be content to let it go whichever way it goes. Ainwood has already worked very hard to correct this glitch. If it were up to me I wouldn't ask more of him in terms of separating awards this time as a special case - I think he's handled it more than well enough. (I can only wish that Firaxis would handle glitches in the program itself as well as he's handled this. To ask more, i.e. a special case separating medals, seems unecessary to me.)

All of that being said it still leaves your case, militaristic and fast barracks followed by a switch to scientific, as a special case to be considered. Does it matter? I think not. If you play it both ways, you pay a penalty in paying maintenance on your early cheap barracks all the way to Military Tradition. As a scientific Civ with a focus on later military I didn't pay maintenance on most barracks until much later. I don't think a switched game would make much difference.

 

[zamint3]

I no longer have a scale of growth. The weight of Zamint's inner ring blew out its springs. Zamint, I would love to know how you developed in order reach that size at 1000bc!

Last Gotm (Cotm4) I managed 21 cities but then we were agricultural. This time I tried something new (for me!) : Granaries

Build order in first 4 cities :
Sogut : Warrior, Granary, Settler and so on every 4 turns, first settler in 2710
Iznik : Warrior, Worker, Worker, Worker
Uskudar : Warrior, Granary, Settler, Settler
Izmit : Warrior, Granary, Settler, Settler

QSC-timeline

btw : sorry to hear about your scale of growth.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Actually, that isnt correct.. you are wasting 1 shield in the last turn...after awhile i realized the capital was buildt on a bonus grass tile, so at the turn of growth from 6 to 7, this lost shield was regained.

I stand corrected! I completely forgot about regaining the BG city-tile shield when reaching size seven. Thank you, Gyathaar: I am sure remembering this will come in handy in the future.

@Zamint: Thanks for providing your growth details and a QSC link

 

[rrau]

ptw 1.27 open class

4000bc: study start. Maybe a wheat S of current wheat and a lux SE of southern most visible mountain. Move settler S, and worker SE

3950bc: worker to wheat and see 2 more. After some thinking, I move settler NE one to get all three wheats in the capital's radius (I ended up wasting a turn by going toward the possible lux )

3900 settle Sogut. Start Pottery at max

2750 contact carthage. no trades

2230 contact zulu. Trade masonry for WC, CB, 12g

sometime in here the zulu dow on us after we refused a demand.

1000bc stats courtesy of CivAssist

950bc peace with zulu at no cost (fake war-never saw a unit)

775bc claimed horses near the land bridge by settling Konya on top of them

750bc settled Adana and Sinop this turn; trade Zulu Col for philosophy, mysticism, 64g; trade carthage Phil & col for MM, 2g, WM. Start researching republic

650bc meet arabs. Trade contact with Carthage and Zulu for Math, Lit, 30g

610bc dow arabs for daring to land settler on our continent

450bc peace with arabs for 90g and contact with greeks; trade greeks math for WM, 16g

290bc learn republic. revolt with 4 turn anarchy. Trade carthage republic for polytheism, construction, WM, 19g. Trade Arabs republic &18g for currency and enter MA. Trade Zulu republic for 64g. Gift Greeks to MA and trade our free tech plus 71g for their free tech. Sell Greeks republic for 68g
Then sold both techs to Arabia for pittance as they had built GL and will get them in the ibt anyway. At the end of this turn, Greece had 6 gold, we have 899, and zulu and carthage are broke.

Edited minimap at end of AA

 

[AlanH]

I can already hear the sirens!!

Ask not for whom the sirens call ... they call for thee

 

[Grayarea]

My first serious attempt at a GOTM. Up until now I have not tried a game more difficult than Chieften level.

I also played COTM4 and got annihilated, not a promising start

Anyway I found the land bridge early on and fortified the position to stop others coming across.

I played a zero research gambit, on the belief that it was the best way to go at this level, It seems that most people researched quite a lot, was I wrong to go for zero research?

Anyway I traded for all the techs and did OK. My note keeping leaves a lot to be desired so most of what happened is a bit vague!

I ended the AA with ~10 towns and a war with Carthage and Zulu for my troubles, I started the first and the Zulu jumped in soon after.

I raised 3 Carthage towns (they auto raised) and then I thought that things might be getting a bit heavy so signed a peace treaty with Carthage and a turn later with Zulu.

I am currently populating the free space gained in my little war, and plan on anther push on the Carthage soon.

The bottom line, I am learning quickly in here with you guys

What is the best way to get into a SG? I have lurked in the forum for a few weeks but nothing simple enough seems to be available.

 

[CKS]

PTW Open

My ancient ages went smoothly. I thought to check on rivals before deciding what to research, and ended up starting with the wheel. Then I had fun looking for horses. It only took me 900 years to find them. I did get a reasonable trade out of the wheel when I finally met Carthage.

I found the red border early on and had a warrior wait there for ages, but never saw anyone there. I sent a warrior down the land bridge early on and he was killed by barbs before making contact with anyone. I did not have much luck making early contacts.

