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GOTM 70 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Magic_gorter, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    You didn't ask me, but I'm having the opposite experience you had. I've had what seemed to be unusual success in battles. If I had lost as many units as you did, I probably would have given up my attempts to finish. For example, I had something like 8 or 10 units ready to take Karakorum and it fell with the first two attacks. It did not have barracks (At least I assume it didn't since that's what production was set to when I captured it), and they had already sent several troops out toward my stronghold where they got cherrry-picked. I probably wasn't facing vets at that point. Other than capitals, most cities have fallen to diplomats instead of fighting. (Edit to add: This will likely have to change over the end of the game, so my losses may increase)

    I don't think I have faced any walls, and I think I've only faced two pikers so far. Anybody researching feudalism has gone straight to the top of my hit-list to minimize this factor.
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Conquest was my primary plan all along; space ship was plan B. Two simultaneous events made me make my decision. First event was the Spanish finishing Newton a turn before mine would have been ready (without a warning). I had planned to get both Leo and Newton in +1752. After the Spanish stole Newton in 1750, I had 400 shields and the only wonder I could make was the statue of Liberty. The second event was that my early exploration/invasion force found an empty fort in Zulu land and was waiting there for reinforcements when the Zulu placed a catapult and an elephant right next to it. Not wanting to lose my units I immediately revolted an killed the Zulu. The next turn I switched to Fundamentalism.

    I played to 1840 this morning. Zulu and the Greeks are gone. Russians are down to 2 cities. Invasion of Spain has started with 2 of their cities in central America. 2 galleons full of dragoons are heading towards South America to invade Mongols. A bunch of Dragoons are heading towards Chinese on land.

    I do not know how many units I have lost. I can post a count for you later on. But I can tell you the AI, specially the Greeks, put up a valiant fight.
     
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I disagree with your analysis. First of all, 1810 is when he made Leo which requires Invention and 400 shields. He could have made King Richard (Engineering and 300 shields) much earlier. Secondly, while your point about shields above 25 being wasted is literally correct it misses the point in two ways. One: when I have shields above 25 I take citizens off plains and shielded grass and put them on water gaining an extra arrow. It also allows me to ignore forests and mined hills in favor of arrows. Two: with shields in the neighborhood of 34 I make wonders (such as Newton) directly instead of building vans. 27 is good for building the supermarket instead of rushing. 27 & 32 are good for university and stock exchange.

    On the other hand what do you get for Leo? Your units, which is typically 1 settler, 1-2 ships, and 1-3 defenders, upgrade cost free. Since the typical unit costs 40 shields (and you can get 20 back by disbanding it) you need to upgrade 20 units to recover the 400 shields you put into Leo. This ignores the advantage of ships upgrading away from your city and your none units. But given the small numbers of both the advantage is not much.

    I do not believe I have ever built Leo in an OCC game. I build King Richard occasionally, 30%-60% of the time.
     
  4. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Good point.
    Hmmm. Unless I am really pressed for sheilds, I will generally already be doing this, unless I'm in a major van/wonder building phase where gold and sheilds become the priority for a very short time. In an OCC game, the limiting factor for completing the game is almost always science and not production so when push comes to shove, I'll already be working on the higher trade squares. Also, he was very close to size 21, so this factor is somewhat minimized.


    Well, Newton was already built. As for the improvements, I can see building a supermarket in 3 turns w/ 27 production, but spending 5 turns to build University seems like a long time to me. I'd generally rather rush improvements since they only cost 2g/s whereas vans cost roughly 2.5g/s and the real replacement cost if you don't have enough of them is 4g/s. Then again, I almost never have 27-32 sheilds production when those items are being built so it's not an issue. I guess this goes along with my point that IF you are going to build KRC, you should do it much earlier in the game so it can help with those wonders and improvements.

    I would only build Leo if I was already in a sheild-heavy city and knew I would have van production to burn (or an ugly diplomatic/military situation) and a lot of non units. The key is not a direct sheild savings...its giving you something that you can't really get any other way, instant non-engineers and boats. At the very least the replacement cost of these is not the 40s to rebuild them because those aren't NONs -- It's the dips and bribe money to go get new, upgraded ones.

