Gotm 60 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

Actually, I figured since it was my thread that started this whole thing, I had to make every effort to play in this historic 5th anniversary game.

Thanks for that history. I am curious; who came up with the GOTM score and when?

As for this particular game, it's quite an interesting setup. I clearly am not used to playing these types of games in modern times with the AI on near equal footing.

No good player is. If you are any good, this far into the game you are either technologically or logistically way ahead of the pack. That is a great part of the appeal of this game. You will never get into a situation like this starting from scratch.

I also didn't take the time to calculate estimated delivery payouts at first, so I didn't send things far enough away and wasted a ton of early freights on clunker payouts and felt like I was then playing from behind for quite a while because I didn't get the cash infusion I was expecting.

My problem exactly.

Eventually I launched a moderately big ship expected to land jan '13.

Beats me. My 3-module ship (first time ever I have launched a ship with 3 sets of modules) will arrive in June of 2013.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Thanks for that history. I am curious; who came up with the GOTM score and when?

The 'meat' of the current GOTM scoring was devised by Matrix, who was the original moderator/manager of the GOTM games. He did a ton of work to get things going once it was suggested. I think he came up with it after about the first 3 or 4 games. It was actually the 3rd scoring system that was used. The first game used one scoring system, while that was found to be too beneficial to end-of-game score inflation. In game 2, they cranked up the ratio used to reward early finishes, but he was still unhappy. I guess he enjoyed statistical analysis a bit, so he played with the numbers and couldn't find a ratio that made him happy when looking at how different games' scores came out (i.e., really impressive early games still scored poorly). Then, I think month 3, he tracked and plotted his civ score every single turn of his own game-that's when he saw the score went up roughly exponentially and came up with the basics for the scoring system as we know it today. There was still a bit of discussion of just what the factor should be, but the mechanics were basically Matrix's idea.

 

[Peaster]

Tim: Thanks for the GOTM history. Very interesting to those of us who came so much later. Most of the early names are just unknown to me. It is nice to see Andu and WillemVanOrange playing again.

Tim and Ali (you whiners ) : Now I don't feel so alone about not solving all the problems in this GOTM. I am replaying for conquest - USA again, but with 2.42, with no self-imposed rule to stay with democracy. Version 2.42 seems much better than MGE here, with fewer crazy sneak attacks. Making outposts (like Uruwashi's Canary Island one) is probably easier with 2.42. The differences are there in normal GOTMs too, but they are magnified when the AI has decent units, and nukes.

I am interested how players chose their starting civs. I chose USA hoping for an easier game [airports, tech, Magellan] but IMO it didn't work out that way. The airports are too risky when at war with the NANs, so IMO USA has to build RRs, which makes the airports almost obsolete. And the tech lead is pretty meaningless when any civ can get the last few techs easily thru spies and trade.

Also, IMO Democracy aint so great here. In principle, it's good for quick growth, but USA doesn't have aqueducts/etc and happy wonders. Hard to get all that AND get trade going, build SDI's, RR's etc. Demo should be good for research but that is not really needed in this gotm.

Demo prevents bribery, but that seems to be a minor danger so far. In my replay, I grew/traded a little, then went Commie in turn 12 for some vet spies, and I just went Fundy in turn 16 for war + gold + license to use nasty spies. Seems to be working out OK... I will probably report again later.

BTW are turns December and April "oedo years" for this game? [IIRC Golem reported a govt change in June ??]

I am experimenting to find the best invasion method for this period. The conventional Howie + Engineer combo seems to work fine, but capturing a city puts 4-8 units at risk of a nuke, before I can build an SDI (which is pretty expensive anyway). I built two X-Packs, but don't have a definite opinion on that idea yet (the AI throws away lots of units on the Pack, but I am not quite sure how to attack with one yet). Vet spies with suitcases were VERY effective in my first game, but you must deal with the pollution, if you care about your score [I conjecture that suitcases make sense mainly for difficult targets, like capitols].

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Now I don't feel so alone about not solving all the problems in this GOTM.

As I have repeatedly said from the beginning this set up was unfamiliar to any good player, not just conquest players. Good players do not end up in modern age at par with AI.

I am interested how players chose their starting civs. I chose USA hoping for an easier game [airports, tech, Magellan] but IMO it didn't work out that way. The airports are too risky when at war with the NANs, so IMO USA has to build RRs, which makes the airports almost obsolete. And the tech lead is pretty meaningless when any civ can get the last few techs easily thru spies and trade.

I looked at all 3 and made a detailed list of techs, gold, arrow production, shield production, units, woders, and infrastructure. Once the list was made it was obvious that Europe is a superior choice to America. The choice between Europe and Non-Aligned however was not so obvious. I agonized a lot over it and decided to go with Europe. The one and only surprise for me was how measly the caravan delivery bonuses were. Had I been able to predict that I would have gone with Non-Aligned.

You are right about the tech lead; I put little value on that.

I disagree with your assesment of the Airports. They serve 3 important functions:
1. Transportation; which as you pointed out could be dangerous if the enemy has air units around your route.
2. Trade; if both ends of a trade route have airports the value of the trade route increases
3. Any air unit made in a city with an airport is vet.

I am experimenting to find the best invasion method for this period.

