GOTM 90 (Hatty) - First Spoiler

[neilmeister]

GOTM 90 First Spoiler

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM90, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD.

Where did you settle?
How is Deity going?

 

[PattonTwo]

Ha, first...that is also a first.

I didn't expect to do well in this and took the easiest starting map but in 1 AD I'm farther along than I expected and better off than any deity/immortal game I've played. Clearly the early UU made a huge difference (for me) in being able to have any war before 1 AD.

7 cities (4 captured) and about 30 total population.

I managed to get into an early war with Spain (around 1200 bc I think) and was able to take 4 cities. I might have taken the capital but Bismark DOWed me by surprise and I gave Spain peace to defend my western border.

The "war" with Bismark was basically him pillaging a few of my resources and me killing his units when he did so. Finally around 300 or so BC I was protected enough to launch my attacks but he ended up finding Iron somewhere and spearmen started appearing. So I settled for pillaging everything around Berlin and Munich (settled to the SW of Berlin).

At this point he has Cats and I'm finally about 7 turns from Construction so I gave him peace to get my act together. he will have to invest a lot of time in rebuilding the lands I pillaged and hopefully when he's done I'll be able to pull off a war and take those cities. Then I'll turn back to Spain and try to finish her off.

The research/income problem has been extreme and if it weren't for the pillaging cash I would have been BK. The income/expansion problem has put my tech at zero and I'm starting to fall behind. I was somehow able to build TGL somehow in 75 BC (I assumed it would have gone earlier) so I have some hope to keep close on tech but we will see.

 

[undead]

I took the contender save.

I settled in place and built a worker. Researched AH.

I made some big mistakes. After improving the pig tile, I was disappointed by the result, until I noticed that I had built a farm... I researched pottery before bronze working. I almost died from the barbs, and had to recapture a city.

I settled the cities very close from each other. Probably not a bad thing, but deciding which city would have which resource took some time. One of Bismarck's cities was a bit irritating.

Bismarck had a stack stationed near my borders but didn't DOW. In similar games he attacked from the other side of the map very early. I was lucky I guess.

At 1000BC, I had 4 cities (all settled), 11 pop, 2 workers, 4 units (3WC), 16 techs, 1gold, +4gpt at 16bpt, 6GPpt, 1 lib, 2gra, 1 worked cottage.

I built as many chariots as I could. Asoka was my target. Bismarck was pleased with me and not with Asoka. At 650BC Asoka was in WHEOOHRN mode and attacked Napoleon at 600BC. I adopted the same religion as Isabel and Bismarck.

At 525BC Bismarck is pleased with Asoka. I DOW Asoka anyway. First small city captured on the same turn.

At 475BC, I have 18WC waiting to go for the next city at once (limit support cost), removing a forest.

At 375BC, 18 WC against Madras. 4 defenders, +50%. City captured with 11WC (5 retreated).

At 225BC, Bismarck attacks! I can't complain. He had been waiting for so long. The game is over anyway. I try some more turns.

At 200BC 1 city lost to Bismarck. I attack Bombay with 13WC: 5 defenders, 60%. 8WC were used (4 retreated). Peace treaty with Asoka.

I realize that I can make Isabel attack Bismarck for Construction and some gold. Maybe I could have made her attack him before he attacked me... After trading construction for currency with Napoleon, I notice that I can't bribe Isabel into war anymore! (construction has less value?)

At 175BC, Isabel accepts and DOWs Bismarck!

No incredible stack of Bismarck's appeared and, at some point I could recapture my small city. It contains now a monolith.

100BC: Bismarck is pillaging his own cottages because they are in my borders.

At 500BC I capture an ex-barb city of Bismarck.

At 1AD, I have 8 cities, 42 pop, 3 workers, 3 archers, 15WC, 4 spearmen, 1 cat. 20 techs (no CoL yet), 1gpt at 5bpt, global production: 43 hammers per turn.

