GOTM 70 Spoiler

[Peaster]

@TheViking: I agree - those are very low casualties for such a big game as this one. Sounds like you did it by getting a wide tech lead over the AI, mainly thru trade. Getting one tech per turn, even with this research handicap, paid off nicely.

@Ali: Glad to hear you found a way to victory! You faced the toughest defenders we've heard about so far.

@Myself: It seems that my poor combat statistics resulted mainly from plain old bad luck, possibly compounded by some rash attacks.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

TheViking, your casualities are amazingly low. Your strategy of getting a wide tech gap before you attack obviously worked. I started attacking with Knights and Crusaders but not when I first discoverd the tech (actually the AI got Chivalry and I got it from them). I waited till I had a sizable empire, a small tech lead, and a decent production power. I thought about doing what you did, but I decided not to for 2 reasons.
One, the real time it takes. If it was not for Duke's gracious extension of the deadline I would have had to forgo finishing this game. Even with my massive casualties I can be done in 1870s which is 30 turns earlier than yours and my turns are taking over an hour each now.
Two, I was afraid that the tech gap would stay small while the rivals expand. In my game the Chinese were quite advaned. They got Railroad before I did.

By the way, how did you prevent tech theft? A big portion of my casualties came after the AI stole conscription.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

@Ali: Glad to hear you found a way to victory! You faced the toughest defenders we've heard about so far.

Thanks. I feel I could have done much better though. I started the game as if I am playing for spaceship even though my goal all along was conquest. Changing all those jungles in our neighborhood to grassland took a heavy toll.

I have to read your early conquest guide some day.

@Myself: It seems that my poor combat statistics resulted mainly from plain old bad luck, possibly compounded by some rash attacks.

Rash attacks sounds quite plausible. Starting 2000 years behind the AI certainly made a big difference. Of all the twists the GOTM staff have been throwing at us only two have been truly challenging: this (GOTMs 70 and 50) and the islands that went from north to south pole in the gauntlet.

 

[TheViking]

TheViking, your casualities are amazingly low.
[snip]
By the way, how did you prevent tech theft? A big portion of my casualties came after the AI stole conscription.

Regrettably I discovered that there was an error in my table of casualties (they were from a save taken a few turns before I finished). The casualties are still relatively low but not nearly as impressive as earlier:

Settlers: 2
Engineers: 3
Warriors: 1
Legions: 1
Pikemen: 1
Musketeers: 4
Riflemen: 1
Crusaders: 1
Knights: 1
Dragoons: 2
Cavalry: 2
Armor: 4
Catapult: 1
Cannon: 1
Artillery: 1
Howitzer: 1
Stealth Fighter: 1 (a deliberate kamikaze attack)
Destroyer: 2
Cruiser: 2
Battleship: 1
Diplomat: 3
Spies: 3
Freight: 1

The AI stole very few techs from me. There are probably three main reasons:

(1) Early on I captured mainly a few relatively isolated cities. For cities that were not totally isolated I kept an eye out for approaching enemy units and killed many diplomats.
(2) I placed veteran spies in cities in/near enemy territory (military operations were very limited in scope until some time after I discovered espionage). For example I bought a single city deep within the Chinese empire because of a wonder. This was a lot of fun, the Chinese managed to steal only a single tech (plastics) and lost a *huge* number of knights, crusaders and catapults attacking the city (it was on a river square, had city walls and was defended with rifle men at first and alpine troops later on ). I also killed several approaching diplomats and the spies prevented several tech theft/sabotage attempts. Also later on the Greeks stole a tech or two but this was just before I destroyed them so they got no time to give them to someone else .
(3) Late in the game I attacked with overwhelming force so the AI had no time to reorganize itself in response to the abruptly changing situation. Also I carefully selected where/when to build road/railroad, build/occupy fortresses and when to capture cities. I often capture cities in groups of about 5 instead of capturing a single city. This makes it more difficult for the AI to steal techs and/or counterattack.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Finally done. I hope they're still accepting.

If I read his log correctly I think I stole Peaster's green star by a turn or two: Conquest in 1550AD. There's no way I beat him on a GOTM score, because I don't think I had as many cities and I never went to republic, let alone democracy so there was no population explosion at the end.