    Non-engineers, because of their food savings, can shave real turns off your research by allowing more einsteins. If you have a city with exactly 32 base shield production, you can't afford to have any supported units and still get to 80s production for the structurals which increases the cost of your SS in vans/gold considerably, or you would have to terraform some food/trade producing terrain into sheild producing terrain again putting your timeline for research at risk.

    Neither approach is wrong, just different perspectives.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Amen. This is indeed the key point.
     
  6. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Yes, I pretty well built Darwin ASAP
    Thats a good idea (to delay), tech was pretty rough with a .5 multiplier.. In regular games I built it right away to get the tech for Hoover but I'm thinking a delay might be usefull here too, if you have caravans ready to trade to get tech. I'm still not used to having the better tech from actually trading!
     
  7. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    :blush: Well, I AM interested in your game, of course, but you haven't posted very much about it yet. I had forgotten you were playing for conquest. Well, I hope you continue to have better luck than I did!

    @Ali: You can always find out how many losses you've had. Just open your Defense Minister Screen and click Casualties. I've sometimes had doubts that it is 100% accurate, and am not sure if it incudes losses on sunken boats, losses from lack of support, bribes, etc.
     
  8. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    I opted for the One City this month as well; sent the partials in a few days ago & finished this evening. Having a couple of mountains slowed some of the tech (duh!), but was able to wear then down to mined hills for ample production during the spaceship phase.

    I generally don't tech gift for the sake of research, so my launches are later than the experts -- I like having a larger safety margin.

    some key dates:

    Monarchy in 425 BC (discovered it in 800 BC, but forgot to revolt.)
    Colossus in 125 BC
    MPE in 600 AD (No, never folded in the None Settler -- he was busy for many, many years.)

    660 -- Ally with D (my friends throughout the rest of the game.)

    Was really pressed with Shakes & Cope's

    1100 -- Complete Cope's
    1120, 1140 first couple of trade routes (all the trade was with F -- close enough for my slow boats, and reasonably good payoffs (limited by tech anyway.)
    1220 -- Complete Shake's

    1380 -- Size 8 (1340 become Republic, and start the growth stuff.)
    1560 -- Size 20 (third route in 1500.)
    1710 -- complete INC
    1768 -- Pop out my first Eng
    1796 -- Democracy
    1822 -- Lose two Eng due barb outbreaks over the recent years -- but far away spend major amounts of coin to acquire two Non Eng & a Non Rifle (about 900+ each circa 1850 or so -- but then again a delivered Truck of demanded silver to therm yields 940 in coins & beakers, so there is justice after all.)
    1838 -- Lose MPE as E discovers Commy go around with a boat and dips later to get embassies with everyone.
    1868 -- discover Auto -- am getting a tech every four turns nowadays
    1890 -- Size = 26 (Max, but doesn't stay that way for long.)
    1896 -- Barbs pop up & slay my two non Eng! (Rats -- lose my Non Settler as well. Have to grow an Eng to deal with pollution.)
    1902 -- Discover AF
    1911 -- Complete Apollo (after discovering SF last year.)
    1934 -- Launch, ... land 15.7 years later.
     
  9. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    It will record all the units lost in a stack of land units or on a boat if they died as a result of combat. If they lose support are are onboard a trireme that is lost at sea thay are not recorded as losses.
     
  10. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    I'll keep going on this game, but at the rate I'm going I don't know if I will be done in time for it to "count", even with Duke extending things. I've tried to use Ali's status format this time. (Note: I've already spotted some cut and paste errors in these. Hopefully I've caught them all, but no guarantee they are completely accurate.)