My plan is to spam more WC at Bismarck, maybe switching to cats at some point. Asoka is annoyed and might attack, so WC's speed might help. Anyway, it was surprising to get to this point.

 

[lymond]

I'm up to 400BC in my first session (all the map has been scouted).

I settled on the PH to the SE. Not too bad of a spot, especially with the wheat-if not least for extra health. The downside with the iron that would have been in the BFC, and now due to a city I settled on the PH in the NW(with FPs) and a Biz city to the west of the lake, that iron cannot be part of any BFC, but it is mine.

Anyway, I settled and went AH>Mining>POT>BW (or BW/Pot..forget). I had every intent of getting WCs out as fast as possible and harrass some AIs. I did, but I tell you on Deity it only gets you so far.

I first Dow'd Biz and took a city to the North (sugar/cow/fps). It was on a hill and it hurt, so my progress stalled. I did go in and pillage a lot of stuff and killed a few Archers and a chariot or two. Biz was absolutely spamming Archers like mad before i even declared which was pretty early. I tried luring, but it seems they don't move their units around as much.

Meanwhile, I setup to hit Izzy's city to the NE in the jungle. It turned out to be her Hindu holy city. I made a big mistake though and razed the city. It took forever to grow to size two, and for some reason I thought she had whipped the city. Not the case. Buh-bye holy city and my fourth city. Biz ended up settling the area soon after.

Moved up to Madrid area, but Izzy had some metal online so it was no go. Around this time I sent some WC's toward Asoka. He had settled the copper/dye city to the east. 2 archers and it went to me with no losses. Killed a few more of his units (Swords and Axes..all wins for me) and then made peace for some techs. (I was first to Alpha but at this point my economy is pretty shot)

I left Nappy alone and made some trades like IW. Eventually Asoka came around and OB'd with me. He's now at cautious. Biz and Iz are mortal enemies though and I'll likely never get on their good side.

Unfortunately, the only religion that has spread to me is Christianity, which no one has adopted. Religion spread always seem so slow on Deity.

Took several Barb cities in the area - East and West. So at 400BC I have like 8 or 9 cities and have just limped my way to Currency. I only built 1 settler I think.

Not really sure what to do at this point. I'm not too bad on tech wise in comparison to the AI at this point, but my economy is still not great. Probably just go military. Heading toward Construction now for cat spam.

 

[FiveRings]

I have never played Lakes, still don't play at Deity, and this one was a disaster. I moved the settler as I thought I am hearing tidal sounds - seems on Lakes this is the sound around a lake, too, and settled the PH to the SE, turned out to be a horse tile but allowed both Bis and Isa to sandwich me with the tundre on the other side. Isa settled a close city to the NE, I stole her worker planning to take it, but it never grew to L2, besides turning into Juda founder. Killed quite a few Spanish archers, but couldn't accomplish my goals, so went for peace. Settled three cities and conquered Angle to the East, but around 50 AD I am in a hole - too far behind the AIs in land, crop, GNP. I give up.
Perhaps, I should have settled in place, and should have attacked Bis, who didn't have copper and horses for a long time. Or should have raised Seville despite its being a holy city and continued to conquer Isabelle's bigger cities.

 

[Falabello]

- Warrior 1NW: lot of jungles
- Settler 2S1E (hills): pigs, gems and wheat. Yes, it’ll be here !
- My Warrior scouted the surroundings to find horses in the area (after AH)
- Nice surprise: two horses in excellent positions !
- In Capital city: 1 Worker, 1 Warrior and bunch of War Chariots…
- Stole 1 Worker from Asoka and 1 from Bismarck
- Lost the Asoka Worker and the Warrior to a Barb Archer (running from Asoka)…
- Animal Husbandry / Mining / Bronze Working / Pottery / Writing…
- The War against Bismarck: Munich (2400 BC) – Hamburg (1840 BC) – Cologne (1640 BC).
- When I finally saw the German Capital, it had around ten Archers. So I had to regroup and increase my troops.