I do not engage in modern warfare often, but when I do my unit of choice is the stealth bomber. It has the highest attack factor (14) of any unit short of missiles. Make them vet and you have a unit with an attack factor of 21. The best possible defense, a vet mech infantry in a city with SAM, has a defense factor of 6*1.5*2=18. I typically decimate my opponent's defenses with stealth bombers and then walk in with a tank or a helicopter.

 

[Peaster]

As I have repeatedly said from the beginning this set up was unfamiliar to any good player, not just conquest players. Good players do not end up in modern age at par with AI.

Yes for people that only play gotms, but for all players? IMO La Fayette would have felt at home with this GOTM, because he had so much experience with scenarios (and maybe PBEM/MP etc). Also, golem and Uruwashi seemed to know what they were doing.

I disagree with your assesment of the Airports. They serve 3 important functions:
1. Transportation; which as you pointed out could be dangerous if the enemy has air units around your route.
2. Trade; if both ends of a trade route have airports the value of the trade route increases
3. Any air unit made in a city with an airport is vet.

I have little experience with airports. Just to check I understand part 1 - the risk of sending a unit from city A to city B depends on the locations of the two cities and on enemy air units ? I didn't know about comment 2. On comment 3, IMHO the USA needs just 2-3 airports for making vet planes (expensive, and not a high priority compared to freight, transports, engineers and spies).

I do not engage in modern warfare often, but when I do my unit of choice is the stealth bomber. It has the highest attack factor (14) of any unit short of missiles. Make them vet and you have a unit with an attack factor of 21. The best possible defense, a vet mech infantry in a city with SAM, has a defense factor of 6*1.5*2=18. I typically decimate my opponent's defenses with stealth bombers and then walk in with a tank or a helicopter.

You may be right - I will try this out. In my limited experience, I have prefered Howitzers over St.B's because:

a) Including attack factor and hit points, Howies = 12x3 vs St.B = 14x2.
b) Howies are much cheaper, 70s < 160s.
c) Bombers have to land every second turn.
d) Howies can auto-heal by capturing a city.
e) Howies ignore SAMS (and hardly notice stealth fighters)

Of course St.B's have greater range [without good RRs for the Howies] and they can protect ground units, and attack boats, etc so the answer is not obvious.

 

[golem]

1 - the risk of sending a unit from city A to city B depends on the locations of the two cities and on enemy air units ?

Airports are great for areas with peace. In my game I use them to transport units to Bern each turn - when I was allied with EU. If you are at war fighters are the problem - if AI has some fighters around, they usually shotdown your transport. I suppose it depends on their number too - in some games I have about 50 percent success with delivering, but sometimes I have no chance - too much fighters was around.

I do not engage in modern warfare often, but when I do my unit of choice is the stealth bomber

Stealth bombers were not very usefull in this game. I made some but they were destroyed very quickly. My favourite tactic from WWII was attack city with bomber and put battleship or tank on the same place to protect it. All AIs fughter were destroyed trying to attack the bomber. In this game Stealth fighters destroyed fortified MechInf without problem, so after two attempts I did not produce any bombers. Another disadvantage is that stealths are very expensive and strike only once in two turns. Well trained howies attack twice a turn and cost one third.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

As I have repeatedly said from the beginning this set up was unfamiliar to any good player, not just conquest players. Good players do not end up in modern age at par with AI.

It's not just being on par with the AI. It's that the whole setup is somewhat unnatural. Because of the things Duke had to do to manufacture the scenario you must deal with situations that you'll just never find in a "real" game: Medium-large cities but with no aqueducts or sewers; no engineers at all; no railroads - even on multi-sheild squares; Manhattan built, but no SDI's; quite a few valuable wonders left unbuilt long after their techs would have been discovered. You have to decide how much of this infrastructure you want to build, keeping in mind the time constraints of (1) GOTM scoring favoring early finishes (2) an iminent AI SS launch and (3) the spectre of nuclear warfare. Since I wasn't playing conquest, I was much more concerned with (and had much more difficulty with) these types of factors than with the military level of the AI's. My problem was with picking an objective and sticking to it. It just seems "wrong" to be in Demo with a city celebrating with a +6 food surplus and not seeing it grow. I found myself trying to improve things that probably did very little to further my ultimate goals.

And I agree with Peaster, la fayette's experience with (and success with) scenarios would have likely served him very well in understanding how to cope with and take advantage of the setup for this game. But even then, there are some eccentricities about this setup that are probably not common even in most scenarios.

I disagree with your assesment of the Airports. They serve 3 important functions:
1. Transportation; which as you pointed out could be dangerous if the enemy has air units around your route.
2. Trade; if both ends of a trade route have airports the value of the trade route increases
3. Any air unit made in a city with an airport is vet.

I also forgot about the trade impact of Airports on delivery bonuses. I was focusing on 1 and 3 until midway through the game when I started seeing certain cities hit really big payouts while similar sized cities going almost the exact same distance did not. There were quite a few cities that would have more than paid for the cost of rushing an airport with just one freight delivery. In fact, as I get towards the end, a couple airports are being built specifically for a single delivery after estimating the difference in bonus.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Yes for people that only play gotms, but for all players? IMO La Fayette would have felt at home with this GOTM, because he had so much experience with scenarios (and maybe PBEM/MP etc).

Good point. Scenario and MP players would have felt more at home.

Just to check I understand part 1 - the risk of sending a unit from city A to city B depends on the locations of the two cities and on enemy air units ?