    Status at -500
    Population: 0.11M; Cities: 5; Trade routes: None; Government: Monarchy
    Treasury: 94g; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 8; Production: 15MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None
    Units: Settlers: 2; Warrior: 1; Trireme: 2
    No Contact with other civs


    Status at 1 AD
    Population: 0.3M; Cities: 10; Trade routes: None; Government: Monarchy
    Treasury: 202g; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 14; Production: 31MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: HG, MPE
    Units: Settlers: 1; Warrior: 2; Horse: 1, Trireme: 2
    Power Moderate
    Bs: 5 cities, 10 techs (cordial allied)
    Cs: 4 cities, 9 techs (Enthus Allied)
    Ds: 8 Cities, 9 techs (Enthus Allied), Colossus
    Es: 7 cities, 11 techs (Enthus Allied), Pyramids
    Fs: 5 cities, 13 techs(Enthus, Peace)
    Gs: 6 cities, 10 techs(Enthus, Allied)

    Status at +500
    Population: 0.64M; Cities: 21; Trade routes: 2F Government: Monarchy
    Treasury: 109g; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 20; Production: 72MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: HG, MPE, LH
    Units: Settlers: 1; Warrior: 9; Trireme: 9 Horse: 1; Crusaders: 9; Dip: 2; Caravan: 6
    Power Supreme
    Bs: 7 cities, 11 techs (Receptive peace)
    Cs: 4 cities, 13 techs (Uncoop Allied), GL
    Ds: 12 Cities, 11 techs (Cordial Allied), Colossus
    Es: 9 cities, 16 techs (Enthus Allied), Pyramids
    Fs: 5 cities, 15 techs(Neutral, Peace)
    Gs: 8 cities, 11techs(Uncoop, Allied)

    Status at +1000
    Population: 2.1M; Cities: 38; Trade routes: 4D2F (Domestics were the 2F last time, but city was taken over) Government: Monarchy
    Treasury: 653g; Cost per turn: 4; Total advances: 22; Production: 167MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: HG, MPE, LH, Mike's, GL(captured), GW
    Units: Settlers-4; Warrior-6; Phalanx-8; Archer-3; Pikemen-4; Horse-1; Elephant-1; Crusaders-34; Trireme-28; Dip-7; Caravan:3
    Power Supreme
    Bs: 8 cities, 15 techs (Neutral peace)
    Cs: Eliminated
    Ds: 16 Cities, 13 techs (Receptive Peace), Colossus
    Es: 11 cities, 19 techs (Enthus Allied), Pyramids
    Fs: Eliminated
    Gs: 6 cities, 15 techs (Uncoop, War)