Thenceforth, my game was ruined . My initial plane was to get some lands from Bismarck because proximity and stole some Workers from distant Empires. When my Warrior arrived between Asoka and Isabella, there was 1 Worker of each Empire working the surroundings. Steal from Isa would be total madness, so the choice was Indian. But the result was my downfall. I lost the Worker, lost the Warrior (to a Barb) and still got a neverending war. I thought that because of the distance Asoka wouldn’t retaliate… pure illusion … After that, he didn’t stop sending little troops to my cities in the East. I had to concentrate my forces to defend the cities. At the same time, Bismarck, noticing the situation, did the same from North. He retook Hamburg and also began to send small troops.

So, the game lost all the fun. With so many continuous and incessant fighters, my production was only Axes and War Chariots (I still hadn’t Archery). And the worst is the Deity AI’s continued to expand at the same time they didn’t stop the war.

To get worse and worse what was already bad, it happen the expected: Isabella joined the war (or the party), with Longbows and Elephants (with a little luck they were still few). In 1 AD I was still alive, with 4 cities, but with no chance in the game .

Some considerations in stealing Workers in the beginning of the game: it seems to me that this is not working anymore as it should. To steal from Germany: on the one hand, I got velocity to connect and spam horses; by the other hand, the Empire produces twice as many Archers while in war (although I tried several times to make peace). To steal from Asoka: even more distant he didn’t make peace and send continuous troops (in this case I lost my Warrior and the Worker). In both cases it was hoist by its own petard :suicide:… I remember that in GOTM 89, several players told that this idea didn’t work well. In my own GOTM 89 game, I stole the Worker and an unusual situation happened: one enemy Archer begun to follow me. My Warrior crossed the entire continent till the other side of Pangaea followed by the Archer and died in the last tile . The Empire (I didn’t remember witch) didn’t make peace and sent some fighters to disturb me. Returning to this game I still had the care to reread the text Slave Economy from Tachy to observe that Asoka and Bismarck were less dangerous in unit courage. By the other hand, an excerpt of this same text: “Enslavement of workers, being the bed-rock of this type of war economy, is a risk/reward type of economy. If proceeded perfunctorily, an advantage may turns against you and makes you game falls. Of course, worker stealing, along the spectrum of difficulty levels, are easier the lower the level, but a badly done slave economy is an efficiency killer. And one wants to maximize the reward over the risk to make the strategy viable, otherwise this strategy worths peanuts. This present knowledge was acquired via many years of experience and testings .”

I also don't know if there's some difference among the versions of the game . Maybe I’ll make my rule to steal Workers till Monarchy or Emperor …

 

[Solyaris]

@ falabello, I generally don't like to steal workers. The upside is huge, I admit, but it can easily destroy your game and the permanent -1 towards against many AI's and -3 against the affected AI usually are not worth it.

My own game has gonne pretty good. The initial worrier move didn't reveal anything special, and since I had a strong feeling some horses would pop up in the BFC I saw no reason to move settler and thus I SIP. As always started to build a worker while scouting, carefully, the surroundings. Quickly decided a 2 city war-chariot rush wound be the best, as the map didn't offer many good spots before getting boxed in. My 2nd city was settled on the PH to the north, close to the cows and flood-plains (and Bismark). Attacked Asoka and took 2 of his western cities, eventually had to settle for peace as he got like 10 archers in the capitol. Since I was now totally boxed in, I had to keep fighting somebody to not be too far behind on cities/prod/gold. Luckily Asoka, for some unknown reason, removed most of his troops from the capitol and thus layed to road open for my chariots. Took the capitol and Dehli, but found no other city of value so settled for peace. Researched alphabet, traded it around, bulbed optics, traded it around and also settled 2 other helper cities + captured 1 decent barbarian city for a total of 9 cities. At 1 AD I have around 60 pop, all the 4 C'techs + monarchy, pretty decent size army (and growing). Probably going for Isabela next as she seems to be the most dangerous AI in terms of tech/land. Have monopoly on construction, and will keep it that way until somebody else gets it