GOTM 70 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

I played till -500 at the begining of the month and then left the game for about 3 weeks. Now I am at +500.

A small part of this 3 weeks away was spent experimenting to see whether I would have been better off keeping my None settler or using it to build a second city as I did. I played several comparison games to -500 and finally concluded that in this setup keeping the None settler would have been advantageous because of the size of the island and the immediate need for improvements such as road on banana and mine on hill.

I built my first city at the starting location and the second one on the 4 special site which unfortunately was on jungle. I opted to expand to islands to my east to take advantage of the whales. The problem was all those were jungles as well. Those jungles and the barren lands of Australia (my next expansion destination) slowed down my expansion a great deal.

Another big impediment to expansion was the decision to start on a wonder soon. I got Colossus in my science city in -0050; Marco in 360.

I have so far had 2 encounters with barbarians. The first one, in -500, cost me a few turns of expansion because I had to rush my trireme back as it was about to plant a settler. Since I had little defense I brought one of my 2 settlers back to serve as a tile-holder (to prevent barbarian landing). The barbarian trireme attacked mine and fortunately lost. My second encounter was in central Australia in 400s. It cost me 61g to buy an archer only to lose it and a size 1 city the next turn. Fortunately a puny warrior killed the slightly wounded barbarian arhcer before it could cause more harm.

My big shock came when I finished Marco in 360. I was pathetic, and half my rivals had more cities than I! They were all hostile towards me too. It took me quite a bit of tech gifting over a few turns (I was cut off by several of them) to get 4 maps and all the techs I needed (and some I did not). I have traded maps with all but the Spanish and Zulu. But I know where they are because of their contacts/wars.

I originally intended to play this as a war game because of the 50% tech penalty. However, because of the late start (-2000) and the poor starting location, I decided to go for a science city. Now I am having doubts because of the size of my rivals and wonder if I should try to win by space ship. The fact that I built the science city allows me the luxury of having that choice.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-0950 Chinese start Pyramids.
-0750 Mapmaking -> Currency.
-0550 Spanish start Hanging Gardens. First Trireme built.
-0500 Currency -> Trade. Barbarian trireme near homeland. Phalanx rush bought. My trireme drops one settler off and rushes back for help with another settler as tile holder to prevent barbarian landing.

Status at -500
Population: 0.06M; Cities: 2; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 7; Production: 9MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders:
Units: 2 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 1 Trireme.
Russian: No contact
Zulu: No contact
Spanish: No contact
Chinese: No contact
Greeks: No contact
Mongols: No contact

-0475 Barbarian Trireme and 3 units aboard die in attack on my trireme. Wollongong founded on jungle at nearby island with 2 whales.
-0350 Chinese build Pyramids.
-0250 Trade -> Writing
-0225 Greeks start Colossus. Mine is just over half done.
-0125 Zulu also start Colossus.
-0050 Colossus built.
-0025 Writing -> Literacy. T7L0S3.
+0001 Spanish build Hanging Gardens.

Status at +0001
Population: 0.12M; Cities: 3; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 9; Production: 15MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus
Units: 3 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 1 Phalanx, 1 Trireme.
Russian: No contact
Zulu: No contact
Spanish: No contact; Hanging Gardens
Chinese: No contact; Pyramids
Greeks: No contact
Mongols: No contact

+0040 Australia NE founded.
+0160 Narooma founded.
+0240 Zulu build Lighthouse.
+0320 Mongols build Great Wall. T7L3S0 to prevent Literacy from being discovered when I know the Chinese who are building Great Library must have it.
+0340 Trade city of Goolagang celebrates.
+0360 Marco built. Everyone is Hostile towards me! and my power is pathetic.
Chinese(5), Zulu(3), Greek(4), and Spanish(6) demand 50g and declare war when I refuse.
Monarchy, Currency, Trade, Code of Laws -> Russian (1) -> peace, Mysticism, Polytheism, Wheel. At this point they just cut me off.
Mapmaking, Wheel, Monarchy, Currency -> Mongol (2) -> peace, Masonry, maps. Polytheism -> Mongol -> alliance, Warrior Code.
Australia E founded. T7L0S3.
+0380 Power is still Pathetic. Warrior Code, Masonry -> Russian (1) -> maps.
Trade, Mapmaking, Mysticism -> Chinese (5) -> peace, Literacy, Pottery. Cut off.
Australia C founded.
+0400 -> Philosophy. Barbarian Archers appear in southern Australia just as my first diplomat is produced in northern Australia. Power is now weak. Wheel -> Chinese -> maps.
Polytheism, Monarchy, Pottery, Mysticism -> Greek -> maps. Mongol -> 0g.
+0420 Celebes founded at 4 special location.
+0440 Mongol -> 0g.
+0460 Babarian Archer bought for 61.
+0480 Barbarian Archer kills Archer defending Australia C and razes the city. Warrior kills barbarian Archer and turns vet. T3L0S7.