    I'm currently in the late 1300s. and down to the 2 biggest civs. I'm starting to make serious inroads on the D's (N. America) with a two-pronged attack from the Pac. NW (units from china) and up the Mississippi (units from S. America), but haven't even started with the Es (Europe) yet. I am still woefully understaffed in Europe, so it will take me a while to finish things off. I got a late start in Europe because the Bs were working on Feudalism so instead of my original plan of going from India to Europe, I went to Africa instead.
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    +1802 Greeks kill musketeer and crusader defending Corinth. Mongol Knight killed in attack on Sverdlovsk. Greek Frigate bought for 642 to help save Corinth from falling back into Greek hands. Frigate kills wounded Greek Frigate and Greek catapult. Zulu Ibabanago razed by phenomenal crusader who stood there turn after turn knocking out its defenders despite being severely wounded. 2 Russian and 1 Mongol unit killed. Ironclad kills Russian pikemen allowing the capture of Riga for 26. Tahiti founded. Dye (from science city) and Beads to Mongol Samarkand for 459 and 160.
    +1804 Greeks and Russians each kill a Crusader. Ironclad sinks Mongol caravel and 2 units aboard off the west coast of Africa. Another Ironclad sinks Zulu trireme. 2 Russian and 2 Greek units killed. 1 Crusader lost. Silk to Mongol Karakorum for 488. Domestic offshore Gold for 68.
    +1806 2 Crusaders and 2 Knights lost in attacks on Greek cities. 1 Zulu, 1 Greek, and 3 Russian units killed. 1 Knight lost. Silk to Mongol Shangtu for 644. Zulu elephant turned None bought for 88 to save my diplomat.
    +1808 Greeks kill a crusader. Explosives -> Theology -> Leadership -> Economics. Darwin built. Spice to Mongol Shangtu for 644. Domestic offshore Wool for 64. 1 Zulu, 3 Russian, and 6 Greek units killed. 1 Catapult and 1 Dragoon lost. Delphi captured for 133 and Library.
    +1810 Chinese build Eiffel. Greeks kill 3 Dragoons. Russians kill a dragoon and a musketeer. Silk to Mongol Basra for 248. Domestic offshore Spice, Cloth for 70, 72. Vet Ironclad kills 3 defenders of Moscow. Dragoons kill the last defender losing one dragoon in the process. Moscow captured for 133, marketplace, and aqueduct. 1 Russian and 1 Greek unit killed. Railroad -> Mongols -> peace. Zulu Chinan bought for 220. Got 14, archer, settler.
    +1812 Greeks and Russians each kill a dragoon. Domestic offshore Cloth for 94. 2 Russian and 5 Greek units killed. Bangeladesh founded. Zulu Tientsin bought for 378. Got 23, 2 defenders, 1 settler, marketplace, and aqueduct. Domestic offshore Silver for 94.
    +1814 Russians built a new capital in Yakutsk. Bach built. Barbarian Frigate and 5 units aboard sunk. 4 Greek units killed. Defenseless Greek Sparta captured for 288, Granary, Marketplace, and Aqueduct.
    +1816 Russians kill a Dragoon. Silver to Mongol Karakorum for 174. Domestic offshore Copper for 79. Zulu Umtata bought for 265. Got 18, 2 defenders, and barracks. Zulu civilization destroyed. Losing one dragoon the 3 defenders of Athens are killed and the city captured for 211, barracks, library, bank, and Oracle. 2 Greek and 4 Russian units killed. Russian Krasnoyarsk captured for 42 and aqueduct. Russian Novgorod bought for 410. Got 49, 3 units, and 3 structures. Tokyo founded.
    +1818 Greeks and Russians each kill a dragoon. Russian Vladivostok bought for 316. Got 40, 2 units, and 2 structures. Russian Smolensk bought for 539. Got 65, 2 units, and 4 structures. 5 Greek units killed. Madagascar S founded.
    +1820 Greeks kill a dragoon; Russians an archer. 4 dragoons killed in attack on Russian Odessa; only one defender killed. 1 Russian and 5 Greek units killed. Silk to Greek Knossos for 160. Greek Knossos bought for 1353. Got 278, 3 units, 2 settlers, 5 structures, and Sun Tzu. Greek Thermopylae bought for 1080. Got 200, 3 units, and 5 structures. 11 barracks sold.
    +1822 Russians kill a dragoon. Silk to Mongol Nishapur for 332. Russian Odessa bought for 584. Got 81, 3 units, 4 structures.
    +1824 Economics -> Metallurgy. 2 Musketeers and 1 dragoon lost. 2 Greek units killed. Greek Argos bought for 1023. Got 267, 6 structures, 3 units, and one settler. Domestic offshore Hides for 74.
    +1826 Russians kill my diplomat. Adam Smith built. 3 Greek units killed. Dragoon lost. Russian Minsk bought for 552. Got 81, 3 structures, 3 units, and 2 settlers.
    +1828 2 Greek defenders killed and 1 dragoon lost to capture Greek Mycenae for 151, Granary, marketplace, and aqueduct. Russian unit killed.
    +1830 Domestic offshore Silver, Silk (to science city) for 94, 216. 3 Greek units killed. Greek Herakelia razed. Ironclad sinks Spanish caravel and turns vet. They activate their alliance with Mongols and have them declare war on me.
    +1832 Barbarians capture defenseless Madagascar S. 2 Mongol and 1 Spanish units killed. Silver to Mongol Shangtu for 350. No-longer-demanded Dye to Greek Pharsalos for 32. Domestic offshore Hides, Coal for 90, 120. Greek Pharsalos bought for 165. Got 122, 4 units, and 6 structures. 3 Russian defenders of Yakutsk killed and the city captured for 83 and city walls.
    +1834 Silk to Mongol Aleppo for 464. 2 Greek defenders killed to capture Ephesos for 74 and 3 structures. Greek civilization destroyed. Belawan founded. Silk to Spanish Calatrava for 108. Spanish Calatrava captured after its 2 defenders are killed for 71 and 2 structures.
    +1836 Silk to Mongol Khorasan for 388. 2 Spanish units killed.
    +1838 Metallurgy -> Conscription. Hanoi and Ningsia founded. 2 Russian units killed. Russian St. Pete bought for 180. Got 29, 3 units, 1 settler, and 4 structures. Domestic offshore Gold, Silk for 144, 218. Dye to Mongol Aleppo for 216. 2 Spanish units killed to capture Cartagena for 42 and aqueduct. Madagascar S bought back from barbarians for 52. Got 1 Knight. Three more barbarian Knights are on the island. Knight killed in attack on barbarian. Frigate finishes off wounded barbarian.
    +1840 Spice, Silk to Spanish Naples for 252, 156. Domestic offshore Copper, Coal for 38, 177. 2 Spanish units killed.
    +1842 Spanish kill a caravan. Mongols and Russians kill a unit each. Barbarian attack on Madagascar fails. Ironclad kills last barbarian Knight in Madagascar and turns vet. Kunming and Irkutsk founded. Spanish Naples bought for 795. Got 52, 1 settler, 2 units, and 2 structures. Domestic offshore Dye, Silk for 98, 142.
    +1844 Spanish kill 2 units. Chinese discover Industrialization and want to sell it to me for the modest price of 9900! I demanded tribute; they declared war. I steal Industrialization from them. Silk to Spanish Granada for 336. Domestic offshore Silk for 132. Mongol settler turned None bought for 632. Chinese dragoon killed. Attack on Chinese Anyang fails: 2 dragoons lost, only 1 musketeer killed. Chinese Tatung bought for 1692. Got 111, 3 units, and 5 structures. Hawaii founded. 7 Spanish units destroyed. T2L4S4.
    +1846 Spanish kill my explorer in Africa. Recently purchased None settler survives a Spanish chariot attack. Chinese kill a dragoon. Conscription -> Corporation. Tibet, Angola, Aswan, and Congo founded. Russian settler turned None bought for 188. 2 Spanish units killed. Domestic offshore Coal for 215.
    +1848 Spanish lose 3 units attacking me. Russian Kiev bought for 116, got 19, 2 units, and 3 structures. Domestic offshore Wool for 126. No longer demanded Silk to Spanish Barcelona for 76. Salt to Spanish Leon for 134. 7 Spanish units killed. 1 Dragoon lost. Spanish Leon captured for 132 and 3 structures. Spanish Pamplona bought for 2310. Got 103, 3 units, and 6 structures.
    +1850 Spanish steal Conscription. Chinese get it too through Great Library. Spanish and Mongols each kill a unit. Madagascar N founded. 2 units lost to kill 2 Russian defenders of Tblisi and capture the city for 86 and 2 structures. Russian civilization destroyed. 2 Chinese, 3 Mongol, and 1 Spanish units killed. 3 Dragoons lost to kill 6 defenders of Mongol Karakorum and take over the city for 111, 3 structures, and Great Wall. Mongol capital escapes to Tabriz. Mongol Bokhara bought for 833. Got 62, 2 settlers, 3 units, and 4 structures. Otaru founded. Domestic offshore Wine for 107. T1L4S5.