As golem already pointed out, that is the common understanding. I do not believe anyone has analyzed this one to know the exact chances.

On comment 3, IMHO the USA needs just 2-3 airports for making vet planes

I agree.

Both you and golem make good points on Stealth bombers vs. Howitzers. As I said my modern warfare experience is limited and it is mostly slow warfare not blitzkrieg (my objective is usually to get rid of a pest, not conquer the world). Furthermore, when dealing with coastal cities destroying their defenses with battleships works better as they can attack multiple times every turn.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I also forgot about the trade impact of Airports on delivery bonuses. I was focusing on 1 and 3 until midway through the game when I started seeing certain cities hit really big payouts while similar sized cities going almost the exact same distance did not.

It is not just the payout that is significantly affected (by a factor of 2?), but also the trade route is more valuable. So building an airport in cities that trade with other cities of yours that already have an airport is also benefiicial.

 

[Dinamo]

I have begun the conquest game and it's seems to be harder than I've imagined. I've conquered quite a lot af cities, but many of them got nuked before I cold built a SDI :-( . Have you any advice for solving this problem?
I've seen "spies with bombs" tactic but for me it's just an answer for a quick fall of a well defended city, not for all of them.
BTW - I prefer howitzers to SB, but not all the way (aprox 80%-20%).

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

It is not just the payout that is significantly affected (by a factor of 2?), but also the trade route is more valuable. So building an airport in cities that trade with other cities of yours that already have an airport is also benefiicial.

True, but when you're half way through a 30-some turn game, increasing a route from +5 to +9 for 15 to 20 turns doesn't have near the impact of increasing a delivery bonus from 450 to 900. The increased routes are a nice kicker, but it probably doesn't justify the 320g price tag on its own, given the time we have. That's why I was focusing more on the bonus.

The real point is that I forgot about the trade benefits altogether.

 

[golem]

I have begun the conquest game and it's seems to be harder than I've imagined. I've conquered quite a lot af cities, but many of them got nuked before I cold built a SDI :-( . Have you any advice for solving this problem?

I am not sure, but in this game AIs nuked me only when I had more than six units in the city.

 

[Andu Indorin]

I am not sure, but in this game AIs nuked me only when I had more than six units in the city.

As for myself, the few times I was nuked involved what seemed to be the "target value" of a city, which was a combination of city size and number of units in or around a city. When the Indians preemptively nuked Bangkok early, the city had only four units, but at size 14 presented a choice target.

Later on, when Kolkata and Arkhangelsk were recipients of counterstrikes, the city's had only three and one units within them respectively; but including units outside, that number was raised to six and six respectively.

I have begun the conquest game and it's seems to be harder than I've imagined. I've conquered quite a lot af cities, but many of them got nuked before I cold built a SDI :-( . Have you any advice for solving this problem?

Early in the game, I avoided capturing cities; and I avoided keeping too many units in any given city. Indeed, I safely "stored" a lot of my units outside the "blast zone" of my cities; lost a few cities, but recapturing them is never much of a problem.

When I finally launched my concerted offensive, I used a traditional blitzkrieg model that emphasized the destruction of the opposing AIs offensive strength (especially targetting their Nukes); and then took out the civilizations wholesale. ...

 

[Andu Indorin]

Quick Game Summary:

2010-2013: NAs ally with EU, US, and China in Jan. 2010; target India and the IS for conquest. Perhaps not surprisingly, the latter two ally against the NAs in Feb. 2010. China declares on Russia, joins NAs against the IS and India, while the NAs join EU and China against Russia; EU declares war on Russia and IS; US joins war against IS. These wars persist throughout the first four years of the conflict. Additionally, in 2011, the US declares war on EU as they contend in North Africa; this eventually leads to the break-up of the NA-EU entente, with the EU eventually attacking at Bern in late 2013. Finally, China declares war on the US in 2013.

US government first to go Fundy, as Pat Robertson takes control in March, 2010. EU, Russia, and China go Fundy during 2012. NAs go Democratic in Aug, 2010.

During the first four years of the war, NA military operations largely limited to the Pacific Rim, securing Vladivostok, Khabarovsk, and Yakutsk by the end of 2011, with the Chinese doing most of the fighting. Bangkok nuked by India in August, 2010 -- resulting in considerable caution on NA military strategy. Kuala Lampur, Jakarta, and Surabaya captured in May to June, 2012 -- the
latter two via Nuke strikes. In Africa, numerous IS cease-fire violations result in many "punative expeditions" against IS forces there, with Khartoum captured in May, 2012; and Cairo captured by the US in September, 2013. NA military losses during four years of "limited war": 13 military units and seven engineers; plus a few spies and four units toasted at Bangkok.

Net gains for AI civs against AI civs through 2013: Rabat and Tripoli, from IS to US; Algiers and Tunis from IS to EU; Minsk from RF to EU, with Kiev disappearing from existence; Guwahati and Chennai (from India) and Dhaka (from IS) to China.

NAs aquire all "essential" techs from allies by mid-2011, and remaining techs (e.g., Recycling, Enviro) via trade by early 2012. NAs build UN (Feb. 2012) and Cure for Cancer (Apr. 2012) in Rio de Janeiro.

NAs establish 22 new cities world-wide plus a pair of "ports" in China by Jan. 2014; and, of course, there was much trading and irrigating for engineer support.