Status at +0500
Population: 0.2M; Cities: 7; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Cost per turn: 1; Total advances: 16; Production: 31MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco
Units: 4 Settlers, 2 Warriors, 1 Phalanx, 2 Triremes, 1 Diplomat, 2 Caravans.
Russian: 5 cities, 14 techs; War with Greek
Zulu: 8 cities, 9 techs; War with me, Chinese, and Greek; Lighthouse
Spanish: 13 cities, 10 techs; War with me; Hanging Gardens
Chinese: 9 cities, 14 techs; War with Zulu; Pyramids
Greeks: 9 cities, 13 techs; War with Russians and Zulu;
Mongols: 8 cities, 12 techs; Allied with me; Great Wall

 

[Peaster]

@Ali: Good suggestions. I've changed the style of my stat reports. If people are interested in more data, I can probably find some in my saves. Maybe in the next GOTM, I'll take better notes.

EDIT: Didn't see your log (page 2 of thread) at first. In both our games, the Chinese started Pyrs in 950BC and the Spanish started HG in 550BC. I'd have guessed that AI wonder-building was mostly random, but if so, this is quite a coincidence!

Without HG, you may not want to build up a huge civ. But that would help in a large-map conquest game (or in a SlowThinker style landing game).

You mentioned replaying/experimenting with the starting position. I'm sure you didn't get any advantage [eg info about AI's etc] from that, but IMHO it's better to do it after the game. See the GOTM 68 spoiler for a discussion of this.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

from that, but IMHO it's better to do it after the game.

You are absolutely right on both counts. However, since at this point in the game I was limited to my own little island I was sure no harm comes from this.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+0600 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Republic. Beads from science city to Greek Sparta establishes the first trade route for 266. Philippines S founded. Philosophy -> Chinese -> Seafaring -> alliance, 125g.
+0620 Power went from weak to pathetic?!!
+0660 Philosophy, Pottery -> Mongol (2) -> Horseback riding (hoping to get money)
+0680 Warrior killed in attack on barbarian archer.
+0700 Wounded barbarian archer killed in attack on my Phalanx making it vet. Chinese (6) -> 0g. Mongol (2) -> 0g.
+0720 Mysticism, Philosophy, Masonry, Code of Laws -> Spanish (5) -> peace, Iron Working. For alliance they wanted me to declare war on my Chinese allies!! Which as far as I can tell have no contact with them.
+0740 Chinese build Great Library. I build my first Library in my science city. Chinese (5) -> 0g. Mongol (2) -> 0g.
+0760 Philosophy, Seafaring -> Greek (4) -> peace. Chinese (5) -> 100g. Iron Working -> Mongol (2)
+0780 Australia C founded. Mongol (2) -> 0g.
+0800 Republic -> Math. Spice from science city to Greek Delphi for 324.
+0820 Salt to Greek Corinth for 184.
+0860 Greeks build Oracle. 3 barbarian legions land in southern Australia. Republic -> Chinese (5) -> Math, 100g.
+0880 Sydney founded.
+0920 First barracks built. Vet warrior lost in attack on barbarian legion. Phalanx kills wounded barbarian legion. Another barbarian legion bought for 82.
+0960 Astronomy -> University. philippines C founded.
+0980 Borneo founded.
+1000 Chinese (6), Spanish (5) -> maps. Math, Republic, Trade -> Greek (4) -> maps. Revolution started. Demanded tribute from Russians; they declared war.