I'm tired and I'm catching something so I feel like crap. I'll try to come back with more details later.


Edit to add: I think final casualties were 1 phalanx and 25 crusaders.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Amazing result, Tim. Glad you got to finish.

I played till 1874 this morning. Spanish were destroyed a turn or two ago; Mongols are down to 1 city which I can bribe at any moment. My cities are growing in population and new cities are being built in undeveloped areas. My engineers, who number near 100 now, are super busy. I can keep growing my empire and my GOTM score for at least another 30 turns but turns are taking over an hour, I am tired, and there are limits to Duke's graciousness. I shall finish tonight when I get back home.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

A few of the dates may be off a little bit. I tried to stick to the important information, but added in info on when troops and colonists were first launched to certain locales, since that seems to be of interest to folks.

For the most part, F/Carth/China was mostly taken by troops built in the colonies there. C/Zulu/India was taken by troops from the island cities, plus the indian colonies. Australia provided the troops that took G/Mongol/S. america. Troops from the india campaign (and subsequently built india troops) went to the B/russians/Africa and both the China forces and S. american forces converged on D/Spanish/N. America. The S. american and African forces continued toward E/Chinese/Europe, along with a supply of new troops from N. Africa, india, and the home islands.

As with most of my conquest games, the strategy was mostly take the capital, then bribe most of the rest. but that had to be put aside against the D's because (1) their capital (around Chicago) was too far from where my forces were coming from and (2) I didn't have enough cash.