2014: The Year of Decision. Year begins with a bang when, with the fall of Bern imminent, NAs use that city's nuke to take out both IS held Alexandria and US held Cairo; NAs capture Alexandria, IS recaptures Cairo. Bern falls in Feb. Also in Feb., Chinese capture, and Indians recapture Kolkata. With adequate military strength and combat engineers successfully concentrated in southern Africa and the Far East, the NAs -- finally -- commence decisive, unlimited warfare. Let the Howies roll!

Operation Raging Bull -- March, 2014: NAs capture Kolkata, Patna, and Cairo; Indian garrisons eliminated in New Delhi, Kanpur, Bhopal, and Hyderbad -- which contained the entirety of India's Nuclear arsenal ... Chinese capture New Dehli, Indians recapture Chennai from Chinese. And the Russians break their cease fire and attack Cairo, destroying Stealth Ftr and Mech infantry; and then Nuke Kolkata (Marine, Stealth Ftr, Spy, and three Engineers lost) -- damned their hides!

2014, April: Howitzers roll through India, capturing remaining 11 Indian cities; spy discovers two IS Nukes in Islamabad ... city incited to revolt. Nuclear strikes follow against Ankara, Baghdad, Mecca, and Tehran; and the latter three cities are captured before cease fire is called. ... and then predictably broken by the IS, who manage to destroy only one howitzer and one engineer. (EU captures Istanbul)

2014, May: Dubai is nuked, and howitzers eliminate remaining Islamic garrisons in Damascus, Bandar Abbas, Karachi, and Doha; all cities capture to mark the end of the IS-India bloc.

Interlude: May-June, 2014. Engineers work to complete road/railline connection between Bander Abbas and Karachi; Russians break two cease fire agreements, capture Tehran and Ankara. EU breaks cease fire with bomber attacks at Alexandria.

Operation Neitzsche -- July, 2014: Garrisons reduced/eliminated in Tblisi, Astrakhan, Rostov, Voronezh, Kazan, Moscow, and Odessa; Minsk incited to revolt against EU, acquiring SDI and 5 Stealth Bombers, plus a few more units. Stealth Bombers employed to protect Minsk. EU and RF finally ally; two Russian Nuke strikes are thwarted by SDIs at Islamabad and Patna.

August, 2014: NA Nukes take out the RF's Siberian cities, and howitzers clear out the RF's European cities; all are captured. Howitzers roll across the north German plain, as Warsaw, Gdansk, Berlin, Copenhagen, and Amsterdam fall to NA forces. Additionally, garrisons in Belgrade, Budapest, Vienna, Bern, Brussels, and Amsterdam are eliminated. EU Nuclear counterstrike at Arkhangelsk takes out four howitzers, 3 engineers. (Oops!)

September, 2014: Athens, Istanbul, Bucharest, Belgrade, Budapest, Vienna, Rome, Genoa, Bern, Brussels, Paris, Marseilles, and Barcelona are captured. EU Nuke at Paris thwarted by Brussels SDI; but EU paratroopers capture Arkhangelsk.

October, 2014: Remaining nine EU cities are captured, ending the EU-RF bloc.

... and with fire power to spare ... we backstab our loyal Chinese allies ...

Operation Little Red Book -- October, 2014: two emissaries to Americans results first in cancellation of Chinese alliance, and then war with China (with 500g "signing" bonus). New Dehli incited to revolt, resulting in the expected unit windfall from a cancelled alliance: 5 Stealth Bombers, 4 Howitzers, and eight other units. Shanghai also incited to revolt (to weaken Chinese navy); Quingdao, Shenyang, Pyongyang captured to finish destruction of Chinese navy. Garrisons eliminated in ten of seventeen other Chinese cities, including the destruction of China's nuclear arsenal.

November, 2014: Remaining Chinese cities overrun. "We have peace in our time." In terms ground combat -- and excluding Nuclear Strikes -- around 360 enemy units destroyed, at a loss of three engineers and eight military units, for healthy kill ratio of around 32:1. ("War is but the pursuit of economics by other means.")


End Game: 2015-2016 . Quickly shift to peace time production (i.e., engineers and more engineers), as the NAs begin to impose a "democratic" vision on what had become a "fundamentalist" world. Scientists issue their first Global Warming alert even as the last nuclear fallout is cleaned up in January, 2015. In February, 2015, the US launches the SS Alexandria for AC.

Operation Take-Out Hugo -- With the imminent completion of an SDI defense in Savannah, in May 2015, our alliance with US is cancelled and the Hawks come through! Nuclear strikes against Miami (base for the entire US Stealth Fighter Force) as well as Hawaii. Revolts incited in Rabat and Tripoli, resulting in another windfall of units. Nineteen city tour of the capitals of US results in the recall of the US spaceship. Seattle and Anchorage incited to revolt for more "high-shield return" units. In June, Las Vegas captured, as well as mopping up operations against partisans are completed; and the US is reduced to a foothold at the tip of the Florida peninsula. Units lost: 0; Kill ratio: ERROR.

Thereafter, WLKD growth and hunger management. Miami taken out in August, 2016.

***

As an afterthought, in a Space Race game as the US – in what's best described as an exercise of mathematics and economics -- managed an AC landing in Dec., 2010.

 

[Peaster]

As an afterthought, in a Space Race game as the US &#8211; in what's best described as an exercise of mathematics and economics -- managed an AC landing in Dec., 2010

Nice log, but this last comment is the most impressive... Dec 2010 ! Is that a typo?