    Status at +1850
    Population: 21.67M; Cities: 99; Trade routes: 110D23F; Government: Fundamentalism
    Cost per turn: 191; Total advances: 50; Production: 513MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Colossus, Lighthouse, Oracle, Great Wall, Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, King Richard, Magellan, Shakespeare, Sun Tzu, Leo, Statue, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin
    Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 49 Engineers (1 None), 3 Archers, 1 Pikemen, 2 Musketeers, 75 Riflemen, 72 Dragoons, 1 Caravel, 10 Frigate, 5 Ironclad, 8 Transport, 38 Diplomat, 50 Caravans, 1 explorer.
    Russian: Destroyed by me
    Zulu: Destroyed by me
    Spanish: 24 cities, 33 techs; War with me, allied with Mongols; Hanging Gardens, Newton
    Chinese: 11 cities, 46 techs; War with me; Pyramids, Great Library, Eiffel
    Greeks: Destroyed be me
    Mongols: 13 cities, 35 techs; War with me, allied with Spanish
     
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Peaster, here are my losses so far:
    2 Warriors, 1 Phalanx, 3 Archers, 1 Legion, 1 Pikemen, 8 Musketeers, 2 Riflemen, 16 Crusaders, 18 Knights, 33 Dragoons, 2 Catapults, 1 Frigate, 1 Ironclad, 3 Diplomat, 2 Caravans, 1 explorer.
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Tim, your status at both -500 and +1 are amazing. How did you manage to build so many cities while buidling wonders?
     