Status at +1000
Population: 0.35M; Cities: 12; Trade routes: 0D3F; Government: Anarchy
Cost per turn: 5; Total advances: 24; Production: 51MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco
Units: 10 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 3 Phalanx, 1 Legion, 4 Triremes, 1 Diplomat, 5 Caravans.
Russian: 8 cities, 15 techs; War with me and Greeks
Zulu: 8 cities, 11 techs; War with me, Chinese, and Greeks; Lighthouse
Spanish: 19 cities, 16 techs; ; Hanging Gardens
Chinese: 11 cities, 20 techs; War with Zulu, Allied with me; Pyramids, Great Library
Greeks: 10 cities, 20 techs; War with Russians and Zulu; Oracle
Mongols: 11 cities, 16 techs; Allied with me; Great Wall

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

@Ali: As promissed here my gamelog (this is to say the first part until 60 AD)
@ everyone: This is my 3rd GOTM and my first log. So any suggestions on keeping a log and general strategies are mostly welcome (especially on tech trading – but that’s for later)

General Plan and ideas:
I want to go for OCC – just to see, whether I could do better than in GOTM 69, in which I tried for OCC as well but failed the spacerace.

This time will even be harder because of the sciencepenalty, but there is a 4 special site, this is a world map and we have direct tech choice. So I thought it over for a couple of weeks, but then decided to go for it.

So my plan for the first part of the game is: Go for Republic straight away, then trade, after that Astronomy. Improvements will be: Temple, 1 Diplomat, Colossus, Library, Market Place

2000: both settlers go to the 4 special site, Warrior exploring island
1850: start irrigation on 171.75 (don’t know whether that’s mathematically worth it, but that gives two additional food and 1 additional trade so my assumption is that it is worth it)
1500: Build OCC, start Temple
1450: > Writing T40 S60 L0
1150: Eldrakan (from now on E) Capital moves to Shanghai
1100: Writing -> Code of Laws
925: Temple build, start Colossus
875 E Capital to Canton
750: Code of Laws -> Literacy
625: OCC grows to size 3
600 Charuvian (from now on C) Capital to Ulundi
575: Dorbians (from now on D) start HG
550: E starts Pyramids
Barbs land near OCC
500 E Capital to Shanghai
475 2nd settler mines grassland to silk (4th special site)
C Capital to Bapedi
450 Literacy -> Republic
425 After barbs attacked my fortified Warrior in OCC and failed, warrior kills barb leader for 150 g
375 C start Pyramids
350 T0 S40 L60 (want to celebrate OCC as this is a good deal if size 4 comes up, even in Despotism)
C Capital to Isandhlwana
325 WLE-Day T0 S60 L40 (got enough money from barb leader)
250 E Capital to Tsingtao
175 Barbs land neyr OCC (which means the WLE Day is cancelled as they land on the silk spot )
The Republic -> Currency
150 size 4, kill Barb leader
125 Big Mistake: I didn’t put on the option: “Wait after each turn” so after my warrior killed the leader, next turn started and I missed the OEDO-year for Revolution.
Gualahans (from now on G) start Colossus
C capital to Hlobane
T0 S40 L60
100 WLE-Day T0 S60 L40
75 Colossus build, start Library
G change to Oracle
T10 S60 L30
50 Start Revolution
E Capital to Bejing
25 Next big mistake – I was so busy writing down the log, I didn’t switch to Republic so the timeout came in and I stayed in Anarchy
1 AD Seville (D) builds HG
60 Barbs land near OCC
Republic installed – finally
T0 S70 L30
Canton (E) builds Pyramids
C change vom Pyr to Lighthouse
Forentians start Lighthouse

Edit:
Status at 60AD: (missed to save at 1AD)
Population: 0.1M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Republic
Cost per turn: 1; Total advances: 7; Production: 7MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus
Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
Batruscans: No contact
Charuvians: No contact
Dorbians: No contact, HG
Eldrakans: No contact
Forentians: No contact
Gualathans: No contact

 

[Ali Ardavan]

1850: start irrigation on 171.75 (don’t know whether that’s mathematically worth it, but that gives two additional food and 1 additional trade so my assumption is that it is worth it)
1500: Build OCC, start Temple

You irrigated with both settlers. I would have built the city first and irrigated with the other one. Replay the first 15 turns to measure how much you would have been ahead.

