Yesterday night I tried a little experiment in order to clear this up: I started a little PTW Hotseat with two Civs: Rome (Industrious) and England (Non-Industrious).
By the way, in the following overview (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/infocenter/#civilizations) I found Rome listed as "Militaristic & Commercial", whereas my manual (as well as the Civilopedia) says they are "Militaristic & Industrious". Also, in the infocenter Persia is listed as "Industrious & Scientific", while the manual says they are "Commercial & Scientific". Can someone please correct this?
Anyway, I settled Rome and London on a BG and kept going until they reached size 7. Then in both cases there appeared a second shield in the city tile. So this does not seem to depend on the Industrious treat. One I had changed to Monarchy on the way and the other to Republic. So that doesn't make a difference either. I also switched them back to Despotism, and the extra shield is still there, so PaperBeetle's question (whether you need to be out of Despotism to recover the shield) can be answered with "no".
The third shield in the city tile (the "Industrious treat") does not appear before the city reaches size 13. (In Despotism this third shield is then of course lost because of the "-1 malus".)
So this observation puts my earlier reasoning into a completely different perspective:
For example in the starting position of GOTM70, if we settle on the spot, we have two more BG and the cow. So these three tiles can be worked on while the city is size 1-3, and we don't loose any shield compared to if we would have settled on 1NE and then worked on the cow and the two BGs at 1N and at the original start square. (In this particular case, when settling on the spot, we do loose one commerce, though, because the BG at 1W, which we will work on at size 3, is not at the river, but the original start position is.)
Let's assume the 12 tiles, which are currently not visible, will reveal 2 more excellent squares. Then the city can be up to size 5 and not loose any shield!
This now makes moving the settler a pure waste of time!
The best strategy would be: settle on the spot, keep the city at size <6 while producing settlers&workers, and then after that phase rush it through to size 7. With the cow and being on a river this is possible in just 7 rounds (4 with a granary). So we are looking at a total loss of 7 (or 4) shields, and for this it is really not worth wasting the first move!
I hope this answers the question. Moving the settler in the first round just to get off a BG is almost always a bad idea. It may only be worth it, if that BG is the only good tile within the 21 tiles of the start position. (But in that case you may as well resign and start a new game
)
Lanzelot
By the way, in the following overview (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/infocenter/#civilizations) I found Rome listed as "Militaristic & Commercial", whereas my manual (as well as the Civilopedia) says they are "Militaristic & Industrious". Also, in the infocenter Persia is listed as "Industrious & Scientific", while the manual says they are "Commercial & Scientific". Can someone please correct this?
Anyway, I settled Rome and London on a BG and kept going until they reached size 7. Then in both cases there appeared a second shield in the city tile. So this does not seem to depend on the Industrious treat. One I had changed to Monarchy on the way and the other to Republic. So that doesn't make a difference either. I also switched them back to Despotism, and the extra shield is still there, so PaperBeetle's question (whether you need to be out of Despotism to recover the shield) can be answered with "no".
The third shield in the city tile (the "Industrious treat") does not appear before the city reaches size 13. (In Despotism this third shield is then of course lost because of the "-1 malus".)
So this observation puts my earlier reasoning into a completely different perspective:
- After the city has reached size 7, we don't loose anything anymore.
- When the city is size 1-6, it depends on how many other useful tiles are still available. Because as long as we still have an equivalent tile to work on, we wont miss the BG we settled on, and consequently will not loose any shield!
For example in the starting position of GOTM70, if we settle on the spot, we have two more BG and the cow. So these three tiles can be worked on while the city is size 1-3, and we don't loose any shield compared to if we would have settled on 1NE and then worked on the cow and the two BGs at 1N and at the original start square. (In this particular case, when settling on the spot, we do loose one commerce, though, because the BG at 1W, which we will work on at size 3, is not at the river, but the original start position is.)
Let's assume the 12 tiles, which are currently not visible, will reveal 2 more excellent squares. Then the city can be up to size 5 and not loose any shield!
This now makes moving the settler a pure waste of time!
The best strategy would be: settle on the spot, keep the city at size <6 while producing settlers&workers, and then after that phase rush it through to size 7. With the cow and being on a river this is possible in just 7 rounds (4 with a granary). So we are looking at a total loss of 7 (or 4) shields, and for this it is really not worth wasting the first move!
I hope this answers the question. Moving the settler in the first round just to get off a BG is almost always a bad idea. It may only be worth it, if that BG is the only good tile within the 21 tiles of the start position. (But in that case you may as well resign and start a new game
)Lanzelot
) At that early stage (have just started this weekend) the two lost workers are really important for me, and as I don't think this would constitute cheating, I would like to ask, whether I may reload from the previous autosave.
