GOTM 39: Spoiler 2 (End game -or- entering industrial age)

[AdrianE]

Just a quick combined spoiler from me.

I settled on the spot and expanded with incomplete rings at 4 and 7. I went the barracks->warriors _upgrade to swords route. I had orginally planned to hit the English first but that Arabs demanded a tech and when I refused they declared war. I signed up the celts and the Ottomans to help.

Something very wierd happened in the ancient age. The iron south of Berlin exhausted and reappeared in the same square TWICE!

As I was finishing the Arabs off the Romans invaded. I was able to parry them with the help of the Zulu. Once I had my army built, took out the Arabs, Ottomans and Celts in the middle ages. My first leader was used for a FP in former Arab lands.
The Arabs and the Celts each settled on the islands so it was the middle ages when they went. The Romans put a beating on the Americans.

When knights arrived I dispatched the English and then the Zulu. A leader was used to build Sun Tsu's. Another leader was used to build a knight army but it died to a invincible Zulu pike !!! The knight army went 0-12 vrs a pike in Zimbawe!

Then it was the Romans and Greeks turn. A leader vrs Rome gave me Leo's. A leader vrs the Greeks gave me JS bachs (for score) but Sparta flipped back to the Greeks the turn it was due to be completed. Doh! Libraries were rushed in all the corrupt towns to grab territory.

For some reason the Japanese decided to attack me as I was finishing off the Greeks so they were next. I signed up the Koreans to help. Cavalry arrived just as the Greeks were taught the German language. I ROP abused China for the last cities needed for Domination in 990AD.

I was never able to build the Heroic Epic and never got a golden age even though I built Sun Tsu's.

 

[Megalou]

I was never able to build the Heroic Epic and never got a golden age even though I built Sun Tsu's.

My guess is that you didn't have a scientific wonder, like Great Library, or that you captured the great Library but didn't build any new wonders after you captured it. The game makes an inventory of your wonders every time you complete one (with a leader or by hand) but it doesn't make this inventory when you capture a wonder.

 

[Paul#42]

nothing said

 

[Jove]

I believe the fastest 100k win on a standard sized GOTM/COTM was 1330AD victory in COTM05for Xarin.

Arrrr, so Klarius just raised the bar. That kind of stuff keeps this interesting. Of course, the results aren't all in, maybe someone will show up with a 1305...

Also, I just grokked SirPleb's 420 IA. That's dang fast!

 

[bio_hazard]

After bailing on my first attempt when i became the world's whipping boy, I'm replaying this same game to see whether I can cope any better with having so many neighbors at the start (hey, that thesis will write itself, right?) I still got left in the dust tech wise, and will undoubtedly lose this game as well, although I think I've improved my skill at making friends, as I have MPP's with Greece and Arabs who are the two major powers on my continent. I'm 4th, 2nd in land area, although pretty vulnerable. I think its likely only the mpp's with these guys that's keeping me in the game..

A few specific questions have come up during this edition of Germany's history.

Great Library- I didn't build it- i captured it, but after i had already learned Education. Is this why it didn't give me any free techs? Would you experts advise just not learning Education and banking on getting the GL if you plan on needing that tech boost later.

If you are going for 'pointy stick' research, is there any way to increase the number of techs you get when negotiating peace? I was beating up on England, and they were several techs ahead. I could only learn I think Education and Gunpowder from them, although they knew several more advanced techs that I needed Education first in order to learn. Any advice here?

Last question- this has to do with turn orders. lets say I have units near an enemy city, and i can see another civ attack that city. the attacking units injure the defenders somewhat. Then its my turn again. Will they have a chance to heal before I get to attack?

Thanks for your help, guys!

 

[Redbad]

Great Library- I didn't build it- i captured it, but after i had already learned Education. Is this why it didn't give me any free techs? Would you experts advise just not learning Education and banking on getting the GL if you plan on needing that tech boost later.

Yes, if you already have education when capturing the G-Lib you can't get any techs from it. But if you don't have education when capturing G-Lib you'll get the next turn all the techs known by at least two civ you know, including techs that require the knowledge of education. So when you seriously behind in techs and plan on catching up by means of capturing the G-Lib then don't learn education.

If you are going for 'pointy stick' research, is there any way to increase the number of techs you get when negotiating peace? I was beating up on England, and they were several techs ahead. I could only learn I think Education and Gunpowder from them, although they knew several more advanced techs that I needed Education first in order to learn. Any advice here?

You can only trade (pointy-stick or otherwise) techs you are able to research at that moment. So you can't trade for a tech that requires an other tech you don't have either. In case there is a "bottleneck"-tech in the way that prevents you from pointy-stick several other techs you could try to trade that tech first with another civ.

