GOTM too low difficulty

As another recent addition to the GOTM ranks, starting with COTM01, it seems to me that most of your current target market is comfortable in the monarchy to emperor range. The GOTM forum seems to be an excellent way to improve your game playing skills, because you can compare your game with the elite, and see how they dealt with the same issues you will undoubtedly face. So GOTM is not about sticking to your comfort level!

I played and lost COTM03, and submitted it - you still get GPR after all. I would like to think that I should not have lost, but the opportunity to have another crack seems to have been a long time coming. I have beaten conquests deity before, and actually prefer the challenge of a game where it is not a given that the human will be victorious. Typically in my mind anything from emperor or below is pretty much a given that the human will prevail.

I understand and aceept the argument that while playing in GOTM part of the challenge is the competition against other human participants. This is after all much of the fun of it, and it gives meaning to a regent level game. These days I would no longer set up a regent level game to play solo, but the required tactics to try to be fastest finisher in a given victory type give that game, as part of GOTM, interest.

So where I am hesded with this? Well I think that there should be as many demi-god/deity games as there are regent level games, This would balance the curve from the slightly too easy (regent) and the slightly too hard for the majority of players. This would mean there would need to be more of the DG/Deity level games on the recent past selection.

I would also prefer to see the level of difficulty reflected in the GPR once again, especially if the COTM and the GOTM are to be counter-cylical. There is no question in my mind that scores will be stretched more on higher levels, and scoring well on a high level is a better indicator of a good player than doing well on a regent level game. At the moment there is a definite risk that only the easier game will end up being counted in the GPR. My suggestion - having not really thought too far down this track yet - why not add an additional scaling factor to the GPR so that regent games are out of 100, monarch 105, emperor 110, DG 115, deity 120, with the same ageing charcteristics as applied now?

Anyway that is my 2c.
 
I think a variety is best. I would say the best mix would be 2 Monarch, 2 Emperor, 1 Regent and 1 DG/Deity over a six month period. The lower difficulties provide a chance to try new techniques under less fatal circumstances. The higher give a chance to show mastery of those techniques.

I agree that spliting the difficulty between the GOTM & COTM games each month unbalances the GPR. Taking the lower of two equal difficulty games makes some sense. Selecting the highest score between different difficulties gives more weight to the lower difficulty as it is more likely to be higher for a less skilled player.
 
I vote for dvandenberg's distribution of levels, but I think the GPR should stay as it is - it's a comparison of players' relative scores; it shouldn't matter what levels the games are.
 
Hi all,

Did I hear a call for input from people new to the game/forum? Sure, I can oblige.

First a brief CV to attest to my noobness. I used to play Civ a fair bit but for some reason missed Civ2 and SMAC. I just bought Civ3 and C3C a few weeks ago and am well hooked again. I played a couple of games on the lowest level and discontinued them towards the end of the AA when I was clearly on top. I have read most of the War Academy as well as an assortment of forum threads and game discussions. I then toyed with a couple of regent games before getting properly stuck in with COTM5, my first on this site.

I won COTM5 (Conquest division) by a domination victory in 1690, but given a similar game again know I would do much better. I wouldn't say it was overly convincing, because the turn after I won the Japanese jumped me with a couple of rather large SoDs that would have knocked me back a peg or two before I mustered my efforts against them.

While I understand most of what I read on this site, remembering which applies to Vanilla, PTW or C3C, and indeed applying the methods I've read is something that will only come with practice, mistakes, and analysing the approach to the same games by the elites. But I'm waffling again (hmm, kinda like my playing style...I really should push towards my goal/point with more focus!) ;)

To start moving towards something resembling a point, personally it worked out very well for my entry to be at that level, I probably would have been ok at Monarch too (admittedly it was pangaea too which made it a little easier still), but Emperor+ would have been beyond me at that stage.

I think if you do your research on this site and try to apply the lessons learned, then Regent or even Monarch is a good place to start. I personally believe it would be quite viable to not have any games below Monarch, but that's assuming other new players are willing to study first.

Butz. groucho

P.S. Read on if you're bored, but I'm going off on even more of tangent from here...