Building Temple first is a bad idea too; you should have started with Colossus. Temple gives you one content citizen (before Mysticism) which is worth 2 arrows. It costs 1 coin which is at this point the same as 1 arrow. So you gain 1 arrow for an investment of 40 shields. Worse, the benefit does not start till you reach size 4 (first 2 are content at this level and you had the warrior for the third).

125 Big Mistake: I didn’t put on the option: “Wait after each turn” ...

As soon as I start a game I reset that and also the "move unit with mouse" one. Both are so annoying.

As for the log, good job. However, try to do your status updates at regular common times and in a standard format.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+1020 Michelangelo built. Republic established. T4L2S4. timor founded.
+1040 Science city celebrates.
+1080 Barbarian legion killed in attack on mine. Java and Philippines N founded.
+1100 Republic, Math -> Mongol (3) -> Construction.
+1120 Philippines W founded. Barbarian leader captured for 150g. Power is finally inadequate! Chinese (6) -> 150g.
+1140 Seafaring, Writing, Trade, Literacy, Code of Laws -> Mongol (3) -> maps, 0g. T6L3S1.
+1160 Zulu and Russians ally against me! Copernicus built. 2 more cities join the celebration. Silk to Mongol Samarkand for 336. Astronomy -> Chinese (6) -> Bridge Building, 50g. T3L3S4
+1180 3 barbarian legions land near Celebes which is my barrack city and defended by a vet Phalanx. Melbourne founded.
+1200 Barbarian Legion killed in attack on my city. Second one kills my wounded vet Phalanx. Paid them 147 to save the city. University -> Medicine. Taiwan founded. T2L4S4.
+1220 Silk from science city to Mongol Aleppo for 600.
+1240 Australia NC founded. T2L5S3.
+1280 Medicine -> Chemistry. Power jumped to moderate.
+1300 Sumatra founded. New Zealand S founded. T4L2S4
+1320 Power is Strong.
+1340 Greeks build Sun Tzu.
+1360 Domestic offshore Gems for 150.
+1380 Medicine -> Chinese (6) -> Engineering, 100g.
+1400 Domestic offshore Hides for 92.
+1420 Chemistry -> Sanitation.
+1460 Domestic offshore 2xSilk to science city for 360, 348.
+1480 Sanitation -> Navigation.
+1500 Chinese (6) -> 100g.

Status at +1500
Population: 2.17M; Cities: 21; Trade routes: 6D5F; Government: Republic
Cost per turn: 5; Total advances: 31; Production: 92MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus
Units: 14 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 8 Phalanx, 1 Legion, 3 Crusaders, 4 Triremes, 1 Diplomat, 9 Caravans.
Russian: 9 cities, 16 techs; War with me, allied with Zulu
Zulu: 9 cities, 16 techs; War with me and Chinese, allied with Zulu; Lighthouse
Spanish: 21 cities, 19 techs; ; Hanging Gardens
Chinese: 12 cities, 26 techs; War with Zulu, Allied with me; Pyramids, Great Library
Greeks: 11 cities, 22 techs; ; Oracle, Sun Tzu
Mongols: 13 cities, 24 techs; Allied with me; Great Wall

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

@Ali: for the suggestions, hope to meet the standards now

60 AD to 500 AD

+ 80 WLC Day celebrated
+ 100 size 5 T0 S60 L40
+ 120 size 6 T0 S50 L50 1 Elvis
E start MPE !!!
+ 140 size 7 Currency -> Trade T0 S70 L30 (there is no way to get OCC to celebrate any longer)
D start Lighthouse
+ 160 Library build, start Marketplace
+ 220 Trade -> Mysticism (changed plans a little, to research Medicine first before Astronomy)
Marketplace, start Caravan
T0 S80 L20
+ 240 Barbs near OCC
+ 260 Barbs disappear ???
+ 280 size 8
+ 300 Mysticism -> Philosophy
F builds Lighthouse
C change to GW
C capital to Isandhlwana
+ 320 Caravan build, continue
D start Oracle
+ 380 Philosophy -> Medicine -> Masonry
T80 S0 L20
+ 400 Caravan, continue
+ 420 G builds Oracle
E abandon MPE (??? this is very strange, as the travellers reported that MPE was nearly completed, but as I get to know later on, they have some wars going on, so that’s probably why)
+ 480 Caravan, continue
+ 500