2000-Split up
1900-Berlin founded near whale
1850-Leipzig founded near 2nd whale
1250-Monarchy/Instant Revolution
1100-Hamburg founded at E. tip of island
950-map making
800-First boat complete - 2 settlers head out
775-Konigsburg founded on NE corner of australia
675-Frankfurt founded on islands to the west
600-Trade
525-Come to the conclusion that someone has removed most of the arable land from eastern australia compared to the standard Earth map. Nice touch
400-Writing
- - Munich founded on hill in E. australia to reach special. City square being mined.
350-first vans
300-van
275-4th van
- - Heidelburg founded further west on "Whale Islands"
250-Marco Polo
- - spend cash down below 50g so I'm not asked for money until I get the first gift.
- - Everyone is hostile. Assume that is by design
- - Get alliances with just a few gifts to each. Alliance with all but F's (war with C's who I had already talked to)
- - Net Pottery, mysticism, Horseback riding, 250g, all maps.
- - Interesting in that in several cases when I asked for alliance I was required to offer up a tech I had already just gifted.
- - Cash from Alliance and max tax rate used to rush vans very quickly
175-Nuremburg founded along river in S. australia
150-start completing vans again
100-Get notice D's about to build HG as the last van is completed. (plan to move vans to 4 special island are scratched. Have to disband last van because I can't move out and back into city and scrape together the last 25 shields
75-Hanging Gardens
50-Colossus (D's) and Pyramids (E's) built
- - Cologne founded in west islands
- - 8 turn Alliance timeout is about to end. Spend treasury to get power rating as low as possible
25-Resume begging
AD 1-Hannover founded further west along islands (city #10)
20-Bremen founded (SE australia)
120-Stuttgart founded along E australia
180-Philosophy + Monotheism
200-2 goods vans sent towards china - around this time 2 settlers head toward india
220-2 settlers build colonies in SE china - I give them the creative names "China 1" and "China 2" (They were sent out around ad 80)
- - Dortmund(15) founded in S. australia
- - Hit supreme. Gifts slow down.
240-Lighthouse
300-drop to mighty for a while - nab a few more gifts
- - diplomat and settler start heading toward S. America to gain a foothold there.
320-Madras founded
340-Calcutta founded
- - Our first crusaders are already on their way to india
360-make first 2 deliveries to Sparta/F/china
380-Auckland founded in N.Z.
400-Fs develop Feudalism. We are not pleased.
- - crusader and dip start sailing to china
420-China 3 founded as spawn of first china colonies
- - Christchurch(20) founded in N.Z.
- - the NZ cities were almost exclusively shipbuilders to help get units from Australia to S. America
- - start seeing happiness issues - start making some warriors
440-China 4 founded by spawn of first china colonies
480-Cs build GL
- - E's change to GW (in their capital, of course), prompting us to pursue that somewhat aggressively, as letting someone build it would completely screw things up.
- - Start surveying S. american coast.
500-Crusaders start sailing from australia to S. america
520-India and China colonies start producing their own crusaders.
580-D's lose saragossa (near US west coast) to barbs. Shortly we send a couple dips there in hopes of bribing it cheap for an initial outpost.
600-Michaelangelo's Chapel - eases happiness. We start disbanding warriors where they present a support issue.
620-Start demanding tribute now that troops are on the ground. F's give 350, D's give 200, C's cancel alliance when I don't give them a tech.
640-C's declare war when we ask for tribute.
- - First C city captured
- - continued tribute
- - settler heads out to claim suez canal
660-The Gs built a city that blocks our access to a key special. Because I was angry, we immediately subvert it before it even gets a defender. If I'd thought about it, I probably should have waited until I got a unit out of the deal as well.
- - C's make an offer I can't refuse: They offer 300g for cease fire, I accept as it buys time to position for the next attacks.
680-Machu Pichu founded in Andes to give S. American Port.
- - Not surprisingly the Gs cancel our alliance (but all my troops are close to my new cities)
- - start trying to end remaining alliances because of troop recall concerns. Surprisingly E's give in to gift requests even though we are supreme. D's cancel immediately.
720-F's finally declare war in response to tribute request. Hey look we're positioned right outside their capital!
- - Athens captured. Two more cities incited.
- - C's resume war. Capital is Razed. Incite city with Great Library
- - we again sign cease fire to regroup as we are low on cash and not positioned to continue attacks.
740-G's moving in on our subverted city - we ask them to leave, they declare War - we kill the intruders
- - Pop exceeds 1million
- - need to slow rushbuys while treasury rebuilt.
760-Shanghai founded along china coast with settler gained during city revolt
780-Capture G city of kashgar located on W. Chilean coast. This is a much better positioned base for S. American operations.
- - about this time I realize I should have planned more trade to head out ahead of troops. Treasury is really constraining my ability to RB and incite revolts.
800-Settlers head out to africa to form colonies
- - revolt in another F city
- - Give B's several worthless techs to exchange maps since my intel is very dated. Get some tribute from them too.
840-bribe a small F town.
860-cross mountains to attack Samarkand along Argentina coast. Lose a few crusaders but capture the city at size 1 w/ barracks. This becomes our new base of operations in S. america.
- - C's finally resume war again. Capture a C city by force
880-Last C city is razed - C's destroyed.
- - Exploring crusader dies attacking last F town (piker/river). Send a dip instead.