  14. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Well, Peaster had 16 cities to my 10 cities at 1ad. I find that much more impressive. I can never push settlers out and find spots for them that quickly.

    It comes down to a lot of RBing and rapid movement of the settlers to a sheild producing destination. Two of those first 5 cities are such that they won't grow beyond size 2 (since I won't be spending turns to improve them) - one on the Eastern tip of our starting island (gives a couple shields, and some trade arrows.) and one in NE australia that works a buffalo. I didn't have any early barb visits so I didn't have to invest in defense.

    I don't generally apply shields directly to wonders in the early game - that way I can pump out settlers as long as possible, and then I IPRB the vans when they are needed. It's the basic principle behind early rapid expansion (I wasn't doing strict ICS, but close) - I get multiple cities contributing small amounts instead of just one doing all the work. Once I got trade, I switched production in 4 cities that were already working on settlers to vans and spun up MPE. I was still small enough that with tech gifts I got alliances and used gift money (I netted about 250g in initial talks after paying tribute to a couple) and max taxes to rushbuy the vans for HG in those same 4 cities knowing it was going to be a tight race. Those same 4 cities built almost nothing but vans the whole game while the outer cities handled the expansion and military.

    Even then I barely made it. I was going to try to move HG to a different city than where I eventually built it, but I got the warning it was about to be built. In fact, the last van for it had to be disbanded instead of being put fully toward the wonder because there was no road or boat to move the van out and back into the city in time. The next turn after I built the Gardens, both Colossus and Pyramids were built by AIs
     
  15. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    Ouch! IIRC that's even more than I lost, but I guess your opponents have gotten past the phalanx/warrior era by now, and you can't expect to walk over them.

    @Tim: Building HG was a major coup IMO. Our civ sizes seem pretty similar after that, but I was wasting lots of resources on unhappiness. You have gotten off to a good start in conquering the AI's. For me, the D's were the hardest civ to get to (though some others "fought harder").
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    True. The major difference between your conquest and mine is that yours happened a lot earlier. I had a very slow start and did not feel I was ready for conquest till 1750. My losses though significant are immaterial compared to the size of my army and my empire's production capacity. In fact, I stopped producing dragoons a few turns ago since I have such a big inventory of them I doubt they will all be used. (72 dragoons, 48 AI cities left.)

    I started my conquest in 1750. By 1600s the AI had not only discovered Feudalism but also Chivalry. I was the only one with Gunpowder till 1790s when the Chinese developed Railroad and were only willing to trade it to me for Gunpowder which I did. I desperately wanted Railroad to build Darwin and advance my tech which was stagnant since I switched to Fundamentalism in 1750. Fortunately, they did not have contacts with many others so Gunpowder did not spread quickly. So I fought mostly against Pikemen and Knights with some musketeers here and there.

    Spanish just stole Conscription from one of their former cities that I conquered in 1850. This may slow down my conquest significantly. I just started researching Tactics in 1851. But even Cavalry are no match for Riflemen behind city walls.
     
  17. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    Could be a very interesting situation. You might attack the Spanish/Chinese ASAP with all you've got, before they can build many riflemen. Or build hordes of dips first, to take down walls. Or wait for better attacking units, like Howitzers, though that could take a looong time. Maybe there is an obvious answer when you look at your save, but it doesn't sound like an easy decision from here!
     
  18. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    You could also just focus your military efforts on the capital and incite the rest, but that may require significant trade deliveries to muster up enough cash.
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I played till late 1860s over the weekend. Both Chinese and the Spanish (but not the Mongols) started making riflemen and vet riflemen behind city walls are a big challenge for cavalry. I lost most of my 70 odd cavalry and had to make some more at the trouble spots.

    As Tim suggested my strategy was to go for the capital and buy everything else using my big treasury. It did not quite work that way.