Status at 500 AD
Population: 0.36M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Republic
Cost per turn: 3; Total advances: 12; Production: 10MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus
Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 3 Caravans.
Batruscans: No contact
Charuvians: No contact
Dorbians: No contact, HG
Eldrakans: No contact, Pyramids
Forentians: No contact, Lighthouse
Gualathans: No contact, Oracle

 

[Ali Ardavan]

@Ali: for the suggestions

My pleasure.
Your decision to build the marketplace was both untimely and risky. Untimely, in that you should have synchronized it with the celebrations. I would have switched from the library you were building at the time to the Marketplace instead. Risky, in that you started it when a rival had already started Marco. You got lucky, otherwise you would have lost the race on Marco, and on a map this big that would have been a huge disadvantage. You should have put the shileds towards a settler till you get trade, then switch to caravan.

hope to meet the standards now

Looks much better

 

[Peaster]

@MP: Good luck! (I have nothing else to say about OCC)

@Ali - Did you decide whether to play for conquest or landing? When reading your log, I'm curious about what you are trying for in each phase of the game. Also, what are all those settlers doing?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Ali - Did you decide whether to play for conquest or landing?

(I played till 1710 yesterday.)
My goal is still conquest as long as I can achieve it without resorting to nukes; but I am prepared to switch to a landing game should I need to. So far I have been expanding, building, and trading.

I have knights and crusaders and I am currently pushing science to get Steam Engine for Ironclads. My goal is to attack Zulu and Russians first. I have been nominally at war with both. But as soon as I unloaded a couple of units in Zululand they offered a cease fire and I took it partly because of the senate and partly because my units need to do some exploring . I also need to push for fundamentalism. I have a science city with 3 good trade routes and all the wonders except Newton which I expect in a few turns.

I would have started a war earlier but data from Marco showed that I am at a significant disadvantage. I spent a good deal of time at pathetic and weak. Now I am Mighty.

Fighting the other 4 is going to be tougher and I need to advance further in science to get an edge as those guys are fairly advanced and have a good number of cities.

Also, what are all those settlers doing?

Clearing jungles, building roads, mines, and irrigation. I have only cleared jungles for my science city and for my city centers but that is still a lot as most of the pacific islands are jungle.

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

Here we go again. @peaster: Thanks, will need it

520 to 1000 AD

+ 520 Caravan, start MPE
D start GW
C capital to Bapedi (this was the last time, they moved - I think I have been lucky they moved so much instead of building WoWs)
+ 540 MPE build, Caravan
+ 560 Pathetic and Spotless
B: Despotism, Hostile, 453 gold, 9 advances, 5 cities
C: Despotism, Hostile, 248 gold, 9 advances, 8 cities
D: Despotism, Hostile, 822 gold, 10 advances, 11 cities
E: Despotism, Hostile, 687 gold, 10 advances, 9 cities
F: Despotism, Hostile, 847 gold, 10 advances, 12 cities
G: Despotism, Hostile, 615 gold, 8 advances, 8 cities
advances in total, which I didn’t have: Horse, Iron, Map Making, Warrior Code, The Wheel, Masonry, Mathematics, Polytheism, Pottery
techs I would have needed: Map Making, The Wheel, Mathematics

I decided not to trade. That perhaps has been a mistake, but I didn’t have any idea, what they would demand, as everyone was hostile, and I didn’t want to give away Republic or Trade as these are techs, which I felt gives them more advantage than any of the techs they had. And I’m not experienced enough to know, which techs have to stay with me in an OCC and which ones I could give away. In GOTM 69 trading of to much techs broke my neck in the end. Beside of this, I didn’t plan to trade (Caravan-trading) for the next decades anyway. Any hints on the best way of tech-trading are very welcome!!!

