GOTM Difficulty Levels

[ngraner42]

I am curious what GOTM players think are the reasonable difficulty levels and what they would prefer for GOTM competition.

Should GOTM go up to Immortal or even Deity level. After playing my first complete game at Emperor for GOTM9, I am definitely ready for a break and would be happy to go back down to Warlord. I think cycling between Warlord and Emperor works well. The lower levels give a playable game for new people and the opportunity for the experienced to win big. Of course I would play Immortal next month if that was what is up, but I do not think it would be fun. I got tired of starting Emperor games in preparation for GOTM9 and dread practicing at Immortal.

Are the levels above Emperor winnable under normal conditions or do you need a favorable start or luck? I see with Civ3 GOTM they ramp the difficulty up to Deity level with no complaint. Is it worse for Civ4? What do the top players think, is Emperor a piece of cake?

 

[LordKestrel]

I'm far from a "top player", but I'd prefer keeping the difficulty in the middle of the spectrum. I'd say go no higher than Emperor, and Warlord is probably a good low end.

 

[Thrallia]

I'd be perfectly fine moving from Warlord up to Emperor as a cycle...I certainly wouldn't be able to compete above Emperor, although that wouldn't discourage me from trying. Warlord would give all the new players who've been posting that they're trying out the GOTM a chance to catch up again...although I don't think that this is a likely scenario, I'm expecting either a Prince or Monarch game next month.

 

[Mutineer]

Any start on Emperor (proven to me by me) and may be immortal (I am not 100% sure) is winnable. You actially will get more and more poor start by standart map generator as dificulty going up.

 

[Lawrence]

No more Warlord games, please!

Gameplay in Warlord games is too much different from other games (such as getting Education from Oracle), after playing a couple of Warlord games, I always needed a lot of time re-adjusting to higher difficulties. I would like to see a Noble to Emperor ladder, possibly with a few immortal games.

 

[cas]

Just a guess, but I think the GOTM 10 will be immortal and they will run a WOTM (Warlords) on the 15th starting at a lower difficulty...so the two run converse. Similar to Civ3 GOTM / COTM.

Personally, I think they should run Prince -> Deity cycle. I'm Monarch/Emporer at best...and will get trashed on Immortal+ ...but I'll learn in the process. Anyone who bothers to read the information on this site should win noble diff 99% of the time.

GOTM staff can do whatever they want. I'll still play.

cas

 

[Thrallia]

Anyone who bothers to read the information on this site should win noble diff 99% of the time.

that sounds somewhat rude...I myself don't win Noble difficulty every time, yet I might know as much or more about Civ4 than you do.

Besides, not everyone enjoys Civ by reading strategies from the site and just using them without thinking up their own stuff...I've learned the game well, and then just do my own 'strategies' which may or may not be as good as the ones posted on civfanatics...but they're a heck of a lot more fun to me, cause I'm the one playing the game, not someone else.

example: the CS slingshot...a lot of people love it, and used well it could possibly win the game for you. But I don't like using it, I build the Oracle generally just because I'm a builder by nature and try to build almost any wonder I can.

as far as the difficulty level though, I'm not opposed to Warlord(indeed, when I played the warlord start on my own, I got my first win before the 1800s in Civ4), and it would help all the newest players get into it easier, but I agree that Noble is a more likely lowest level, from what we've seen of player reaction to warlord level games. As for going above Emperor...I'm sure we will eventually, but I highly doubt it will be very often or soon...especially given what I've seen in the final spoiler thread.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I think GOTM should certainly go up to Immortal. I wouldn't mind Deity, but I think the extreme tactics that are necessary at that level would put a lot of people off. In Civ3, you could play Deity just like any other level, just carefully. In Civ4, you really have to play it very differently.

I don't think GOTM should go below Noble. Warlord just seems absurd. If Noble is too hard you can always take the Adventurer handicap, too!

If "practicing" is no fun, then don't do that! It's always seemed silly to me. If you don't practice, maybe you'll lose. So what?

 

[Obormot]

We had plenty of those easy games already, but not a single immortal game, not even talking about deity, which I think is unfair.

And warlord level is just ridiculous.

 

[Airny]

I think we should start with prince, altough I have a hard time on emperor.
Like mentioned above, there is still the adventurer-modus with which everyone who plays GOTM to get better should win.
Please don't make a warlords-level-game.