I've just entered the middle ages at 130 BC and I'm revolting to republic (7 turns, what fun). I played the ancient ages without a clear goal in mind. I still don't have one, but I have a starting plan. As soon as I learn chivalry I'll try to take over my continent, starting with Carthage and getting the Zulu involved on my side at first. This should be pretty easy to do. Once I own the continent I'll decide what to do for sure, but I'm leaning toward a diplomatic victory. Last month I felt that having a well-defined victory condition goal was a big help in keeping me focussed and on track. That hasn't happened this game.

 

[AlanH]

My first serious attempt at a GOTM. Up until now I have not tried a game more difficult than Chieften level.

Welcome GOTM is a great way to venture into deep waters as you can see pretty quickly where you need to improve by comparisons in these spoilers.

I played a zero research gambit, on the belief that it was the best way to go at this level, It seems that most people researched quite a lot, was I wrong to go for zero research?

Not necessarily. It depends on your overall objectives. At Monarch level the AI research rate is not too bad, but slow enough that a couple of well chosen 40 turn gambits can keep you trading for techs. You really need to push to build your income though to ensure you can trade effectively. Get workers out and build roads and make sure you improve and work river tiles first. And of course you need to get to know people early to reduce the prices.

Anyway I traded for all the techs and did OK. My note keeping leaves a lot to be desired so most of what happened is a bit vague!

Well, it sounds like you did OK if you traded to parity, but it would be interesting to know the date you reached the Medieval.

In my game contacts didn't come too early and I wanted to get finished quickly, so I just kept the research pedal to the floor most of early game.

What is the best way to get into a SG? I have lurked in the forum for a few weeks but nothing simple enough seems to be available.

Check out the SGOTM. It's a multi-team competition, and the teams have formed up for the fourth game - Monarch level - and are ready to roll, but Mad-Bax, who runs it, may have spare slots or there may be people who can't continue for whatever reason. There are also training games to watch for. Now that you are moving up the levels you should be able to find something to join.

 

[BLubmuz]

The starting point seems to be good, so I build there. I started max research on Ceremonial Burial, planning to go for alphabet-writing-literature, trying to build the Great Library (I consider this GW a “must”, perhaps due to civ2).

After the usual 3 warriors-settler-warrior I started a temple and the first warrior I sent north-east found Carthage, which refused alphabet, despite my 2 techs.

Strangely I sent the second warrior to south east, in a straight path that droves him to a never-seen-before (I mean, in other games) istmo. Few tiles south to the istmo he meet a Zulu scout, and decide to block the istmo, to gain something brokering.



In the meantime I was researching alphabet, but the meeting with Zulus was profitable: I get pottery and Iron working for masonry and CB, so I traded alphabet and warrior code with Hannibal, moving some money in this, few turns later I trade again for the wheel and, after writing I sell to Shaka contact with Hannibal for a reasonable (for me) price.



My temple was almost completed, when I decided to try to switch a granary in my capital, and (won’t remember … probably after a settler) in my second town, to increase the growth-rate: this is not my usual strategy, but this time seems to be a winning one.



My first warrior discovered ivory in a pretty near location, but near to Carthage too, so I decided to get this as first luxury, and wait for the comfortable dyes, so my third city was there.

Another decision was for the istmo: controlling this was (for me) a key for victory, so my fourth city (maybe fifth ??? – I forget to keep note) was there and, if this was not sufficient, later I saw the only “free” horse in the continent.



My usual strategy is to build only vet units, except warriors, and to build temples ASAP, not only for culture (invaluable for future), but also for the borders; in this game my second city has a temple very (for me) late, but was compensated by other cities.



The barbs were annoying, but not so terrible, and some money from the camps helps a lot.



When literature was “on route”, I decide that Sogut has to stop loose population, and I prebuild Pyramids for GL, using my speedy workers to improve all useful tiles near the capital.

I’ve noticed also some red borders south-west, and a scout too, but he doesn’t stop to take contact.

Going north, I’ve found incense and, despite the pitiful location, I build a city to grab the luxury.



Things proceeded peacefully and satisfying, when Shaka asked for literature: I thought there was only a city to defend, and I can do successfully, so I refused and he declared war.

I had to wait a lot of turns to see some Zulu unit, probably they had to deal with barbs.

In the meantime, one turn before GL completed, Arabs took contact, and consequently Greeks.

Of course, I traded only for maps, contacts and money … techs will soon arrive for free.



I planned other 2 cities for the west coast, and settlers were on route, when an Arab settler with archer landed, just in front of an horseman: only a second to evaluate, and I declared war, gained 2 workers and the free land.

The Zulu front wasn’t a problem for my swords and horsemen, and the only other “offensive” move from Arabs, after the foundation of my planned 2 cities, was to land a settler (?) and a sword, so I could gain 2 more workers, block the only buildable tile, and then make peace.

This done, and seeing no Zulu attacks, I move south in the istmo, with a worker building the road behind the (few) troops. Few but sufficient to answer to the few Zulu units, and when they arrived inside the borders of the Zulu’s city at the south-end of the istmo, I ask Shaka for peace, obtaining that city, all his money and WM!!!

In the meantime techs went to me from GL, so I put research to 0 and kept contact with other civs only offering my WM every few turns, but when I get monotheism, I started research for theology, considering Sistine a key GW. Of course I switched to Republic ASAP, waiting only 3 turns.