    Chinese capital fell easily because it had only one defender. Later I found out that their border cities had at least 3 defenders. They were not expecting me that deep in their territory but thanks to their great railways I managed to skip their border cities and strike at Beijing. At that point I was elated and started making as many diplomats as I could at their border to buy the rest of their empire. That is when they pulled a great one on me: they switched to Democracy! I had to start producing cavalry again to build my European regiment and go after their cities one by one in a dragged out war which just ended (in late 1860s).

    Spanish had plenty of cash and as soon as Madrid fell their capital fled to Malaga and then a second time to another city. This last move cost them all their cash. After the fall of their third captial I have been mostly buying their cities but they had plenty to begin with (well over 20). At this point there are only 3 left: 2 in carribean islands and one in Nova Scotia.

    Mongols did not present any significant problems. I have reduced them to 1 city using a combination of cavalry and spies. I am going to finish them off last because they are my key civ.

    As soon as I finished the Chinese (a turn or two ago) I switched to Democracy. It is still going to take me a few turns to finish off the Spanish because I have only one ship with one spy on it close by.
     
  20. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I'm surprised to read how many of those playing this GOTM had military difficulties because for me this game was characterized by overwhelming military domination almost from the start. I conquered the world in 1908 because I was too lazy to launch a spaceship - in 1908 I had only two techs left to research until future techs and could very easily have landed a spaceship in 1930 and probably significantly earlier. In the end I was attacking with howitzers, stealth fighters, spies, paratroopers, battleships, engineers and armor against musketeers, ironclads, diplomats, dragoons and catapults :D.

    Since I started far behind the AI civs I decided not to try for any of the early wonders and focused on expansion instead by settling the neighboring islands and Australia. I then focused on becoming a global superpower by sending out *lots* of triremes with diplomats, settlers and caravans. In the 1100s (AD of course) I was finally #1 in science (I stole some techs but got very few via exchanging techs). In the 1500s I had a primitive shipchain to the Zulus and was sending caravans there. I also didn't build my first wonder (Mike) until the 1500s and immediately switched from monarchy to republic (perhaps I should have done so earlier despite not having Mike). This was followed by WLTP and I quickly became #1 in population.

    In the mid-to-late 1700s I had explored most of the map and knew the location of all of the AI civs. A shipchain to the Zulus was operational and I was churning out caravans. Near 1800 I switched to democracy since by then I had Bach. In the early 1800s I was a global superpower with colonies on the small islands east of Africa (to keep an eye on the Russians), in the Falkland Islands (to keep an eye on the Mongols) and had added a shipchain to Spain (I had a total of 15 galleons). I had added several important wonders like Magellan and Leo and was far ahead of everyone techwise (researching chemistry). In the 1840s I had added a colony in the Canary Islands and was engaged in a limited war in Central America with the goal of capturing/bribing two Spanish cities and founding a canal city to reach the big, Spanish cities on the Atlantic coast of North America with caravans. I had 21 galleon and lots of caravans. Around this time I discovered railroad.

    In the 1860s focused military operations started, later greatly increasing in scope: I wanted some wonders so I bought the Chinese city of Tatung (Adam Smith). Apart from this I mainly focused on trade and science, had about 30 transports and once I discovered automobile (=>superhighways) near 1880 I acquired one tech per turn for the remainder of the game. At this time the scope of the military operations quickly increased, I eliminated the Zulus in the 1880s and thanks to the shipchains I didn't need a very big army, I could transport my troops across the entire map in one turn, from China to Greeks and to Spain etc. I built more armor than usually, the AI cities were so poorly defended (pikemen and phalanxes) that I didn't have to wait until I could build howitzers.

    In the late 1890s I was attacking everyone by moving units globally back and forth across the map; in 1900 no AI civ had a capital :D. The final turns were just a question of mopping up as quickly as possible and celebrating to grow my cities.

    All in all a far easier game than I expected at the start. My military casualties:
    Settlers: 2
    Engineers: 1
    Warriors: 1
    Legions: 1
    Pikemen: 1
    Musketeers: 1
    Riflemen: 1
    Crusaders: 1
    Knights: 1
    Dragoons: 2
    Cavalry: 1
    Armor: 1 (due to a stupid mistake)
    Catapult: 1
    Destroyer: 1
    Cruiser: 2
    Diplomat: 3
    Spies: 3
    Freight: 1

    A very low casualties count, at least by my standards.
     

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