 

[Andu Indorin]

No typo. As I say, a mathematical exercise.

 

[Peaster]

Ali and I are mathematicians. Wouldn't you like to tell us more ? I don't know a whole lot about landing games, but a landing in 12 turns seems incredible. You must have raised a ton of gold within a few turns, to rush 12 vans for Apollo, then another 30+ for parts. When did you launch ?

In your main game, it seems you were a bit lucky the AI didn't launch ships much earlier, but I suppose you were ready for that.

I have played to June 2011 in my replay and have cracked the NAN, EU and Chinese (meaning several cities have fallen and their army seems de-fanged). My current invasion routine uses mainly Howies, but I have suitcased a few of the more difficult cities. I regret spending 4 turns as Commie since my economy is hurting and over half my vet spies are getting captured before they can nuke.

IMO the X-Pack is a good tool for bleeding the AI defenses in preparation for a larger invasion. And it is nuke-proof. But for the same cost, a squad of Howies is probably faster, so I am still not sure of its strategic value.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I too found the Dec 2010 landing incredible. The fastest possible ship takes 5 turns to reach its target. That means you launched July 2010; a mere 6 turns after you started.

Assuming you launched a 33s8c1m ship; you would need 33*80+2*8*160+3*1*320 = 6160 shields. Add to that 600 for Apollo and you need 6760 shields. America started with about 200 shields production capacity per turn. In 6 turns that would give you 1200 shields. Rushing 5500 shields even at 2.5 g/shield requires 13,750g. Liquidating American infrastruture could raise about 12-13K. Disbanding units and per turn income could supply the rest. So I guess with careful planning and ideal circumstances (no one attacking you) it is possible.

 

[Andu Indorin]

In your main game, it seems you were a bit lucky the AI didn't launch ships much earlier, but I suppose you were ready for that.

None of the AIs really made an effort at building an SS; the Americans only got serious about building the SS after I had conquered the remaining civs. Since I was in conquest mode, I didn't build any SS parts in response to their very limited SS building (which only had resulted from failed efforts at Wonder building); so, I suppose, they had no real incentive to pursue space programs. And the alliance structure seemed to keep them more concerned with fighting war ... And I must admit, when the AI civs first built a few parts in 2012, I was somewhat concerned about my ability get at them in time for a recall.

So I guess with careful planning and ideal circumstances (no one attacking you) it is possible.

In a word, I spent more time making the relevant "shield and gold" calculations and double-checking the work than I did playing the game. As for the ideal circumstances, worked the diplomacy as necessary and so confirmed my hypothesis that the US is more defensible than Europe by eliminating the need for defense. Since you've more or less figured out 90% of how the July launch was achieved, here's the complete notes from the game.

Jan 2010: Alliance with the NAs. We're good to go ...

After examination of trade potential: Disband Rifles for incremental rush builds: Transports in Boston, L.A.; Commodity Freight in New York, Philly, Savanna, Minneapolis, Washington, Detroit, S.F., Honolulu ...

Initial Science produced 171 beakers; ergo, c. 1500 beakers per tech at start ... say, around 4750 beakers for the three techs required for Fusion drive. ....

Tax Adjustment: science to 90%; luxury to 10%

Fire Sale: 13 Police Stations, 9 city walls for 1500 gold.

Total of eighteen rifles disbanded for to jump-start production; also, two
Stealth Bombers disbanded in Houston (to resolve happiness issues, towards Apollo). ...

Slated for completion next turn: Two transports; Six Food Freight for Apollo, and Five Commodity Freight ...

End Turn Cash in Bank: 892g

Indians Revolt; R.F. to War w/ China; and many Wonders are started ...

Feb 2010: Start turn w/ 593 g; S.F. Silk to Honolulu, 179g; Transport Boston heads toward Europe. Disband one Rifle, one Armor. Finish initial round of IRBs: one Transport in NY, two final Food Freight for Apollo, and Five Commodity Freight. 406g left in bank.

Foreign Ministers report: Euros and I.S. are real pissed. ... So, Em. to Indians, gift Plastics, Automobile, and Robotics; Gift I.S. Space Flight, Adv. Flight; save E.U. for next turn ...

Fire Sale: Remaining City Walls and non-essential Airports; end turn w/ 2406g.

E.U. & I.S. go to war; We refuse ambassador from our allies, and they go to war w/ China; E.U. goes to war w/ R.F.

Mar 2010: Laser. Start w/ 2076g.

Foreign Ministers report: Both NAs and E.U. are uncooperative; and everyone except Americans are at war. ... Emissary to NAs, gift Adv. Flight and Nuclear Fission; relations improve to cordial. ...

Eight Food freight into Houston; add 144g to finish Apollo program.

Seven freight -- Boston Dye, N.Y. Oil, Detroit Copper, Minn. Gems, Savannah Coal, Philly Spice, D.C. Gold -- depart from New York for Europe/North Africa, ship chaining with Boston transport in mid-Atlantic. Run into E.U. Submarine outside Lisbon; Boston Dye lands south of Lisbon, prompting emissary from E.U.; better hear out this one ... Offer of Enviro for Steatlh refused; Demand for cancellation of peace treaty with I.S. refused; Demand for 250g ... All things considered, with five freight to deliver on following turns, I pay up, and additionally I gift E.U. Stealth. They are now receptive ... and I'm hoping that'll hold.