900-deliver a gems van to NE africa
920-Revolt in last F city - F's destroyed. The scourge of Feudalism is removed from the planet, but the B's are researching it. India force goes to Africa instead of Europe next because of this.
- - Dips have finally reached N. america and bribe Barb city of Saragossa. The only remaining defender was the barb leader (dip) and the city is surrounded by yellow troops. I barely made it in time. City is renamed "Oregon" so I can remember where it is.
- - Suez founded
960-New Zimbob founded on site of razed C capital (West coast of india) to produce more boats.
1000-Deliver van to Karakorum
- - E's continue to give substantial gifts even though they are below us. They remain worshipful. :shrug:
1020-Barbs approach home island - some rushes done since our cities are very poorly defended (There have been other barb activities, but this was among the most threatening)
- - Raze G city of Ormuz (Southern end of argentina) to shore up backside of Samarkand
1040-Tribute from Ds gifts from E's continue
- - Subvert B city of sebastapol - appears to be the only B city north of Suez - b's (and their feudalism, if the learn it) are confined to africa.
- - Boost science up to 70% to finish tech before next deliveries
1060-Barbs finally land on home island. Good thing I didn't clear jungle as they are sitting ducks. Bribe the barb trireme
- - Subvert D city of Oviedo S. of Oregon. Rename it San Jose.
1080-Africa 1 colony founded
1100-Damn! B's develop Feudalism.
- - Deliver 2 vans to Karakorum for over 600g, then attack and capture the city. Revolt another G city
- - Astoria (mouth of columbia river) founded as main gateway to N. America from china.
- - I finally get around to mining the hill on the home island. There just always seemed to be a better use for settlers.
1120-Africa 2 colony founded
- - settler built in basra to head up to central america
- - Revolt in 2 more G cities. One (in disorder) nets more in plunder than it cost to incite revolt. (The G's were flush with cash)
1140-Navigation
- - Troops start arriving in Astoria from china.
- - Revolt in another G city
1180-B's declare war. Tblisi razed.
- - we are again painfully short on funds. Can't rushbuy as treasury is being rebuilt to incite cities.
1200-Revolt in last G city - G's destroyed.
- - Pyongyang founded to build more ships and aid sailing from china to N. America
1220-Guatemala Canal founded (What can I say, I liked the defense bonus from the hills, and it was more direct than panama.)
- - Moscow captured - piker killed a unit or two. Incite revolts in 2 B cities along Nile
- - B's offer 150 of their 153g treasury for cease fire. We accept as that makes them cheaper, and we are short on funds anyway.
- - Es are back to worshipful. They just refuse to get angry.
1240-Magellan
- - We keep moving in on D city of Salamanca (Eastern Washington), but they won't declare war.
1280-We decide to forego Reputation and break treaties with both Bs and Ds. Incite revolt in B town along southern nile.
- - Kill D units in Washington and Louisiana.
1300-Deliver vans up the mississippi to Leon for ~400g, then capture the town, Capture Salamanca.
- - Baton Rouge founded
1320-Revolt in Last B town, B civilization destroyed. Feudalism gone again.
1340-Ds develop Feudalism.
- - Barbs approach completely undefended Aussie cities. Vet Trireme (and people put Lighthouse in their worst wonder category???) happens to be nearby, so it sinks the boat - 5 barb units killed
- - Bucharest founded, finally giving us a foothold in Europe. Now that troop withdrawl is no longer an issue, I start bugging them again. However they are back in the gift-giving mood.
- - Take toledo which is already defended by a piker. Bribe another small D town defeneded by only a warrior. Doh!
1380-Continue attack up the mississippi, and and it's tributaries - take 2 more D cities. D's offer 300g for cease fire. We take it and immediately break the truce. Empty a city in florida, but can't take it.
- - E's finally cancel alliance. Probably because my rep is now in the toilet.
- - Make my first internal trade delivery
1400-re-empty florida city, capture it, take cities near Minneapolis and Denver, raze one near Edmonton
- - Troops coming up from africa spot yellow units in Iberian peninsula (how ironic). Kill them to keep them from making contact with Es and giving them feudalism
1420-Finally able to capture D capital of Madrid (Chicago) Bribe another D town around Tennessee
- - Time to cross N. america makes Chinese troops useless. Most China cities switch to Van production
1440-Deliver a couple vans to Es while troops are still assembling
- - Capture a B city along Carolina coast
1460-Now that I'm delivering some vans, I realize Leo's is in reach (to get consistently bigger faster ships in my chains) Hire a bunch of einsteins in larger cities to complete engineering (a sort of half-assed attempt at Xinning.) Realize now, I should have stolen the Wheel a long tmie ago and gone for this earlier
- - Capture D town near detroit.
1480-Revolt in D town near rio grande
- - Position camels, dips, and crusaders for multiple efforts next turn
1500-Pirates sail toward undefended moscow, threatening oracle. (Not that I'm using it as I have no temples. I just don't want to lose the points.) Rush defender in Moscow and dips in nearby African cities, just in case.
- - Deliver 3 vans to cordoba for minimal payouts (despite colossus), Deliver 2 more in Europe for nearly 700g
- - Cordoba is not cheap, so we take it by force. Take 2 remaining D cities (1 by force, one by dip)
- - D civilization Destroyed
- - Start European offensive taking one city up river from Bucharest, and taking one in france by troops that came up from w. coast of africa.
- - Switch Xinning over to tax collectors to boost bribery funds (and wonder purchases) if needed.