I'm looking forward to trying my hand at Emperor in the next game, and if I lose, so be it, I'll still submit. I had some practice with the lux slider in the last game and know it will be vital from here out.

I made a random Emperor game playing England with the same world params as the next GOTM last night. First try I was in a bad location and upon finding everyone found I had about 2/3 less cities than anyone else, was last in tech and boxed in. I restarted and had a nicer starting location, but after mostly consolidating my island (defeating the Germans), again I'm last in tech with not much to offer anyone, and although my military is average size, and my pop is decent, I'm not really sure where to go from this point. Archipelago's require a change of approach I haven't mastered yet, so I can tell I at least will be very challenged in the next GOTM. I'll stop now. :)
 
Like I said before I'd love to see a high difficulty COTM once in a while.
IMHO the key thing is to remember that players have vastly different comfort levels, so the most important thing is to have a good variation in the difficulty levels of the COTM.
I therefor like to second (or third, whatever ;) ) dvandenberg's suggestion variation in levels, with the slight change that I'd prefer one less regent and an extra emperor level game each six months (so, 1 regent, 2 monarch, 2 emperor, 1 demi/deity/sid :evil: level games every half year).
 
Darkness said:
I therefor like to second (or third, whatever ;) ) dvandenberg's suggestion variation in levels, with the slight change that I'd prefer one less regent and an extra emperor level game each six months (so, 1 regent, 2 monarch, 2 emperor, 1 demi/deity/sid :evil: level games every half year).
Yes I think dvandenberg's suggestion would be about right - no sid though for reasons discussed elsewhere in this forum.
 
My 2c:

COTM5 (Regent) was the most boring of the COTM's I've done, by far. The AI was incredibly weak, so it just turned into a competition of "how fast can you get your troops to Japan and Carthage" which isn't really what playing Civ is about to me.

COTM3 (DemiGod) was the most fun COTM I've had, even though I lost. I was doing pretty badly in the Middle Ages, made a good comback in the Industrial Age, conquering the Dutch, and during the Modern Times I was fighting like crazy to stop the Ottomans and the Persians from completing their Space Ships (but eventually the Ottomans proved too strong).

So personally, I am all for harder games. DemiGod is what feels most fun to me, because at that level it's a 50-50 question if I win or lose against the AI. At least, I hope the "average" difficulty of the COTM's would be increased a notch, from Monarch to Emperor. The results of COTM4 and from what I've read in the spoilers for COTM5, tells me that the skill of the average COTM player is increasing all the time. I hope the difficulty will increase a little in conjunction with this.

-- Roland
 
ainwood said:
Well, by cycling regent-monarch-emperor-deity(Demigod)-emperor-monarch-regent, we seem to have dvandenberg suggestion anyway. But: Do we extend it to Warlord?

Even i havent yet submitted my games, because i usually lose interest once i'm certain of my victory and i'll abandon the game and move on to the next; but i still play most of the COTM's and would like to see a deity level one soon :goodjob:

Warlord one would be extremely boring for more experienced players. Maybe launch a 'offical practise' game in such low difficulty now and then, so people who havent yet mastered the basics of civ, can train a bit on some great map you guys make.
 
ainwood said:
Well, by cycling regent-monarch-emperor-deity(Demigod)-emperor-monarch-regent, we seem to have dvandenberg suggestion anyway.
As long as the second regent is actually the start of the next cycle, not part of the first cycle so that there is only one regent per 6 months, and the existing COTM cycle that we have just done missed the emperor slots, but yes, that cycle would work.
ainwood said:
But: Do we extend it to Warlord?
I would rather go to Sid, I think, and I don't really want to go there...
 
ainwood said:
Well, by cycling regent-monarch-emperor-deity(Demigod)-emperor-monarch-regent, we seem to have dvandenberg suggestion anyway. But: Do we extend it to Warlord?

Warlord is a bad idea IMHO. This would be boring, and make the game one long milk run (which is fun for the HoF, but not here)...
I'm all for attracting new players, but the games should also be challenging for COTM regulars, I think...

Regarding your cycle:
COTM1 - regent
COTM2 - monarch
COTM3 - demigod
COTM4 - monarch
COTM5 - regent

This suggests COTM6 and 7 are both emperor level games....
:D
 
Or to put it another way, every 3 months we would have
1 monarch, 1 emperor, one "something different".