Boston Dye to Madrid, 320g; N.Y. Oil to Madrid, 654g. Finances up to 2656g, with next tech finished.

Fire Sale: 12 Courthouses, 8 airports. End turn with 4976g

(I'd love to cut my science budget in favor of money; but I need to wait and see if my transport can get through the Straits of Gibralter ... )

E.U. submarine does NOT sink my transport ... and the NAs revolt.

Apr 2010: Superconductor. Houston builds Apollo. Start w/ 4684g.

Foreign Minister's Report: Everyone receptive to cordial. All to the good. ...

And the Straits of Gibralter are open! Washington Gold to Rabat, 252g, Minneapolis Gems to Algiers, 300g, and transport reaches the Strait of Messina. Plus, Seattle Gold to Honolulu, 216g. Fusion Power is guaranteed. Phase I is complete, and I can start selling off Libraries and Universities.

Ergo, Fire Sale: 13 Universities, 8 Libaries for 2720g, bringing treasury to 8172g.

Commit Honolulu, Los Angeles, and Boston to Module Production; commit Anchorage, Denver, Omaha, and Minnepolis to Component production. Disband and relocate units accordingly. This leaves fifteen cities to produce 45 SS parts in next three turns (33 structurals, 12 components). With one disband, rush buy 15 structurals. Cash down to 3680g.

Taxes to 9.1.0; all Einsteins to IRS men (save one), yielding net income of 892g for next turn.

Total units disbanded: 1 Rifle, 1 Marine, 5 Mech Inf., 4 Stealth Ftrs., 3 Destroyers, 2 Aegis, 2 Subs, and one transport.

NA's to Democracy; good for them! Neither I.S. nor E.U. take out my transport.

May 2010: Fusion Power. 15 aforementioned Structurals. Many hunger warnings (a product of trying to eke out every last unit of gold). Start w/ 4572g. Honolulu Gems to Detroit, 366g.

Transport unload three freight near Belgrade, and they move toward their objective markets; one more turn of good will with the Europeans and I should be golden. Foreign Minister reports E.U. attitude has declined to neutral.

Fire Sale: 11 Libraries, 1 Cathdral, 3 Airports brings treasury up to 6388g.

Disband: 2 Rifles, 11 Mech. Inf, 1 Armor, 3 Stealth Ftr., 4 Destroyers, 2 Submarines, 2 Air Craft Carriers, 1 Transport.

Rush Build: 3 Structurals, 12 components.

1108g left in treasury.

Indians capture Dhaka from I.S.; E.U. Marines, Howitzer advance menacingly on my freight ... but take no further action.

June 2010: Start w/ 2027g. Savannah Coal to Paris, 534g; Detroit Copper to Bucharest, 240g; and Philly Spice to Berlin, 688g ... barely!

After "start up" disbands, purchase cost for remainder of SS stands at 6004g. Four remaining airports, three Offshore Platforms, and one of three remaining Libraries = 1200g, leaving shortfall of 1315g. According to an updated calculation, if I disband the rest of military, I'll need only 155g. So ...

Disband the rest of my military (leaving me with one transport in the Mediterranean), and sell two Courthouses for 160g (bringing total of sold infrastructure to 11,380g).

Rush buy remaining 3 Modules, 4 Components, and 15 structurals.

Taxes to 8.2.0, resolve all hunger/happiness issues.

5g left in treasury.

July 2010: SS Launch. Honolulu and Anchorage to Capitalization; Denver to Palace. All others to Freight production.

Foreign Minister reports NA allies are remain enthusiastic; Russians and Chinese are pissed ...

E.U. captures Minsk.

Aug 2010: Transport escapes Mediterranean on second try. IRB 13 Freight.

R.F. recaptures Minsk.

Sep 2010: IRB seven Freight.

I.S. capture Athens.

Oct 2010: S.F. builds the Hedonistic Gardens; New Orleans builds the Redlight House; and, not to be outdone, the Colossus of Omaha rises out of wheat field.

Three freight plus 200g in New Orleans; four freight, one last transport disbanded, and 300g in New York; and with rush buy, finish palace in Denver.

Emissary to NAs, gift Superconductor; attitude up to Worshipful. Emissary to E.U., gift 200g; attitude up to cordial.

Taxes to 5.5.0

Nov 2010: Capital to Denver; New York builds its world-renowned Public Library; New Orleans builds Dizzy Gillespie's Embassy.

Dec 2010: AC for Alexandria the Clever.

 

[URUWASHI]

PEASTER : " Version 2.42 seems much better than MGE here, with fewer crazy sneak attacks. Making outposts (like Uruwashi's Canary Island one) is probably easier with 2.42 "

I have the 2.42, why will be easier to create outposts??
What are the advantages and disadvantages of 2.42 and MGE

PEASTER : " BTW are turns December and April "oedo years" for this game? [ Golem reported a govt change in June ?? "
Yes , Every 4 turns, April, August and December are OEDO, maybe Golem conquered New York and SOL, then OEDO becomes irrelevant.