Status at +1500 (after turn is done)
Population: 5.99M; Cities: 80; Trade routes: 31D4F; Government: Monarchy
Treasury: 1968g; Cost per turn: 18; Total advances: 26; Production: 329MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: HG, MPE, LH, Mike's, GL(captured), GW, Oracle(captured), Magellan, Colossus (Captured)
Units: Settlers-0; Warrior-1; Phalanx-26; Archer-9; Pikemen-9; Horse-1; Elephant-1; Crusaders-72; Trireme-36; Caravel 29; Dip-16; Caravan:11
Power Supreme (Despicable)
Bs: Eliminated
Cs: Eliminated
Ds: Eliminated
Es: 10 cities, 22 techs (Uncooperative, War) Pyramids
Fs: Eliminated
Gs: Eliminated

1510-Pirates reach shore, but do not disembark at moscow, allowing defender to finish building
- - Invention
1520-Position for capture of Beijing (E capital)
- - Put china vans into Leo. Disband a bunch of crusaders toward an unneeded wonder in N. america since those troops will never make it anywhere useful in time.
1530-Barbs die attacking moscow.
- - Leonardo's Workshop, King Richards Crusade.
- - Deliver 2 vans up river to Nanking (Belgium?) and one that made it's way to the front of the ship chain from S. america to Beijing for about 850g total
- - Capture E capital of Beijing (River, walls, phalanxes) losing a couple units. Several units sail across black sea from bucharest to capture 1 city, Dip runs up river from there to bribe one more, and another dip bribes another city just inland from there. Dip which came across from former F city in asia bribes the farthest NE city. Nanking captured by dip up the river that the Camels used. Dip from S. america lands at beijing and moves on to incite another nearby city. In total, 2 cities taken by force, 5 by dips.
1540-Capture one E city as S. american troops start arriving (better late than never), Bribe one more (near moscow, I think) and position dip to take last city next turn.
- - Disband 20 crusaders and boats just arriving in beijing from the americas toward score pumping Statue of Liberty. Disband several more units in N. america for Copernicus (have to buy the last few shields there)
- - End Xinning since we've got plenty of cash. Focus on getting cities as happy as possible - luxuries to 70%
1550-Copernicus' Observatory, Statue of Liberty
- - Check happiness again.
- - Bribe Hangchow in N. russian woods.
- - E civilization destroyed.

Edit to add: Ali-style status for +1500
Further edits to add a couple things I missed.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Thanks for the log, Tim.

525-Come to the conclusion that someone has removed most of the arable land from eastern australia compared to the standard Earth map. Nice touch

I too found that disappointing. I tried to settle there early on and was dismayed by all the plains, forests, jungles and no grasslands.

Another annoying thing about this map, which does not exist in any other world map, is that both North America and Siberia touch the north pole. I had a ship full of offensive units that I wanted to send from east Asia to Europe when I discovered that the passage is blocked.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I submitted earlier this morning. I ended up playing a few more turns and ended in 1879. I built all the wonders except Manhattan, and Apollo due to lack of the needed tech. Nuclear Fission could have been achieved in another couple of turns but Space flight was long away as I did not even have flight yet.

I spent the last few turns building up happiness and building new cities. Right before taking the last Mongol city I had 216 cities over 20 of which were built just to get rid of Engineers (due to poor planing I still had 34 engineers left). This is a personal record for me. The most number of cities I had ever built prior to this was 206 in GOTM55.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Here's an attempt at some comparative analysis. This is of course somewhat slanted by my own perspective of my game. I realize the logs are a bit spotty, but I'd be curious to hear comments from an impartial observer.

I tried to go through the logs and compare my game to peaster's since he also went for early conquest. Even though I finished a few turns ahead of him, I think his is more impressive given the circumstances. It certainly sounds like he will blow me away on GOTM score with several dozen more cities, plus late game celebration growth... and that was without getting HG. If I hadn't gotten the gardens, I probably would have quit in frustration before I ever finished. As it was, happiness was really bothering me late in the game - I can't imagine not having that first happy citizen.