+ 580 Caravan build (every three turns from now on)
+ 780 start Shakespeares
Temple sold T20 S80 L0
+ 800 Shakespeares build, continue with Caravans
+ 900 Masonry -> Construction
+ 920 start building Walls (for Aqueduct later on)
+ 960 IRB Barracks, change to Walls again
+ 1000 Barbs near OCC

Status at 1000 AD
Population: 0.36M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Republic
Cost per turn: 2; Total advances: 13; Production: 10MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, MPE, Shakespeares
Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 3 Caravans.
Batruscans: Despotism, Hostile, 651 gold, 11 advances, 8 cities
Charuvians: Monarchy, Hostile, 468 gold, 12 advances, 9 cities, Great Wall
Dorbians: Despotism, Hostile, 1502 gold, 12 advances, 18 cities, HG
Eldrakans: Republic, Hostile, 840 gold, 13 advances, 9 cities, Pyramids
Forentians: Despotism, Hostile, 1161 gold, 12 advances, 13 cities , Lighthouse
Gualathans: Hostile, 1127 gold, 10 advances, 10 cities, Oracle

 

[Peaster]

In conquest games, I am willing to give/trade away almost any tech to the AI, since they usually can't take advantage of it. Republic is fine - if they choose that government, it means better trade bonuses for me. Also, giving them Trade is no problem, since the AI rarely makes vans anyway.

I guess this is good advice for OCC too. I haven't played for that often, but I think you want the AI to have good techs, so they can research good techs, which you get from them later. Probably you'll share less as the space race begins. Dunno. Maybe somebody else should discuss OCC.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I decided not to trade. That perhaps has been a mistake, but I didn’t have any idea, what they would demand, as everyone was hostile, and I didn’t want to give away Republic or Trade as these are techs, which I felt gives them more advantage than any of the techs they had. And I’m not experienced enough to know, which techs have to stay with me in an OCC and which ones I could give away. ... Any hints on the best way of tech-trading are very welcome!!!

It was indeed a mistake but not a huge one. The only techs you do not want to give away at this stage of the game are wonder enablers for the wonders you need but have not built yet. For example, do not trade Astronomy till you are close to finishing Copernicus.

In OCC I will stop trading techs as soon as I get Flight. One reason is that Flight is on the path to Rocketry (nukes) and Space Flight, another is that it enables the rivals to build fighter planes and thus gives them far greater range and flexibility in attacking my only city. If I get into a bind and have to trade something after flight I give away Radio first.

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

1020 to 1750 AD

+ 1020 Construction -> Mathematics T0 S70 L30
+ 1040 Aqueduct build, continue Caravan, WLC-Day
+ 1060 size 9
+ 1080 size 10
+ 1100 size 11 T0 S60 L40
+ 1120 Caravan, continue Caravan; size 12 T20 S80 L0
+ 1160 Mathematics -> Astronomy
+ 1180 Caravan -> Caravan
+ 1260 Caravan -> Dipl
+ 1280 Astronomy -> Horseback Riding
+ 1300 Dipl -> Cop. Obs.
+ 1320 Cop. Obs build, continue Caravan
+ 1360 Horseback -> Wheel
+ 1380 Caravan -> Caravan
+ 1440 Caravan -> Caravan
+ The Wheel -> Engineering
T50 S50 L0
+ 1460 D completes KRC
+ 1480 F builds Sun Tzu
+ 1530 Caravan -> Colosseum (for Sewer System)
Engineering -> Sanitation
+ 1580 T20 S80 L0
+ 1590 Sanitation -> University T0 S70 L30
+ 1600 WLC Day
+ 1610 Sewersystem, continue Caravan T0 S60 L40; size 13
+ 1620 size 14
+ 1630 Caravan -> Colosseum (for University)
+ 1650 University -> Theory of Gravity
T60 S40 L0 size 17
+ 1670 RB University
+ 1680 University build, continue Caravan
+ 1700 Caravan, continue Caravan T80 S20 L0
+ 1720 Caravan, continue Caravan
Theory of Gravity -> Map Making
+ 1740 Caravan build, start Newtons T20 S80 L0
+ 1750 Isaak Newtons, continue Caravan