 

[BLubmuz]

Perhaps most of us are under influence of GotM9

Moderator Action: You obviously are. It's still in progress! Rest of your post deleted. No discussions of games in progress is allowed outside the spoilers.

 

[KingdomBrunel]

Just keep the GOTM out of step with the upcoming WOTM. Then everyone can play close to the level they'd choose to play. I don't think we need minimum or max levels; it can be fun to storm through a Warlord level game, and an experience at one of the highest levels.

Now I just need to find the time to play...

 

[whb]

The Warlord-level games do not seem to generate all that much interest; neither really do the Noble ones.

Perhaps Noble is needed as a base to lure new entrants (being the "fair AI" level), but at Warlord I suspect we would deter more people out of a percieved lack of in-game challenge.

 

[cas]

that sounds somewhat rude...I myself don't win Noble difficulty every time, yet I might know as much or more about Civ4 than you do.

Besides, not everyone enjoys Civ by reading strategies from the site and just using them without thinking up their own stuff...

The information on this site includes more than just a few 'CS slingshot' standard tricks. If you read and understand the basic game mechanics, AI tendencies, different economy types, etc... noble is not much of a challenge beyond a couple of practice games. Also, there are tons of players who "know more" than me...which only reinforces my point that noble is too easy for a GOTM competition. If you choose to play odd variants which lead to a loss on noble, enjoy! But even a average player (like me) can win noble 99% of the time with little effort using any number of strategies.

As I said before...GOTM staff can do whatever they want. If Noble is the low-end of the spectrum to get new players involved, that's ok too.

cas

 

[bio_hazard]

I'd definitely vote for keeping Noble, and possibly even Warlord. From my Civ3 GOTM experience, I'm confident the staff can come up with interesting starts and maps that can make lower levels entertaining for experienced players. If lower difficulty levels are so easy for the masters out there, then the game should be quick, and you can move on to something else. And as I recall, they give out the same number of medals, so its still a competition!

I'm coming in from the mac side of things, so we're just getting used to the game now. We won't have the Warlords expansion for months, so just a request not to make all the regular GOTM's super hard while all the WGOTMs are easier.

I certainly think a mix of difficulties is more than fair, but as I'm still trying to win my first Prince game I'll be sitting out anything Emperor and above for the near future...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Just keep the GOTM out of step with the upcoming WOTM. Then everyone can play close to the level they'd choose to play. I don't think we need minimum or max levels; it can be fun to storm through a Warlord level game, and an experience at one of the highest levels.

Now I just need to find the time to play...

Not everyone can, only the people who've actually bought warlords and can get it working on their system.

 

[DaviddesJ]

If lower difficulty levels are so easy for the masters out there, then the game should be quick, and you can move on to something else.

This is not at all true. If you're trying to get the best possible result, I think it's actually more work at lower levels than at higher levels. And a lot less fun.

 

[Ozbenno]

How about having a variant-type game if the difficulty goes down to Warlord, something like Always War.

 

[bio_hazard]

@daviddesj- Interesting, so it might be even harder to get a medal on a low level than a high level (but require more MM)?

btw- my comment came from cas's comment that even average players could win on Noble without much effort.

So for good players, is GOTM only fun if there's a good chance of losing the game?

 

[ewokimpi]

As a Prince level player, I'd like to see the competion vary in difficulty from Prince level up to Emperor. I find I can often win at one level higher than I play my private games, and can compete at least somewhat at one level higher than that. Winning keeps me coming back to the GOTMs, and being able to compete convinces me that maybe I can learn to play this game well someday.

Stepping back from the personal, I think three different needs can be balanced.

Firstly, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Being whomped on by the AI consistently is not fun. Steamrolling the AIs on Warlord level also is not (as much!) fun.

Secondly, the group as a whole can be brought along in skill level. This requires setting up games that present an appropriate level of challenge to the mid and lower levels of the player pool. They will be higher in difficulty than these players might choose on their own, but also include an advantage or two that compensate for lower skill levels. I believe this has been done successfully by the GOTM designers.

Thirdly, keep the good players interested! We can visit the higher difficulty levels to draw the good players into competition. This benefits the entire player pool, as the rest of us dolts (speaking for myself) learn from reading their posts and downloading their saves. And they get to have fun too!

In passing, I note that 122 submissions have been made for GOTM9 so far (8pm EDST 8/24). That seems a little low to me, but AlanH and Ainwood will know for sure. Maybe time to go back to Monarch? Then up to the lofty regions again?