PEASTER: " The conventional Howie + Engineer combo seems to work fine, but capturing a city puts 4-8 units at risk of a nuke, before I can build an SDI (which is pretty expensive anyway). "

I dont use Howies, until railroads are built, then Howies can travel several tiles and be effective. When I capture a city ( If a Spy Bribes it ) I immediatly dismantle most of the Obsolete units ( Rifleman, Fighters in this game ) and keep the conquered city with 2 or 3 Units and start a SDI, ( I do not rush it )
IF I dont get Nuked, next turn I will finish the SDI

PEASTER:" Also, golem and Uruwashi seemed to know what they were doing. "

My favorite part of the game is the Caravan / Airport time.
In this game, since is played on Earth and cities where properly placed geographycally
was just easy to create and remember the location of new cities ( Canary Island West Africa, Inverness Northern England ) and quickly determine whitch Freight, should be delivered to what Airport .
For instance If I have a Silk Carvan created in Toronto, and my trade advisor suggest that Rio , Tokyo , Madrid, Paris or Seattle demand Silk , I will look first at the TOP 5 cities ...If Paris is top 5 then it will be first option...then Madrid my second choice , then Seattle ( American ) my third choice , but since is on the same continent...wont pay as much.
An Uranium Caravan, the top Cargo in the game can really get some great Gold if is send to one of the Top 5 cities.In a different continent , and Uranium is the number one Demand ( Uranium, Silk, Coal ) you can get 1300.
I do not think that does matter HOW far a carvan travels, its where is originated and the Demand, I did a research on the Caravan Pay out and came up with some unusual results ( See below, my response to Tim )
Remember a Silk Carvan from Africa to Brussels ( Uranium-Silk-Copper ) , will pay 50% less than a Caravan from Africa to London ( Uranium-Copper-Silk ), even if Silk is the 3rd commodity in London , since they are different continents.

In this Game , Africa-Europe-Asia are continent # 1, while London is on # 16
By my rule South and North American Cargos , will be delivered to any continent EXCEPT American Cities.
Australian and Japanese Cargos- To any Continent ( Except their own Continent )
African Cargos - To the Americas and Japan ONLY
Thats why I build Airports in Canary Island and Inverness, so I can deliver to Oslo, Copenhagen ., Madrid...withing the next turn.
After I run out of the Top Cargos ( Oil , Silk , Dye ) I prefer to built a Stealth Fighter, instead of Hides or Salt Caravans.
I think it takes 32 Turns for commodities to be renewed.



ALI:I Looked at all 3 and made a detailed list of techs, gold, arrow production, shield production, units, woders, and infrastructure.
I did too Ali , what made me go for the NA was that their where spread all over,on the first turn I sold all City Walls in South America, Australia and Africa and built 6 airports- Canada-Australia-Bogota - Tokyo , Buenos Aires and Bern.
Playing any other Civilization ( Europe, or USA ) will imply building Airports in every continent, or use an extensive chain of transports.
I think Bern was the turning point on my decision.
An Oil freight created in Caracas then lifted from Bogota then delivered to Bern and then to Paris in the next turn payed over 400
Ditto with a freight from Hiroshima lifted in Tokyo then delivered to Toronto and then NYork paid 400.
I should have built more airports ( I did on my Conquest game, built 16 by the end of 2010 , Jerusalem ( On the Suez Ithsmus ), Sicily ( southern Italy ) Brunei ( Borneo ) etc...that, allowed me to deliver 5 Caravans per turn at about 1000 to 1400 per turn.
Even on Fundie , the discoveries are made then in a few turns.

ALI " I do my unit of choice is the stealth bomber. It has the highest attack factor (14) of any unit short of missiles. "

I disagree, In this game , I love to use Stealth Fighters, and a Spy.Then a Paratrooper.
Stealth cost 1/2 of what a Bomber Cost, and can attack several times in one turn.
This is my MO using a couple of stealths and a Spy
Spy will investigate the city and find if is a SAM, IF is a SAM then will try to destroy it.
If The spy does not suceed, then Missiles are used to destroy Armor.
For instance on my Conquest game ( Im still playing it ..) Toronto and Montreal had 3 Stealths each , plus 2 spys and a paratrooper, New York had 6 defensive units ( armor , 2 rifleman, 2 missiles , 1 Marine ) and NO SAM.
First Stealth attack eliminates Armor , but operates now at 25%, second Stealth hits NY 4 times, eliminates, Armor, rifleman and Marines and still at a 50 % power...., 2 Cruise missiles are left, then first attacking Stealth ( even at 25 % ) eliminates the 2 Missiles.
Six units are destroyed .Paratroopers take the city.
Also in this case, I use the " 3 square rule ", Montreal has an SDI that protects Quebec and Toronto, as I take New York, New York is also protected by the SDI Umbrella




GOLEM:
I suppose it depends on their number too - in some games I have about 50 percent success with delivering, but sometimes I have no chance - too much fighters was around.

Thats why I like to have several options when it comes to deliver a Freight.
Having several Airports, assure you that you will deliver a Freight, even to a city of your own.
Airlifting a Carvan to a zone of Combat is not a good idea to me.
Chances to make it are 50 %.
I played the NA Nations, Buenos Aires and Melbourne where my cities.
For Instance, having a Oil caravan built in Buenos Aires, that has a demand in Paris , will be better to send that Caravan to Melbourne , IF you are at war with the Europeans.
Remember , after you built a Oil Caravan in Buenos Aires, if is destroyed , you can not create another Oil Caravan in Buenos Aires.
Melbourne may pay less, But if that is you Only option , and will be safe ..why Not ??