Status at 1750
Population: 1.53M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Republic
Cost per turn: 9; Total advances: 22; Production: 11MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, MPE, Shakespeares, Cop. Obs., Newtons
Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 1 Dipl..
Batruscans: Despotism, Hostile, 884 gold, 14 advances, 14 cities
Charuvians: Monarchy, Hostile, 753 gold, 16 advances, 9 cities, Great Wall
Dorbians: Despotism, Hostile, 1976 gold, 17 advances, 23 cities, HG, KRC
Eldrakans: Republic, Hostile, 1287 gold, 20 advances, 7 cities, Pyramids (lost 2 cities over the last 750 years !!!)
Forentians: Monarchy, Hostile, 1595 gold, 16 advances, 19 cities , Lighthouse, Sun Tzu
Gualathans: Despotism, Hostile, 1705 gold, 15 advances, 13 cities, Oracle

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

1752 to 1850 AD

+ 1752 Map Making -> Pottery
+ 1758 Pottery -> Seafaring
T0 S50 L50
+ 1760 WLC Day T0 S60 L40
+ 1762 size 18
+ 1764 Seafaring -> Navigation
+ 1766 Harbour build
+ 1768 size 20
+ 1772 Navigation -> Banking
+ 1774 size 23 T20 S80 L0
+ 1778 Banking -> Invention
+ 1782 Invention -> Warrior Code
+ 1788 T80 S20 L0
+ 1790 Warrior Code -> Iron Working
+ 1798 start Magellans
+ 1800 Magellans build
+ 1802 RB Bank
+ 1804 Bank build; Iron Working -> Physics
+ 1820 Physics -> Magnetism
+ 1834 Leos build
+ 1836 Magnetism -> Gunpowder
+ 1838 Gunpowder -> Demo
+ 1844 Demo -> Metallurgy; Democracy established
T0 S100 L0
+ 1848 Metallurgy -> Electricity

 

[Merlin_Pilgrim]

1850 to 1950 AD

+ 1851 Electricity -> Refrigeration
+ 1853 Refrigeration -> Chemistry
+ 1856 Chemistry -> Explosives
+ 1858 Explosives ->Bridge Building
+ 1860 Bridge Building -> Steam Engine
+ 1863 Steam Engine -> Economics
+ 1866 Economics -> Railroad; Supermarket build -> Granary
+ 1867 Granary build, continue Caravan
+ 1869 Railroad -> Industrialisation
+ 1873 Industrialisation -> Corporation
+ 1877 Corporation -> Electronics
+ 1878 Darwins build; Electronics -> Conscription -> Steel
+ 1879 Steel -> Refining
D builds Eiffel Tower
+ 1880 Factory build continue Vans
+ 1883 Refining -> Combustion
+ 1886 Combustion -> Automobile
+ 1890 Automobile -> Atomic Theory
+ 1891 Superhighways build
+ 1893 Atomic Theory -> Mass Production
+ 1895 Mass Production -> Nuclear Fission
+ 1896 Mass Transit build
+ 1898 Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power
+ 1901 Nuclear Power -> The Laser (Mistake: should have developed Communism and steal Knights from F)
+ 1902 E builds Mikes
+ 1903 Someone discovers Communism
+ 1905 The Laser -> Communism
+ 1906 Communism -> Espionage
+ 1907 United Nations build
+ 1908 D builds womens Suffrage
+ 1909 Espionage -> Flight (Mistake: should have gone for something else, that costs me about 240 beakers each round)
+ 1911 Flight -> Radio
+ 1912 Hoover Dam
+ 1914 Revolution
+ 1915 Change to Communism -> produce some Vet Spys
+ 1917 steal Leadership from F
+ 1918 Revolution
+ 1919 Democracy
+ 1920 Radio -> Tactics
+ 1924 Tactics -> Machine Tools
+ 1930 Machine Tools -> Miniaturization
+ 1936 Miniaturization -> Computers
+ 1937 Negotiate Peace with every other player
+ 1938 Offshore Platform build, everyone is hostile again
+ 1942 Computers -> Advanced Flight
+ 1943 Research Lab
+ 1946 Advanced Flight -> Rocketry
+ 1950 Rocketry -> Space Flight