Last question- this has to do with turn orders. lets say I have units near an enemy city, and i can see another civ attack that city. the attacking units injure the defenders somewhat. Then its my turn again. Will they have a chance to heal before I get to attack?

I'm not quite sure about this one, but I think it goes like this:
When your turn comes first after the AI-attack then they won't have healed. But if the defending AI get's it's turn after the attack before you do, then they will have healed.

 

[Megalou]

Last question- this has to do with turn orders. lets say I have units near an enemy city, and i can see another civ attack that city. the attacking units injure the defenders somewhat. Then its my turn again. Will they have a chance to heal before I get to attack?

I believe RedBad is correct which means it works sometimes and sometimes not. Compare with your own turn - if YOU had a fortified spearman who was injured, would you not be mighty annoyed (if not furious) if he was not healed at the start of your turn?

I'm gonna be smug enough to quote my own spoiler 1 to illustrate:
"But York had an elite pikeman, so I planted some horsemen on a hill in OCC England and waited for the Zulus to wound the pikeman. This was successful when the pikeman was brought down to three hit points in 650 BC and I eliminated the English."

In this example, the English must have had their turn before the Zulu, unless the pikeman was knocked down to 1 hitpoint and York had no barracks, which was not the case.

 

[LeSphinx]

I finaly won by Cultural 100K victory.


Game: Classic GOTM 39
Date submitted: 2005-01-30
Reference number: 5976
Your name: LeSphinx
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: Open
Game status: Cultural 100K Victory for Germany
Game date: 1705 AD
Firaxis score: 5921
Jason score: 8553
Time played: 13:28:36
Submitted save: Bismarck of the Germans, 1705 AD.SAV


i've made an utility program that helps me to calcultate Cultural 100k victory.

LeSphinx

 

[davidcrazy]

I finaly won by Cultural 100K victory.

i've made an utility program that helps me to calcultate Cultural 100k victory.

LeSphinx

can you talk about how to use it? which worksheet are we supposed to use? r u inter-related?

 

[LeSphinx]

@davidcrazy

You just have to use the sheet called "Cultural 100K Evolution".
Then, you only used the first two colonns: Date and culture at date.
Each turn, you specified the date and your cultural score (using F5 in C3C/PTW/CIV3).
You have to enter 2 lines at minimum with 2 differents dates in order the system works.

Hope its helps.
LeSphinx

 

[dojoboy]

Open

Well, I ended up losing my 5CC attempt. I was one tech (1 SS part) away from launching when the Chinese launched.

 

[Redbad]

Open

Well, I ended up losing my 5CC attempt. I was one tech (1 SS part) away from launching when the Chinese launched.

You have no luck Dojoboy, with your spacequests, last month Ballywog and now Mao.

 

[bio_hazard]

@Redbad/Megalou

Thanks for the info! One more newbie question- so is the turn order the same as the Civ order on the Diplomacy screen? If not, what does determine that order?

 

[Redbad]

I'm afraid I have no answer to that question

 

[denyd]

I think it goes human player first, then in the order they were selected on the game parameters screen and last are barbarians.

 

[ainwood]

@Redbad/Megalou

Thanks for the info! One more newbie question- so is the turn order the same as the Civ order on the Diplomacy screen? If not, what does determine that order?

Its in the same order as on the histograph screen.

 

[CKS]

PTW 1.27 Open
20K Attempt

I left the ancient age with few cities but a reasonable set of culture buildings in Leipzig. I did get the Hanging Gardens after a horribly long revolt to monarchy (6 turns using 2 tries). I revolted to monarchy because it was available long before republic, and then I stayed there because I was unwilling to risk another revolt. Plus, nobody learned republic for a _long_ time. Since I was planning on some wars, and I tend to be very slow at it, I thought I could live with the cash vs. war weariness tradeoff. As it happens, I don't research very quickly, but trading has kept me up in tech (and now ahead), and ahead in money. I'm running at 100% science and making positive gpt. While I'm not close to a 4 turn pace myself, the net result isn't bad, between my research and what I can buy.

I built a smallish military eventually, and declared on the English in 270 AD. They have 2 cities building wonders and 2 workers on my borders, so they look easy. I take 4 cities over the course of 200 years, and then I make peace, getting 2 techs that I then trade for 2 more. I wait out the 20 turns and then attack again, taking their last 2 continental cities and another tech.

Two turns after finishing with the English, the Greeks declare and take Bonn. This is bad, as they are the biggest civ on the continent and they have a significant tech lead over me. I take all my assets and get most of the rest of the continent to ally with me against them. They take several cities, but at last the tide turns my way for a while. After the alliances run out and my army has the chance to be victorious, I make peace. I get some of my cities back via flipping. So far 6 or 7 cities have flipped to me, thanks to my build-libraries-in-border-cities campaign.