My emphasis is mostly on the early game, since, once we get a ways into it, each game takes its own path in response to the earlier differences. Also, keep in mind that these are being analyzed with the benefit of hindsight. I certainly did not see the potential advantages of many of these choices at the time they were made. For example, I always slow my settler/city building for wonders and troops because I simply can't manage a game that gets too many cities. In a couple cases I think that worked to my advantage in this game whereas most of the time it might not.

1) Early research
Both got Monarchy at same time (actually, he got it a turn earlier, but I slowed my research down to hit the oedo year), but I got to Trade a little earlier.I don't think this is that important, because we both took several more turns to get MPE done, but I think this is indicative of Peaster doing a better job working sheild squares like mining the central hill (and thus, how he gets settlers out so fast) while I had my 3rd town built on grass and working ocean. It's the OCC'er in me. I love that early trade.

2) Building MPE- I was a earlier by 5-6 turns.
While I did learn trade a little earlier, I don't think that was the real reason for the difference. It seems like peaster got several more settlers/cities out during this time frame (at -125 he had 13 cities to my 8). When I hit trade, 4 of my 5 cities went straight to camel production, I'm not sure if that was the case for peaster. I think because we got the late start and it was a real wonder race, this is one of those rare cases where going for the wonder at the expense of all else paid off. In a normal game, these wonders are not usually in question and more emphasis on settlers would have been the more efficient approach.

3) Alliances
I used MPE to not only get techs and maps, but also I went for alliances even though I knew I was playing for conquest. It was a big map and we started behind, so I knew I would not be in conquest mode right away. Also, because we got a late start, I was still fairly low on the power ratings so I figured I could milk some cash out of the deal before getting too big. This might not have been the case in a normal start - by the time MPE is built, usually an EC civ is already climbing near the top of the power rankings. The alliances allowed me enough cash to get HG done. It also covered up some of my poorer play (not sending enough caravans out for deliveries) for several centuries by allowing some gold to keep flowing in.

4) Hanging Gardens - it's already been mentioned several times and it's by far the biggest difference in our games. Not only did I get to MPE just a little sooner, and got gold out of my alliances to build HG, but I also had the good fortune of it being built a few turns later in my game. I didn't get the message that it was about to be completed by the AI until -100. If the message had come in -150 like it did for peaster, I wouldn't have been able to build it; those 2 turns made all the difference.

5) City Expansion vs. Early Offensive
Judging by the number of cities, Peaster keeps pumping out settlers along with his forces. When I hit monotheism, I went almost exclusively to building ships and units and a few settlers for planned colonies. I stopped expansion and went into conquest mode and was fighting in earnest on 3 fronts by the +700s. I think getting a little bit earlier start on some of my conquests helped in that I probably faced a few less walls and such. However his continued expansion is probably what eventually helps him catch up with me as he has a bigger base to draw upon for units, vans, gold, etc.

6) Trade
Peaster says he's making many deliveries in the early AD years. Another big boost where he starts catching up. I had to slow down not only my dilomats' inciting activity, but also my rushbuys on more than one occasion because I was low on funds.

7) Tech emphasis - peaster seems to keep emphasising technology growth more than I did (probably mostly because of the trade deliveries). I basically shut down research after monotheism. I slowly worked my way to navigation, but that was with science at 20% (because a 20/10 split of sci and lux gives more gold at 70% due to rounding) It wasn't until very late in the game (too late to really matter) that I realized getting invention for Leo's would really help because my ship chains would become fully caravels instead of limited to 5 moves and 2 units because I had so many triremes still out there. I would have needed Theology/Bach to even consider conquest in republic, and I was a ways away from that.

8) Dumb luck - He lost twice as many units as me. That's just bad luck. If it weren't for this, he probably would have been able to completely overcome the early disadvantages and get done faster anyway. Much like I said about getting HG: had I lost that many units, I probably just wouldn't have even tried to finish the game knowing I had already gotten a late start in the month.

 

[Peaster]

Nice game and log, Tim. That was the game I wanted to play!

I agree with your analysis, too. In hindsight, there was not time to research many useful techs after monotheism, but I guess it wasn't very costly for me, since most of the beakers came from trade anyway.