 

[Peaster]

Looking good, MP. I don't know much about OCC, but it looks like you are almost there, and you still have 70 turns left.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I decided not to trade. That perhaps has been a mistake, but I didn’t have any idea, what they would demand, as everyone was hostile, and I didn’t want to give away Republic or Trade as these are techs, which I felt gives them more advantage than any of the techs they had. And I’m not experienced enough to know, which techs have to stay with me in an OCC and which ones I could give away. In GOTM 69 trading of to much techs broke my neck in the end. Beside of this, I didn’t plan to trade (Caravan-trading) for the next decades anyway. Any hints on the best way of tech-trading are very welcome!!!

In conquest games, I am willing to give/trade away almost any tech to the AI, since they usually can't take advantage of it. Republic is fine - if they choose that government, it means better trade bonuses for me. Also, giving them Trade is no problem, since the AI rarely makes vans anyway.

I guess this is good advice for OCC too. I haven't played for that often, but I think you want the AI to have good techs, so they can research good techs, which you get from them later. Probably you'll share less as the space race begins. Dunno. Maybe somebody else should discuss OCC.

It was indeed a mistake but not a huge one. The only techs you do not want to give away at this stage of the game are wonder enablers for the wonders you need but have not built yet. For example, do not trade Astronomy till you are close to finishing Copernicus.

In OCC I will stop trading techs as soon as I get Flight. One reason is that Flight is on the path to Rocketry (nukes) and Space Flight, another is that it enables the rivals to build fighter planes and thus gives them far greater range and flexibility in attacking my only city. If I get into a bind and have to trade something after flight I give away Radio first.

Even in OCC you should not fear giving the AI tech gifts. Republic does allow them to research a bit faster, but that should help you get other techs from them later. You want to move up the tech-tree cooperatively with the AI. It's the fastest way. Eventually they're going to get those techs, you may as well get some benefit from it. In this game, an OCC should have been able to get some very nice alliance gifts.

As Ali said, I will often, but not always, hold back the key wonder techs (Astro, medicine, T of G) if I think think they are at risk of being built ahead of me, but over time, I have become even more free with those, confident in my ability to outrace an AI to the finish. The key is if several AIs are working wonders, I am more likely to hold back as I don't want the completion of one wonder to trigger a wonder cascade to the ones I want.

Other techs I will delay giving out as long as possible, but I almost always end up giving them away too, are espionage (the most successful attacks on me in OCC have probably been diplomatic barrages) and Nuke Fission (I do NOT want Manahattan project built).

Other than that, I will give pretty much everything I've got up until combustion. I will hold back on combustion as it is a prereq for flight and I do not want them to complete it before I am ready. Unlike Ali, once I have learned it, I don't have much of a problem giving it away - I am usually not concerned with fighter planes (diplomacy can usually alleviate that). My point is that I don't want ANYONE to complete it until the last possible second. I want as many precursors to Space Flight and the SS techs as possible before Flight because it kills the Colossus which is a huge hit to the research power of the SSC. It also reduces freight payouts if I am still able to deliver goods, so it's harder to recover the beakers that way too. In general, flight sucks.

After flight, I will usually give radio, but then start slowing down gifts around Advanced flight. I don't like giving rocketry as it has the double-whammy of being a SF prereq, and it allows nukes if anyone builds Manhattan.

Even then, I will often give away most techs prior to Space Flight - especially if I really need to keep my tech costs down with the key-civ. However, once I learn Space Flight, the "Cone of Silence" descends and I do not even talk to any AI if I can help it. Once you have space flight, they will vehemently demand it and the other SS techs and turn against you quickly if you don't give it. I just do everything I can to minimize contact and I don't go near the F3 button.

Sometimes if I am really pressed for cash or if I have already launched and am confident I will win any race, I will start talking to them again and give away a couple SS techs to get some more gifts but this is rare, and a fairly recent development.


Just so this isn't completely off-topic - I'm in the 800s trying to conquer the world. I think my late start will doom my attempts to finish this in time for the deadline. I think there's just too much map left to cover in the time available.