The "something different" could be regent, demigod, or deity (though I know I would strugle on the last) and it would make sense to alternate going high and low.
 
From a New xOTM'er:

As far as I can see we have 24 xOTM games per year. Chieftan, Warlord, Regent, Monarch, Emporer, Deity, SID (on COTM) to choose from. I also agree that warlord is probably out. Although the Idea of a Chieftan/Warlord practice game has its merits for the new players but I agree not to have it in actual competition. I do however like the idea of keeping a couple of Regent games available per year (I would have been less likely to start playing myself had it not been for the recent Regent game)
-------GOTM------COTM
Jan----Regent----Demigod
Feb----Deity-----Monarch
Mar---Monarch---Emporer
Apr----Emporer---Regent
May----Deity-----Monarch
Jun---Monarch---Demigod
Jul----Emporer----Monarch
Aug----Regent-----SID
Sep----Deity------Regent
Nov---Monarch---Emporer
Dec---Emporer---Demigod

There are so many ways you could flip this around that it should not be very difficult to make everyone happy. I even like the idea of having one month Say October be "Hell Month" and have a Sid game and Deity in the same month.

After all of that I guess I could have made the post much shorter by saying that I think it's fine the way it is. :goodjob:
 
dvandenberg said:
I don't think either warlord or sid belong. Too easy or too hard. Some of the comments made about SID the last time this topic came up make it seem very unattrative, iirc.
I just spent 15 min unsuccessfully looking for the thread to which you refer. Could you please either summarize the reasons against SID or provide a link to the thread. Sid level frightens me, but I still would be interested in the discussion.

Thanks in Advance
 
jeffelammar said:
I just spent 15 min unsuccessfully looking for the thread to which you refer. Could you please either summarize the reasons against SID or provide a link to the thread. Sid level frightens me, but I still would be interested in the discussion.

Thanks in Advance
Sorry. I don't remeber which thread it was either. I think it was a couple of months ago. I can't find it. Maybe someone else can remember. It was a discussion similar to this one.
 
Well, when discussing Sid, I went to the guru (our technical consultant, and an 'OK' player ;)), Aeson.

His view from his playing is that Sid is simply too random - in short, in the early game, a 'bad' RNG and the AI simply decides to smoke you, and that's the game over and done with. Not a very meaningful way to compare strategies between different players, because only the very good ones will have any chance, and even the very good ones have a chance of being wiped-out early on through no real fault of their own.
 
ainwood said:
His view from his playing is that Sid is simply too random - in short, in the early game, a 'bad' RNG and the AI simply decides to smoke you, and that's the game over and done with. Not a very meaningful way to compare strategies between different players, because only the very good ones will have any chance, and even the very good ones have a chance of being wiped-out early on through no real fault of their own.

Nice and succinct Ainwood. Thanks for the explanation.
 
IMHO the maps should vary a bit more... IIRC for the last half a year or so the maps have been standard, with one large map.

I moght be wrong, though, but I still would like to see some small map games, too, they're lighter and I'm not too much into big maps..

Meaning that I don't care so much on the level, but map sizes could vary a bit..

My humble apoligies if I'm wrong.
 
ainwood said:
in short, in the early game, a 'bad' RNG and the AI simply decides to smoke you, and that's the game over and done with. Not a very meaningful way to compare strategies between different players, because only the very good ones will have any chance, and even the very good ones have a chance of being wiped-out early on through no real fault of their own.

Sure, this is a problem with a random generated map. Game is over when powerful AI will declare war on you. And when it will declare a war on you is controlled by RNG.

However, in GOTM a lot of things can be done to reduce AI strength and to enhance human position. If all AI civs will be placed on small islands with limited resources and human civ is placed on a rich island along letting human to develop, things may look different. Yet it will be interesting ,original and unusual.
I may be wrong, but I suspect that such game on SID level can be designed.

Sure, it will require a lot of work from Ainwood in editing map and starting positions and calibrating everything to make it balanced. But this could be used only for a single unusual game.
 
Back
Top Bottom