The Zulu get beat up pretty badly, and I declare on them toward the end, netting one city. I had an alliance with them against the Koreans, because they paid well, and this kept me from declaring on the Zulu earlier. However, I put several settlers in the area as the Zulu died, and got an extra 4 or 5 cities planted when the culture shrank. The Korean war was mostly phoney, but they did land 2 knights on my shores. Consequently, the Koreans paid to make peace after the alliance was over.

I hit the industrial age during the war with the Zulu. I'm now well into it and at war with the Romans. In about 30 turns I've captured 3 cities, one of them twice. I'm not in a big hurry, so I'm starving their cities down and being patient. I've got some cannons, but I need more. I'm hoping to get some more GL out of this before they are gone.

Culture-wise, the middle ages were lousy. I got the Sistine Chapel, but missed Bach's Cathedral by 2 turns. I hadn't had enough cash to rush the university - spending 5 turns on it lost me Bach's. Luckily I was able to buy Astronomy, and I could switch to Copernicus' Observatory. I wasted a bunch of shields, but not all of them. I get Shakespeare's Theater, but think that I'll not get Newton's because several people have already started it. When they quit, I decide to switch my Heroic Epic production to Newton's. All the AI are building Smith's. Unfortunately for me, they finish it 1 turn before I finish Newton's, and I lose it in the cascade. So, I lose 2 big culture wonders by 3 turns total, basically all because I didn't have enough cash for my university. Newton's turns into a Universal Sufferage prebuild, which is better than nothing.

Along the way I've gotten 2 GLs. I used one for an army after building Copernicus', as I had a long time before I'd know enough techs. It has taken me 400 years to get the Heroic Epic build, but at least I could. The second came shortly after finishing the HE. I used it on the military academy, as I'd have a nice prebuild for Theory of Evolution by the time I learned the scientific method. In retrospect, I probably should have used it to jump my palace to get more production out of my empire, but I didn't. I'll try to remember this if I get another while I'm researching the wonderless end of the industrial ages tech tree.

My culture builds look like this: AA: temple, library, oracle, (most of HG)
MA: Hanging Gardens (170 BC), Colosseum (10 BC), FP (230 AD), cathedral (320 AD), Sistine Chapel (620 AD), university (670 AD), Copernicus' Observatory (940 AD), and Shakespeare's Theater (1130 AD)
IA, so far: Universal Sufferage (1330 AD), Heroic Epic (1360 AD), Military Academy (1400 AD), TOE (1485 AD).
I've got a predicted win date of 1940 right now. It should be down close to 1900 by the end. I'm reasonably sure that no one else can win before I do, but I'll have lots of bail-out options along the way.

I don't know the attributes of all the wonders, and so I was surprised when TOE started a golden age. I should be able to get Hoover Dam and a bunch of small wonders before it is over. Plus I'll get some more infrastructure built and improve my military a bit.

 

[Redbad]

@CKS
You should do your most to get the "normal" culturel improvements as fast as possible. So when you don't have enough money to rush the university put science to zero en entertainment as low as possible, disband obsolete military, buy money for gold per turn from the AI. Get those improvements rushed.
And also rush the factory and the coal plant asap.
Remember your 20K city should at any time, always be building or prebuilding wonders, small and great.

 

[CKS]

@CKS
You should do your most to get the "normal" culturel improvements as fast as possible. So when you don't have enough money to rush the university put science to zero en entertainment as low as possible, disband obsolete military, buy money for gold per turn from the AI. Get those improvements rushed.

Yeah, that was the plan, but something came up. Unfortunately, I don't remember what it was and I didn't write it down. Usually I manage to have cash on hand for all but one rush, and this was it this game. Since I was a monarchy, the available cash at 100% taxes wasn't much. I needed to plan farther ahead. This game I've gotten caught several times by jumps in tech that I hadn't anticipated. Lack of sufficient long-range planning is remains my downfall.

Disbanding military rarely works for me, because I still don't usually have anywhere near enough. I did use this when rushing my factory, later on.

Oh, well, it is more interesting this way. Lack of adequate preparation leads to exciting ends-of-games, when the outcome is in doubt. Although actually, this game is pretty much mine.

 

[ignas]

Predator,going for diplo..Entered MA in about 440bc..Gifted sci civs to MA ,and traded for their free teh engi..Built bunch of libraries and unis and researched all the MA non optional techs myself ...Entered IA in 510AD..Had few wars with as few units as possiblee..Wars resulted in securing two more (had 5at all) luxes and getting one leader which was used to rush newtons in the capital and to begin GA..