.GOLEM " Another disadvantage is that stealths are very expensive and strike only once in two turns. Well trained howies attack twice a turn and cost one third. "

I Agree, Stealth Bombers are WAY to expensive. ( Cost 160 , attack points 14, defense 5 )....A stealth figther ( cost 80 , attack points 8 , defense 4 ) can cause more damage than a a Bomber if the situation is right ( No SAM's ),
A stealth Can attack several times 8 points each time, 2 attacks can eliminate an Armor...2 Stealth Fighters attacking together can raise havoc.
Stealths are rarely lost, unless is a suicide Mission, when you need to eliminate defenders in order to take a city.
Using a Bomber or a Stealth in a city with SAM is pretty much worthless.
The best option then is use Cruise Missiles, even if they only good just once.
Missiles are pretty much guarantee to take an Armor or any Mobile Unit
A stealth Fighter can attack several times and came back to base in the same turn.
A Bomber may be lost in the next turn If a fighter is defending.
I agree with the Howies, except they should be just a tile away, on a road ...the best way to use a Howie to me is if is a Railroad...then they can attack and return home, unless the city attacked is ready to fall on your hands.



TIM: " I also forgot about the trade impact of Airports on delivery bonuses. I was focusing on 1 and 3 until midway through the game when I started seeing certain cities hit really big payouts while similar sized cities going almost the exact same distance did not "

Tim, I am sure you know that Caravans have a financial Impact if you delivered to another continent, another Civ, and IF the Goods are in demand. Distance has an effect, again, and size of receiving city. But are we really correct ...??
....I tried a few options ..and here is what I came up with...and I am still unsure how it works ....

Example 1 ) In the Conquest game, ( my second game ) I had a Gold Caravan from Quito, sent to Bogota then arrived in Tokyo, I had a transport waiting , loaded the Caravan on arrival , and moved my Transport to the Chinese Mainland, saving a turn.
Next turn I checked 2 options- Honk Kong Size 12 - ( 46 Tiles From Quito ) demands Gold- Whuhan size 9 also demands Gold ( 52 Tiles from Quito ) , Gold is the second commodity in demand in Both cities ( Uranium is # 1 ).
Deliver to Wuhan paid 508 - I saved the game and restarted this time deliver the Caravan to Honk Kong- It paid 548

Example 2 )I still have no idea how the AI calculated this:
Same Dye Caravan From Dye to Jerusalem Airport.
All 6 Islamic cities demmand Dye as # 1 Cargo

To Istambul- Population 9- 214 gold
To Damascus- ( 8 )- 216
To Cairo- ( Pyramids ) ( 11 ) - 227
To Baghdag - ( 10 ) - 238
To Alexandria- ( 12 )- 264
To Mecca ( 8 ) - 384

I suppose that Mecca has an Airport...so how we know that ??
Creating Spy's and send them to every city , before we deliver the Cargo, checking if an Airport is built ,will be a possible but overwhelming task

Example 3 ) Same Gems Caravan Maputo to Bermuda- Transported to Gulf of Mexico-
Deliver to Dallas - Size 16 - Paids 336
Deliver to Memphis -Size 8 - Paids 340

Distance from Originating city and is just about the same ( 3 tiles differential ) between them, I guess It is an Airport in Each city, but the city size has no effect on Paid out








DINAMO:I've conquered quite a lot af cities, but many of them got nuked before I cold built a SDI :-( . Have you any advice for solving this problem?

My advice ?? Conquer cities that are covered by the SDI Umbrella.

In my game I built a SDI in Montreal.
Quebec and Toronto are Covered.
I planned to take some American cities ...
Conquer Philladelphia then Washington , then on the same turn conquer NEW York LAST....why ??
Because the AI will launch an attack on the last city conquered ( New York ) and New York is covered by the SDI Montreal Umbrella.
I have played games in which the AI will launch several Nukes to the last city conquered.
The AI was senseless to send 4 Nukes to NY , all where thwarted by the SDI in Montreal. Why the AI wont send one of those missiles to Philly or Washington , knowing that is not SDI ??? Makes no sense to me ....

For instance Bhopal in India is a perfect example. is surrounded by 7 cities , less then 3 squares away.
Conquering Bohpal in India is to me the doorway to conquer the Peninsula.
Building an SDI ASAP after conquering Bohpal will immediatly cover the other 7 cities, then you can take New Dheli ( Capital ), Kampur , Jaipur, etc and all nuclear attacks will be Thwarted by the Bhopal SDI

Dhaka is a great Option if you are attacking from the Chinese side...
If is in Islamic Hands, then Dhaka is to be subverted and Immediatly an SDI could be built covering 3 More cities and a clear passage to Dheli

Andu : Incredible but Fascinating that you landed in 2010. Now that I know the Cargos and demands of the game , I will try to play a second Landing Game as a NA. I dont think that can be accomplished in 2010, but probably early on 2011. The lay out of the game is Great....I will play this game again and again

About La Fayette: I read about the departure of one of our best players, and even If I never met him...I know that we have something in common, many miles away, we were happy and spend our time thinking about a silly game that bond us beyond reallity. If the world spend just a few hours thinking that sometimes, a computer can be you ally , and a game part of you happiness, maybe we all be able to coexist and laught together in a much better world, were wars are just a Game.
Wherever you are La Fayette...GOD SPEED .... ;-)